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Pet Mod SS OU Theorymon (Completed)
- Thread starter Ardy
- Start date
PS! decided for me (I was so undecided)
Archeops, Obstagoon
SS OU theorymons needs YOU to vote for archeops and mudsdale
Alright! Votings up!
Mudsdale: 21
Archeops: 16
Obstagoon: 17
Jolteon: 0
With that, Mudsdale and Obstagoon (woop woop) will be added to the metagame! Given how many votes Archeops revieved, it will probably be put back on another slate soon.
Time for a new slate!
+ Magic Guard
Dragon/Steel + Iron Head
Fire/Grass + Strength Sap + Apple Acid
+ Slack Off
Pure Psychic Type + Unaware
As always, there will be around 5 days of discussion before voting. What do you think of this slate? Let us know!
Mudsdale: 21
Archeops: 16
Obstagoon: 17
Jolteon: 0
With that, Mudsdale and Obstagoon (woop woop) will be added to the metagame! Given how many votes Archeops revieved, it will probably be put back on another slate soon.
Time for a new slate!
+ Magic Guard Dragon/Steel + Iron Head Fire/Grass + Strength Sap + Apple Acid + Slack Off Pure Psychic Type + UnawareAs always, there will be around 5 days of discussion before voting. What do you think of this slate? Let us know!
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first impressions. might be missing stuff
Boooo MBounce cooler. But seriously, Magic Guard is an amazingly good ability, particularly on a mon that's weak to SR. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I see it having enough of an impact to catapult a mon into OU that just... doesn't have the toolset to be viable? Like, I can of course see it on stall, but I'm really not sure it would see use otherwise.
I guess? Like, it definitely improves the mon, I'm just not sure if this is the way I'd want to see it taken. Neutral on this one.
Very interesting sub. Fire/Grass in Sun is a powerful combo; one strong enough to possibly give it a leg up on Torkoal. I don't really see it using Leech Seed, but NP sets appreciate the extra coverage provided by its new STAB.
Not sure if it does what it was intended to, but it does check Zarude, and that's pretty cool. Too bad it still gets bullied by every Fairy or Fighting type under the sun.
blessed sub, no bias here :)
but seriously, this becomes the single bulkiest Unaware mon, and with its SR weakness removed, it has the option to hold items other than boots. It has tons of utility in moves like Teleport and Sticky Web, as well as reliable recovery with Recover. Honestly, its only downsides are its slight passivity (which can be made up for with sets like CM + Stored Power) and the fact that pure Psychic isn't a very good defensive type. Still obviously has a niche, on stall as well as possibly other teams (lookin at you, Webs HO), and I would love to see this get in.
personally leaning towards Ninetales and Orbeetle.
Boooo MBounce cooler. But seriously, Magic Guard is an amazingly good ability, particularly on a mon that's weak to SR. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I see it having enough of an impact to catapult a mon into OU that just... doesn't have the toolset to be viable? Like, I can of course see it on stall, but I'm really not sure it would see use otherwise. I guess? Like, it definitely improves the mon, I'm just not sure if this is the way I'd want to see it taken. Neutral on this one. Very interesting sub. Fire/Grass in Sun is a powerful combo; one strong enough to possibly give it a leg up on Torkoal. I don't really see it using Leech Seed, but NP sets appreciate the extra coverage provided by its new STAB. Not sure if it does what it was intended to, but it does check Zarude, and that's pretty cool. Too bad it still gets bullied by every Fairy or Fighting type under the sun. blessed sub, no bias here :)but seriously, this becomes the single bulkiest Unaware mon, and with its SR weakness removed, it has the option to hold items other than boots. It has tons of utility in moves like Teleport and Sticky Web, as well as reliable recovery with Recover. Honestly, its only downsides are its slight passivity (which can be made up for with sets like CM + Stored Power) and the fact that pure Psychic isn't a very good defensive type. Still obviously has a niche, on stall as well as possibly other teams (lookin at you, Webs HO), and I would love to see this get in.
personally leaning towards Ninetales and Orbeetle.
Supposed to be a unique mixed wall that can threaten most pokemon with knock + toxic and force progress that way. Yes it gets abused by every fighting and fairy but I am not creating "unstoppable juggernaut that 6-0s teams from preview," even then they cant switch in either unless ur called clef who can just have heavy slam teched vs it
OOOOH magic guard, interesting to see how this can work as I believe it can be a pretty cool heatran, clef, corv, skarm, ferro, and a counter to most passive mons and use them for setup with CM + recover. Esp with bulk investment I can see this being an absolute juggernaut when it comes to dismantling stall teams as haze pex would not want to switch in while quag gets smacked by repeated hurricanes. Steel dragon DD'er, interesting to see how this does as it can now set up and threaten out clef while compromising a fighting, ground, and fire neutrality in return which makes it worse at dealing with tran, lando-t, and tank chomp. But the opporunities of set up against every tapu and good anti-fairy stab. These 2 would be my pick as I believe they are great unique additions to the meta
Hmmm… it is certainly an improvement but it’s also been put straight into the path of Alakazam. Which is faster, more powerful and has a better movepool. Garticuno is bulkier though, and has U-turn, so it might still have a niche? Personally I would’ve given it No Guard and Aura Sphere.
Oh yes, please. It now cleaves through the bulky Fairies that once walled it. I think a set of SD with Iron Head, Scale Shot and Earthquake would be best, as it can double as both a sweeper and a wall breaker.
Another interesting choice. Fire / Grass it a typing we haven’t seen yet, I don’t think it will use Apple Acid too much since it already has Solar Beam, but it is a safer move to throw out. It’s a good Leech Seed user as no Grass type is switching in. Yeah big improvement.
I can see what you were going for here, it’s a nice counter to Heatran and could be a pain for stall once Clefable is down, but its stats are just too wonky for it to be effective IMO. Wish + Regenerator would’ve been a better buff IMO.
Yes Orbeetle is actually good now. As Beaf Cultist said it’s the bulkiest Unaware mon, and I think it could fit on both offensive and defensive teams alike. It could set webs for HO as it’s the bulkiest Web setter bar Shuckle (which is horrendous), and it can safely bring in its teammates with U-turn. It could also run a Calm Mind + Stored Power set.
Wowzers this is a good slate.
If you gave this Heat Wave, I'd be so happy. Outside of that, its probably on par with Sigilyph - it has the stats but has a horrible movepool. My good fellow mentions Corviknight, but that thing just clicks U-turn into the Weavike, Dragapult or Zeraora you have in the background. Stall carries Chansey, and that just clicks Seismic Toss, and you can't stall that out. Absolutely no Steel coverage truly kills the hype for me.
This is an interesting choice. Dragon/Steel gives this several switchin opportunities, and being ablento set up and force out the Fairies that annoy it in the past. The new Ground weakness sucks hard, and makes Scarfers easier to revenge kill it, but I think this is overall a good buff. Coverage is probably Swords Dance Scale Shot Iron Head Close Combat / Earthquake.
I respect the idea behind this, but this imo is not a buff to OU. It still has many of the same key problems in standard, and my general thoughts on this is more or less the same as Beaf 's views on Haxorus.l
My only issue is that Dark/Dragon is a shoddy defensive typing, and yes, the Fairy thing sucks, but it just has a lot of key weaknesses, and a Dark type that can't check the likes of Dragapult is not very interesting to built with. If this got an additional defensive ability or a better typing I'd be 100% sold. That being said, as is it is a niche defensive pivot that could prove strong on certain builds.
Decent stallmon, but I think that 1) It's usefulness outside of stall is being vastly overhyped, as this thing adds zero defensive utility to BO or Balance teams while being rather passive. If I wanted to run a bulky CM sweeper I'd go with Reuniclus, at least that sets up on walls. 2) It's not bringing up the viability of Webs. Give it a rest. 3) Bulk is being heavily overhyped. It's defense is near exactly like Quagsire, and SpD is just a bit higher than Clef, so it trades having a worse typing and utility for just a bit higher all around bulk. A stall expert will have to break down if that exchange is worth it, as defensive stall synergy works a bit different than balance which I am more familiar with, but honestly, sans Haxorus I think this is the best Pokemon at what it wants to be, as an addition to Stall.
So I'd go Haxorus and I am currently weighing between Orbeetle and Guzzlord. The subs are improving but I think they are slightly missing the mark to make them great.
If you gave this Heat Wave, I'd be so happy. Outside of that, its probably on par with Sigilyph - it has the stats but has a horrible movepool. My good fellow mentions Corviknight, but that thing just clicks U-turn into the Weavike, Dragapult or Zeraora you have in the background. Stall carries Chansey, and that just clicks Seismic Toss, and you can't stall that out. Absolutely no Steel coverage truly kills the hype for me. This is an interesting choice. Dragon/Steel gives this several switchin opportunities, and being ablento set up and force out the Fairies that annoy it in the past. The new Ground weakness sucks hard, and makes Scarfers easier to revenge kill it, but I think this is overall a good buff. Coverage is probably Swords Dance Scale Shot Iron Head Close Combat / Earthquake. I respect the idea behind this, but this imo is not a buff to OU. It still has many of the same key problems in standard, and my general thoughts on this is more or less the same as Beaf 's views on Haxorus.l My only issue is that Dark/Dragon is a shoddy defensive typing, and yes, the Fairy thing sucks, but it just has a lot of key weaknesses, and a Dark type that can't check the likes of Dragapult is not very interesting to built with. If this got an additional defensive ability or a better typing I'd be 100% sold. That being said, as is it is a niche defensive pivot that could prove strong on certain builds. Decent stallmon, but I think that 1) It's usefulness outside of stall is being vastly overhyped, as this thing adds zero defensive utility to BO or Balance teams while being rather passive. If I wanted to run a bulky CM sweeper I'd go with Reuniclus, at least that sets up on walls. 2) It's not bringing up the viability of Webs. Give it a rest. 3) Bulk is being heavily overhyped. It's defense is near exactly like Quagsire, and SpD is just a bit higher than Clef, so it trades having a worse typing and utility for just a bit higher all around bulk. A stall expert will have to break down if that exchange is worth it, as defensive stall synergy works a bit different than balance which I am more familiar with, but honestly, sans Haxorus I think this is the best Pokemon at what it wants to be, as an addition to Stall.So I'd go Haxorus and I am currently weighing between Orbeetle and Guzzlord. The subs are improving but I think they are slightly missing the mark to make them great.
Being my submission, I want to clarify that Magic Guard Articuno-G is not supposed to be a wallbreaker. It's obviously a lot worse at doing that than something like Tapu Lele or Alakazam. The idea of it is supposed to be a stallbreaking win condition that sets up on defensive Pokemon, like Clefable and Reuniclus can. What differentiates Articuno is that it has actual speed, so the generally poor matchup of other options against much more common offensive structures is reduced with it. Its decent bulk and Magic Guard give it setup opportunities on a number of common Pokemon like Toxapex, Slowbro, Galarian Slowking, Landorus-T, and Tornadus-T. You beat Blissey and Chansey with Psyshock.
I've designed it with an intended sample set like this:
Articuno-Galar @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Hurricane
- Recover
It's true that it doesn't get any Steel-coverage, but does it need it? It can set up on and overpower Ferrothorn and Corviknight, as well as non-Taunt Heatran. It loses to Melmetal, Swords Dance Scizor, and Magnezone, but there need to be some switch-ins to it, and Psychic/Flying moves hit nearly everything else neutrally.
I considered additional boosts, but Magic Guard is a pretty big buff on its own. Look at Clefable, which only has 95/73/90 bulk and has been one of the most important Pokemon in the metagame since XY (and before that in DPP). Alakazam was RU in Generation 5 before it got its Dream World ability.
Finally, I believe that this would be beneficial to the metagame as it limits a number of potentially problematic defensive threats for some teams, like Ferrothorn and Tornadus-T, and it is close to an actual Galarian Slowking switch-in.
I've designed it with an intended sample set like this:
Articuno-Galar @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Hurricane
- Recover
It's true that it doesn't get any Steel-coverage, but does it need it? It can set up on and overpower Ferrothorn and Corviknight, as well as non-Taunt Heatran. It loses to Melmetal, Swords Dance Scizor, and Magnezone, but there need to be some switch-ins to it, and Psychic/Flying moves hit nearly everything else neutrally.
I considered additional boosts, but Magic Guard is a pretty big buff on its own. Look at Clefable, which only has 95/73/90 bulk and has been one of the most important Pokemon in the metagame since XY (and before that in DPP). Alakazam was RU in Generation 5 before it got its Dream World ability.
Finally, I believe that this would be beneficial to the metagame as it limits a number of potentially problematic defensive threats for some teams, like Ferrothorn and Tornadus-T, and it is close to an actual Galarian Slowking switch-in.
Galarian Articuno would be a fantastic Future Sight support pivot, greatly appreciating not having to run Heavy Duty Boots and run a boosting item like Life Orb, letting it launch of its powerful attacks. Offensive teams would also appreciate the higher power compared to the SlowTwins. STAB Hurricane OHKOes Zarude and dents Weavile as well, which are by far the most common Dark-types. Now the immediate reaction would just be “why not use Lele instead.” It also has other key advantages over Tapu Lele; U-turn and Recover. U-turn lets Galarian Articuno pivot out against Heatran and Corviknight without worrying about having coverage to dispatch them. Recover also lets it stick around can works fantastically with Magic Guard, outlasting lasting many stall teams
I would definitely like to see a Colbur Berry Future Sight set as that would be the set that can put in the most work. I would definitely like to see this soon.
While Steel makes Haxorus a better Fairy killer, it’s also a double-edged sword for Haxorus. Landorus-T and Air Balloon Heatran become much more difficult to play around and its choices for coverage doesn't help it. Neutral on this.
Fire/Grass is a really solid offensive typing, and Ninetales already has a surprising amount of Grass-type moves already like Solar Beam and Energy Ball so that's a plus. SubSeed sets are also quite interesting since only Clefable can block it effectively. However, OU already has TONS of Fire-types that wall its coverage. Moreover, it’s a Fire-type that can’t check Fire-type at all, so I’m on the fence.
Fantastic Zarude and Heatran counter that can have a niche on fat teams. Not that much of a change but it’s good.
I have no real thoughts on this so i'll leave my opinion up to others.
Honestly I'm all in for Ninetales and Haxorus. Ninetales with a grass typing and decent recovery is very cool, and Dragon-Steel is just an absurd defensive and offensive typing. Y'all are forgetting that Dragon-Steel only gets truly walled by Steel, which Haxorus can take care of with either Earthquake, Close Combat or even Magnezone.
Got bored so I figured I might as well post my thoughts on these.
Like G-Luke said, this needs a movepool buff before you could really consider it usable imo. The defensive typing is bad and the competition it has with Reuniclus, who already isn't that good in SS, makes me unconvinced this will be worth it.
This is probably the best sub of these 5. Not only is this a solid offensive buff for Haxorus, giving it valuable STAB against Fairy-types and a way to avoid having to abuse Scale Shot all the time for its SD sets, but it's also a decent defensive buff for a fairly frail mon that also opens up some new ways of checking it, such as Body Press Skarmory / Corviknight to make up for its much better matchup against usual Dragon resists. I wouldn't expect this to become meta, though.
I don't really like this submission flavour wise, but even without looking into that, this submission still fails to address the major issues that Ninetales faces as an offensive threat. The majority of dragons & fires have great matchups vs this, and its good but not excellent Speed tier leaves it pretty easily picked off by metagame staples like Weavile.
If Hydreigon can't pull it off, this definitely can't. Would stay unviable due to being easily chipped by the mons it tries to beat / 0 utility provided otherwise
I hate Unaware usually, but not only do I feel like this is an underpowered submission, I also feel like Clefable already takes the roles this is trying to go for anyway? Orbeetle doesn't have many support moves of its own, lacking critical moves like Aromatherapy, Knock Off and Stealth Rock, and is only very marginally bulkier than Clefable due to its low HP stat.
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Orbeetle: 111-132 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- 50.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Like G-Luke said, this needs a movepool buff before you could really consider it usable imo. The defensive typing is bad and the competition it has with Reuniclus, who already isn't that good in SS, makes me unconvinced this will be worth it. This is probably the best sub of these 5. Not only is this a solid offensive buff for Haxorus, giving it valuable STAB against Fairy-types and a way to avoid having to abuse Scale Shot all the time for its SD sets, but it's also a decent defensive buff for a fairly frail mon that also opens up some new ways of checking it, such as Body Press Skarmory / Corviknight to make up for its much better matchup against usual Dragon resists. I wouldn't expect this to become meta, though. I don't really like this submission flavour wise, but even without looking into that, this submission still fails to address the major issues that Ninetales faces as an offensive threat. The majority of dragons & fires have great matchups vs this, and its good but not excellent Speed tier leaves it pretty easily picked off by metagame staples like Weavile. If Hydreigon can't pull it off, this definitely can't. Would stay unviable due to being easily chipped by the mons it tries to beat / 0 utility provided otherwise I hate Unaware usually, but not only do I feel like this is an underpowered submission, I also feel like Clefable already takes the roles this is trying to go for anyway? Orbeetle doesn't have many support moves of its own, lacking critical moves like Aromatherapy, Knock Off and Stealth Rock, and is only very marginally bulkier than Clefable due to its low HP stat.252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Orbeetle: 111-132 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- 50.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
A couple of announcements!
1) I dont think we actually posted about it in the thread, but we discussed this in depth on discord, and Zarude has been given a -10 attack nerf.
2) After the voting for this slate is done, we will be holding a room tour to see how these changes shape up the meta! The format of the tour is undecided (but probably double elimination) and if that is something you'd be interested in, please head over and sign up on our discord server!
1) I dont think we actually posted about it in the thread, but we discussed this in depth on discord, and Zarude has been given a -10 attack nerf.
2) After the voting for this slate is done, we will be holding a room tour to see how these changes shape up the meta! The format of the tour is undecided (but probably double elimination) and if that is something you'd be interested in, please head over and sign up on our discord server!
: good sub, this would do good, but still feels underwhelming, no coverage, meh to bad offensive type, but yeah, definitely an improvement: this is what haxorus should've been, definitely voting for this. (also, i thought this already learned Iron Head lol): This is PERFECT. thats it thats my review: nah, only this? no stat buff? no fur coat, nothing? this will not be used, its still bad even with reliable recovery.: meh, hot take here: it should keep the bug type for the resistances it brings.
Here's to hoping next slate has mons that are already kinda viable cuz like of most these buffs are taking PU mons and raising them to like a RU power level. OU C-tier is free real estate, guys!
With that said Haxorus is by far my favorite. It already has a niche as an unaware-immune walmart garchomp and this buff helps it to further be a clefable murder machine, all the while granting it additional set-up opportunities thanks to a ton of new resistances/neutrality coupled to a toxic immunity. Very much still an HO mon but definitely a usable one.
Gatricuno would be fun if it wasnt such a steel fodder. This would be my second choice but I think I'll refract from voting just in case it can ever get a second, more viable shot later. Everything else is just kinda bad sorry :(
With that said Haxorus
is by far my favorite. It already has a niche as an unaware-immune walmart garchomp and this buff helps it to further be a clefable murder machine, all the while granting it additional set-up opportunities thanks to a ton of new resistances/neutrality coupled to a toxic immunity. Very much still an HO mon but definitely a usable one.Gatricuno
would be fun if it wasnt such a steel fodder. This would be my second choice but I think I'll refract from voting just in case it can ever get a second, more viable shot later. Everything else is just kinda bad sorry :(
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Easily the worst set of subs so far tbh. Hax is the only decent one, the rest are bad but I think I’m voting Guzz second because it’s the only other sub that at least feels like it would be unique enough to have a niche.