Resource SS PU Viability Rankings [pre-October]

[Akir]

art by lyd ​

Most of you know the drill by now, but if you don't: viability rankings are a method of sorting Pokemon in a given tier based on how good they are in said tier. S rank is reserved for the defining Pokemon of the tier, while D rank is the place for near unviable Pokemon that have almost no worthwhile use in the metagame. As the metagame changes, the rankings are periodically updated by players who are well-versed in the tier. Note that ranks are currently done alphabetically and not by viability, this may change like it did last gen.

Do not post one-liners in this thread. Unless it is an exceptional sentence that is able to justify or explain something in a few words, one-liners rarely contribute anything of value to a thread. For NFEs not already included in the viability rankings (or even already included): put the effort into actually investigating its uses in the metagame and providing substantial FACTS and REPLAYS to prove your point before you post. Opinions contribute very little to the discussion if they do not have something to back them up, nor do posts that look at a single point and ignore everything else that has been said. When arguing for a Pokemon's ranking, account for opposition, and do not attempt to ignore the drawbacks of a Pokemon either.
If nominating an unranked Pokemon to be ranked, it is highly recommended that you get feedback from the PU room and/or Discord beforehand to make sure that there is a concrete reason that said Pokemon deserves to be ranked.

For this thread, remember this: it is not on the community to do the research and debating for your proposed change. If you want something to rise, drop, or be added, please do the work to gather the evidence. And if you made a nomination that didn't go through, it didn't get ignored, and feel free to ask for reasonings by VM'ing a mod, or asking in the SQSA or PU discord chat (but please do not ask in this thread). Also contact a mod if you find a small error (Pokemon being out of alphabetical order, etc.) rather than posting in the thread about it.

PU does not use rank descriptions like some other tiers do. Each Pokemon in a rank should just be seen as above or under Pokemon in other ranks rather than needing to fit a certain set of criteria.

PU Viability Rankings- LAST UPDATE PRE-OCTOBER TIER SHIFT

S Rank

Galarian Rapidash
Stunfisk
Throh


A Rank

A+

Appletun
Drifblim
Galarian Mr. Mime
Gourgeist-Small
Morpeko
Mr. Rime
Sandslash
Unfezant

A

Alolan Dugtrio
Dusknoir
Golduck
Gourgeist-Super
Liepard
Lilligant
Lurantis
Silvally-Rock
Tangela
Type: Null

A-

Beheeyem
Boltund
Crustle
Drednaw
Falinks
Flareon
Hattrem
Heatmor
Hitmonchan
Kadabra
Leafeon
Mawile
Silvally-Ice
Raboot
Roselia


B Rank

B+

Dubwool
Fraxure
Glaceon
Lickilicky
Lycanroc-Midnight
Manectric
Mareanie
Marowak
Musharna
Pawniard
Pinsir
Swoobat

B

Lapras
Ludicolo
Luxray
Politoed
Pyukumuku
Raichu
Shiinotic
Trevenant
Vibrava

B-

Dugtrio
Galarian Linoone
Mr. Mime
Pikachu
Stonjourner
Vespiquen
Vullaby

C Rank

C+

Bellossom
Duosion
Dusclops
Emolga
Gothitelle
Grapploct
Hakamo-O
Krokorok
Maractus
Meowstic-F
Seaking
Togetic
Wigglytuff


C

Carkol
Drakloak
Eiscue
Glalie
Grookey
Palpitoad
Persian
Stoutland

C-

Beartic
Corsola
Dartrix
Fletchinder
Lunatone
Meowstic-M
Morgrem
Shedinja
Shuckle
Solrock
Zweilous

D Rank

Everything else!

 

[BulbaBrain]

from A- to B+ and from B+ to A-
So, this is going to be my first ever post on a viability thread, so I may be doing something wrong and anybody in further replies are open to tell me so - I do not take offense at counter-arguments or advice in what I should do in my further posts - just to make that clear.

The reason I state we should swap Manectric and Raichu's viability rank around is simply the matchup against viable Pokemon, how they may or may not get walled, or are just better Pokemon in general.

Raichu is a fast Pokemon with much better coverage options than Manectric's simple Volt Switch, Thunderbolt, fire move. It has access to different moves that are good against many of the threats in the tier. [Grass Knot for things like Lapras, Silvally Ground, Palpitoad and Stonjourner; Surf for Silvally Ground, Stonjourner, Silvally Fire, Carkol, and to beat its electric-type competitors; Focus Blast to beat - to an extent - Glaceon, Lapras, a weakened Type: Null, Greedent, etc. etc.]

Raichu is exceptional in the fact that it can actually ko a weakened silvally ground without a problem, and specs grass knot has a chance to ko after rocks!
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Ground: 205-244 (61.9 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Ground: 231-273 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Raichu Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Ground: 238-282 (71.9 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Raichu Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Ground: 264-312 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Manectric can only hope for one scenario - which is also very predictable:
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Overheat over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Ground: 286-337 (86.4 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The reason I say this is predictable is that nobody runs Overheat + Flamethrower, and also that the switch to silvally ground is pretty obvious, and something that can take the overheat, e.g carkol, which can also take a thunderbolt fairly well from Mane, can just stay in until his SpAtk is dropped.
Raichu, on the other hand, can just volt switch out and gain momentum by pressuring the opponent because of grass knot/surf.

It is true that Manectric has a better Special Attack stat, but that doesn't get you anywhere when you are completely walled by the tier's most threatening Pokemon in Silvally Ground unless you are specs, cannot beat the other good electric without being crippled to point where you get knocked out by rocks unless you are scarfed, and has paltry coverage options now that Hidden Power is gone.

Of course, I am not saying that Manectric is bad. The specs set is completely terrifying late-game, and scarf volt switch works very much like ninjask spamming u-turn when the opponent does not have an electric resist or immunity. Switcheroo can be very annoying if the opponent doesn't like your item, and can also mess the opponent's gameplan up as always. Both mane and raichu check Noctowl which is very nice as well.

I am completely aware that people may not want mane to drop to B+, and that is fine with me, because mane is not a bad mon. Raichu, on the other hand, does not deserve to be below it.

Thanks for reading, hope you all enjoyed :)

 

[Leni]

Alright, I'm also giving my long shot for a VR post and focusing on one bigger post this time;

C- > B

"ha-haaa memes coming" - actually im afraid I have to be serious with this cute and fluffy stufful. Stufful's ability is the thing makes it very viable and access to shut down pretty much any physical attacker, even the ones that hits super effectively. Ability of fluffy will half any physical contact damage which means top tier threats like silvally ground will be on best scenario only tickling stufful.

Stuffuls movepool isnt shabby at all either. Good coverage to hit literally whatever your team needs the most - of course non-invested attack wont be OHKOing others than pawniard (which is superB anyway), but you have still access to decide what your team needs most from moves like Hammer-arm, EQ, rock slide, zen headbutt and t-punch/ice punch.

The main set I have used has been either: rest-toxic and 2 attacks or rest-talk-toxic-damaging move.

The sets themselves

Stufful @ Eviolite
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk


Stufful @ Eviolite
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Hammer Arm
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

There is also sets where you can include roar, 4atks stuffuls and for some cute reason i can see SD+3atks to be enough fine to slap back sometimes.

Anyhow, the main thing stufful do is eat some hits and what would be better way than showing some calcs:

Calcs top to bottom

+6 0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 132-156 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Meanwhile hammer arm does up to 37-44%

252 Atk Silvally-Ground Multi-Attack vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 58-69 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO

252+ Atk Mawile Play Rough vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 90-108 (26.5 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO - Non Sheer Force / Offensive Roks Mawile

252 Atk Stonjourner Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Stufful: 92-109 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+6 252+ Atk Pawniard Iron Head vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 156-184 (46 - 54.2%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO - Hammer Arm OHKO back.

There's few calcs to point out how well it actually can eat hits consistently

Few replays where stufful does something;
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1086919198-8nkoie8g48461y0m1eax2ee1n9edl7ipw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1086843991-bruxibqx4dyya79fpt7fhqvf0k831uapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1088028346-8zks2hc3rjro2xy4j74avz5uuice7qrpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1087357960
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1087163858

Anyway, I believe Stufful to be 100% viable right now and worth for higher rank, don't let the cute outer shelter fool ya,

Cheers

 

[Leni]

So here are the two-liners for possible changes to "start with" as spoken on discord:

Silvally Fire A+ > S - Definitely S worth imo with its offensive presence and typing. Coverage lets it beat pretty much every possible switch in.

Beheeyem A > A+ - Behee is stupidly good right now with its access to teleport+future sight to put opponent in super tight spots. 125 future sight hurts a lot. Has access to run OTR, NP or even something like AV -sets as well. Good mon in every way and will do its job very well.

Silvally Dragon and Flying A > A+ - Well, they are silvallys and does their job every single possible way super well

Raichu B+ > A- - This was very well explained by BulbaBrain

Manectric A- > B+/B This was very well explaine by BulbaBrain - I would put Manectric probably even to just B right now.

Mr.Mime B+ > B - Mime keeps disappointing gen after gen, solid B mon, with its healing wish support + scarf, but dear to touch it with physical move and is poof - gone. Movepool doesnt offer too much either to make it higher right now in a tier where type null and other SpDef mons will eat its hits comfortably

Persian A- > B+/B - This has been very disappointing mon for me and it just cant offer enough breaking power with its great speed. 70 base attack is not overwhelming even with silk scarf - dont mind B.

Pikachu B+ > B- - Pikachu lost its main mon to kill with double prio (Ninjask, and swoobat on other hand) which leads it not that viable anymore. Its frailness means it cant switch in against literally anything. B- seems super fine place to be its niche

Grapptoloct B > B+ - Still a stronger neutral band user than Throh and access to CC instead of Superpower which will lower its attack leaves this mon super viable. Movepool offers as well prio move and access to run technician to get boosted brutal swing as good coverage with non-prio. Dont mind if stays tho in B

Gothitelle C+ > B+ - Super underrated in my opinion. Been messing around a lot lately with this and Goth convinced me with its speed. Speed what musharna/beheeyem doesnt get allows this base 95spatk fat blop be dangerous. Competitive will keep defoggers in leash or otherwise it will be clicking buttons. Works as better stored power+cosmic power user as well imo. Movepool offers a lot on this as well.

Heatmor C+ > B /B+ - Fire types are once again very limited in this tier and so are the real switch ins. With Heatmors coverage and good physical and special stats, its super hard to get anything reliably in. Cant see this thing ever to be worth of just C+, would preferably see this thing be B+

Morgrem D > C - So far this tier is carried by all the silvally forms this will be viable screens setter for HO. Access to Taunt wont allow too many things to defog at all, which means fairly free sweepers to get to do their thing. Supports very well.

Nothing else doesnt come to my mind with this quick look, but definitely feel free to shoot those noms down, if you think im not on right track. With others Akir posted, im very cool with right now. Also feel free to ask for a deeper thoughts on any mon named and I will try to do my best on explaining them,

Cheeeeeers

 

[GeneralAnnoyance]

Nominations

Silvally-Flying A > S : Silvally-Bird is one of if not the best setup sweepers in the tier right now. SD, Multiattack, Flamethrower, Surf hits everything except: Klang, Silvally-Rock, and SpDef Lunatone (underrated mon btw). Being able to remove your opponents Mawile with one good prediction makes this thing incredibly potent against most teambuilds. Silvally-Flying also comfortably switches into throh (provided it's not edge), grapploct, and machoke by being one of the most immediately offensive fighting checks in the tier and being the only relevant flying type that can revenge the aforementioned mons. I've been running this mon on webs and the ability to outspeed much of the tier only highlights how busted potent it is right now.

Shuckle C > B : Shuckle is our best sticky webber and he's honestly an underrated rocker as well. I think with the loss of silv-ground and noctowl, we have less viable options to defog webs away and Shuckle pairs very nicely with pawniard/gothitelle/any Vally to abuse the speed reduction for a well rounded webs core. It has no offensive presence but it does have decent enough bulk/typing and encore, which makes setup sweepers unable to abuse it's passivity. There's not much else to say about Shuckle that isn't already known. You have to run mental herb to avoid taunt mons but not much even runs taunt.

Overall, there are two outcomes with Shuckle:
Outcome 1: Get webs up. Silv-Bird wins
Outcome 2: Get webs bounced back by Hattrem/Defogged: Pawniard gets +2 and wins

Either way, Shuckle has set your team up for sweeping/wallbreaking potential and no other rocker has that ability right now (maybe Stonjourner, kinda?)

Pawniard A > A+ : When mach punchers are no where to be seen, Pawniard comes out to play. Pawn is a serious threat right now. I use it on webs and it creates some very uncomfortable situations at +2 as not much can survive the +2 knock into sucker punch or can resist both STAB and not be forced into a prediction scenario on knock/iron head. The typing gives it some really nice bulk to set up an SD and the fighting types we have get outsped and +2 iron headed to death once they're chipped. Pawn comfortably sets up on a lot of the meta right now as well. Liepard, def mawile, leafeon out of sun, persian, type-null (to an extent), vespiquen and if you're late game and feeling frisky Hattrem mystical fire on the SD to take you to +4. The only mon the can tolerate Pawn is Silv-Fighting which will get much better once we toss out flying for being comically busted. ANYWAY, pawn breaks most of our phys def walls: gourg, shiinotic, mush all hate it's presence. The only thing that can handle it is Pyukumuku (which is underrated) but no one even runs it and Carkol (which is easily chipped with hazards and pressured with the role compression it already takes on). The mon is nasty good and is definitely at the top of the meta currently.

Games that Highlight the Playstyle
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1097235729 (Silv-Flying using Throh as setup to SD and sweep on webs)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1097506516 (Shuckle Encore guarantees Silv-Flying Sweep)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1097724352 (Webs forcing defog, giving pawniard power to remove type null for partners)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1097729600 (Silvally-Flying unlocking DUMMY Mode after forcing the defog)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1097511726 (Really hard fought one, probably should've gotten the toxic off on the fox but webs ends up insuring silv can outspeed leafeon. Figured I'd include this as well because it's not all sweeps.)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1098464141 (Silvally breaking literally everything on webs. Switching into grapploct and gaining all momentum as well)

 

[m3po]

I don't like to make nominations this early into the metagame, but there are a lot of major issues that need to be addressed. With that, here's the longest VR post I've ever written.

Rises

Throh from A+ to S

Throh being A+ is a major injustice. Throh is not "really good", it is SUPERB. Now that its list of checks is further shortened by recent bans, I think Throh deserves S. When you think about it, a lot of the tier revolves around being able to handle Throh. It is one of the if not the first threat that comes to mind when building a team. Not to mention that Throh is certainly better than Stonjourner and arguably better than Mawile. The amount of sets it can run is on par with an S-rank, including: Bulk Up + Storm/Circle Throw, RestTalk, Guts wallbreaker, Protect+Toxic, Choice Band, and Assault Vest. It can even run coverage options like Poison Jab or Stone Edge to deal with Shiinotic and Silvally-Flying respectively, making it the most versatile Pokemon in the tier by far.

Lunatone from C- to B-/C+ (or higher)

Lunatone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Power Gem
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Earth Power

Okay, there's absolutely no way in hell it should be ranked this low. Choice Specs decimates common defensive cores such as Roselia + Lapras + Throh + Carkol, because one wrong prediction will have them one foot in the grave. It has excellent coverage options in Moonblast and Earth Power, nailing Silvally-Dark and Mawile/Pawniard respectively. The only thing that counters it is Type: Null (obviously). However, if you don't have this thing, good luck switching into Specs Lunatone. It forces an insane amount of 50/50s. Also, it is bulky enough to serve as an effective anti-lead against Stonjourner, Silvally-Flying, and Manectric.

Dusclops from D to C+ (or higher)

Yet another mon that is criminally underrated. First of all, it's miles better than Dusknoir, but we all knew that. Next, I can't stress enough how bulky Dusclops is. Its got utility options like Will-o to burn Pawniard and Haze to stop setup sweepers dead in their tracks. Personally, my favorite set is its stallbreaker one:

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 1 Spe
- Taunt
- Night Shade / Curse
- Mean Look
- Rest

This set is meant to counter Throh, but it also traps and eliminates many other bulky Pokemon like Lapras, Roselia, non-U turn Type: Null, etc. In all seriousness, don't underestimate its bulk. Anyways, here is a list of calcs that showcase how tanky it is.

dusclops the tank

252 Atk Life Orb Stonjourner Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 83-99 (29.2 - 34.8%) -- 7.7% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Flying Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 127-150 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Dusclops: 116-138 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Carkol from B to A-/B+

Carkol is easily one of the best and most reliable hazard setters in the tier. In addition to providing a valuable defensive typing + ability to its team, its list of utility options is pretty extensive: Stealth Rock, Spikes, Rapid Spin, and Scald. It is also very bulky and a solid check to stuff like Mawile, Pawniard, Silvally-Flying, Leafeon, Gourgeist-S, etc. Besides, it's way better than some other stuff in B. In fact, I don't think I've ever encountered a Silvally-Grass or Silvally-Electric in SS PU.

Palpitoad from B- to B

Since Silvally-Ground is gone, I would say that Palpitoad is the best Ground-type, maybe behind Vibrava. It is a dead counter to Manectric, Stonjourner, non-Grass Knot Raichu, Basculin, and Klang, some very dangerous offensive threats. Moreover, it is a good rocker, serving as effective role compression. It can form a solid defensive core with stuff like Carkol, Roselia, Lapras, etc.

Drops

Silvally-Rock from B+ to B
Silvally-Electric from B to B-
Silvally-Grass from B to C
Silvally-Bug from B- to C
Silvally-Ice from B- to Unranked

Let's be real, there's no real reason to use some of the Silvally forms other actually threatening ones like Flying, Dragon, Poison, Fighting, and Dark. Just because their name is Silvally does not mean that they're necessarily a terrifying beast with a 120 BP STAB move. I mean sure, Multi-Attack is very strong, but it isn't nearly enough to make certain forms viable. Nevertheless, I will provide a brief statement for each one.

1. Silvally-Rock: It is a nice counter to Silvally-Flying and it may have some offensive merit, but it struggles since Mawile, Throh, Pawniard, Basculin, and Stonjourner are everywhere.
2. Silvally-Electric: I honestly don't know too much about this but since I have never fought against it, that's probably a bad sign. Raichu and Manectric outclass it due to being faster. I would also say that Silvally-Dragon outclasses it due to having a better defensive typing. Its role seems to be very niche and it's definitely not on the same level as stuff like Grapploct, Klang, and Carkol.
3. Silvally-Grass: Alright, this thing is hot garbage. Unfortunately for it, it gets its ass whooped by Silvally-Flying, Silvally-Dragon, and Roselia, all of whom happen to be some of the more popular threats in the tier.
4. Silvally-Bug: I've never used this nor have I ever wanted to. One thing I do know is that it doesn't belong in B-.
5. Silvally-Ice: It gets outshined by Glaceon offensively and has no defensive utility whatsoever since it can't hold Heavy-Duty Boots. And it gets flat-out walled by Lapras.

Persian from A- to B+

I agree with dropping Persian. I was actually kind of surprised that Persian turned out to be a decent threat at the beginning of SS PU. But that was only during Alpha. Since Ninjask has risen, priority is a lot less sought after. Persian's main job was to stop a Ninjask sweep. Unfortunately, now it just seems like a weak yet fast mon that struggles to do any significant damage. The rise of Pawniard hurt it even more. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's nowhere near A-rank material.

Finally, it's time to do some "spring cleaning", which can also be referred to as the "nuking of mons with microscopic niches". Here are the Pokemon in D-rank that should be demoted to E-rank with no need of an explanation:
Pupitar, Frillish, Drilbur, Charjabug, Honedge

I don't mean to sound rude but there's still a lot I feel I should touch upon at a later date.

 

[zS]

Nominations :

Gourgeist from Unranked to C+/B- :
I Don't think I have to argue a lot about this one since I'm pretty sure it was just forgotten while VRs were done but if it wasn't let's be real, regular gourgeist definitely deserves to be at least C+. Really nice Speed Tier paired with a good movepool and a good stabbed priority move in Shadow Sneak is enough to be seen as a threat. It has also access to fire blast to catch mawile on the switch and Rock Slide for Fire Type that would be too confident such as Carkol.

Set

All out Attacker (Gourgeist) @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Power Whip
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Sneak
- rockslideexplosion

Silvally Flying from A to A+ :
Probably the best Set Up sweeper we have atm, That is as Scary ingame as it is during the Teambuilding session. Every Team has to be prepared to that Pokemon that Switches really easily on one of the best and most popular pokemon in the actual metagame : Throh. Really good offensive typing with unresisted coverage and powerfull stab move makes Silvally Flying the best Silvally Form we have.

Set

Swords Dance (Silvally-Flying) @ Flying Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Surf
- Swords Dance
- Flamethrower

Heatmor from C+ to B
Very Underrated pokemon in my opinion, Fire Typing is Just insane offensively in our tier since Fire Types are really limited and Fire Resists too since they sit on higher tiers. Heatmor defenitely benefits from that. Has pretty good offensive Stats paired with a huge movepool and mixed sets only have a few switches in. Defenitely a B rank worthy mon.

Set

All out Attacker (Heatmor) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: White Smoke
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Stomping Tantrum

Mixed (Heatmor) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: White Smoke
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch

 

[Specs]

Being one of the most consistent anti offense options, I don't think we should drop Persian at all. Especially not with Sun being prominent and Silvallys dropping Flame Charge a lot more in favor of harder hitting coverage options. I'm not sure why priority is considered less sought after at all. We still have a lot of fast threats in the meta that you can't always rely on defensively checking. The meta also being kinder towards electrics like Manectric and Raichu is also good for it. Idk Persian still feels like it does what it does really well, and is appreciated at the moment.

This sort of leads me into my nom: Fraxure B- to at the least B

This mon is incredible. Between CB and Evio DD it threatens a lot and gets set up opportunity because of it. CB First Impression gets you out of just about every tight spot, nuking Leafeon and LO Ivysaur (sun is stupid.) CB Outrage is 2 hit ko'ing anything that isn't immune pretty much, great for breaking cores without fairys. Has coverage for Mawile Shiinotic too, it's just prediction reliant.

DD is also extremely scary, +1 Outrage kills vallys after rocks, Mawile stops being a consistent check because it can't kill you, It eats the most common and safe speed control option in Manectric. The ability to bluff CB is also great if you happen to run FI on a DD set, one wrong move and this mon can just win. All in all this mon should most certainly be higher than B- as I don't think that rank represents just how scary Fraxure is

 

[CB Weedle]

Mawile A+ --- S
I think that Mawile deserves S rank because its pretty much the face of pu. Its imo the best sr user and can serve as a defensive check for most of the physical attackers of the tier. Its also one of the best wallbreaker of the tier and it has access to a boosting move in sd and it can even use an offensive Rock set. Its good typing and access to priority in sucker punch leads to games were it almost always takes away at least one of the opposing mons while it is able to pressurize all types of playstyle, no matter if it does it by boosting, setting up sr or by simple breaking and I think that this viability and especially its splashability and its versitaliy lead to it deserving s rank.

Throh A+ --- S
Throh is also pretty splashable as it can serve as a great breaker, but also as a bulky setup sweeper or even as a phazer with defensive resttalk. Facade+Knock off+cc is unresisted coverage and I think that the Flame orb breaker set is just unbelievably threatening and nearly uncounterable

Beheeyem A --- A+
I really enjoy beheeyem, not only because of its great breaking power but actually because of its access to reliable recovery, teleport and trick room combined with a strong ability. Its just such a great mon atm and it can easily pressurize the opponent by its own, but having the ability to support its team reliably with trick room almost always leads to a Kill with one of the teams breakers like throh. I also think that semi trick room Teams are really viable atm and thats probably just because of the great support that beheeyem offers.

Glaceon A --- A-/B+
I really cant explain why cause this mon seems to be really good on paper, but it just feels underwhelming when you play with it or against it. Yeah, specs can be powerful, but it feels like glaceon is worn down by hazards and chip before it can even attack the opponents Team and therefore not even my balance teams were threatened by it yet at all.

Pawniard A --- A+
Great priority move, access to stab knock off, mind games against defog and a really good STAB combination. It feels like pawn is always threatening and always a good choice for an offense Team and I think its just to good to not be at least a+. I would probably even vote s but I think throh is just too common to justify that rise.

Hattrem A- --- B
This mon feels pretty underwhelming. It doesnt really do things beside spreading para as the mons that its supposed to check just knock it off to cripple it heavily. Besides this, it just lacks the recovery to stay around long and therefore its not that reliable at keeping rocks of the field.

Persian A- --- stay
I completely disagree with the people who say that persian doesnt deserve A cause I really think that its speed tier combined with the strong fake out priority is just too good against offense and it is always a good check to speed boosting setup sweepers like flame charge silvally or rain dance ludicolo. This mon is just to strong against offense and is imo a part of pu offense which is too good to be ranked in b.

Shiinotic A- --- A
I really enjoy Shiinotic and I think its pretty overlooked in the current metagame. Offensive Spore is a great balance breaker and I think that full spatk pixie plate Shiinotic should be used more often as it can easily pressure balance builds, cause sleep and serve as a check to some of the metagames threats f.e. throh. Having the strongest moonblast in the tier also helps out when the tiers best steel type is pretty weak on the spdef side.

Pikachu B+ --- C+
I cant see a reason why Pikachu should be in the same tier as raichu. I even think that raichu is the better double priority user than pikachu, cause lo is nearly as strong and raichu is actually able to outspeed things like silvally. Raichu is also able to tank a few hits on the special side while pikachu dies to every blow in the wind and thats why I think that raichu should be ranked higher than pikachu.

A mon which is just missing atm is delibird, which is imo better than glalie this gen, because of rapid spins buff and access to destiny bond. I dont know if everyone forgot about it or if i am the only one who thinks it is viable but I actually think that it deserves to be at least ranked. I think C would be fine.

 

[SergioRules]

Pikachu B+ --- C+
I cant see a reason why Pikachu should be in the same tier as raichu. I even think that raichu is the better double priority user than pikachu, cause lo is nearly as strong and raichu is actually able to outspeed things like silvally. Raichu is also able to tank a few hits on the special side while pikachu dies to every blow in the wind and thats why I think that raichu should be ranked higher than pikachu.

I have a couple problems with this nom.
1) Nominating a pokemon for a move down an entire rank is almost unheard of.
2) The whole purpose of using Pika is the Fake Out+Espeed combo, which hits notably harder than a LO Raichu.
3) You mention Raichu's speed tier and that's the whole reason that it and Pika aren't really comparable. Pika needs the priority, while Raichu being one of the fastest Pokemon in the tier means that it functions much better with Choice Specs, Scarf, or a Nasty Plot set.
They both have different, very useful roles, so comparing them by saying "Raichu hits almost as hard" doesn't really matter because Raichu does sweeping and special breaking better while Pikachu is a priority revenge killer and physical breaker. They're fine in the same rank.

I'd also like to agree with Throh and Mawile -> S, Silvally-Flying -> A+, and Fraxure -> B. All are extremely good mons and just keep getting better imo.

 

[Akir]

VR Update #1:

This is a big one

Silvally-Dragon A+ to S
Throh A+ to S
Beheeyem A to A+
Lapras A to A+
Glaceon A to A+
Pawniard A to A+
Gourgeist Super A- to A
Leafeon A- to A
Musharna A- to A
Raichu B+ to A-
Mr. Mime B+ to A-
Carkol B to B+
Persian A- to B+
Fraxure B- to B+
Grapploct B to B+
Gothitelle C+ to B
Heatmor C+ to B
Palpitoad B- to B
Silvally Bug B- to B
Eiscue B- to B
Silvally Psychic B- to B
Solrock B- to B
Thievul C+ to B
Gourgeist (Normal) UR to B-
Stufful C- to C+
Shuckle C to C+
Lunatone C- to C+
Munchlax B to C+
Pyukumuku B- to C+
Dusclops D to C-
Morgrem D to C-
Hippopotas D to C-
Vulpix B- to UR

Most of these shifts were just small adjustments that are to be expected from an initial VR. However, I still wanted to take the time to explain some of the bigger ones:

• Silvally-Dragon is fairly unquestionably a force of nature in the format. The Swords Dance set has a mountain of assets such as perfect coverage and an Outrage with no lock or confusion in its Multi Attack. The support set is also easily worth a team slot, fulfilling multiple resists for defensive cores while still Defogging and being able to plant a solid Draco Meteor when needed. Overall an exceedingly excellent mon at the moment, well worth S.
• Throh also hit S, and for people who have been here since the beginning this might feel overdue. Throh has a good variety of sets that can perform multiple duties for a team. Along with that, Throh's great bulk mixed with good resistances to things like Rock make Throh a cornerstone of many defensive cores. In terms of offensive glue, it is hard to go wrong with Throh. Another solid S rank.
• Goodbye Vulpix, you were loved...but not really.
• Every single Silvally either went up in rank or stayed where it is. With how the Silvally Factor is playing out in PU, I don't think any Silvally is worth a drop. When one form gets banned, another tends to fill its place.

With that, feel free to continue discussing the changes and suggesting new ones. This metagame changes weekly so any and all input is valuable. See you all next time!

 

[ManOfMany]

Whiscash to C-

I've been running physically defensive Whiscash on some teams with the set below. Its unique typing offers it the ability to check a lot of pokemon in the tier, including Stonjourner, Pawniard, Manectric, Mawile, Liepard, most Pikachu, and some forms of Silvally. Although it's not a hard counter to many pokemon, its general bulk along with rocky helmet allows it to be a consistent annoyance throughout the match. Although Palpitoad is definitely a better pokemon overall due to Stealth Rock and Water Absorb, its weakness to Knock Off and inability to run Rocky Helmet actually makes a big difference for this kind of set. Here is what I run

Whiscash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold / Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald

and some meh replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1106373304
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1076415999
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1106375362

Other thoughts:
- Heatmor could move higher, as a good wallbreaker and the only decent offensive Fire-type in the tier it is valuable.
- Roselia could also go higher. It offers both great offensive presence, and a check to top threats like Raichu and Leafeon in one slot. Not to mention it is the best Spiker in the tier.
- A+ is a little high for Lapras. I feel it is a mon that struggles to be threatening enough when running defensive EVs (giving stuff like Throh too much of a free pass) and something like Specs are underrated but not really on par with the other Top tier mons.
- Literally every Silvally form could move up another one or two ranks. We have all seen replays of any one of them sweeping or holding together teams at this point. There is no weak Silvally.

 

[The Diabolic Gift]

Whiscash to C-

I've been running physically defensive Whiscash on some teams with the set below. Its unique typing offers it the ability to check a lot of pokemon in the tier, including Stonjourner, Pawniard, Manectric, Mawile, Liepard, most Pikachu, and some forms of Silvally. Although it's not a hard counter to many pokemon, its general bulk along with rocky helmet allows it to be a consistent annoyance throughout the match. Although Palpitoad is definitely a better pokemon overall due to Stealth Rock and Water Absorb, its weakness to Knock Off and inability to run Rocky Helmet actually makes a big difference for this kind of set. Here is what I run

Whiscash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold / Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald

and some meh replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1106373304
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1076415999
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1106375362

Other thoughts:
- Heatmor could move higher, as a good wallbreaker and the only decent offensive Fire-type in the tier it is valuable.
- Roselia could also go higher. It offers both great offensive presence, and a check to top threats like Raichu and Leafeon in one slot. Not to mention it is the best Spiker in the tier.
- A+ is a little high for Lapras. I feel it is a mon that struggles to be threatening enough when running defensive EVs (giving stuff like Throh too much of a free pass) and something like Specs are underrated but not really on par with the other Top tier mons.
- Literally every Silvally form could move up another one or two ranks. We have all seen replays of any one of them sweeping or holding together teams at this point. There is no weak Silvally.

I was running a Hydration set with Rain Dance over Sleep Talk the other day also running a Rocky Helmet, I found it very useful as well and was actually going to suggest the same thing.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1101386558
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1101393590
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1101397822
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1101412099
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1101442934 Opponent Ranked: 266
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1101453440 Opponent Ranked: 70
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1101466346-v3frbobiuekuxk20k2qxxqm7oimmd5ppw Opponent Ranked: 5 (warning it's long)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1107112824 Finals of a tournemnt

My Set:
----------------------------
Whiscash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Rain Dance
- Rest


I feel like Palpitoad doesn't perform this role as well because Palpitoad risks Knock Offs and this set is capable of winning late game if it's checks are worn down more easily, and irritates and chips the Pokemon it checks with consistent rocky helmet chip of which really adds up. I have not made many posts on this thread so I apologize if this isn't formatted too well but I felt had I had to give my thoughts. This set can reliably check a lot of physical threats in the meta and can do so consistently, Whiscash can check physical threats and still be able to take on threats like Manectric later in the game with Rest-Hydration. I agree with this nom.

 

[MZ]

Council is going to do a large VR update soon that should probably last us until the next round of shifts and bans. Now is the time to make a post if you want anything changed!

Some quick personal opinions: I'd start Rime and Falinks in S and the other drops in A+, they're all very good and should be very high although I do kind of keep changing my mind on which drops are S and which are A+.
C+ to B+: This is a lot better than we gave it credit for, its blanket ability for mons from Rime (not all sets I know) to Basculin is incredibly valuable. Obviously has gaping flaws like not attacking things and being Toxic'd, but I still think this has a plenty strong niche rn, playing around something that just walls half your team can be really tricky
C- to somewhere higher: A similar very passive mon I think we've underrated. This doesn't mean overall I think stall is great or anything, but even just the individual walls are pretty decent. It also helps that we have strong hazards right now and simply forcing switches can be a big source of damage for a mon like Dusclops
B to A-: Fat Tspikes fighting resist is crazy valuable now and Roselia is uh, not really that. Right now I think Mareanie is probably like high A but pretty soon we're going to start preparing for this thing and it'll still be good but a lot less powerful. However it's still going to be good, Tspikes are decent again, and it beats Dubwool which is massive in this meta
B+ to maybe B-: This thing was always bad and now we have Crustle. It can still kinda do its spin stuff but it's very passive and burn reliant and matchup reliant. I've got very little faith in this mon, would consider dropping further even but people seem to really like it.

There's obviously a lot of other stuff, the VR was still pretty raw before we had massive shifts. I just wanted to hit these opinions because they feel less mainstream than, say, moving Rockvally up now that other vallies got banned.

 

[Expulso]

Drakloak: B- --> B+ or B

I am going to start this off by being perfectly honest and admitting that I haven't used any other mons below A- rank so far in PU, haha. I've played a few CPL games with a team using pretty standard mons. In between those A-rank mons, however, was Sub / Disable / Wisp / Hex Drakloak, and it puts in a ton of work. Shoutout to tjay in the PU room for the suggestion!

Here's an example of a room tour game against PTF where Drakloak is very hard to break, KOing 2 mons from 100% while also burning Palpitoad before it finally died.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1109590862-8b0f94q8zpdqdnyx5kegcy9ihm0x339pw
[he said "room hidden because i'll use this for kickoff", but this was like a week and half ago so he used the team already, dw!
also silv-poison was banned so i think it's ok to share this replay lol]

Here is the set i have been using:
Drakloak @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Disable

You can probably run more bulk, but you are surviving through Sub-Disable anyways so you shouldn't be taking too many hits directly. Additionally, Drakloak is very weak without 252 SpAtk.

I have found this set super useful to
- cripple Pawniard for the powerful Psychic-types in the tier,
- generally annoy the many bulky Pokemon in PU that only have one attack that can break Drakloak's sub [e.g. Shiinotic's Moonblast]
- outspeed and Wisp Silvally formes [from my experience before Silv-Poison's ban; not sure whether that is as relevant now].

Drakloak would also benefit if there is more usage of Toxic Spikes now that Silv-Poison is gone, which Megazard mentioned above [and I agree with]. Despite base 60 Special Attack being lame, its 130 BP Hex, high Speed tier, and good typing (which gives it better resistances and survivability than, say, Gastly) make it useful, as does the fact that most of the tier's more offensive Pokemon hate status.

It's a great utility mon and I think it deserves a bump to B+, although B also seems fine to me.

 

[zS]

Nominations :
Rises :

Gastly from C- to C+

Set

Gastly @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 HP / 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Pain Split

Reasoning

Gastly gets stronger and stronger as the different forms of Silvally are banned in my opinion. The interest of this Pokemon lies in Substitute and Pain Split. Pain Split coupled with its low HP stat allows it to deal very good damage while recovering almost all its life with each use. Moreover, its unresisted STABs in the tier makes it even more threatening to me.

Replay

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1112351486

Togetic from C+ to B-

Sets

Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 100 SpA / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Nasty Plot

Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
- Defog
- Roost

Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Roost
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Bell

Reasoning

I'm so sad not to have a replay that shows togetic in action I really wanted to have one but hey we'll do without it. The metagame is really ideal for Togetic right now. With Dubwool Falinks Hitmontop and Throh that are overhyped using this Pokémon makes sense and it can be very useful if well used. Its access to a very good support movepool as well as its natural bulk coupled with eviolite make it very difficult to kill which enhances its effectiveness. Finally its access to Nasty Plot can make it really threatening at the end of the game and allows it to win his duel against a dubwool who would try to pp stall the more defensive versions.

Silvally-Psychic from B to A+

Sets

Silvally-Psychic @ Psychic Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Flame Charge

Silvally-Psychic @ Psychic Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- U-turn
- Multi-Attack
- Flamethrower

Reasoning

I don't think I'd have much to argue for that one. Everyone knows that Silvally Psychic is very strong right now. Having an unreased coverage coupled with Swords Dance and its powerful STAB Multi Attack this pokemon has really become one of the best set up third sweepers. In addition to that, Silvally Poison's recent ban that overshadowed him brought it to the front of the stage.

Drops :

Lapras from A+ to A-

Reasoning

it really hurts me to have to admit it since I love this pokemon but Lapras no longer deserves to be A+. All new drops can pressure Lapras in different ways. Falinks uses defensive sets as a Setup fodders, same for Dubwool and Mr Rime's Nasty Plot sets. Hitmontop and Crustle can put pressure on it with their powerful STABs. The metagame is no longer at all suited to this Pokemon which in my opinion will start a long fall in the VR

Carkol from B+ to C

Reasoning

I'm going to silence a myth that's all about this pokemon. Carkol sucks. It's a really passive pokemon and a spinner and a hazard setter that is weak to rocks without being able to run hdb. In addition to that, the recent shifts gave us crustle which is a much better hazard setter in addition to having a real offensive presence.

Alright thanks for reading me and cya soon for another VR post. :D

 

[Akir]

Gonna post a few thoughts here about a few mons:

to S

I don't think that this really surprises anyone. I put a high price on S but Mr. Rime fits into the rank like a glove. The Specs set has no switchin, just to start. The addition of Focus Blast separates the set massively from Glaceon, meaning that old common and reliable Ice switchins like Lapras are suddenly risky. Combined with good natural bulk and the fact that Healing Wish is broke af in PU can easily be thrown on the set too means that it is a premiere offensive powerhouse in PU. A lot of these assets also apply to the Scarf set as well. However, what really sells the mon into being S for me is the fact that Rime's support set is also about as effective. Rapid Spin, Slack Off...even Thunder Wave makes the support set a strong staple of the tier. The thing gets Nasty Plot too, along with half of the mons in the format but Rime can make great use of it as well. The multi-faceted nature of Mr. Rime and the ability to perform exceedingly well in every role it performs makes it a pretty easy S rank to me. This is the only new S I'm considering atm.

A+ to A-

Lapras is still a pretty good mon, but the company it keeps in A+ are notably better in PU than good ol Lapras. The addition of Mr. Rime is a notable blemish on its career of being an Ice switchin, and the Specs set is also hampered by Rime existing. There are also a lot more checks to Lapras all of a sudden, such as Falinks and Hitmontop and Elecvally and Rockvally and so on, with the worst case being setup fodder for mons like Falinks. Personally I think A+ was a bit of a stretch when it was initially put there, but nowadays it seems rather out of place. Also gratz of zS for sniping me <3

A to A+

If there was a mon that came out on top from all of these shifts, it is Gourgeist-XL. Many new drops are countered by Gourgeist (Falinks, Dubwool, Hitmontop, some Crustle) and many more staples of the tier are checked by it as well. As the tier progresses and slows down, Gourgeist is proving to be a staple gluemon and defensive wall in the format and the VR should reflect its growing success. Also I was suspicious of Skill Swap Toxic before but now woo that is a great set at the moment.

A- to A
Free Volt Switch is free. Not much more to say. Fire is great coverage as well, but ever since Groundvally left Electrics have been on the rise. Now many teams rely of Scarf Manectric to revenge kill +1 Silvally, and the generally powerful and difficult-to-avoid Thunderbolt makes Specs a great wallbreaker as well. A genuinely and consistently great mon at the moment.


There are also a few more that are worth touching on but I will leave it for others. Everyone should also expect Silvallys to rise after each one is banned. When one falls, another Silvally rises to the occasion. Gonna try to pump out the next VR shift by the end of this Kickoff round too, so see you all again soon!

 

[gum]

hi, thought i'd make a couple of noms and give my opinion about some of the ones above c:

drops

s to a+
kinda a controversial nom i guess, but honestly throh just isn't as omnipresent and splashable as it used to be. in this meta filled with faster fighting-types, throh struggles a little bit more to find its place on most team, and its answers, like gourg-xl and mareanie, are as common as ever due to falinks, hitmontop, and even dubwool all being so relevant. this kinda forces it to mostly have a defensive niche, but it's kinda meh at that as it was kinda used as a glaceon switchin, when now the most relevant ice-type is mr. rime. thanks to intimidate, hitmontop also does a better job at switching on rock-types like stonjourner / rockvally. it's not a bad choice by any means, i just don't think it's the same mon it was before the tier shifts.

a+ to a / a-
i dont really think i have to explain this one much, but basically mr. rime dropping fucked glaceon over. not only is mr. rime a much better specially offensive ice-type due to its typing, speed, and access to focus blast, it also offers way more than glaceon teambuilding wise. mr. rime is also an ok switchin to glaceon, as it basically always has to predict right. the tap dancer dropping also made answers to ice-types like klang and type: null considerably more common. glaceon is also way easier to revenge kill and offensively pressure now with falinks and hitmontop both in the tier, and with spikes and tspikes being so good rn. overall, i'd just say it's a pretty awkward pokémon to use currently due to mr. rime being so splashable.

rises

b- to b
i've always been a huge fan of regular gourgeist, but right now i think it's in a really good spot. its speed tier is what seperates it from the other forms, as outspeeding mr. rime and revenge killing it is huge right now. you can also switch hard into its rapid spin and force it out or get rid of it after some chip with power whip. not needing jolly to outspeed mr. rime means you can go with adamant and still have leftovers evs to put in hp. having a fast will-o is also super nice, as u can cripple stuff like life orb falinks or hitmontop before they get a chance to click throat chop / aerial ace. the nasty plot set is also a fun one, outspeeding mr. rime and falinks which makes it considerably harder to revenge kill compared to slower gourgeist forms. nasty plot also makes it an amazing dubwool counter and it just setups on so much stuff rn, and has a nice surprise factor too!

(electric) b to a- / a
work up electricvally is probably one of the scariest wallbreaker in the tier right now, mostly because it has boltbeam coverage + flamethrower / surf, which allows it to dismantle teams relying on stuff like gourg, vibrava, and type: null to answer the more common electric-types raichu and manectric. swords dance + flame charge sets also are super threatening as manectric, the most common scarfer in the tier right now, fails to revenge kill electricvally unless it's severely weakened. swords dance sets can even fit one of ice beam or grass pledge to hit one of vibrava and gourgeist or palpitoad. i've played around with defog sets a bit, and they work decently well if u have a tspikes absorber. it does good against most of our rockers while also being a capable electric-resist, although getting volt switched on repetitively can chip you down pretty quickly. i'd argue it's the scariest silvally form right now but that's a completely different convo so yeah bop.

other noms

to s - agree
not much to add, but yes this is definitely s-rank worthy. it's the tier's most threatening wallbreaker and has a ton of utility moves. it's so versatile and splashable it's actually hard to not just slap it on a team, with sets ranging from specs to spdef.

b to a- - agree
toxic spikes are so good right now, and so are fighting-types. mareanie sets tspikes and is also a fighting-type resist, so basically it's good right now. koff support is also super fun, as u can punish mr. rime users who tend to go hard into mareanie to attack / spin your tspikes.

b+ to unranked lower - agree
yes, this pokémon is currently atrocious and the only reasons to run it are having rocks + spin and flame body which it does great in theory but in practice it's awful. it's also a spinner weak to rocks and with no recovery, which makes justifying using pretty hard.
--

ty for reading c:

e: oh and btw falinks is nowhere near s-rank worthy imo, no retreat sets are honestly not even that good or common at this point, and while i do think aoa is a great set, i really dont think it's worthy of s-rank considering how much u struggle against common stuff like gourg / mare. a rank, yes, maybe even a+, but i really don't think it should be in s.

ty for reading this part too oo

 

[BulbaBrain]

Okay, I'm gonna go on some of my thoughts. Feel free to counterpoint me.

Rises

(bug) from B to A
This is probably the best Silvally form right now since Poisonvally and Fightingvally have left. It is a good check to Mr. Rime, which as Akir touched on, is looking amazing. It can work well as a pivot, makes good use in stab Uturn, and as always, any vally is a scary sweeper. Also, it can run psychic fangs to hit the fighting types that it resists itself.

(psychic) from B to A
Same reasoning as the bugvally, but now its a typing which is good in this meta, doesn't totally lose to knock, beats off the fightings (especially throh, which tends to run spdef, happily, and is a defogger who is not weak to rocks, which is nice. It also has flamethrower for pawniard and mawile.

from C to B-
Now this is a bit controversial, I know. It might be comparitively weak to some other Pokemon, but it should not be this low. Psychic types are extremely good now with the good fighting types around. It's great ability in competitive makes use of the fact that hazard stack is everywhere and there are only two good spinners (Rime and Top), one of which doesn't even run spin half of the time because its scarf/specs set is also quite viable. This leads a lot of teams straying towards defoggers, which is also why pawniard (and even Gothitelle to an extent) are very good. Meowstic also has a good movepool, an amazing speed tier for PU, different sets (NP, Specs, Scarf) and a bit of utility, although that's usually left to the male form.
To be fair though, its speed tier leaves it just outsped by manectric, which is irritating, its offensive stat could be better, and it needs coverage for pawniard.

B to A-: Fat Tspikes fighting resist is crazy valuable now and Roselia is uh, not really that. Right now I think Mareanie is probably like high A but pretty soon we're going to start preparing for this thing and it'll still be good but a lot less powerful. However it's still going to be good, Tspikes are decent again, and it beats Dubwool which is massive in this meta

Huh. from B to A- (or B+?)
I think MZ has covered Gloom pretty well for me using mareanie as his pokemon lol. Anyway one thing it loses is tspikes. But not only is gloom a reliable tspikes absorber, it's less passive, has good bulk in both def and spdef (rose doesn't have that). Has better defensive stats compared to mareanie (doesn't get recover/regenerator but it gets strength sap). I think Gloom is comparable to Mareanie in many ways, and of course its different in some ways, but they both do their jobs well as defensive pivots, tspikes absorbers, and great poison types for PU.

from A- to A
Akir touched on this as well. After Groundvally left, Manectric has been on the rise. Its ability to freely voltswitch against many teams works almost like a non-OP ninjask in PU. It has a great speed tier, and is almost always an alternative wincon that opens midway through the game. Its ability to gain momentum without even trying is crazy, and +1 Scarf Manectric is almost unbeatable in the lategame once all the ground types + tbolt absorbers are gone. I have even used specs manectric once to bait all the spdef stuff in so i can spam volt switch and switch into sth like fraxure, which obviously pressures the opponent because manectric baits out all of the non pdef stuff (the spdef stuff) to switch in to it because it hits like a truck and needs something to wall it. If the opponent doesn't have the manectric counter, then you have automatically won.

Drops
from B+ to C-/D/UR
1. It has no niches now that there are more spinners and Crustle
2. It has a crap defensive typing for a mon that wants to be defensive
3. It is a spinner that loses to rocks
4. It has no offensive pressure
5. It relies solely on flame body
6. The only thing it reliably beats is itself (with Scald)
What more do I have to say?

from A to B
Leafeon is not a bad Pokemon. It just sucks in the metagame. The fact that it has many good switchins (Gloom, Bugvally to name a few) is sad already. Another annoying thing is that most good Pokemon in PU are specially offensive pokemon that beat it (Glaceon, Rime, Manectric). It has underwhelming coverage that is limited to Leaf Blade, Knock Off (which is a good move tbf), X-Scissor (which really only beats itself and bellossom), and double edge. It has access to Swords Dance, but there are a lot of good physdef walls that resist its coverage, and can pivot into stuff like Manectric as hinted at above. Also, most silvallies run flamethrower, and that's self explanatory.

Thanks for reading, hope you liked it :)

 

[Raahel]

hello, I come to give my nominations and my opinion on some mons (and sorry for my bad english is not my native language)

New Drops

A or A+
Falinks seems to me one of the best mons added in the recent tier shift, his set does not retreat with lum berry or shed shell is very good together with a hazard setter to make a clean sweep in midgame or lategame, his AoA set is my favorite has a great coverage of types in addition to being a very good wallbreaker has some counters like bugvally and several revengekillers but it seems to me a super cool mon in the tier right now.

A- or A
Crustle seems to me the best or one of the best hazard setters in the tier rn, being able to put spikes and rocks at the same time and eliminate some threats such as mr rime or bug vally, his Shell smash set does not attract much attention due to the variety of types that are fighting right now and other things like vibrava or mawile that can stop it very easily, even so it seems to me a very good mon and I think it deserves a high rank

Rises

A- to A
After the departure of ground vally from the tier and the arrival of mr rime it has made manectric much more viable than before since most of its counters (vibrava, palpitoad etc ..) have decreased their usage with the arrival of mr rime, the set scarf seems to me super good rn since it is one of the best speed controls and revenge killers in the tier.

B to B+ or A-
Mareanie is super good in the tier rn, she can easily enter most types of fighting in the tier, she is also able to put Tspikes since Poisonvally was banned, it is not very easy to remove the spike without doing rapid spin or defog, most of the mons are more than all checks like raichu, manectric or mr rime since there are not many mons that can tell you in the tier, it seems to me a very good mon.

Drops

A+ to A- or B+
with the recent addition of mr rime and multiple bulky fighting type stounjourner it does not seem very good to me to say, since before it did not attract my attention and now much less with the recent tier shifts it is salvageable because it can check several mons like bug vally mareanie etc , but as I say I would say that it should be lowered a bit of rank

S to A or A-
it is not a secret that mr rime conditioned the tier a lot and now that bugvally and psychic vally are much more viable than before it seems to me that throh is a niche in the tier rn, there are many more options like falinks or the same hitmontop, it would be appreciated a drop in the rank.

and

A+ to A- or B+
I do not have much to say here the arrival of mr rime and multiple checks of fight type that arrived at the ground made a niche to these two mons and it seems to me that their rank should be lowered.

Other Mentions:

Bug and Psychic to A or A+

A- to A

B- to C/D/Unranked (super niche LOL)

B to B- or C

 

[Sir Pin]

Jumping on the nom train

Dusknoir from C- to C+/B-

Dusknoir imo is the best spinblocker in the tier currently, being able to reliably switch into 2/3 of our common spinners (Carkol, Mr. Rime) and offensively pressure them both, as well as wall some Hitmontop sets and win the 1v1. It has a solid niche over other spinblockers like Gourgeist and Dusclops due to its good Attack and great coverage, giving it offensive presence compared to the other two which are very passive. Its exclusive access to Darkest Lariat and its ability to ignore stat changes gives it an unparalleled mu vs bulky setup psychics like Gothitelle, Duosion and Musharna, which often lose the 1v1 even after a Calm Mind or two.

Now I have noticed that the negative stigma associated with Dusknoir often comes from people struggling to find a set that works for it. For this reason I have attached a set which I have found to be effective:

Solid Offensive Set

Dusknoir @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Darkest Lariat
- Power-Up Punch
- Ice Punch / Sucker Punch

You will notice there are no Ghost-type moves on this set, and I will explain why. Ghost and Dark hit the exact same things, and while Shadow Punch has 5 more base power than Darkest Lariat I think the latter is much more valuable due to its secondary effect and the fact that Dusknoir has exclusive access to it. Sucker Punch also does more damage than Shadow Sneak. Assault Vest is arguably the best item for offensive Dusknoir, taking advantage of its crazy Sp. Def and allowing it to comfortably switch into most neutral special attacks in the tier. Earthquake is great coverage which allows it to hit common mons like Mawile, Manectric and Raichu, and now Silvally-Electric. Power-Up Punch is here to give Dusknoir snowball potential as well as to hit Dark-types like Pawniard that may switch in. The last slot is quite interchangeable, I mostly prefer either Ice Punch to hit Shiinotic or Sucker Punch for the priority and to deal extra damage to Mr. Rime and Silvally-Psychic. The Speed is to outspeed base 50s like defensive Mawile which you then 2HKO with Earthquake. I would attempt to rank this higher but I believe C+ at least is very deserved.

Linoone-Galar from C+ to B-/B

My reasoning can be found here, but given the new tier changes I will quickly specify it benefits greatly from the Silvally-Fighting ban, has Protect to stall out First Impression from Falinks and has good matchups against Silvally-Psychic and Mr. Rime.

Other nominations

and

from A- to A: Agree
Both strong and very fast pivots that benefit from the Appletun ban

from B+ to B-: Agree
A decent mon that was mainly appreciated for its spinning and hazard stack capabilities but faces competition from Hitmontop and Mr. Rime in the former and Crustle in the latter

from B to A-: Agree
A strong defensive mon that can quite easily be fit onto teams and stick around with little to no support thanks to Recover and Regenerator, the Poison typing being great for walling almost all the tier's fighting types and can run Haze to prevent opponents from setting up on it. It is hard to play around this mon without Silvally-Psychic or -Electric

from Unranked to C-: Agree
I think Mush covered this well in the post below but it's worth mentioning this is the single best answer to Dubwool rn, Infiltrator lets it fire off super effective Overheats through Sub which easily OHKO it, all the while being immune to Body Press with Payback being a 3HKO at best

 

[ManOfMany]

stop the Carkol hate train. It can still definitely pull its weight on a team. Flame Body is a massive annoyance for most teams, considering how present Pawniard, Mawile, Leafeon, and physically based Silvally forms are. Sure, it's luck-based but it can swing a match in your favor considering how many physical hits Carkol can tank if played smart. Its typing is a mixed bag but it's really the only rocker that is able to take on the previously mentioned mons and it just has nice general neutral bulk for getting Rocks up. Spinning is still really cool too even if Rime and Chan can spin. If you put emergency Rapid Spin on Carkol because you would like hazards off but don't absolutely need a reliable remover, it frees up another moveslot that makes pokemon like Rime all the more dangerous. All it needs to do is get up rocks, burn a few mons, and maybe get off a spin to be worth it in a match. Awkward mon for sure, but certainly not bad

 

[Musharnanigans]

About to make my very first nom post in SS PU oh lord here i go. going to work myself up from D rank to the higher ranks to keep a sense of order cuz this post is going to be kinda long.

Honedge D -> C-

All ghost types have gotten better from the recent drops and Honedge happens to be one of the few ghosts that can check both Mr. Rime and Dubwool. SD + Sacred Sword bypasses Dubwool’s Cotton Guard and Honedge’s natural typing lets it check Mr. Rime’s dual STAB and damage it with Sneak or Gyro Ball. It’s still not the best, but it’s not the worst thing in the world atm and I think D is a little too low for it.

Frillish D -> C-

Frillish is one of those mons that can check every single recent drop with Will-O-Wisp/Taunt/Hex while acting as a pretty nice spinblocker for fat balance teams. It always ends up disrupting your opponent’s team and is just a pretty nice utility mon overall. def deserves to rise a little.

Lampent Unranked -> C-

Lampent has the blessed Ghost typing making it a very good check to dubwool just like the aforementioned Pokes while also having access to Trick to neuter something on your opponent’s team. Scarf lets it revenge kill some of our strongest silvally forms (Psychic, Bug, Ice) provided they do not flame charge up and outpaces common pokemon like Rime and Non-Scarf Mane. Fire/Ghost is strong offensively and Lampent works well in the current meta so I think it should be ranked. Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1114630248

Ivysaur C -> D or Unranked

It’s kinda hard to justify using this over Roselia or Gloom. Losing the added sun turns was absolutely awful for Ivysaur and I would not really consider using this even as a late-game Sunny Day Sweeper. There is too much priority and running Eviolite to tank hits means it loses a lot of its firing power that Life Orb would otherwise provide.

Maractus C -> D or Unranked

Suffers the same problem as Ivysaur. It’s outclassed by a spikes stacker by Roselia and the late-game Sunny Day Sweeper set just gets destroyed by the abundance of new priority we got in the recent drops. I wouldn’t consider using this over any of our other better Grass types especially because this can not act as a tspikes absorber.

Vespiquen C+ -> B-

Good check to Dubwool, Falinks, and Hitmontop provided the Fighting types are not running random Rock Slide. T-Spikes setters are in an amazing position and being one of them while offering a lot of defensive utility makes me believe Vespiquen should rise. I’m always impressed by how much work Vespiquen puts in with just checking what it has to and being very fat.

Seaking C+ -> B-

Defensive Seaking with Knock/Toxic/Protect is kinda amazing for completely stopping Manectric and Raichu in their tracks. With us losing so many Pokemon that check Electric types these past couple of bans, I can definitely see Seaking not being a terrible option for a team that wants to prevent momentum. Toxic + Protect is also especially nice for weakening Gourgeist or Shiinotic for a back-up mon like Dubwool to sweep later on in the game.

Beartic B- -> C+

Beartic suffered badly from these drops. All these fighting types are making Mareanie rise in usage and the meta is just getting faster and faster leaving Beartic in the dust. Even against slow balance teams, Mareanie or Dubwool are still pretty common in those builds so it can’t really put in work versus fat either. I don’t see it doing well in the current metagame.

Eiscue B -> B-

Suffers from the same issues that Beartic has. Belly drum sets either have to decide on Zen Headbutt to hit Mareanie, or Reversal to not get walled by Steel types like Klang and Mawile. Technotop with Mach Punch is kinda becoming popular too and I usually see Eiscue get played around easily by switching hard into a special scarfer to prevent it from doing damage. Really not a great spot for Eiscue to exist in right now.

Persian B+ -> B-

I kinda don’t see this doing as much work as the past. This brand new influx of Fighting types hurt Persian so badly and Technotop just like does everything Persian wants to do but even better. Not to mention that recently ghost types just got a lot better so Persian is going to do even less work than in past metas. Sorry bud maybe you’ll become better once new drops happen in June.

Hope you guys enjoyed reading!

 

[Ranbu No Melody]

Meowstic-F from C to B

-The meta in its current state has a notable lack of specially bulky Dark Types, which means switching into Meowstic-F has some risk to it
-The abundance of Poison and Fighting types gives it significant offensive momentum
-The abundance of hazards gives it a twofold bonus, it simulteneously means its preventing opposing Poison types from coming in and removing Toxic Spikes and it can switch on an opposing Defog to make use of its excellent Competitive ability
-Its amazing Speed Tier makes it so only a handful of uninvested Pokémon outspeed it
-Its access to Trick means it is able to cripple common Specially Defensive answers such as Type: Null, as well as crippling Defensive Psychic Types such as Musharna and Beheeyem

 

[Cheezy]

This is going to be my first post ever on a Viability Rankings so I might get some things wrong and not fully understand the meta yet so if I do get some things wrong please tell me, but regardless I will still share my thoughts about four of the current drops that haven't been ranked yet.

Mr Rime to S

I think that Mr Rime is the best Pokemon in the tier right now due to the plethora of sets it can use and how much Pokemon it can check and counter because of the abundance of Fighting, Poison, and Grass types in the tier. It has a pretty good speed tier for PU, a great support and offensive move pool, and well balanced stats.

Dubwool to A+/A

Dubwool is great at only one set and that is Cotton Guard+Body Press which it is amazing at using. Fluffy is a amazing ability that helps it take 1/2 damage from contact moves, but it gets a added weakness in Fire. The lack of Fire types in the tier also helps it even more. It also has pretty good defensive stats. What is holding it back from being a S Tier for me is that it just loses to Ghost types if it doesn't have Payback and Sleep Talk is a very much needed move that helps it from just dying while it is asleep.

Hitmontop to A

Hitmontop is a great intimidate spinner as well as being a great Speed Control Pokemon with Technician. It has two great abilities, a great offensive movepool and of course it's probably most important move Rapid Spin. It also has good stats that help it tank hits and deal respectable damage back. It can also check a lot of offensive Rockers, literally every Ice type in the tier, and a lot more Pokemon.

Crustle to A/A-

Crustle can use both Rocks and Spikes and with the help of HDB it can run a fully defensive set. It can also run a Shell Smash set. Most of the time it will always do something important for you in the match. HDB+Sturdy ensures it will always be able to Shell Smash up as long it has not been chipped before. It doesn't have that good of a offensive move pool but it does have enough to get the job done. It's bulk is pretty good with 70/125/75.

As I said before, this is my first post so I will probably get something wrong, so if I do please correct me.