ssrw15 epic lord
both
both
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Project SS UU Research Week - UU RESEARCH - Week 42 Roost Hydreigon and Any sets Crobat - New System !
- Thread starter KSt3ve
- Start date
Thank you to Luirromen for catching my mistake. @TaxiCab,Sickist, zachkauffman it IS SSRW16 not SSRW15. That is my mistake, and I apologize. Please update your alts to be SSRW16.
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To anyone else who signs up, please remember this.
Hatterene I used two different hatterene sets throughout my run, CM and AV, and I think both are excellent and very underrated. The CM set is a huge threat because a lot of teams simply cannot deal with it in the long run; hatterene has the capacity to cm up and beat much of the tier bar durant, jirachi, and copperajah. When playing jirachi or jah, you can simply click mystical fire to take off more than a third each time, so you can put a ton of pressure without even cming up, and once they are removed, you can pretty much win. CM is also able to still soft check things like noivern and fighting types, so it is not without defensive utility. I experimented with leftovers at first, but I switched to big root to get more recovery with dkiss, which was really fun. CM hat destroys fatter teams with ease. The one thing holding this thing back is its speed, which allows it to get revenged by common mons like dragalge, crawdaunt, jirachi, etc. Still, this mon was fantastic and deserves more credit. Nuzzle AV is also a great mon and phenomenal role compression on BO, as you can check fightings, noivern, rotom, cm jirachi, kyurem, and so many other special threats, all in one slot. Nuzzle prevents you from being completely passive, which is pretty cool. Definitely also a great mon, I would definitely usually prefer to run Cm because of how threatening it is, but the core of rocks jirachi+av hat blanket checks a lot of the tier, and I recommend trying this on bulky offense.
Dragalge I was so optimistic that dragalge would be a slept on pick that would be pretty good when it first dropped, but having tested it before research week and during, I have to say that the mon is pretty dong. On paper, it is amazing-powerful breaker, access to tspikes, can absorb tspikes itself, gets flip turn to pivot out on things, even gets coverage options like focus blast, scald, and tbolt if you really want them. Unfortunately, it fell short in pretty much every game I used it in. There are a couple big reasons why I really don't like this thing.
First of all, the speed tier is dreadful. You're slower than every single breaker and offensive threat in the tier including (!) crawdaunt, and you can't check any of them. The big things you check are the rotoms and keldeo i guess, but the fact is, they volt/flip turn on you and then get free turns with breakers that are already difficult to deal with. The offensive attributes aren't great either-because you are so slow, you get limited opportunities every game, and because every team has a jirachi and the vast majority have a second steel or a fairy your stabs are not spammable at all and it is relatively easy to check. You also get walled by blissey, and if you are black sludge, slowking can eat one as well. The concept is that you can flip turn out on these and bring in breakers, but not many breakers get free turns on stuff like scarf jirachi, and you only get dragalge in a few times a game, so if you are just clicking flip turn every rare occasion that it comes in it just feels like a waste. Tspikes, the other big attribute, are cool, but when you set tspikes on one of your rare free turns, you are once again wasting an opportunity to break something, and tspikes really only affect like 2-3 mons max on teams right now. I just really didnt feel like dragalge was bringing something to the table that something like roserade or kyurem couldn't do.
In short, dragalge doesn't get many chances to do anything, can be a momentum sap, and is so slow that it is easy to take advantage of. I think if you wanted to make this work, the best bet would be to use semi stall of some sort because they benefit the most from tspikes and tspike removal and because maybe you can give it more opportunites and compensate for its defensive deficiencies. I swear I tried to make this work (I tried black sludge, dragon fang, specs, boots, shuca, and several different team structures) but I just wasn't satisfied at all with its performance. I used dragalge so you didn't have to yw.
I had like 6 or 7 replays to prove my points but I can't find them >:(
I'll drop some teams I laddered with the only ones i thought through were the teambuilding comp one and the heliolisk one, the other one I made super quick but its definitely usable - https://pokepast.es/fd1cb55da2938625 https://pokepast.es/44624ff98313c8ce https://pokepast.es/f3419ccb2b50ad0a
Hatterene
Hello all, here's my feedback on the pokemon I picked for this week. I used several sets at the beginning before I finally decided to go for a set that I find very powerful and rarely seen, the choice Specs set.
With 136 in Spa, Hatterene is the 4th most powerful pokemon on the special. With 57 in hp, 95 in def and 103 in Spdef, it is able to hold its own. His movepool is varied with an access to cm + draining kiss to get his life back, but he lacks powerful moves like Fleur Cannon from magearna. His speed statistic is also one of his weak points, but he can also become an asset in certain situations.
Hatterene (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
I use this team, double scarf is really cool to clean up the opposite team after the passage of Hatterene : https://pokepast.es/0db3a9b88e6c20fd
So, why the choice specs? I wanted to test this set because hatterene reminds me of magearna. Access to sweeper moves, big special attack ...If hatterene has a better special attack than mag, he has a lower speed and doesn't have access to very powerful moves, but it's enough to make big holes in the opposing team, the role of this set is to breaker.
96 in speed allows you to outspeed the classic set of doublade (44 in speed) as well as most Copperajah, Golisopod, Rhyperior.
But how far can this set break? We'll see with the dmg calc :
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 405-477 (56.7 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 372-438 (111.3 - 131.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 172 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah: 204-240 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Rhyperior: 252-297 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 178-210 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 216-254 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 180-214 (53.2 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 201-237 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 228+ Def Tentacruel: 428-506 (117.9 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 280-330 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 280-330 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 372-438 (111.3 - 131.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 172 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah: 204-240 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Rhyperior: 252-297 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 178-210 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 216-254 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 180-214 (53.2 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 201-237 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 228+ Def Tentacruel: 428-506 (117.9 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 280-330 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 280-330 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1153924543-2xw1og7betim1rqdqu47ur4o1xoa5jppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1153957281-1nv8hhrdln55cul1f0nilefs4s1fa5spw
Conclusion : Despite its special attack so high, its speed prevents it from being able to 2OHKO pokemons on the switch. Nevertheless, this pokemon is really able to destroy teams by itself by always clicking on drainking to heal itself. I think this pokemon is a nightmare for BOs, because it's bulky + can heal itself while attacking (an advantage of being slow, the heal comes after taking damage, so you're full life right after taking a hit or you get a free hit).
I'm also going to put the other sets of this pokemon that I think is viable, but I won't talk about it (not enough time, I'll let the others talk about it ^^)
https://pokepast.es/191411eed97abd52
I will also make a short comparison with sylveon specs and Gardevoir specs :
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 216-254 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 248-294 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 218-258 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While sylveon hits harder, Hatterene and Gardevoir do the same damage but Gardevoir is much faster. Hatterene's main advantage over Sylveon and Gardevoir is her Magic Bounce talent + her access to draining kiss with low speed (I've already explained why that's good) allowing her to easily place herself as a breaker + anti-sr in a team.
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Hi you all, after some laddering I got some cool sets with both Hatterene and Dragalge and I find them very cool on the actual Metagame
Hatterene
Today Im gonna make this post different from how I normally do it, not explainong what I used on specific ladder and just talk about how good results I obtained with each set
Calm Mind + Nuzzle
This set sacrifices Mystical Fire coverage to Nuzzle, amove that makes damage and always results on a paralysis, since Hatterene is waaaaay slow, I wanted something as a Speed Control, Nuzzle allows you to have a beeter 1v1 against blissey, the speed evs allow you to outspeed Adamant 252 Tyranitar after a Paralysis, the rest goes on bulk and SpA, this set is better paired with other ways of speed control from likes T-Wave Washtom, Body Slam Jirachi and Stun Spore Roserade, also you may want partenrs capable to check Steel types, mons like Skarmory can come on most of the offensive Steel types, bulky waters in general and Arcanine/Incineroar.
Calm Mind Sweeper
This is an slightly faster version of the last set, but with Fire coverage, KSt3ve talked about an spread pretty similar to this one on his Specs Hatterene, Speed evs allow you outspeed standar Doublade and base 40 mons, I preffered max bulk since I have CM to actually Set Up. CM Hatterene can actually run 3 different item in my opinion, but I would reccomend run Leftovers in most cases, Pixie Plate boost the awful 50 base power of Draining Kiss to 60, I tested if there was a big different between Pixie Plate and Big Root, and the recovey was pretty similar, but the damage on Pixie Plate was a little bit bigger. Kee Berry is an interesting choice, Hatterene has a decent bulk in general and Kee Berry lets you boost your Deefense when you recieve a Physical move, including Sesmic Toss, Kee Berry + CM + Stored Power can be good on a late game, however is a more risky set to use, since you are suceptible to any way to Haze from like Mantine or Clear Smog Gastrodon.
Talking about the other Calm Mind Sweeper, it a more bulky variant, it lets you be 4HKO by non invested Brave Bird Skarmory, always lives a CB Stone Egde from Terrakion after SR and makes easier a 1v1 against revenge killers like Krookodile
Trick Room
I guess this one is the most easy to get, set Trick Room and start to spam moves, this works better on HO builds (I like to compare it to Magearna on last generation when it used Trick Room) or Trick Room builds in general, so.... yeah, not going to explain that much xD
There are other sets that I feel could have some viability like Assault Vest with Future Sight or Aromatherapy Support, but I find them very situational
Dragalge
Im going to be pretty honest, like other mons on past weeks, I completely looked at it and tought it would be trash, my first imprission were that it would be completely outclassed by Kyurem as a Specs Draco Meteor users or outclassed by noivern as a pivot, but u dont have to judge a book just for the cover page, Dragalge is amazing imo.
Offensive T-Spikes
Dragalge has good special bulk, its capable to come on a lot of mons, it can come on both Wastom and Mowtom, is also capable to come in Sylveon and Weezing-G, however, it has the disadvantage that Jirachi is basically a counter, as it can come on any move and proceed to heal with Wish, what I wanna say is, Dragalge is capable to come on most of Hazard Removers on the tier and set up T-Spikes and KO in return on an attemp to Defog, both Rotoms dislike a modest 252 adaptability Draco Meteor, Noivern wont want to switch on a Dragon move, Mantine cant touch Dragalge and also can be forced to Roost and Defog at the same time by spamming Sludge Bomb, same history of Noivern with Flygon, Weezing-G and Skarmory even if they are inmune to one of Dragalge´s stab the lack on Special Bulk lets Dragalge punish them, prob the unique Defog user that can come on Dragalge is Defog Klefki but I didnt see any klefki on ladder. Compared to other T-Spikes setters, I find Dragalge as the best, as is capable to come on a decent number of mons, capable to punish Defog users and can pivot with Flip Turn. The speed investment allows you to outspeed Blissey and 80 speed evs Tyranitar, really cool mon to use.
Specs
If you tought Specs Draco Meteor from Kyurem was annoying, Modest Specs Draco Meteor from Dragalge is a nuke, just to give you an example, take a look on this damage calc against blissey
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 246-289 (34.4 - 40.4%) -- 45.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 294-346 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This is just an example to show the damage difference, obviusly none of this 2 would be able to beat Blissey on a normal 1v1. Specs Dragalge is a freaking nuke, Dragon Types on the tier had been completely walled by Sylveon and G-Weezing but Dragalge Poison allows to break them, however Dragalge compared to other dragons has a difficult time against Steel Types, lacks on Fire or Ground coverages, you can run Focus Blast for Steel Types, but the new metagame has Jirachi as the bulky steel type, so it would not make a big difference, but aside from Jirachi and Blissey, there is not safe switch in, Escavalier can come too, but it has been getting a lower usage recently as I feel, this set is better paired with Jirachi, since it invites washtom to switch, Wastom is also a good partner that invites stuff like Celebi to come, like Hatterene it likes steel types checks like Skarmory or Fire types, I find Miensaho a pretty good parter too, as it cheks Steel Types and invites G-Weezing to come, and via U-Turn give Dragalge a free hit.
That is all for today, feel free to try the teams or if u have a question ask me
Results by far:
Nuzzle CM Sweeper (Hatterene) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 184 SpA / 72 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Nuzzle
CM Sweeper (Hatterene) (F) @ Leftovers/Pixie Plate/ Kee Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Psychic/Stored Power
- Draining Kiss
- Mystical Fire
Bulky Calm Mind (Hatterene) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 244 HP / 124 Def / 44 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
Trick Room (Hatterene) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 184 SpA / 72 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Nuzzle
CM Sweeper (Hatterene) (F) @ Leftovers/Pixie Plate/ Kee Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Psychic/Stored Power
- Draining Kiss
- Mystical Fire
Bulky Calm Mind (Hatterene) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 244 HP / 124 Def / 44 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
Trick Room (Hatterene) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
Today Im gonna make this post different from how I normally do it, not explainong what I used on specific ladder and just talk about how good results I obtained with each set
Calm Mind + Nuzzle
This set sacrifices Mystical Fire coverage to Nuzzle, amove that makes damage and always results on a paralysis, since Hatterene is waaaaay slow, I wanted something as a Speed Control, Nuzzle allows you to have a beeter 1v1 against blissey, the speed evs allow you to outspeed Adamant 252 Tyranitar after a Paralysis, the rest goes on bulk and SpA, this set is better paired with other ways of speed control from likes T-Wave Washtom, Body Slam Jirachi and Stun Spore Roserade, also you may want partenrs capable to check Steel types, mons like Skarmory can come on most of the offensive Steel types, bulky waters in general and Arcanine/Incineroar.
Calm Mind Sweeper
This is an slightly faster version of the last set, but with Fire coverage, KSt3ve talked about an spread pretty similar to this one on his Specs Hatterene, Speed evs allow you outspeed standar Doublade and base 40 mons, I preffered max bulk since I have CM to actually Set Up. CM Hatterene can actually run 3 different item in my opinion, but I would reccomend run Leftovers in most cases, Pixie Plate boost the awful 50 base power of Draining Kiss to 60, I tested if there was a big different between Pixie Plate and Big Root, and the recovey was pretty similar, but the damage on Pixie Plate was a little bit bigger. Kee Berry is an interesting choice, Hatterene has a decent bulk in general and Kee Berry lets you boost your Deefense when you recieve a Physical move, including Sesmic Toss, Kee Berry + CM + Stored Power can be good on a late game, however is a more risky set to use, since you are suceptible to any way to Haze from like Mantine or Clear Smog Gastrodon.
Talking about the other Calm Mind Sweeper, it a more bulky variant, it lets you be 4HKO by non invested Brave Bird Skarmory, always lives a CB Stone Egde from Terrakion after SR and makes easier a 1v1 against revenge killers like Krookodile
Trick Room
I guess this one is the most easy to get, set Trick Room and start to spam moves, this works better on HO builds (I like to compare it to Magearna on last generation when it used Trick Room) or Trick Room builds in general, so.... yeah, not going to explain that much xD
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1150382341-wx5l00njrhz25vs1vhni9yf9vloc1d1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1150691486-q3zgq20ttea835jncq4ra6j218v5rorpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1150697193-1e2c489i11btyfi5isf8qxret1mtw7rpw
Just noticed that I didnt save any replay using Calm Mind sets, so, sorry xd
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1150691486-q3zgq20ttea835jncq4ra6j218v5rorpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1150697193-1e2c489i11btyfi5isf8qxret1mtw7rpw
Just noticed that I didnt save any replay using Calm Mind sets, so, sorry xd
Since I horrible lost on UU Open I dont care to share teams today, feel free to ask me any question you have about any spread :p
Trick Room: https://pokepast.es/11018886452840dc
Nuzzle: https://pokepast.es/0fe837f6d9f529bc
Calm Mind: https://pokepast.es/e5dff71f6d50725d
Trick Room: https://pokepast.es/11018886452840dc
Nuzzle: https://pokepast.es/0fe837f6d9f529bc
Calm Mind: https://pokepast.es/e5dff71f6d50725d
There are other sets that I feel could have some viability like Assault Vest with Future Sight or Aromatherapy Support, but I find them very situational
Dragalge
Offensive T-Spikes (Dragalge) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
- Flip Turn
Specs (Dragalge) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt/Focus Blast/ Hydro Pump
- Flip Turn
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
- Flip Turn
Specs (Dragalge) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt/Focus Blast/ Hydro Pump
- Flip Turn
Im going to be pretty honest, like other mons on past weeks, I completely looked at it and tought it would be trash, my first imprission were that it would be completely outclassed by Kyurem as a Specs Draco Meteor users or outclassed by noivern as a pivot, but u dont have to judge a book just for the cover page, Dragalge is amazing imo.
Offensive T-Spikes
Dragalge has good special bulk, its capable to come on a lot of mons, it can come on both Wastom and Mowtom, is also capable to come in Sylveon and Weezing-G, however, it has the disadvantage that Jirachi is basically a counter, as it can come on any move and proceed to heal with Wish, what I wanna say is, Dragalge is capable to come on most of Hazard Removers on the tier and set up T-Spikes and KO in return on an attemp to Defog, both Rotoms dislike a modest 252 adaptability Draco Meteor, Noivern wont want to switch on a Dragon move, Mantine cant touch Dragalge and also can be forced to Roost and Defog at the same time by spamming Sludge Bomb, same history of Noivern with Flygon, Weezing-G and Skarmory even if they are inmune to one of Dragalge´s stab the lack on Special Bulk lets Dragalge punish them, prob the unique Defog user that can come on Dragalge is Defog Klefki but I didnt see any klefki on ladder. Compared to other T-Spikes setters, I find Dragalge as the best, as is capable to come on a decent number of mons, capable to punish Defog users and can pivot with Flip Turn. The speed investment allows you to outspeed Blissey and 80 speed evs Tyranitar, really cool mon to use.
Specs
If you tought Specs Draco Meteor from Kyurem was annoying, Modest Specs Draco Meteor from Dragalge is a nuke, just to give you an example, take a look on this damage calc against blissey
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 246-289 (34.4 - 40.4%) -- 45.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 294-346 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This is just an example to show the damage difference, obviusly none of this 2 would be able to beat Blissey on a normal 1v1. Specs Dragalge is a freaking nuke, Dragon Types on the tier had been completely walled by Sylveon and G-Weezing but Dragalge Poison allows to break them, however Dragalge compared to other dragons has a difficult time against Steel Types, lacks on Fire or Ground coverages, you can run Focus Blast for Steel Types, but the new metagame has Jirachi as the bulky steel type, so it would not make a big difference, but aside from Jirachi and Blissey, there is not safe switch in, Escavalier can come too, but it has been getting a lower usage recently as I feel, this set is better paired with Jirachi, since it invites washtom to switch, Wastom is also a good partner that invites stuff like Celebi to come, like Hatterene it likes steel types checks like Skarmory or Fire types, I find Miensaho a pretty good parter too, as it cheks Steel Types and invites G-Weezing to come, and via U-Turn give Dragalge a free hit.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1151596763-wveuupynq2ph4f89y4s8is54ba5gytmpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1151604729-3iece3qnig16092ugi7d22eqk1o8rxapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1151679671-y1svl4qpafxjj369zqqiz6rqebq1h0epw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1152798688-z6i8wwkeu0ayyvi2iw8da69qli4gnfjpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1152960681-97f1ik89ek65f2smovvrqzpnol0461gpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1153707098-9tjeo20p56j79mc4nqhc0w0pq5pgexwpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1153690858-dk3azeilmtqei3s9iqjf4rxe2of727mpw
Even if I lost on some of them Dragalge makes a good show.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1151604729-3iece3qnig16092ugi7d22eqk1o8rxapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1151679671-y1svl4qpafxjj369zqqiz6rqebq1h0epw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1152798688-z6i8wwkeu0ayyvi2iw8da69qli4gnfjpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1152960681-97f1ik89ek65f2smovvrqzpnol0461gpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1153707098-9tjeo20p56j79mc4nqhc0w0pq5pgexwpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1153690858-dk3azeilmtqei3s9iqjf4rxe2of727mpw
Even if I lost on some of them Dragalge makes a good show.
That is all for today, feel free to try the teams or if u have a question ask me
Results by far:
Free Heracross or Talonflame for Next week imo
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Alright, so I used Dragagle this week. I wrote a big long essay but smogon decided to coordinate with windows updates and fucked it all up, so its gone and you get discount review.
https://pokepast.es/d499e24003d5e6c5
The first set I used was Offensive Tspikes, which ngl was kinda hot trash. Dragagle lost to the majority of defoggers, either not punishing any momentum grabs by the opponent or just doing like 12% with its supposed "amazing power". This mon disappointed me more then I disappoint my family, which is hard to get past. While its typing is okay defensively, you're so strapped for moveslots you cant really abuse it that well, so offensive tspikes is not the way to go. Maybe defensive tspikes wouldve been better.
https://pokepast.es/146905f8ecd4d390
This set was slightly less hot trash. Specs is pretty powerful after trying it out for around 5 games. While it's disheartening defense lets it get pushed over by a slight poke, if you can manage getting it in safely, its far scarier for your opponent. Dragon/Poison/Fighting coverage is not terrible in the current meta, and anything that resists all 3 gets fuckin dropped by specs Draco, or gets Flipped on. Still slow as hell and punishable as hell. Overall, slightly better then tspikes but still like a C rank mon.
Overall, this mon was kinda eh imo. While it seemed cool in practice, it has all the traits that could possibly make it hot trash in the metagame. Maybe if it shifts more towards fat fairies, Drag would do better, but it can't keep up in an Offensive Metagame like this.
tl;dr - 3/10 - slow, physically frail, useless vs rachi and most defoggers, but packs a powerful punch is equipped with the right moves and tools.
https://pokepast.es/d499e24003d5e6c5
The first set I used was Offensive Tspikes, which ngl was kinda hot trash. Dragagle lost to the majority of defoggers, either not punishing any momentum grabs by the opponent or just doing like 12% with its supposed "amazing power". This mon disappointed me more then I disappoint my family, which is hard to get past. While its typing is okay defensively, you're so strapped for moveslots you cant really abuse it that well, so offensive tspikes is not the way to go. Maybe defensive tspikes wouldve been better.
https://pokepast.es/146905f8ecd4d390
This set was slightly less hot trash. Specs is pretty powerful after trying it out for around 5 games. While it's disheartening defense lets it get pushed over by a slight poke, if you can manage getting it in safely, its far scarier for your opponent. Dragon/Poison/Fighting coverage is not terrible in the current meta, and anything that resists all 3 gets fuckin dropped by specs Draco, or gets Flipped on. Still slow as hell and punishable as hell. Overall, slightly better then tspikes but still like a C rank mon.
Overall, this mon was kinda eh imo. While it seemed cool in practice, it has all the traits that could possibly make it hot trash in the metagame. Maybe if it shifts more towards fat fairies, Drag would do better, but it can't keep up in an Offensive Metagame like this.
tl;dr - 3/10 - slow, physically frail, useless vs rachi and most defoggers, but packs a powerful punch is equipped with the right moves and tools.
Alright, thank you to everyone for your patience and sorry for the delays. Our winner for week 16 is KSt3ve! Congratulations!
Dragalge had mixed reviews. The two sets tested were Offensive T-Spikes, and Choice Specs. The biggest downside commented was it's dreadful speed, while making it a great pivot, it struggles to outspeed things it may want to beat. As a T-spikes setter, without coverage in thunderbolt it may have trouble beating some defoggers such as Skarmory. Choice Specs increases the damage output of Dragalge's STABs a lot, making it very hard to switch into, but again its slow speed hinders it quite a lot. With the offensive state of the metagame it struggles to keep up, despite its potential utility.
Hatterene however had great reviews overall. With many potential sets such as Assault Vest, Calm Mind, Trick Room, or Specs, it leaves it very hard to predict what it could run. It's great coverage and power makes it hard to switch into, but with its best fairy stab being Draining Kiss and Dazzling Gleam, it does lack there. A big thing Hatterene has over other psychic or fairies is the move Nuzzle, which allows it to paralyze opponents that may try to switch in to cripple them for the rest of the game.
Now we'll move straight onto Week 17 with two new mons to research!
Our first choice is Porygon-Z. A new addition to UU that we feel has been underexplored. With it's very high base 135 special attack, along with great abilities it has very high damage output. With the choice of Setup sets, or Choice items, along with great coverage what is the best way to use Porygon-Z?
Starmie for the same reason as Porygon-z Has been chosen as our second mon of the week. Being a water/psychic typing it faces heavy competition from Slowking, though unlike Slowking has the ability to remove Hazards and is much faster, allowing it outspeed troubling Fighting types such as Terrakion. How does it fair in this meta?
In order to participate you must do the following:
Dragalge had mixed reviews. The two sets tested were Offensive T-Spikes, and Choice Specs. The biggest downside commented was it's dreadful speed, while making it a great pivot, it struggles to outspeed things it may want to beat. As a T-spikes setter, without coverage in thunderbolt it may have trouble beating some defoggers such as Skarmory. Choice Specs increases the damage output of Dragalge's STABs a lot, making it very hard to switch into, but again its slow speed hinders it quite a lot. With the offensive state of the metagame it struggles to keep up, despite its potential utility.
Hatterene however had great reviews overall. With many potential sets such as Assault Vest, Calm Mind, Trick Room, or Specs, it leaves it very hard to predict what it could run. It's great coverage and power makes it hard to switch into, but with its best fairy stab being Draining Kiss and Dazzling Gleam, it does lack there. A big thing Hatterene has over other psychic or fairies is the move Nuzzle, which allows it to paralyze opponents that may try to switch in to cripple them for the rest of the game.
Now we'll move straight onto Week 17 with two new mons to research!
Porygon-Z @
Ability:
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any Nature
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any Nature
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Starmie @
Ability:
EVs:
any Nature
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any Nature
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Our first choice is Porygon-Z. A new addition to UU that we feel has been underexplored. With it's very high base 135 special attack, along with great abilities it has very high damage output. With the choice of Setup sets, or Choice items, along with great coverage what is the best way to use Porygon-Z?
Starmie for the same reason as Porygon-z Has been chosen as our second mon of the week. Being a water/psychic typing it faces heavy competition from Slowking, though unlike Slowking has the ability to remove Hazards and is much faster, allowing it outspeed troubling Fighting types such as Terrakion. How does it fair in this meta?
In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW17 Daiyaga or SSRW17 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
Hi All, here's my feedback on Porygon-Z, a pokemon that I'm finding very strong right now in the metagame.
Porygon-Z
Nasty Plot + Life Orb
+
So, first of all, I'm going to talk about the set I find the strongest, the Nasty plot + life Orb set.
This set is very strong because after a nasty plot, Porygon-Z can easily sweep a slow team. Its correct 85/70/75 bulk allows it to be placed on most pokemons in the tier that don't have a fighting attack :
I find this set very strong in HO sticky offends because its speed of 90 is a bit low. We can also use a double dance set, but I'll talk about that later. The goal of this pokemon in Offense is to either sweep at the end of the game or to break a team, because Porygon-Z is able to pass the skarm-bliss core by itself , which makes the pokemon very strong in HO, so it allows you to open the way to a sweep of your physical or special set up depending on the weakness of the opposing team. In addition, porygon-Z has a 20% chance of burning/freezing/paralyzing your opponent's pokemon.
Dark Pulse is useful for jirachi / ghost type.
Another great strength of Porygon-Z is that the normal + dark pulse attack combot is only resisted by a few pokemon, only Tyranitar Spdef can really stop it (you can find the dmg calc)
Let's talk a little bit now about the team I played for and how they get the most out of Porigon-Z and its ability to break the skarm-blissey combo.
https://pokepast.es/943d3cc7de83f364
As explained above, porygon's goal is to kill blissey or skarm to pave the way for Blastoise or Necrozma respectively.
Then, Blastoire Shell Smash or Necrozma Dragon Dance can sweep much more easily.
+
Now let's talk about the Choice specs set, it's in my opinion, the 2nd best set from Porigon-Z. This set is much easier to use in more bulky teams or with volturn, contrary to the NP Set, which needs more partners to take advantage of its ability to break a team. The nature depends on the team you play Porygon-Z with, the only problem with playing Modest Porygon-Z is that it doesn't outspeed pokemons like Heracross.
This pokemon can easily destroy badly prepared teams. A team with volturn can easily bring porygon-Z to the field and click Tri-Attack / Dark Pulse without too much trouble.
https://pokepast.es/727f767afb34bec4
This has 2 uturn + Teleport to bring Porygon-Z to the field safely. His goal is to abuse skarm with Porygon-Z to either catch a kill or greatly weaken the skarm, which opens the way to tsareena, scarf Mienshao and sd Doublade. Here's a good example
However, it's more difficult for this set to pass the skarm - bliss combo
I would say that the advantages of this set is to be able to do a lot of damage without taking a step back or needing to place yourself, but you can pass the defensive cores less well with pokemons like Ttar Spdef.
+
(this is rock polish that you can find on amazon)
So, let's talk about this very powerful set, I think it's the 3rd best set of porygon-Z for several reasons, despite its ability to sweep teams without bulky pokemons on the special, I find it's long to set up to allow the set up of this pokemon, we must manage to place the 2 screens, then place porygon-Z on a pokemon with no combat attack (otherwise we get 2HKO) and finally we must place a rock polish + nasty plot. I don't find this set as profitable as the first 2, but that's my personal opinion.
wuhoodude explains very well how this set can be very strong (+ he has some good replays that I don't have) on this post.
+
Okay, so this set is useful for speed control in a team. With 90 in base speed, porygon-z overtakes scarf Gardevoir, scarf Chandelure, scarf Heracross...
As for the choice specs set, trick is an option to handicap the defensive cores. As a last move, nasty plot allows porygon-Z to become a windcon / set up sweeper.
I think that when the metagame will be more offensive, this set will be much more played because porygon-z has a good speed base + a very strong special attack.
+
For this set, I wanted to test if recover was still useful on porygon-Z (it was strong with the Z move in gen 7). I don't really think recover is as useful nowadays, especially since porygon-Z is not as bulky as when it had its Z move. However, with recover, porygon can set up on pokemons like non status blissey, umbreon, Weezing-galar ...
https://www.pkst.net/#!/battle?id=battle-gen8uu-1158632067 (use this site when you forgot to save the replay ^^, thank me later)
Conclusion : Porygon-z is an excellent breaker, able to pass defensive cores such as the skarm-bliss core by itself. It is also an excellent set up sweeper with the double dance set and finally, this guy can destroyed balance team by just clicking Tri Attack
That's it for everything, don't hesitate if you have any questions and I hope you appreciate it (it took me some time, I appreciate any support, thank
)
Porygon-Z
Nasty Plot + Life Orb
NP + lo (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Substitute
- Dark Pulse
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Substitute
- Dark Pulse
So, first of all, I'm going to talk about the set I find the strongest, the Nasty plot + life Orb set.
This set is very strong because after a nasty plot, Porygon-Z can easily sweep a slow team. Its correct 85/70/75 bulk allows it to be placed on most pokemons in the tier that don't have a fighting attack :
252+ Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Porygon-Z: 271-319 (87.1 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Porygon-Z: 270-318 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 280-330 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Porygon-Z: 270-318 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 280-330 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
I find this set very strong in HO sticky offends because its speed of 90 is a bit low. We can also use a double dance set, but I'll talk about that later. The goal of this pokemon in Offense is to either sweep at the end of the game or to break a team, because Porygon-Z is able to pass the skarm-bliss core by itself , which makes the pokemon very strong in HO, so it allows you to open the way to a sweep of your physical or special set up depending on the weakness of the opposing team. In addition, porygon-Z has a 20% chance of burning/freezing/paralyzing your opponent's pokemon.
Dark Pulse is useful for jirachi / ghost type.
Another great strength of Porygon-Z is that the normal + dark pulse attack combot is only resisted by a few pokemon, only Tyranitar Spdef can really stop it (you can find the dmg calc)
Let's talk a little bit now about the team I played for and how they get the most out of Porigon-Z and its ability to break the skarm-blissey combo.
https://pokepast.es/943d3cc7de83f364
As explained above, porygon's goal is to kill blissey or skarm to pave the way for Blastoise or Necrozma respectively.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 359-424 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 156-185 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 311-367 (93.1 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 156-185 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 311-367 (93.1 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Then, Blastoire Shell Smash or Necrozma Dragon Dance can sweep much more easily.
Choice Specs
Choice Specs (Porygon-Z) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Dark Pulse
- Hyper Beam / Nasty Plot
- Trick
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Dark Pulse
- Hyper Beam / Nasty Plot
- Trick
Now let's talk about the Choice specs set, it's in my opinion, the 2nd best set from Porigon-Z. This set is much easier to use in more bulky teams or with volturn, contrary to the NP Set, which needs more partners to take advantage of its ability to break a team. The nature depends on the team you play Porygon-Z with, the only problem with playing Modest Porygon-Z is that it doesn't outspeed pokemons like Heracross.
This pokemon can easily destroy badly prepared teams. A team with volturn can easily bring porygon-Z to the field and click Tri-Attack / Dark Pulse without too much trouble.
https://pokepast.es/727f767afb34bec4
This has 2 uturn + Teleport to bring Porygon-Z to the field safely. His goal is to abuse skarm with Porygon-Z to either catch a kill or greatly weaken the skarm, which opens the way to tsareena, scarf Mienshao and sd Doublade. Here's a good example
However, it's more difficult for this set to pass the skarm - bliss combo
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 208-246 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 179-211 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- On other pokemon :
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 194-230 (48 - 56.9%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 179-211 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- On other pokemon :
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 194-230 (48 - 56.9%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I would say that the advantages of this set is to be able to do a lot of damage without taking a step back or needing to place yourself, but you can pass the defensive cores less well with pokemons like Ttar Spdef.
Double dance + Life Orb
Double dance lo (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb / Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
So, let's talk about this very powerful set, I think it's the 3rd best set of porygon-Z for several reasons, despite its ability to sweep teams without bulky pokemons on the special, I find it's long to set up to allow the set up of this pokemon, we must manage to place the 2 screens, then place porygon-Z on a pokemon with no combat attack (otherwise we get 2HKO) and finally we must place a rock polish + nasty plot. I don't find this set as profitable as the first 2, but that's my personal opinion.
wuhoodude explains very well how this set can be very strong (+ he has some good replays that I don't have) on this post.
Choice Scarf
Choice Scarf (Porygon-Z) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Trick
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Trick
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
Okay, so this set is useful for speed control in a team. With 90 in base speed, porygon-z overtakes scarf Gardevoir, scarf Chandelure, scarf Heracross...
As for the choice specs set, trick is an option to handicap the defensive cores. As a last move, nasty plot allows porygon-Z to become a windcon / set up sweeper.
I think that when the metagame will be more offensive, this set will be much more played because porygon-z has a good speed base + a very strong special attack.
Recover + Life Orb
Reco + lo (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Tri Attack
- Nasty Plot / Substitute
- Dark Pulse
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Tri Attack
- Nasty Plot / Substitute
- Dark Pulse
For this set, I wanted to test if recover was still useful on porygon-Z (it was strong with the Z move in gen 7). I don't really think recover is as useful nowadays, especially since porygon-Z is not as bulky as when it had its Z move. However, with recover, porygon can set up on pokemons like non status blissey, umbreon, Weezing-galar ...
https://www.pkst.net/#!/battle?id=battle-gen8uu-1158632067 (use this site when you forgot to save the replay ^^, thank me later)
Conclusion : Porygon-z is an excellent breaker, able to pass defensive cores such as the skarm-bliss core by itself. It is also an excellent set up sweeper with the double dance set and finally, this guy can destroyed balance team by just clicking Tri Attack
That's it for everything, don't hesitate if you have any questions and I hope you appreciate it (it took me some time, I appreciate any support, thank
)Attachments
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
I didn't use a RW week alt but I have a lot of experience with both of these Pokemon on the ladder and nobody has talked about Starmie yet so I wanted to post on it. Specifically, I want to talk about three things: 1) what Starmie set I've been using, 2) how I've been building with it, and 3) how effective is Starmie in it's job.
Starmie set I've been using
How I've been building with Starmie
Why I think Starmie is very effective in it's roles
Starmie set I've been using
bizzare star (Starmie) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 32 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Psyshock
- Recover
This is a basic Rapid Spin set. Your typing, Speed, and average bulk allows you to beat a whole range of threats. Importantly, you can Spin against or badly threaten the most well known hazard setters like Skarmory, Krookodile, Terrakion, Weezing-Galar, Roserade, Tentacruel and Palossand. Besides just clearing hazards though, you have important resistances which lets you be a solid counter to Keldeo - which is why Psyshock is selected over Toxic, Toxic Starmie could lose to Sub CM Keldeo. The EVs just out speed Lycanroc-Dusk, another important offensive Pokemon you check, while giving you more bulk, an Attack boost for opposing Download Pokemon, and some SpA to score more damage against Pokemon like Venusaur. Heavy Duty Boots is a great item for Starmie as it can ignore hazards and generally keep the item as very few Pokemon can get a Knock Off in versus you. Natural Cure is better than Analytic for this primarily defensive set.
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 32 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Psyshock
- Recover
This is a basic Rapid Spin set. Your typing, Speed, and average bulk allows you to beat a whole range of threats. Importantly, you can Spin against or badly threaten the most well known hazard setters like Skarmory, Krookodile, Terrakion, Weezing-Galar, Roserade, Tentacruel and Palossand. Besides just clearing hazards though, you have important resistances which lets you be a solid counter to Keldeo - which is why Psyshock is selected over Toxic, Toxic Starmie could lose to Sub CM Keldeo. The EVs just out speed Lycanroc-Dusk, another important offensive Pokemon you check, while giving you more bulk, an Attack boost for opposing Download Pokemon, and some SpA to score more damage against Pokemon like Venusaur. Heavy Duty Boots is a great item for Starmie as it can ignore hazards and generally keep the item as very few Pokemon can get a Knock Off in versus you. Natural Cure is better than Analytic for this primarily defensive set.
How I've been building with Starmie
https://pokepast.es/1354202ca0d371cd this is the main team I've been using.
It's an offensive Volt-Turn but with important defensive elements that Starmie contributes to. Having such a fast Spinner means that I don't open up the team to many attackers, the only attackers that can really switch into Starmie are Celebi and Crawdaunt and the latter fears Scald burns. Unfortunately the team doesn't do a great job of stopping them, but you can see I have to pack strongs checks to them like Rotom-C for Crawdaunt and U-Turn Jirachi for Celebi.
The team really appreciates Starmie's great hazard control because it's Volt-Turn and has to switch around a lot. It also lets Weezing-Galar run Toxic Spikes over Defog, which gives the team even more power and Synergizes well with Wish+Protect Jirachi.
Starmie from a typing and movepool perspective obviously faces competition from Slowking, which is also significantly bulkier, but Starmie brings to the table Speed and Rapid Spin, both of which this team needs.
Other important pieces of synergy with Starmie include:
It's an offensive Volt-Turn but with important defensive elements that Starmie contributes to. Having such a fast Spinner means that I don't open up the team to many attackers, the only attackers that can really switch into Starmie are Celebi and Crawdaunt and the latter fears Scald burns. Unfortunately the team doesn't do a great job of stopping them, but you can see I have to pack strongs checks to them like Rotom-C for Crawdaunt and U-Turn Jirachi for Celebi.
The team really appreciates Starmie's great hazard control because it's Volt-Turn and has to switch around a lot. It also lets Weezing-Galar run Toxic Spikes over Defog, which gives the team even more power and Synergizes well with Wish+Protect Jirachi.
Starmie from a typing and movepool perspective obviously faces competition from Slowking, which is also significantly bulkier, but Starmie brings to the table Speed and Rapid Spin, both of which this team needs.
Other important pieces of synergy with Starmie include:
- Tyranitar + Starmie beats Charizard because Charizard generally needs Sun to beat Starmie and other waters
- Offensive Weezing Galar + Starmie works well to combat fighting types, if I didn't have Starmie to check most fighting types I'd probably have to run more defense on Weezing
Why I think Starmie is very effective in it's roles
To be clear, I think Starmie has two main roles in the tier: providing very reliable Rapid Spin support against 70%+ of the tiers hazard setters and using the unique combination of Speed + Fire/Fighting/Water resistance to check or counter important Pokemon like Keldeo and Lycanroc.
It's really effective at being a Spinner just because fortunate match ups. It just so happens, Toxic Spikes Weezing and Spikes/SR Skarmory are at all time highs, frequently paired without Ghost types (which do not safely switch into Starmie anyways) so Starmie can spin very well in the meta.
115 Speed tier and a Fighting resistance is probably the best it's ever been in UU too with Lycanroc Dusk getting Close Combat.
Here's a game where Starmie does work, largely keeping hazards off, countering Starmie and Tentacruel, and looming large to ensure I don't immediately lose to Lycanroc. If it was slower like Slowking or just a generic bulky water, it wouldn't have been able to stop the opponent's Tentacruel from spinning for example on turn 30.
Starmie is definitely an extremely good choice in the meta right now if you need hazard control and the resistances Water types normally bring.
It's really effective at being a Spinner just because fortunate match ups. It just so happens, Toxic Spikes Weezing and Spikes/SR Skarmory are at all time highs, frequently paired without Ghost types (which do not safely switch into Starmie anyways) so Starmie can spin very well in the meta.
115 Speed tier and a Fighting resistance is probably the best it's ever been in UU too with Lycanroc Dusk getting Close Combat.
Here's a game where Starmie does work, largely keeping hazards off, countering Starmie and Tentacruel, and looming large to ensure I don't immediately lose to Lycanroc. If it was slower like Slowking or just a generic bulky water, it wouldn't have been able to stop the opponent's Tentacruel from spinning for example on turn 30.
Starmie is definitely an extremely good choice in the meta right now if you need hazard control and the resistances Water types normally bring.
Hello everyone. For all of you who have been waiting for Research Week to return, i'm sorry about that. I should have posted or given some sort of notice. Though before I continue, I have a few announcements to make. I'm very sad to say that Daiyaga will no longer be hosting Research Week with me. So i'll be taking over as the main host until I find a new person to co-host along with me. I'll be doing my best to get this back up and running as it was, so without further ado, let's do a quick recap before getting into the next week!
As the only one who signed up and wrote, our winner for the last week is KSt3ve! Congratulations!
Porygon-Z is a potent pokemon with a multitude of sets that could be used. WIth Nasty Plot it can become a scary breaker, or use Choice Specs to add immediate power. Along with it's great choice in abilities, it allows Porygon-Z to be a threat on many offensive playstyles.
Thanks to pokemonisfun for the information on Starmie. It's a very effective rapid spinner, one of the best we have in the tiers. With it's combination of high speed and typing, it allows it to check many of the tiers top threats such as Terrakion, Skarmory, or Galarian Weezing.
And now we're back onto our next week! Week 18 is on!
Our first choice will be Mudsdale! A ground type rocker that has really been picking up in the UU meta due to its ability to check powerful threats such as Jirachi, Lycanrock-Dusk, and Bisharp thanks to it's ability Stamina.
We have returned with Tyranitar in one of it's more unexplored sets, being Dragon Dance. I left in Rock Polish as an option as it is another option for setup that's lesser used. With it being able to check prominent mons like Noivern for offensive teams, how good is it compared to it's more defensive sets?
In order to participate you must do the following:
As the only one who signed up and wrote, our winner for the last week is KSt3ve! Congratulations!
Porygon-Z is a potent pokemon with a multitude of sets that could be used. WIth Nasty Plot it can become a scary breaker, or use Choice Specs to add immediate power. Along with it's great choice in abilities, it allows Porygon-Z to be a threat on many offensive playstyles.
Thanks to pokemonisfun for the information on Starmie. It's a very effective rapid spinner, one of the best we have in the tiers. With it's combination of high speed and typing, it allows it to check many of the tiers top threats such as Terrakion, Skarmory, or Galarian Weezing.
And now we're back onto our next week! Week 18 is on!
Mudsdale @
Ability: Stamina
EVs:
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Ability: Stamina
EVs:
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Tyranitar @
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs:
any Nature
- Dragon Dance / Rock Polish
-
-
-
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs:
any Nature
- Dragon Dance / Rock Polish
-
-
-
Our first choice will be Mudsdale! A ground type rocker that has really been picking up in the UU meta due to its ability to check powerful threats such as Jirachi, Lycanrock-Dusk, and Bisharp thanks to it's ability Stamina.
We have returned with Tyranitar in one of it's more unexplored sets, being Dragon Dance. I left in Rock Polish as an option as it is another option for setup that's lesser used. With it being able to check prominent mons like Noivern for offensive teams, how good is it compared to it's more defensive sets?
In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW18 Draconic or SSRW18 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
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This is SSRW18 Tartarsauce reporting for duty o7. I'll be looking into Tyranitar.
Ssrw18 little maths with this damn horse
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(I'm going to do it fairly quickly, I've had little time this week (school and other stuff) )
Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Heavy Slam
- Body Press
Mudsdale is a pokemon I enjoyed playing with, it is one of the few viable defensive ground types in UU. His main competitor is Palossand, who has an interesting defensive double type and a care move. Where Mudsdale is better than Palossand is that he is not passive and with the combination of Stamina + Body press, this pokemon can hit back quite violently.
Mudsdale is therefore able to wall / take advantage of pokemons like Cobalion, Krookodile, Lycanroc-Dusk, Talonflame, Flygon ... as well as most pokemons tapping on the physique :
All these pokemons, some of which are top-tiers, don't want to take a body press after a boost in defence of Mudsdale, but there is then the risk of taking a drug by going on his resistance fight.
I would also just like to talk about an other Mudsdale sets that I find/ would find useful in UU :
+
Rest Talk (Mudsdale) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake / Body Press
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Body Press
With the disappearance of Skarmory, Hatterene and Kyurem, this set seems to me rather interesting as a wincond. Only Wezing-galar would be immune. Moreover, Mudsdale doesn't fear Toxic or wow anymore thanks to rest.
Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Heavy Slam
- Body Press
Mudsdale is a pokemon I enjoyed playing with, it is one of the few viable defensive ground types in UU. His main competitor is Palossand, who has an interesting defensive double type and a care move. Where Mudsdale is better than Palossand is that he is not passive and with the combination of Stamina + Body press, this pokemon can hit back quite violently.
Mudsdale is therefore able to wall / take advantage of pokemons like Cobalion, Krookodile, Lycanroc-Dusk, Talonflame, Flygon ... as well as most pokemons tapping on the physique :
252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- 51.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- 51.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 227-268 (56.1 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gale Wings Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 103-123 (25.4 - 30.4%) -- 0.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- 51.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 227-268 (56.1 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gale Wings Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 103-123 (25.4 - 30.4%) -- 0.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
All these pokemons, some of which are top-tiers, don't want to take a body press after a boost in defence of Mudsdale, but there is then the risk of taking a drug by going on his resistance fight.
I would also just like to talk about an other Mudsdale sets that I find/ would find useful in UU :
Rest Talk (Mudsdale) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake / Body Press
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Body Press
With the disappearance of Skarmory, Hatterene and Kyurem, this set seems to me rather interesting as a wincond. Only Wezing-galar would be immune. Moreover, Mudsdale doesn't fear Toxic or wow anymore thanks to rest.
I mainly toyed with two Ttar sets:
Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake/Fire Blast
and;
I definitely had way more fun with the latter set because it stopped a Polteageist- once
yay? Between some irl stuff this week and the 4 insufferable/hot garbage teams I made, I don't have a lot to show except for 1 Ttar sweep on an HO team. The basic idea was to abuse paralysis and then set up ftw. The main trouble with offensive Tyranitar was it had trouble breaking past Skarmory. Admittedly, I never got around to using the fire blast variant on the DD set but included it anyway as it looks usable on paper. Personally I think the defensive sets or choice band would have been better suited for the new meta, had it stayed in UU. I just found it a chore to set up a dragon dance and do Ttar things. I will say, however, Chople berry is a natural choice for the first set and worked a few times to save my hide.
Overall, this was another exercise to try and improve my team building skills outside of using Flygon on every team, just like the Barraskewda research week. To conclude, I still have lots of improving to do. 'Twas a humbling laddering experience indeed.
Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake/Fire Blast
and;
Tyranitar @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rock Polish
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rock Polish
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
I definitely had way more fun with the latter set because it stopped a Polteageist- once
yay? Between some irl stuff this week and the 4 insufferable/hot garbage teams I made, I don't have a lot to show except for 1 Ttar sweep on an HO team. The basic idea was to abuse paralysis and then set up ftw. The main trouble with offensive Tyranitar was it had trouble breaking past Skarmory. Admittedly, I never got around to using the fire blast variant on the DD set but included it anyway as it looks usable on paper. Personally I think the defensive sets or choice band would have been better suited for the new meta, had it stayed in UU. I just found it a chore to set up a dragon dance and do Ttar things. I will say, however, Chople berry is a natural choice for the first set and worked a few times to save my hide.Overall, this was another exercise to try and improve my team building skills outside of using Flygon on every team, just like the Barraskewda research week. To conclude, I still have lots of improving to do. 'Twas a humbling laddering experience indeed.
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Thank you to the both of you who posted! I know suspects leave Research Week in a weird time so again, thank you! Our winner for this week is Codsauce! I have one more announcement to make, after lots of consideration i'd like to give a warm welcome to my new co-host KSt3ve! I think he'll be a great addition, so you'll be seeing more of him around.
Mudsdale was found to be a reliable defensive ground in the meta, it's biggest rival being Palossand. While it doesn't have recovery, it's high physical bulk and stamina lets it take on the tiers physical attackers such as Cobalion and Lycanroc easily.
Dragon Dance Tyranitar was hard to use when Skarmory and Jirachi were still in the tier. It's speed was very crippling to the set, making it hard to get going without help from paralysis or extra bulk from screens. Along with the fact that fighting types are so common in the tier, while its dangerous, doesn't easily work.
Now with that out of the way, we have new shifts, and a new meta on our hands so lets get right onto the next week!
For our first pick, one of the newest introduced mons in gen 8, the mythical monkey Zarude! While it has a lackluster ability, it's stats highly make up for that. With great options such as Close Combat, Iron Tail, U-turn, and Bulk Up. It's Grass/Dark typing allows it to check many prominent threats such as Rotom-Wash, Polteageist, and Celebi, how will it preform in the post-shifts meta?
Slowbro is another new addition, the physically defensive brother to Slowking. While similar in some ways, its higher physical defense allows it to better check the physical attackers of the tier, along with other unique options such as Iron Defense+Body Press. Will Slowbro be able to outshine Slowking?
In order to participate you must do the following:
Mudsdale was found to be a reliable defensive ground in the meta, it's biggest rival being Palossand. While it doesn't have recovery, it's high physical bulk and stamina lets it take on the tiers physical attackers such as Cobalion and Lycanroc easily.
Dragon Dance Tyranitar was hard to use when Skarmory and Jirachi were still in the tier. It's speed was very crippling to the set, making it hard to get going without help from paralysis or extra bulk from screens. Along with the fact that fighting types are so common in the tier, while its dangerous, doesn't easily work.
Now with that out of the way, we have new shifts, and a new meta on our hands so lets get right onto the next week!
Zarude @
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs:
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs:
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Slowbro @
Ability: Regenerator
EVs:
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Ability: Regenerator
EVs:
any Nature
-
-
-
-
For our first pick, one of the newest introduced mons in gen 8, the mythical monkey Zarude! While it has a lackluster ability, it's stats highly make up for that. With great options such as Close Combat, Iron Tail, U-turn, and Bulk Up. It's Grass/Dark typing allows it to check many prominent threats such as Rotom-Wash, Polteageist, and Celebi, how will it preform in the post-shifts meta?
Slowbro is another new addition, the physically defensive brother to Slowking. While similar in some ways, its higher physical defense allows it to better check the physical attackers of the tier, along with other unique options such as Iron Defense+Body Press. Will Slowbro be able to outshine Slowking?
In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW19 Draconic or SSRW19 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
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SSRW19 Kanay with Zarude
