Resource SS UU Viability Ranking Thread V2

[Hilomilo]

thank you to HotFuzzBall for this beautiful banner!​

Welcome to the SS UU Viability Ranking Thread!

Here, our goal is to sort every Pokemon with viability in the SS UU metagame into ranks based on their specific value in the tier. Anyone and everyone is encouraged to post their thoughts regarding the rankings, which will then be discussed by our viability team when putting updates together. In updating the thread, we do our best to refine the rankings to what most accurately represents the metagame. Updates do not occur on a scheduled basis, and will instead happen when the metagame has developed to a point that several accurate changes can be made.

Host: Hilomilo

The main idea of the ranking thread is to group each UU-viable Pokemon into 'tiers' that go in order, from S to C-. Below are general descriptions of what you should expect of Pokemon found in specific ranks.

Ranking Descriptions

S Rank describes Pokemon that provide dominant or multifaceted presences within the metagame. Whether it's through offensive, defensive, or supportive roles, S-ranked Pokemon perform at a top level of consistency, provide excellent utility and/or versatility, and prove key in shaping the metagame's trends and patterns.

In the A+ and A ranks reside Pokemon that are also defining but don't quite provide the same extent of splashability, utility, or centralization as what's in S. A- and B+ describe Pokemon that have solid places in the tier, but aren't as necessarily defining or consistent despite making their presences known. B is generally the lowest rank in which Pokemon with solidified niches in the tier can be found. In B- and C+ lie Pokemon with defined niches that may run into more restrictions that prevent consistent usage, as well as Pokemon with untapped yet firm potential.

C and C- are generally for Pokemon that have their uses but are often outclassed or more inconsistent, as well as Pokemon with specific niches that don't warrant particularly high placement. Newly discovered Pokemon that are viable but have yet to find their footing or consistent usage can also be found here. Lastly, D-ranked Pokemon are UU by usage but unviable in the metagame. As such, discussion on Pokemon ranked in D is not allowed.

When nominating Pokemon to rise or drop in this thread, be sure to try avoiding personal bias. Some things to consider bringing up when discussing a Pokemon are how trends favor or disadvantage it, how it compares to competition for its role, and how it has adapted to shifts in the overall metagame. Replays are also great tools to help support a nomination, especially if it's for an unranked Pokemon to find a rank somewhere. Now, without further ado, it's time to get to our rankings. Enjoy!

S Rank

Noivern

Slowbro

Slowbro-Galar

A+ Rank

Cobalion

Necrozma

Sylveon

Terrakion

Zarude

A Rank

Doublade

Incineroar

Keldeo

Mamoswine

Mimikyu

Obstagoon

Rotom-W

A- Rank

Bisharp

Chandelure

Chansey

Copperajah

Krookodile

Reuniclus

Roserade

Rotom-C

Starmie

Tentacruel

Weezing-Galar

B+ Rank

Celebi

Dragalge

Grimmsnarl

Heliolisk

Marowak-Alola

Mienshao

Mudsdale

Polteageist

Porygon-Z

Ribombee

Scyther

Sharpedo

Slowking

Talonflame

B Rank

Araquanid

Barraskewda

Bronzong

Charizard

Gastrodon

Gigalith

Golurk

Heracross

Klefki

Palossand

Seismitoad

Torkoal

Tsareena

B- Rank

Cloyster

Escavalier

Gardevoir

Golisopod

Lucario

Pincurchin

Raichu-Alola

Shiftry

Tangela

Umbreon

C+ Rank

Arcanine

Darmanitan

Indeedee

Jellicent

Mantine

Milotic

Pangoro

Salazzle

Virizion

C Rank

Barbaracle

Bewear

Decidueye

Druddigon

Goodra

Porygon2

Quagsire

Steelix

Toxicroak

Vileplume

Xatu

C- Rank

Braviary

Centiskorch

Flygon

Froslass

Kingdra

Linoone

 

[Hilomilo]

Update Log
1. 8/06/20-9/08/20
2. 9/08/20-10/22/20

 

[Hilomilo]

Reserved. Happy posting! ~

 

[thundergoos]

Thank you for getting this out!!! It looks super solid.

I would like to suggest a rise for Mienshao from A to A+. I’ve been playing with it a lot, and I definitely think it deserves a rise. Its capabilities as an offensive pivot are assisted marvelously by its access to regenerator, offensive stats, and versatility. It’s capable of running several sets effectively, including LO Pivot, Band Attacker + Pivot, Scarf Attacker + Pivot, and on the rare case, even HDB (though this does restrict its damage output). While it is walled by Skarm, I think its overall presence in the tier as both an offensive pivot and general threat warrant a rise to A+.

 

[SHROKER]

they really done dirty to tsareena, definitely a B if not A mon with axel, hjk, spin and knock and its amazing ability

 

[Liquidocelot]

I'd like to nominate Scyther to be A/A- instead of B+.

Depending on the set there running Scyther checks/counters. 12/26 top mons. And is only checked by 9/11 mons. If Jirachu is special or Krook is running a rock type move and goes even with the rest and even then can pivot off of most of its counters with some good predictions.

Not only that but Scyther has a great speed tier, quad resistance to the many close combats that are thrown around in the tier and is a central force in many volt-turn teams alongside Rachi, Shao and Wash.

I'd go as far as to say it's betterthan both Tyranitar and Heracross who are both A- and it easily checks both if it's running brick break. As if scarf cross is locked in to CC Scyther beats it easy while it beats regular Cross by outspending and using Duel Wingbeat. Meanwhile Brick Break slaughters Tyranitar and Bisharp. It also can hit predicted Terrakion, Lycanrock, Coballion and many other hard as well. It can even pick off weakened threats with a technician quick attack. And run a threatening swords dance set as well.

The SR weakness and reliance on boots does hurt quite a bit. However, I think it's an amazing mon that can fit itself on pretty much every single type of team in the tier, with the exception of maybe Stall.

 

[Monky25]

I'd like to nominate Porygon-Z from B+ to A-
Porygon-Z was a very underrated pokemon throughout the month of July, as better DLC drops like skarmory, krookodile, and kirahi stole the show. However, Porygon-Z was still very threatening choiced, particularly scarf to outrun the fighetrs as well as to cripple Blissey with trick. Now that Blissey is gone and Screens HO is on the rise with the dropping of Bisharp, Porygon-Z has shown itself to be a very threatening sweeper. LO NP+3 Attacks, specs, scarf, and double dance are all very good, with double dance being the scariest once it gets off 1 agility and 1 Nasty Plot. Here are some calcs to show Porygon-Z's strong power, moves are typically Tri-Attack and dark pulse so it doesn't get walled by ghosts.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 465-549 (136.3 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 507-598 (156.9 - 185.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 621-733 (187.6 - 221.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 507-598 (129.6 - 152.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 442-520 (145.3 - 171%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 429-507 (108.8 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 312-368 (93.4 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 559-658 (179.7 - 211.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing-Galar: 624-736 (186.8 - 220.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Obstagoon: 554-653 (169.4 - 199.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 465-549 (136.3 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 546-645 (175 - 206.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 248 HP / 68+ SpD Incineroar: 429-507 (109.1 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Palossand: 590-697 (157.7 - 186.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 533-629 (125.7 - 148.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Once this mon gets going, there's very little stopping it. While it does require screens support to be this fearsome, I still do belive porygon-Z is an A- worthy pokemon. Its other sets are still very good with Blissey leaving, so a small rise from B+ to A- should reflect this.

 

[Cynde]

hell naw u aint putting druddigon in the same rank as garbage ass talonflame. druddigon has to be at least 1 rank higher than where it is rn. there's literally never been a game where it fails to put in good work (i think everyone with a good amount of experience with it feels the same way). a b rank just isn't reflective of that.

i feel like krooks a more A mon just based off the popular stuff rn. it struggles with most hazard control (skarm, rotom w/c, levitate weezing, hat and starmie to an extent etc) as a hazard setter and the scarf sets are also good but not great. it's 100% not terrakion or slowking level good so i think A is a better place for it.

dont rly know why mamo is A- either. pretty much nothing in this metagame favours it and it faces so much competition from better ice type breakers like kyurem plus the shitty speed and defensive typing make it hella tough to get good work out of in a game. this mons def b+ or smth

c+ is a bit unfair to tsar imo. maybe it's just the way i build but after a rapid spin it's usually got a good match up against a lot of the top tier stuff. plus the immunity to bisharp sucker punch is a great new niche. bump it up to b-

galv also deserves a spot on the vr (maybe one or two ranks below araq). really good speed tier, very good match up against all hazard removal bar offensive flamethrower noiverns and given that most araqs are now special i think it's easier to justify a switch to galvantula

 

[MTB'er Ben]

​

There's only so much rose tinted lens I can bare looking through before going blind with blood red...but the writing's on the wall for my favorite Mystic pokemon. I want to affirm the decision to rank it C+ and briefly explain why I agree. Flygon hits its peak for this generation in June 2020, right up to the point before DLC 1 dropped; it sat at 7th in usage up in the average rungs of the ladder. Now it fell off into 24th pole position and will probably drop slightly more month after month until it's allowed in its previous home of RU.

Jun-20​	Raw count: 49408 |
	| Avg. weight: 0.546673851558 |
	| Viability Ceiling: 91 |
	+----------------------------------------+
	| Abilities |
	| Levitate 100.000% |
	+----------------------------------------+
	| Items |
	| Choice Scarf 44.638%

Above is its highest viability ceiling in the 1500's year to date, and I'm afraid we won't see that stat again for a very long time. DLC 1 was not kind to the sand dragon and will continue to make it hard to justify on offensive team slots. Yes, its damage is mediocre, its speed is good, not great, typing is a double edged sword, and bulk is meh...but it has one thing going for it, and that it runs Scarf as its best offensive set. If not for this, it would be C or below. The issue is, Flygon isn't very versatile beyond that. When I build teams now, I have to make sure I don't lose to the top 10 threats, while propping up an Outrage or Earthquake cleaning the best I can with 5 other teammates (really miss Rotom-Heat as a partner).

Let's list the top 5 mons who makes this job the hardest in the current climate:

• Skarmory- all attacks tickle
• Rotom-Wash- defensive variants click will-o-wisp or pivot into EQs
• Grimmsnarl- screens setup fodder
• Weezing-G- Flygon go Uuuuuuu-Turn.
• Mamoswine- ICE SHARD

Ya hate to see it, but I think that's the state Flygon is in now. It's sort of hard build with at the moment, especially with my rigid playstyle (this is probably the other half of my whole frustration). It's going to need a research week to help find its footing in UU again *cough*plsDaiyagapls*cough

TL;DR Flygon is by-gone D:​

 

[Snowjy]

Druddigon.
I nominate this mon for B+/A- tier.

Druddigon is a mon that I think deserves a little more credit than it gets. The role he best suits is a rocker/para spreader. He has very mediocre defenses at 90 each, and an even less mediocre HP stat coming in at 77, which is a total of 358 HP when investing 252 evs into it. It isn’t a fast pokemon whatsoever with a base speed stat of 48. There isn’t much reason to invest any speed into Druddigon when going for a rocker/para spreader. However, he has an impressive 120 Atk stat that pairs very nicely with his great physical coverage. He has moves such as Earthquake, Iron Head, Superpower, Rock Slide, Crunch, Gunk Shot, and a couple elemental punches just to name a few. His moveset and stats make him look like a sweeper but with average defenses, and abysmal speed, he just can’t quite cut it. You can, however, outspeed base 95ers with max speed when you have a choice scarf. I personally dont see much use for this, but it can be a nice surprise factor at times. Druddigon also has three amazing abilities in Rough Skin, Sheer Force, and Mold Breaker. Rough Skin is most of the time the best ability to use with the rock setter/para spreader set while holding a rocky helmet and invest defense evs. Rocky Helm Rough Skin Druddigon is a great switch in to physical attackers that you resist because you can force a switch. You can then threaten the switch in with a Glare. I also like to run Sucker Punch on my Rock Glare Druddigon to pick off weaker targets that have been damaged by Rocky Helm/Rough skin. The fourth move is a rather flexible spot as you can fill it with something like Taunt to prevent Defog, set up, hazards etc. The other set I think has a small niche is Choice Band. Like I said previously, Druddigon has fantastic coverage and two great offensive abilities. Sheer Force is great because most of Druddigon’s coverage moves have a secondary effect and therefore get the boost. Mold Breaker is a great ability that’s pretty self explanatory. I prefer Sheer Force on banded Druddigon but Mold Breaker just fine as well. I often find myself not running a stab attack because Dragon Claw doesn’t get boosted by Sheer Force and getting locked into Outrage is problematic by itself. You definitely can run Outrage, it just comes with that inherent risk of, you know, fairy/Skarm switch-ins. It’s pretty hard to justify banded Drudd over other, better banders but it definitely has it’s niche on certain teams.

So yah, that’s my Druddigon analysis. Hopefully it made sense and I didn’t make too many factual errors haha.

 

[TaxiCab]

Just gonna drop my opinions on some of things that caught my eye looking at the VR.

Rises:

C+ --> B+
Golurk in C+ is definitely too low for it, not only is it miles better than everything in that tier, it is better than most if not all of the mons in B- and B. Golurk has a tremendous typing both offensively and defensively, as it can hit everything in the tier for neutral damage with its (very powerful) stab moves, not to mention good coverage options such as heat crash, dynamic punch, and ice punch. Solo recently used AV golurk in wcop and won, and Confide also used golurk in wcop (which got 5 kills btw. FIVE. I dont see arcanine or flygon doing that). You can use 4 attacks, sub, or even rock polish, and you can run av, life orb, colbur, or even metronome. In my experience, golurk always will at least trade 1 for 1, and often gets 3 or 4 vs fatter builds. The defensive typing allows you to check toxtricity and gweezer, and you can help vs terrak and be an emergency check vs lycan w/ colbur. You get free subs on all the fat mons (weezer, skarm, slowking) and go in from there. I wish I saved some replays of my own this was the only one I could find https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1159530573

C --> B-
Virizion is also a very slept on mon, and it most certainly does not belong in C tier with absolute garbage like blastoise and shiftry. The defensive typing is excellent and is the only mon in the tier capable of checking krook and the rotoms, which is extremely valuable. The speed tier is pretty great and you are certainly not passive; if your opponent is not using skarmory, it can be very hard to switch into leaf storm/cc/stone edge, with leaf storm doing 40 to weezer. I have run life orb, ebelt, and even boots, which is probably my favorite of the three. Boots shreds webs easily and being immune to hazards helps it check krook and the rotoms much better, helping its soft physdef and preventing it from getting stuck in the vortex and dying to hazards. Synthesis also provides longevity. This said, it is definitely not easy to fit on teams and is a more niche option, which is why it fits perfectly into B-. ("In B- and C+ lie Pokemon with defined niches that may run into more restrictions that prevent consistent usage")

B --> B+
Druddigon is worthy of rising to B+ because it has found a consistent place on the many drud+hat bulky offense/voltturn teams running around. Druddigon is able to do so much for a team-it can help out the matchup vs opposing voltturn by checking sycther and the rotoms, gets rocks up, can spread paralysis, spread chip, and, in a pinch, it can attempt to 1v1 things like mimkyu doublade terrak lycan etc with endure+glare+recoil. It faces competition in its role from things like rocks jirachi and rocks krook, but on more offensive builds where one needs scarf jirachi, it works wonderously. It can be taken advantage of, however, by kyurem and weezing, which is why it works so nicely with hatterene and which is why those structures have become so popular. The fact that it consistently forces progress every game+the fact that it is a major part of one of the bast structures atm definitely warrants a rise.

A --> A+
Mienshao is the best scarfer in the tier, and it is truly a blessing to have on any team. Mienshao has a combination of assets that make it so good: regenerator, which allows it to consitently revenge kill/threaten out threats without being worn down like other options such as krook, jirachi, and keldeo are; access to uturn and knock off, which are great moves that allow it to cripple switchins like weezing or slowking and nab momentum; and the perfect moveset and typing to revenge vast swaths of the tier-it resists accelerock, hits jirachi hard, is faster than scarf jirachi, and has access to moves like rock slide and poison jab to help with hatterene, scyther, and noivern. Also, running scarf mienshao (which is without a doubt miles better than scarf keld and ig scarf krook) allows you to do something very valuable-it allows you to run a non-scarf jirachi comfortably, which just makes it even better. Mienshao is extremely consistent as well, and can always do something in a given game; it is super splashable as well, and I think it definitely as good as most of A+ ("A+ and A ranks reside Pokemon that are also defining but don't quite provide the same extent of splashability, utility, or centralization as what's in S.")

Drops:

B+ --> B-
Rhyperior faces stiff competition as a rocker from cobalion krook, jirachi, drud, palo, and ttar, and as a rock type, it is simply not anywhere near as good as tyranitar, lycanroc, or terrakion. The problem with rhyperior is that it doesnt really provide anything besides stealth rock, a vern/incin check and a volt immunity (all the elecs except toxtricity dont care about u anyway) and checking vern and incin is not something teams are desperate for right now. With slowking, weezer, skarm, rotom around, as well as tons of stuff that threaten it offensively, it just feels hard to justify on a team right now. I hope I am making sense but rhyperior just doesnt really do anything.

A --> A-
Cobalion in A is very odd to me because it is very clearly worse than everything else in A. Cobalion is an ok rocker with volt allowing you to pivot out on slowking and skarm, but it doesnt check much besides bisharp goon and ig sycther and being an emergency stop to terrak/lycan with chople. I have used cm volt sets and I find it very fun but you still lose to slowking and are nowhere near as consistent, splashable, or just plain good as the other guys in A. It also doesnt help that cobalion is hard to fit on teams-a steel that cant really switch into weezer, kyurem, celebi, hat, or any jirachi other than scarf makes it hard to fit on teams. It is a better fit in A with other mons that are similarly a bit awkward.

A- --> B+
Mamoswine is another mon that can be pretty hard to fit on teams and to be honest even when it does fit the payoff you get is not immense or anything. As a ground, it is 1 million percent worse than krook, and it doesnt get free turns on much of the metagame. Even if you manage to get it in, it cant muscle past skarm washtom and weezer. It can be akward to fit on teams because like rhyperior it is a ground that doesnt really do much for you defensively however this dude doesnt even run rocks, which makes it more difficult to build around when you realize oh shit i just put a ground on my team (which are already hard to come by) and now you have to fit rocks somewhere. Rocks mamo is bad b/c you have to drop one of shard, crash, or knock, ig you drop knock but then slowking walls you 100%. As a breaker, it faces stiff competition from better and more splashable mons like kyurem, the rocks, and jirachi, and, tbh, golurk just to name a few noteworthy ones. However, it has a niche because the ground resists are iffy right now, and I think B+ with mons like pz would better suit its situation at the moment. Like Cynde said, it is difficult to get work out of this thing in game even if you fit it on

A+ --> A
Krookodile is definitely the best ground type in the tier; however, I think A+ is a bit much; Cynde said it pretty well here too-it struggles with common cores and hazard control like weezer, skarm, and washtom, and you dont check much either, scarf is viable but outclassed by mienshao and jirachi, and its just a bit weird atm. That doesnt mean its bad i just dont think its consistent enough or good enough to fit in with A+ mons like slowking, terrak, mimikyu, lycan, skarm etc...it is definitely worse than these guys and you could even argue some of A as well

 

[Adaam]

Disagree with dropping Rhyperior. The physical bulk and typing is unique it as a rocker, which makes it a fantastic Obstagoon and Noivern check. Solid Rock also lets it 1v1 unboosted Terrakion and Lycanroc without rating on Chople Berries, which is something Krook or Tyranitar can’t do. And it still is one of the hardest stops to Toxtricity we have that isn’t passive like Palossand, so B+ is fitting for it.

Definitely agree with a Krook drop. It’s utility as a scarfer and rocker is very nice but Rotom-W, Skarm, and Weezing being everywhere make it tough to make progress with besides knocking them. Without Scarf it’s pretty much Jirachi fodder and the presence of Terrakion makes you never want to click a Dark-type move. A is more fitting, it’s definitely not as good as Keldeo, Terrak, Rotom and co.

Speaking of Skarmory, it should also drop a sub rank. Spikes are nice but it has no way of keeping any hazard up against Rotom or even Weezing. Obstagoons are using Taunt to cripple them, and it brings in too many scary breakers like Toxtricity and Kyurem that no longer can be covered by Blissey.

 

[TheGreatMeowth]

I'd like to nominate Tsareena from C+ to B-/B

Tsareena has a distinct niche as being one of the only two mons in the tier that viably runs rapid-spin and being the only one with a substantial offensive presence. Being able to keep up your own hazards while removing the opponent's is a very valuable trait to have in the pivot-heavy metagame UU is in right now. Tsareena's grass typing, good attack stat, and dark-bug coverage allow it to threaten out most of UU's rockers or deal irrecoverable damage to them, with the exception being Skarm. Here are some calcs.

252+ Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 486-576 (111.9 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 276-326 (73.7 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tsareena Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 192-228 (56.8 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tsareena Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 220-260 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tsareena U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 316-376 (78.2 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Her access to U-turn means any rocker she can't force out, such as Rajah or Druddigon, will just get pivoted around into a better matchup, and her decent base 72 speed means she'll out-run the majority of hazard setters and get a breaker in before hazards are set-up.

Tsar also has Knock-off and Trop kick in her toolkit. The former has excellent utility and the latter reduces the target's attack stat by one. An Incineroar switching in predicting a rapid spin or power whip gets defanged by trop kick or gets knocked and loses his HDB. Tier king Jirachi doesn't appreciate getting hit by either move either. For those wishing for extra power, power whip is a devastating move against even neutral mons, provided it lands. Pokemon that run Justified, such as Terrakion and Keldeo, both get OHKOed by the aforementioned power whip. Finally, Queenly Majesty is a niche yet effective ability that can completely shut down prankster mons such as Grimmsnarl and Klefki, which as a side effect also stops frailer set-up sweepers such as NP Porygon-Z and Teapot. This puts up extra pressure on the opponent and can win games entirely. QM also preys on uninformed players and those who simply forgot about QM and its effects, which is another albeit cheap plus.

Tsareena, however, does have her drawbacks. For one she is relatively frail and can't switch in often, and to fully maximize her spinning potential a teammate like Slowking is needed to safely teleport her in. To compound this, Tsar lacks any recovery options save for leftovers, but is forced to run HDB to not take major chip every time she switches in to spin. Tentacruel, her main spinning competitor, has passive recovery via Black Sludge and Giga Drain, and on top of that absorbs t-spikes. Tenta also packs good defensive utility, something which tsar again doesn't have.

Overall Tsareena is an underrated mon. It has a distinct niche as an offensive spinner and has a good match-up against most of the tier's viable hazard-setters. QM stops Prankster mons from setting up and punishes them with knocks and spins.

 

[Lily]

Nominating Mudsdale from UR -> B/B+.

Set

Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Smack Down
- Toxic

This is customisable, its movepool is quite good. Experiment to your heart's content.

What does it do?

Mudsdale is a pretty simple Pokemon. It's a Ground type that uses its great natural bulk to take on threats like Lycanroc-Dusk, Terrakion, Cobalion, and - very impressively - Jirachi, stomaching hits from even the mixed set (though it's worth noting that EBelt Energy Ball 2HKOs, so you may want some spdef if you want it to reliably beat that) and then dishing out powerful hits of its own from its great base 125 Attack and strong STAB Earthquake. Its good movepool means it has access to Stealth Rock and Smack Down, which allows it to both set up the hazard and prevent most removers from removing it, sort of akin to Krookodile but most notably without the Fighting weakness.

Why is it good?

UU is unfortunately quite starved for bulky Ground-types, with our most notable options being Krookodile and Palossand. Both of these come with their own weaknesses - Krookodile isn't really that bulky bc it runs Attack and Speed and relies on Intimidate a lot in addition to its Fighting weakness, and Palossand is very passive and weak to Dark. Mudsdale doesn't have either of these issues. It's very bulky on both sides, isn't weak to common coverage from any of the Pokemon it's supposed to check other than Jirachi's Energy Ball, and it isn't really passive at all. Stamina is also a great ability that makes Mudsdale quite resilient to stuff like repeated Iron Head flinches and punishes your opponent somewhat for mindlessly U-turning.

Where's the proof?

I used the horse for many of my suspect test games, as well as in roomtours. Here are some replays where it did very well:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1168235082 - vs 467 11 11p
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1168239034 - vs Sickist
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1168256206 - vs TMM lmao who the heck is Slurpuff
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1170478588-ep1ia5tuxc67s45m8kehn49wn7vgktypw - Renny vs hs

I will probably grab more and edit them in, apparently I didn't save them on my reqs account but like I got reqs with it so yeah. Renny can provide more replays for the haters.

Please rank the horse I swear he's really good

 

[Monky25]

C- --> UR I haven't seen this thing at all while attempting to ladder for the jirachi suspect. It has no merit in using over other waters like washtom, slowking, starmie, tentacruel, and even mantine while thoroughly outclassed by the tiers many fighting types, specifically keldoe, who has the same type and is so much better than it.

C ---> UR Like poliwrath, there hasn't been much usage of it in the tier.Its outclassed as a defensive water by the same ones i mentioned above and as a shell smasher by cloyster. I feel while it does have a rapid spin niche, it isn't enough to justify a ranking as something like starmie is the superior spinner.

C--> UR. This thing gets beaten by way to many of the top mons in the metagame, like tier king jirachi, terrakion, krookodile, lycanroc-dusk, and mamoswine. Furthermore, its ok attacking stats cant beat top stuff like doublade, weezing-galar, and skarmory. Its very frail and not too useful in this current metagame.

B- --> C+/C Umberon struggles in the current metagme. So many fighting types running around the top ranks alongside fairies like mimikyu and hatterene means that umbreon is a pretty crappy pick rn. It's not even good compared to the other B- mons in the tier.
(EDIT: Removed Xatu cause I messed up my thoughts about it and confused it’s niche in this tier with it’s niche in OU)

 

[Estarossa]

UR -> B : Definitely agree a lot with Lily on this. I've been using it for a while too and the combination of a check to most Jirachi sets including Calm Mind + a strong Lycanroc-D check in the same mon is absolutely great and makes it a viable pick over Krookodile on a bunch of teams. I've instead been running this set with mine:

Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
Nature: Impish
- Earthquake
- Smack Down
- Body Press
- Stealth Rock

Body Press + Stamina on Mudsdale is honestly a pretty cool combination, giving it a strong instant hit on Pokemon like Rotom-W/Rotom-M on switch in, (35-40% at +1 Def on defensive wash), and has some handy uses when checking Pokemon like Tyranitar/Krookodile in a pinch which you can do more damage to, especially if they trigger Stamina. Attack investment lets you 2HKO Skarmory and just generally have more offensive presence with your Earthquake.

As lily says, one of the nicest things about using Mudsdale on a team over Krookodile, is the lack of a Fighting-weakness it gives you, helping with Jirachi/Lycanroc-D, making you a much better switch in to Pokemon like Doublade, and giving you the ability to soft check Pokemon like Terrakion/Cobalion. Honestly the latter part is pretty huge too because you aren't giving them free opportunities versus you unlike against Krookodile, which they can force out for easy breaking opportunities, while Air Balloon versions can even switch into it.

Lily already provided replays, but here's another team with it if you want to try the Horse out - https://pokepast.es/afbacc3169595849


A -> A+: Mienshao is absolutely one of the best Choice Scarf users in the tier between its fantastic speed tier, decent power, and most importantly Regenerator just making it really hard to wear down with chip damage and hazards. It's so insanely splashable and opens up Pokemon like Jirachi to more easily run other sets. Its incredibly consistent, and while it definitely has trouble with common Pokemon like Hatterene, Weezing, and Skarmory, this just makes Mienshao an even better offensive support Pokemon to the plenty of wallbreakers we have in the tier that can pressure these Pokemon. What makes Mienshao even more dangerous is the fact it can also run its offensive LO Regenerator sets, while they aren't as splashable, they have the ability to easily subvert a lot of standard counterplay with stuff like Swords Dance for Skarmory/Palossand/Slowking or Poison Jab for Hatterene, and have the sheer power to threaten out a lot of our greatest threats like Calm Mind Colbur Jirachi. While Neutralising Gas Weezing is like a complete counter to mienshao with shutting down its regen and potentially chipping it with helmet, its also a pokemon that doesn't appreciate constantly being used for free momentum by Mienshao over a game, and due to Mienshao's solid speed cant often prevent it from doubling for free regen in an emergency.


A- -> A: In my mind, Starmie is one of the best wallbreakers in the tier, offering solid defensive utility in checking Pokemon like Keldeo and Cobalion for such an offensive Pokemon and genuine survivability with recover, while having incredibly limited switch ins to its Analytic boosted moves. Its speed tier is an absoluttely huge part of this when its able to serve as an offensive check to a lot of the tiers top wallbreakers like Keldeo, Terrakion and Lycanroc, while the loss of Blissey has made clicking any move except for Psyshock a lot more free and easy. Its ability to threaten physically defensive walls like Palossand, Skarmory, Weezing, (and Horse above) is also fantastic in a tier where a lot of the super common Pokemon like Jirachi/Mienshao that bring them in have U-turn, giving it so many breaking opportunities beteween defensive walls and offensive threats it checks.

A really cool set atm on Starmie is Heavy-Duty Boots offensive sets, which are absolutely great versus the extremely common Webs offenses we've been seeing in UUWC, which have been proving extremely dominant with their absurd usage and win rate. While they trade some of the raw power that Starmie usually has, their inability to be worn down by hazards can be really handy and opens up running Rapid Spin on it more safely too.


C -> B-: I absolutely agree with this nomination atm. A big part of the picture that people like Sickist are missing with this Pokemon is the uniquely useful defensive properties its typing offers it, making it a solid check to Krookodile and Rotom-W/M at the same time, while having reliable recovery. I also wouldn't call Weezing the biggest issue to Virizion, and while its certainly a road block for it and punishes Virizion for clicking CC/SE/MH, Weezing absolutely hates taking 50% damage from Leaf Storm when trying to switch in, making this not a sustainable switch-in at all long term.

The combination of its unique combination of Pokemon it can defensively check, + its general wallbreaking prowess into matchups lacking a skarmory (Focus Blast is probably honestly an option with Blissey out of the tier now but I'd rather take CC's consistency vs Pokemon like Kyurem/Obstagoon) makes Virizion an honestly rather dangerous Pokemon. (its also a really nice answer to boots Heliolisk thats been popping up lately for its great matchup vs webs and stuff) Its ability to pressure common defensive Pokemon running around the tier like Slowking, Rotom-W, Palossand, while using its great speed stat to threaten offensive mons like Kyurem, Krookodile, and Obstagoon makes it really easy to find opportunities to just fire off its strong stabs and easily make progress, and puts it way above a bunch of the Pokemon in the C ranks that just don't offer this much consistency in both the offensive and defensive departments.


B+ -> A-: This pokemon had definitely fallen off for a long while in the absence of Rillaboom, while Dragon Dance sets and the like dropped off with the DLC too. Recently though, there's been a lot more exploration with Necrozma again, Automotise + Meteor Beam sets have been really cool options on offensive teams like Screens, and have had solid showings recently, offering an incredibly dangerous late game threat, while the usage of Electric Terrain teams has been picking up more recently, and Electric Seed Necrozma is an absolutely pivotal part of what makes these teams so good, other than Raichu itself. The succesful use of these newer Necrozma sets definitely makes it deserve a rise up one subrank in my mind, showing that its starting to come back towards the threat it once was to a degree. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1165433643 - the dangers of eterrain necrozma lol

UR -> B-: In a similar vein, Electric Terrain teams have been seeing some usage lately, and Raichu-Alola is absolutely the reason why. Its ability to just outspeed every boosted Pokemon in the tier and OHKO a lot of offensive Pokemon with Rising Voltage makes it an absolutely terrifying sweeper thats really difficult to play around in any way other than double switching and stalling out terrain turns unless you have Sucker Punch Lycanroc-D/Bisharp or a Mimikyu, which still can't switch into Raichu. While its bulk is rough even with investment, it can get enough set up opportunities with Pincurchin's Memento support against bulkier teams to easily plow through would be checks like Tyranitar, Celebi, and Umbreon, too making it just have a fantastic matchup versus most teams really. Boots Raichu-Alola has also been getting some standalone usage outside of Electric Terrain, making use of its fantastic speed to have a nice offensive matchup and check a lot of Pokemon like Terrakion/Keldeo, and provide an offensive pivot too.

Posted RMT yesterday of an Eterrain team we used in UUWC (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1165433643), i know that Lilburr has also been using my team lately on ladder and stuff so she may be able to provide more replays that actually show raichu doing the wallbreaking not necrozma.

UR -> C: Obviously this needs to be ranked with Raichu if Raichu gets ranked (which it really should do lol). 2 subranks difference should accurately portray the level of difference between the mons, as obviously Pincurchin is a pretty mediocre mon that is just a necessity if you want to use Electric Terrain, but Electric Terrain itself is a pretty solid playstyle rn that doesn't even feel like cheese a lot of the time. It's not a completely useless mon though, its bulk is enough to check some Pokemon like Cobalion decently, while Toxic Spikes / Spikes and Memento support definitely give it some team support ability, toxic spikes themselves can be pretty useful to potentially hit Tyranitar and Celebi and stuff for Necrozma. See previous replays if you want to see Pincurchin doing Pincurchin things.

 

[pokemonisfun]

B+ -> A-: This pokemon had definitely fallen off for a long while in the absence of Rillaboom, while Dragon Dance sets and the like dropped off with the DLC too. Recently though, there's been a lot more exploration with Necrozma again, Automotise + Meteor Beam sets have been really cool options on offensive teams like Screens, and have had solid showings recently, offering an incredibly dangerous late game threat, while the usage of Electric Terrain teams has been picking up more recently, and Electric Seed Necrozma is an absolutely pivotal part of what makes these teams so good, other than Raichu itself. The succesful use of these newer Necrozma sets definitely makes it deserve a rise up one subrank in my mind, showing that its starting to come back towards the threat it once was to a degree. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1165433643 - the dangers of eterrain necrozma lol

Nice post I agree with it all. Please stop showing that Necrozma replay everywhere though, thanks.

Here's a nice Virizion team https://pokepast.es/c117c10b8bb3d4f3, I'd say Megahorn is a nice technique if you're very Celebi weak.

 

[DiscoDucky]

View attachment 270024 C- --> UR. Just use Hatterene lol, it's better than Xatu in every way.

Going to disagree here. Xatu is the second-best Screens setter after Grimmsnarl with large enough differences to make it stand out. Xatu's access to Teleport allows it to safely bring in frailer set-up sweepers, like Lycanroc-Dusk or Porygon-Z. Grimmsnarl's lack of a pivot move means that you're always making a hard switch after it sets screens. Second, Xatu's typing synergizes with a lot of the tier's set-up sweepers. Pokemon like Lycanroc, Terrakion, etc. all get downed by types that Xatu resists and vice versa whereas Grimmsnarl takes those SE hits neutrally. Finally, Xatu's access to either Roost and Thunder Wave gives it a lot more utility options than Grimmsnarl, especially since Xatu can't be Taunted. Roost allows Xatu to reset screens multiple times a game while Thunder Wave allows you to cripple faster threats. In the latter case, this is a humongous boon for Double Dance Pokemon (RP + SD Terrak, Agility + NP PoryZ) as they don't have burn a turn boosting speed to sweep. Although Grimm also has access to Thunder Wave, it largely has no room for the move on its set.

With that said, I don't think Screens is in the best place right now, so C- is completely warranted for Xatu ATM. The justification that "Hatterene does it better" ignores the fact that these two Pokemon do different things in the metagame. Keep it ranked please.

 

[PlusC]

for B-

Unranked is an insult to my rocky boy. He's a great rock setter and special tank and has good offenses as well. It takes down a lot of common special attackers like Hatterene (with Heavy Slam, which will often switch in to try and bounce rocks) and can really spread Toxic and rack up the chip damage by forcing switches.

it also avoids the 2hko from specs Kyurem's EP (Timid anyway, for Modest you need to pop a Protect to grab some extra Lefties heals) and can OHKO back with Stone Edge after rocks (or with a high roll and 2 rounds of SS chip.

it also takes Noivern, Porygon Z, Sylveon and basically any special attacker that doesn't have a SE stab (which is admittedly quite a lot of them now).

I expect this set to be the norm;

Gigalith @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Toxic / Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Protect
- Heavy Slam

 

[avyrie]

Two underrated mons for noms

to A-
Rotom-C, especially Scarf variants, are incredibly potent and can fit on teams very easily. Between Volt Switch and Leaf Storm it already threatens like half of the meta, especially with Scarf intact, and Volt Switch easily forms volt turn cores with common mons like Mienshao Noivern Keldeo Jirachi Slowking... the list goes on and on. It’s easily one of the best speed control options rn, only behind Jirachi which gets banned, and Mienshao. Though its power may lack a bit it has Trick to easily cripple any fat mons or resists like Umbreon Kyurem Celebi etc. After Tricking its Scarf away it can set up Nasty Plot which turns it into an immediately threatening breaker, doing chunks of damage with Leaf Storm and can always pivot out of a bad matchup with Switch. It can also provide hazards removal support in Defog if a team desperately needs one, and matches well versus common rockers like Skarmory and Krookodile. Speaking of Krookodile, its Levitate ability also provides a team with a Ground immunity, which is really crucial in the current meta. It also has better coverage in its stabs than the washing machine, its main competiton(bc fire types are bad) and checks the washing machine itself, which can be annoying at times. However, it it largely outclassed by washtom in terms of defensive utility, and has some annoying weaknesses like bug and poison. These traits combine to make the cutting machine deserve an A- Rank.

tl;dr: excellent speed control and pivot and defogger and has a good mu against offense and stall alike and gives crucial ground immunity and fits on teams so easily just look at all the teams in rmt and building lab they all have cutman

to B/B+
Golurk is a rising star in the current meta, being able to threaten a large portion of the meta with its extremely strong dual stabs alone. Poltergeist is a huge blessing to its excellent 124 attack stat, and EQ kinda just hits everything like always. Combined with an expansive movepool for coverage, most notably a Dynamic Punch that can’t miss, its Choice Band sets are incredibly hard to deal with. It can also take an alternative role as a Rocker, taking advantage of the huge amount of switches it forces while still hitting decently hard with a max 381 attack. Same goes with AV sets which checks Jirachi really well. Also equipped with great natural bulk, its lacking speed tier and weakness to common types like Dark and Water are the only things holding it back. Easily outperforms the other mons in C+ and B-, even some B mons. Just found it’s been nommed before so I won’t go into detail on all the mus.

tl;dr: hits like a truck and has good defensive utility and can set rocks and big coverage go brr

also mudsdale b+ hell yeah

might add more if i find a nom, ty for reading

 

[Twilight]

Drop to A Skarmory doesn't feel potent enough to be an A+ Pokemon. It wants to check Pokemon like Cobalion, Lycanroc-D, Jirachi, Krookodile, etc. but it does it so half-assed. It's typing leaves much to be desired when it comes to checking these because it is so reliant on its natural bulk to do so, more than its typing. It also has somewhat of a 4MSS with what it wants to run in the tier. Any set lacking Iron Head isn't going to pressure Hatterene well, while sets without Brave Bird lose to Celebi and check Fighting-types like Heracross poorly. Not having Whirlwind can also make it set up fodder for stuff like Doublade for example. It's still a great defensive wall and its ability to flexibly use Spikes, SR, or Defog is great but A+ is too high.

Rise to B+ I'm loving Dragalge right now and the need to have a heavy hitter that can check the Rotom formes and pivot into Keldeo is great. Flip Turn is pretty big for it, in order to generate momentum off some of the Steel-types it struggles with. Toxic Spikes are also super valuable.

Drop to A Slowking is still a great Pokemon but A+ is overselling it now with the tier having adapted to its presence pretty well. I think Future Sight isn't remotely as good or worthwhile anymore and I'd much rather be using status like Toxic or Thunder Wave to cripple stuff like the Rotom formes, Kyurem, etc. Slack Off can also feel super valuable right now. I'm also a fan of other sets that lack Teleport such as CM.

Rise to A+ All of the good Noivern pivots became ass so its usage and ability to wreck through teams has just soared. U-turn or 3 Attacks sets are really potent at ripping through this offensive metagame with its Speed tier being just as valuable as it was pre DLC.

Rise to A Toxtricity just clicks buttons so easily with there being 3 Pokemon that actually resist its STAB combo + Boomburst. Palossand and Golurk being two of them but both of which it can break with Snarl. It's typing also offers a good amount of defensive utility. Really good wallbreaker in the tier.

Drop to B+ Reuni seems odd in A- and I haven't seen it all that much. It definitely struggles more with the offensive metagame and us having more Dark-types that actually threaten it. It's still a solid Pokemon with a good amount of flexibility but a drop is warranted.

Drop to B+ I think Bisharp is pretty scary but it really struggles with the usage of Skarmory and the abundance of Fighting-types. Granted it only needs a little bit of chip for it to pick something off with a boosted Sucker Punch. Most of the time it has come down to Sucker Punch mind games because it relies heavily on that move to not get revenge killed. B+ feels more fitting for it personally.

Pokemon I think should drop a sub-rank or two:

Reasonings

Porygon-Z is a breaker that is pretty hard to justify using over something else. It's very prediction reliant, offers no defensive utility, and it's Speed tier leaves much to be desired. Tyranitar also hard walling it is pretty rough.

Grimmsnarl is a good Screen setter but that's about all I think it's good for. Screens are pretty good right now but I don't think that is enough for it to be in A-. Grimm has its flaws as a screen setter with not being able to bring a breaker in safely and being forced into 50/50's where it has to Taunt something. BU is just unbelievably difficult to fit onto a team and you're better off just using a 4 Attacks set imo.

Magneton is ass

Tentacruel feels pretty shit to use. It doesn't do anything exceptionally well. It wants to check stuff like Keldeo and Cobalion but it isn't consistent at doing so. I'd rather use Starmie if I want a spinner rn.

I'd rather use Gastrodon to Seismitoad right now simply because of the bulk + Recover. The main reason you would use it is for SR + washtom check but it does everything else pretty mediocrely.

Panda has really fallen from grace and there just isn't much reason to justify it over other breakers in the tier.

Umbreon, while a Jirachi check, is extremely limited to Stall imo. It has so many flaws to make it worth using on anything else with the abundance of Fighting-type breakers it just lets in for free.

Copper is another mon that has just fallen off completely with Jirachi being in the tier. Maybe it can get more usage if Rachi is banned but as of right now I'd drop it.

Golisopod is another Pokemon that has fallen off a lot and it doesn't appreciate Noivern usage being so high. Washtom, Skarmory, and Keldeo also makes its job so much harder.

Milotic and Jellicent are pretty subpar and there aren't too many scenarios where you'll genuinely want to slot them onto a team. Jellicent might be a little more situational if you really need that Keldeo check but I think a drop for both is fine.

There are more things I would look to drop or raise but I'm not going to talk about all of them.

Our C ranks are honestly a mess and I would UR everything in C-. Xatu is maybe the only one I could see having a niche worth using over Grimmsnarl because of Teleport, but otherwise everything else in there is ass. Barbaracle, Toxicroak, and Goodra are also pretty bad and I'd UR them too. B- to C is something I would look to see a lot of changes to when we vote on the next slate.

I'm lazy so just pictures for this bit.
Rises I agree with:

(A-/A)

(B/B+)

(B)

(A-)

Rises I disagree with:

Drops I disagree with:

 

[Lily]

Big ol' post with a ton of noms coming in before the suspect test ends. Brought these up with the VR team, we've been talking about them for a while, but I'm curious to see what you guys think. The first few will have longer explanations bc they're the ones I feel most strongly about, after that I'll just make them quick.

Rises

Noivern A -> S: Noivern's made a massive resurgence as the 2nd most dominant Pokemon in the tier right behind Jirachi, and it's not hard to see why. An incredible speed tier, solid power, unparalleled pivoting ability and more makes it an excellent Pokemon in its own right, but what really boosts Noivern is the fact that all of its most solid answers aren't great mons in the current meta at all. With the exception of Hatterene (which doesn't even like Hurricane variants) nothing really likes Draco -> U-turn at all, and with Pokemon like Sylveon struggling in the meta, it's just more and more free to spam. I get that this is a big nom, but Noivern really is an example of a Pokemon that can do just about everything, and its minor flaws are nothing compared to how much it brings to a team.

Hatterene A -> A+: We all kinda slept on this mon when it first dropped but my god is it the most annoying thing ever. Draining Kiss gives this thing disgusting longevity, it's virtually impossible to switch into and handle without Wish Jirachi or Copperajah, and on top of all that it has Magic Bounce so you can't even wear it down. Considering the increase in Jirachi variants like CM that don't run Steel stab and the newfound set versatility with things like AV and CM all making appearances, it's about time Hatterene rose.

Obstagoon A -> A+: The decrease in Skarmory usage and increase in offensive Weezing usage means Obstagoon is one happy badger. It has very few common switch-ins and its typing is actually really good and lets it offensively check stuff like Polteageist that's rly annoying for most teams to handle. Being able to abuse the crap out of Slowking is a massive boon for offense, and together with Keldeo it creates what I believe is the most powerful offensive core in the entire tier. I think it should rise to reflect that.

Heliolisk B+ -> A: Yes yes everyone's going to laugh at me bc it's Lily wanting Heliolisk to rise but this time it's very warranted. Heliolisk's Boots set is absolutely insane on offense and just never, ever dies. It's akin to Boots Zeraora in OU (which is being considered for S) in the sense that it doesn't really have anything that can block its Volt Switch safely with the exception of super niche mons like Galarian Stunfisk, bc everything that would attempt to block it just gets popped by Hyper Voice or Grass Knot. Its Speed tier also puts it above incredibly important Pokemon (Mienshao, Keldeo, Terrakion, Cobalion) and Electric STAB is probably the best possible typing to have in this meta, with most teams forgoing good Electric resists bc... we just don't have them. It also has an absolutely insane Sticky Web matchup thanks to being immune to Mimikyu's Shadow Sneak; pretty much the only mon commonly seen on webs that can actually prevent it from just autowinning is Lycanroc-D, and considering webs are getting a ton better, that's an amazing trait to have. It's fairly versatile if needs be and it's just really, really good at spamming Volt Switch and never dying and making you wish you weren't fighting it. I think a big rise is warranted.

Rotom-Mow B+ -> A-: For similiar reasons to Heliolisk, Rotom-Mow is really really good atm. Electric/Grass is pretty much only resisted by opposing Grasses which aren't amazing in this meta and its Scarf set took off a ton thanks to its ability to pivot into Pokemon like opposing Rotom, Rhyperior, etc. and just threaten so much of the meta with its STABs. It's one of the better ways to revenge kill shit like Keldeo and Terrakion bc Leaf Storm is so strong and it's really hard to justify blocking its Volt Switch bc the only Ground-type that doesn't instantly die is Flygon which isn't particularly relevant anyway. I think it's a cut above the rest of B+, pun absolutely intended.

~~~ here's where I get lazier ~~~

Mienshao A -> A+: Best scarfer in the tier, great life orb attacker, nothing at all actually handles it bc knock + uturn pisses every switch-in it has off. Not as strong as the other Fighting-types we have, but it's way more splashable than them (except maybe Keldeo) so it should rise to reflect that it's on about equal footing with Keldeo and Terrakion.

Toxtricity A- -> A: Take Heliolisk's pivoting abilities and ability to nuke grounds and put it into a slower, stronger package and you've got Toxtricity. Basically should just rise by virtue of how strong and spammable Overdrive is and the fact that it's a cool pivot into the likes of Heliolisk and Galarian Weezing.

Polteageist B+ -> A-: Teapot wins games bc ppl aren't running Umbreon or Incineroar atm and the only thing that actually really stops it is Tyranitar and a healthy Obstagoon. Good mon, meta favours it, it's consistent, rise it.

/

Araquanid and Ribombee B- -> B/B+: Webs got way better recently and these two are both very good setters in their own right. They also have neat traits individually, like Araquanid being a cool Skarm lure and Ribombee checking stuff like Krookodile decently. B- is far too low for them considering their consistency.

Golurk C+ -> B+: GOD LURK TO S. Ghost/Ground is a typing that feels like it was literally made for this meta and it has no switchins. It's not that hard to fit on teams either. We should put in a rank with other real mons that are not Poliwrath.

Virizion C -> B-: All my homies hate Krookodile. This thing was better when Crawdaunt existed but it's still pretty hard to switch into and compressing a good Dark resist and Ground resist into one slot is pretty cool. Plus, it abuses the shit out of Rotom, which is rly rare and something that only Rotom-Mow and Heliolisk can do otherwise (and Heliolisk hates Mow so).

~~~

Drops

Krookodile A+ -> A: Krook's weird bc it's objectively very good and a super threatening mon but it's just not the easiest thing to fit rn and doesn't check as much as it'd like to. It's a great rocker and a nice emergency check to Fighting-types but the most common ones can bypass it with U-turn, Hydro Pump or just being strong enough to blow it up at +2 (+1 after Intimidate). Scarf is picking up steam bc it owns Lycanroc and Terrakion but idt it's THAT good yet, should drop for now.

Skarmory A+ -> A/A-: Skarm is just not a great check to most of our most threatening physical mons. Obstagoon and Mimikyu are outliers and probably one of Skarm's main niches, it's the only Obstagoon counter we actually have and it handles Mimikyu well enough, but other than that it's eh - it struggles with SD Lycanroc, SD Terrakion, Volt Switch Cobalion, LO Mienshao, SD Heracross etc. and it's super passive so idk. I don't think it fits in A+ atm.

Slowking A+ -> A: Slowking's just really easy to take advantage of with the rise of Heliolisk, Obstagoon, Flip Turn Keldeo etc. and it doesn't provide nearly as much utility and walling ability as it did before. It's still amazing, one of the best blanket checks to a million mons and it creates momentum like no other, but it just doesn't feel as good as it used to and idt it's on the level of some things like Lycanroc or Terrakion.

~~~

Mons that I think should rise but can't really say why bc I don't have much experience with them:

Mons that should drop bc they just don't see usage or aren't really effective at all that I don't feel like explaining:

(UR)

I'll probably talk with the VR team internally about unranking a bunch of stuff btw. A lot of the mons in C/C- are basically not usable so we can probably get rid of them and clean things up. We'll go over that soon. Ty for reading! :3

 

[Lyssa]

hi first vr post ever. i'm lazy so don't expect good formatting and i barely can speak english. I'm here to support/deny a few noms so here we go.

to S: Agree.
I think that Noivern is the best mon in the tier rn if you exclude rachi. It's splashable, easy to fit and gives a ton of both defensive and offensive utility, alongside an insane speedtier. Tbh i feel better about noivern rn than predlc, since raj/rhyp/sylv and a lot of other mons fell down in usage, alongside people realizing that bulky noivern(defog or not, with the exception of toxic which i would say it's still decent) is terrible. Also having uturn to pivot around the mimikyu disguise to kill it after sacking something, or infiltrator for sub keld(WHICH IS AWFUL BTW) and kyu is super useful.

to A+: Agree.
I honestly think that Hat is broken and could rise even to S but A+ sounds fine for now. Playing around this thing with offensive builds is painful, and a minimal error can cost you the game. Feel like Av sets are a worse but might be a me thing, CM is fantastic and highkey one of the best wallbreakers in the tier and will get even better if rachi leaves the tier. i hate hat+wish rachi+spdef ttar cores so much.

to A+: Not sure? Think A it's fine.
Honestly i never used goon too much and don't rate it highly. The skarm usage drop def helped it, but i still think that its speedtier is mediocre at best and not having an access to a prio sucks for it. Pivoting and switching into this thing can be painful but i don't find it too difficult to play around/not give it too many opportunities.

to A or at least A-: Agree.
Even tho i find it difficult to fit at times, I think that Lisk is super good atm. Boots Lisk is a fantastic tool to deal with offensive builds and webs in particular. The Mimikyu answer i needed in my life(ban mimikyu btw please tyvm), super good speedtier and honestly i think that elec types are super good in uu rn, with the little good ground types we have available.

Rising: Agree, but think that it can go even to A.
Mowtom is almost as good as washtom imo, fits well and easily in offensive builds and gives a ton of utility. Mowtom is one of the best scarfers in the tier, being able to revengekill basically any fast sweeper. Trick is a super useful tool to have against setuppers or fast builds, There isn't much that can switch into its stabs(apart from other grass types which dropped in usage a ton). Not still sure about NP sets, saw them doing fine/good but i didn't have ton of success while trying it out.

to A+: Agree
Best scarfer in the tier(mainly cause of how well it does against offense, and how useful it is for lycanroc), fighing types are fantastic etc. I love to use shao and find it fantastic. I didn't try SD orb out yet but i'm not sure hyped about it, AV is still fine even if its definitely worse than scarf and think that CB(cc regen, not reckless hjk sadly ) is fine in some builds.

to A: sure, even A+ imo.
I hate toxt so much. If you don't have the tools to deal with it it goes insane, and some aren't that easy to fit. Lowkey a fan of Drain punch sets more than snarl ones(sandcastle is trash, you don't need it for anything else), elec types are strong etc.

To A-: Agree?
Pot is good, but i think its still overhyped. I think that A- is fine for how well its doing lately, but should drop once people adapt to it(which isn't difficult btw, incin is fine, ttar is great and we have tons of prios).

Gonna dump even faster opinions here cause i'm bored

/

to B: Agree, not B+ tho
Webs are good but overhyped, i think that ribombee is better at keeping them up while araquanid is mediocre at it. Araquanid does more outside of that tho.

rising: Agree, idk where tho
hi golurk is good and you don't lose to toxt that much with it if you don't run into snarl trash.

Dropping: Agree.
Read lilys post above. Just gonna drop my 2 cents saying that Scarf krooko is the only viable one apart from chople on some rare builds, Skarm is only viable as a spiker and it's bad even at doing that. I feel like Slowking is fine now that people stopped using future sight sets, still think that A+ is too much for it. Krooko to A-, Skarm to B+ and Slowking to A is my opinion.

to A-: Agree.
Necrozma is fantastic, both DD knock sets with lum/wp and Pherb meteor beam sets. Had success with both, not a huge fan of it in terrain but it does fine there too. I wonder how good it is outside of cheese, i think that it would be fine but cba to try it out/we might lose it at the end of the month.

Also rank the Horse(B its fine for it) and alochu/pinchurin, drop pz and don't drop seismi/coba. Hope the post was fine, never did one before and i'm not good at writing/formatting thoughts. thanks for reading

 

[Sickist]

Dropping some thoughts on the new arrivals and where they should be.

-> B+/B
After using this mon with Specs and SubDDance, it's def better than stuff like Toad and about on par with stuff like Porygon Z. The issue with Kingdra is that, while can be threatening from preview, kinda disappoints in game. Specs Draco barely 2HKOs half of what it should be doing 90 to, and DDance is quite weak. I've found its also really hard to get Kingdra in except through a slow U-turn or Teleport, but it's speed tier is so meh that it's at least taking a hit and a half before getting to strike. I love this thing to death but I'm kinda disappointed overall. However, if you can manage to get behind a sub, Ddance mauls any build not running Weezing-Galar or the rare Whimsicott. Specs Hydropumps are also insane, considering that most of the tier's water resists don't want to come in on a Draco. Overall, a decent mon in the tier, has some issues, but has some pros as well. B/B+ material.

-> A+
Thanks to all the physical threats in the tier right now, I'd say Slowbro is probably on par of where Slowking was. Does the same things as Slowking, but with more physical bulk, letting it better handle the likes of Mamoswine, Terrakion, and Cobalion. That being said, I feel like Slowking def still has a place in the tier and if anything should just drop to like A-/B+ because special bulk is nice to have.

-> A+/S?
This thing is probably either the best or second best thing we've received this shift. It's an actual ground check that isn't severely punished by knock off/ smack down, and it can do so much more then that. Choice Band sets are insanely powerful, with Weezing-Galar being one of the few counters to the set (until they start running Iron Tail). Choice Scarf sets abuse it's relatively good base 105 speed stat and access to U-turn. Bulk Up and Pivot sets allow Zarude to abuse it's decent movepool (wish it got knock but w/e), and Jungle Healing allows it to even function as a stallbreaker. If I were more bold I would nom it to S, but I feel it won't be quite S material after a bit of UU adjustment to it. It even has really good bulk, with no investment, it stomachs a surprising amount, like Cobalion's CC never killing from full. Overall, this thing is one of the best UU pokemon right now in my opinion, and that's why I believe it's deserving of at least A+.

-> B/B-
Does sun setting things, not much else to really say about it personally.

-> B+
This thing was a rollercoaster. First I thought it was gonna suck, then thought it was broken, now im at a midground. With Thick Club, alongside it's great offensive movepool, it throws off insane hits that most of the tier dislike switching into. Having Lightning Rod allows it to function as a momentum stop on some teams, while Rock head allows you to throw off Flare Blitzes to your heart's content. However, it's really slow, kinda needs trick room to do anything MAJOR, and is limited to Club, therefore not being really able to run Boots/Berry/ w/e. Overall, it's a decent/okay mon. Some of the info about it needing trick room is just my personal opinion, please do not obliterate me, Esta and Twilight.

Thats all for now, I'm excited to see the meta develop, especially with Zarude in it.

 

[FloopThePig]

My first ever nominations :3


Roserade to B+

Skarmory, Jirachi, Kyurem, and Necrozma leaving gives Roserade some much needed breathing room. It loves the high usage of the two Rotoms together with the low usage of its better counters like Escavalier, Bronzong and Dragalge. It dislikes Noivern and Scyther's increased popularity, as well as stuff like Cobalion, Tentacruel, and Doublade still being good. However, Noivern and Scyther don't enjoy switching into multiple Sludge Bombs and Cobalion and Tentacruel can be chipped by repeated Leaf Storms and Spikes. Additionally, no UU Pokémon can really Defog or spin in front of its face safely so Roserade is really good in keeping its hazards. Roserade's old counters leaving also means Roserade's current checks are even more vulnerable to Sleep Powder.



Slowking to A-

Slowbro and Chansey dropping gives Slowking some huge competition. Terrakion, Lycanroc, and Mienshao are major threats at the moment, so Slowbro's higher defense makes it more favorable pivot. Slowbro can even survive two Hydro Pumps from Specs Keldeo, making Slowbro even more efficient since it covers a major special threat while handling physical threats better. Being unable to switch into the Rotoms, Roserade, and Celebi is also really unfortunate for Slowking. That said, there are still some merits to use this over Chansey. It's not as much of a momentum suck over the long run thanks to Regenerator and its good offenses means that it does not invite most physical attackers for free. It's honestly just a specially defensive Slowbro, so if you need a more splashable pivot that could counter stuff like Keldeo, Porygon-Z, and Starmie while also soft-cheking stuff like Mienshao and Lycanroc, use Slowking. That said checking physical threats is more important atm, which is why I believe Slowking should drop to A-.