STABmons Viability Ranking

Status
Not open for further replies.
Topsy Turvy should never be used on anyone who isn't a Prankster, for starters, but there is a clear difference between a defensive pivot who relies on burns or Destiny Bond to pose an actual threat and offensive pivots who threaten to straight up KO you. Yes, these guys can't deal with sweepers once they're set up, but I find they are excellent at maintaining momentum for your team and preventing the setup in the first place. It may not be Prankster, but blazing fast Dark Voids / Parting Shots are still great.

(EDIT: I say this having only actually used Weavile, who has the advantage of a strong Sucker Punch, so maybe Darkrai / Greninja aren't as effective)

As to Diancie, it's only notable niche as a Geomancer is its great physical bulk and Normal resistance, allowing it to handle most priority much better.
 
Spieky said:
Yanmega in Delta Minus? :/
Click to expand...

Where else would you suggest it going? It's there for a reason. Firstly, Tinted Lens + Specs is hard to switch into, but because of priority being everywhere and the presence of Stealth Rock, Yanmega really struggles. Quiver Dance / Tail Glow + Speed Boost does well versus low ladder, but with how common Sableye is, it's just not worth it to boost on some Pokemon. Overall, it appears good on paper, but in practice it is very mediocre.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EV
Yanmega got a lot of hype early on with the Tail Glow+Speed Boost combo, but like Unfixable said, boosting in STABmons is really only worthwhile when 1) you have strong priority, and 2) Sableye is out of the way or you have Scrappy. Boosting special attackers must also contend with Eviolite Chansey, who can take a lot of punishment before it steals your boosts with Transform and proceeds to run over your team.

Yes Yanmega suffers from Rocks big time, but the advent of Oblivion Wing is a remedy of sorts, letting it recover that lost health, and when coupled with Tinted Lens (the better of its abilities imo) it will be draining a lot of HP most of the time. Plus, Tinted Lens lets Yanmega threaten one of its common checks, Thundurus, but without Speed Boost (or a Quiver Dance boost) it risks getting hit back the next turn with a powerful Oblivion Wing from the genie.

To top everything off, it has a pitiful base Defense (had Defense/Sp. Defense swapped) mediocre-at-best base Defense and no way to circumvent the priority of strong Fake Out+Espeeders like Diggersby and Guts Ursaring. Running Protect can block the initial Fake Out, but Protect is only really viable on Speed Boost. But by designating a slot for Protect and one of Tail Glow or Quiver Dance, its last two slots are always going to be Bug Buzz and Flying STAB, further reducing its sweeping potential.

This combination of flaws keeps Yanmega from a higher spot in the ranking. This was not so much the case last gen before the introduction of Topsy Turvy and Yanmega was a much more potent threat. It is fairly unique in what it does (Tinted Lens nuke), but too many things hold it back.
 
Last edited:
The Eevee General said:
Yanmega got a lot of hype early on with the Tail Glow+Speed Boost combo, but like Unfixable said, boosting in STABmons is really only worthwhile when 1) you have strong priority, and 2) Sableye is out of the way or you have Scrappy. Boosting special attackers must also contend with Eviolite Chansey, who can take a lot of punishment before it steals your boosts with Transform and proceeds to run over your team.
Click to expand...

Yes, Sableye is a threat to TGlow Yanmega, but you can easily predict the switch to Sableye and not use TGlow, instead using Aeroblast.
Transform Chansey isn't a threat, as Aeroblast is Super Effective to it.
 
Spieky said:
Yes, Sableye is a threat to TGlow Yanmega, but you can easily predict the switch to Sableye and not use TGlow, instead using Aeroblast.
Transform Chansey isn't a threat, as Aeroblast is Super Effective to it.
Click to expand...

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Aeroblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Yanmega: 460-541 (71.6 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It doesn't OHKO, while Chansey's own does in return.
 
Spieky said:
Yes, Sableye is a threat to TGlow Yanmega, but you can easily predict the switch to Sableye and not use TGlow, instead using Aeroblast.
Transform Chansey isn't a threat, as Aeroblast is Super Effective to it.
Click to expand...
OK, granted you win the Speed tie, you have a chance to take out Chansey after a Transform. But that's a really high risk, because if you don't, there goes your team potentially, especially if you're running Oblivion Wing since the Chansey/Yanmega will be back to full health very quickly and won't be as easily KO'd by Fake Out+Espeed anymore. I'd rather not take that risk myself.

If Yanmega hits Sableye on the switch, Sableye might still be able to put it to sleep with Dark Void or hit it with a Parting Shot on the way out to a healthy check. I might be more inclined to bump up Yanmega if I can see it reliably doing what it's best at while getting around some of these stops I've provided.
 
Topsy-Turvy / Transform = why you should always run Substitute on Yanmega, as he can easily find room for it due to Tinted Lens giving Oblivion Wing near perfect coverage (only resisted by magnezone and Rock/Steels, none of them major threats and both hit neutrally by Bug Buzz, should you choose to run it, or destroyed by HP Ground) and Oblivion Wing healing back Sub damage.

Oh, and Tinted Lens >>>> Speed Boost on any Yanmega.
 
Last edited:
Hi! I'd just like to comment about a Pokemon I find is criminally underrated on this list:

Aegislash deserves B / B+ rank. As a boosting Shift Gear sweeper, Aegislash is absolutely amazing. With a Shift Gear or two up, Aegislash can easily clean through offensive teams without Sabaleye (Which have become a lot more common as-of-late :o). It's not really even that hard to set up, either, considering Aegislash has some great bulk to set up with. Of course, this is STABmons, so Aegislash obviously has some great STAB moves to use, such as Shadow Force and Gear Grind or Meteor Mash. Shadow Force is actually a really great move because, unlike Scizor, it means that Aegislash can actually beat Heatran, as Shadow Force goes through Substitutes. Here's a replay from OMPL to prove its effectiveness:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-146474718

Turn 26 I began to set up on Heatran, and then use Shadow Force to take it out. I also am able to beat Chansey, even with Transform, by using Shift Gear on the turn it Shadow Forces. I then proceed to OHKO Rotom-W, and I would have clean swept his team had in not been for the miss on Turn 39.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-142457856

The battle is going terribly for me, seeing how under-prepared I am for stall. However, on Turn 39, I am able to set up a Shift Gear on Chansey with ease. Since I've been able to weaken his Skarmory, a +1 Shadow Force actually will OHKO. You'll notice on Turn 40 he actually decides to Whirlwind instead of Roost, not realizing I'm backing Shadow Force (which actually really surprises people.) Even with Chansey to switch into Shadow Force, my opponent cannot risk being hit with a Gear Grind, else Togekiss would give him serious trouble. It ends up coming down to a Sucker Punch war at the end which I end up unfortunately losing, but had I been able to win it, I would have had a good shot of winning the game, even though my team was super stall weak.

All in all, Aegislash is an amazing Pokemon that is EXTREMELY underrated, and is definitely not on the same level as Mega Garchomp lol...
 
man can't you just use regular letters for the ranks, I don't like having to go back to the op every time someone nominates something for Δ- to see what they are actually nominating something for.

they aren't even in the right order anyway; it should be alpha Α, beta Β, gamma Γ, delta Δ and epsilon Ε
 
Delibird is Amazing said:
man can't you just use regular letters for the ranks, I don't like having to go back to the op every time someone nominates something for Δ- to see what they are actually nominating something for.

they aren't even in the right order anyway; it should be alpha Α, beta Β, gamma Γ, delta Δ and epsilon Ε
Click to expand...
lol no
Plus they are in order, just not the equivalent of ABCDE. And when did S come before A anyway? o.0
 
The Eevee General said:
lol no
Plus they are in order, just not the equivalent of ABCDE. And when did S come before A anyway? o.0
Click to expand...
S as a ranking above A originates from Japanese games. Aside from Metal Gear Solid 4, it has also been used in other games, such as Gran Turismo series (driving licenses), Devil May Cry (level performance), Final Fantasy VII (chocobo classes), Guilty Gear (character rankings), and countless others.

While the origin is universally acknowledged as Japanese, apparently, no one really knows what it actually stands for. It's been speculated that it stands for anything from Super to Special, but there's no confirmation that I can find of any sort of "official" meaning.

Giant Bomb's S-rank article states that because C was a failing grade in the Japanese school system, "S" was used to allow for a wider range of grades. See the following excerpt:

Originally created in Japan where anything below grade ‘C’ was considered a failure. The 'S-Rank' allowed for a wider range of obtainable grades and thus player motivation, meaning that it was soon adopted by western developers who realized that the ‘S-Rank’ was much cooler than the boring ‘A’. An A rank is commonly obtained by getting a 90% to 95%. If the player is flawless or achieves perfection in something, it qualifies as an S . Many people have wondered what the S stands for… Special? Super? No one knows for sure.

The Rank Inflation article on TVTropes mentions the S-ranking as well, however, without any speculation on the origin: But then what about the players who are really looking for a challenge for whom mere golds aren't enough? The solution — give them platinum medals to aim for. A-grade not good enough for you? Go for A+, or S. Sometimes, even these inflated ranks are subject to inflation, with A being about average and the real goal being a more different S rank: SS or even SSS. Urban Dictionary's S-Rank article (linked article is SFW, but the site itself can have some very NSFW content) also lacks a concrete origin:Something that is so superlative that it cannot be described by any traditional ranking system. It is A++, 11/10, six stars, and three thumbs up. In rare cases, something can be so exemplary that it becomes SS or even SSS-rank.Many people have wondered what the S stands for. Special? Super? Schwarzenegger? No one knows for sure. Comes from Japanese video games, like the Devil May Cry series, where A-rank just wasn't good enough. In addition, all 3 of these sites are editable by anyone on in the Internet, so I'm not sure that any of these can be considered concretely reliable, and the assertion on the Giant Bomb article that it's related to the Japanese grading system has no source and isn't one I can confirm because I am not familiar with the system. Basically, as the TVTropes article stated, it's just a way for there to be a ranking that is better than the "best", similar to how some games have Platinum medals on top of Gold.
 
Monte Cristo said:
S as a ranking above A originates from Japanese games. Aside from Metal Gear Solid 4, it has also been used in other games, such as Gran Turismo series (driving licenses), Devil May Cry (level performance), Final Fantasy VII (chocobo classes), Guilty Gear (character rankings), and countless others.

While the origin is universally acknowledged as Japanese, apparently, no one really knows what it actually stands for. It's been speculated that it stands for anything from Super to Special, but there's no confirmation that I can find of any sort of "official" meaning.

Giant Bomb's S-rank article states that because C was a failing grade in the Japanese school system, "S" was used to allow for a wider range of grades. See the following excerpt:

Originally created in Japan where anything below grade ‘C’ was considered a failure. The 'S-Rank' allowed for a wider range of obtainable grades and thus player motivation, meaning that it was soon adopted by western developers who realized that the ‘S-Rank’ was much cooler than the boring ‘A’. An A rank is commonly obtained by getting a 90% to 95%. If the player is flawless or achieves perfection in something, it qualifies as an S . Many people have wondered what the S stands for… Special? Super? No one knows for sure.

The Rank Inflation article on TVTropes mentions the S-ranking as well, however, without any speculation on the origin: But then what about the players who are really looking for a challenge for whom mere golds aren't enough? The solution — give them platinum medals to aim for. A-grade not good enough for you? Go for A+, or S. Sometimes, even these inflated ranks are subject to inflation, with A being about average and the real goal being a more different S rank: SS or even SSS. Urban Dictionary's S-Rank article (linked article is SFW, but the site itself can have some very NSFW content) also lacks a concrete origin:Something that is so superlative that it cannot be described by any traditional ranking system. It is A++, 11/10, six stars, and three thumbs up. In rare cases, something can be so exemplary that it becomes SS or even SSS-rank.Many people have wondered what the S stands for. Special? Super? Schwarzenegger? No one knows for sure. Comes from Japanese video games, like the Devil May Cry series, where A-rank just wasn't good enough. In addition, all 3 of these sites are editable by anyone on in the Internet, so I'm not sure that any of these can be considered concretely reliable, and the assertion on the Giant Bomb article that it's related to the Japanese grading system has no source and isn't one I can confirm because I am not familiar with the system. Basically, as the TVTropes article stated, it's just a way for there to be a ranking that is better than the "best", similar to how some games have Platinum medals on top of Gold.
Click to expand...
And the great thing about the Greek letters is there's no confusion: Alpha is better than Beta. Beta is better than Delta. Delta is better than Sigma. And Omega is the last letter, and in almost every case, used to denote the last in a series of qualities or strengths.

Also, it fits nicely with the new ORAS theme coming out soon.

Like Monte pointed out, S may have started from the Japanese grading system and then morphed into the best ranking in video games. But why does it have to be the gold standard everywhere? Greek is pretty universal IMO. That's why I chose it. Plus, in the OP I said we do things differently in OMs, so.
 
Unfixable said:
Umm then Chansey has a better chance? What's your point? You lose power and any previous damage / STEALTH ROCK render it useless anyways.
Click to expand...
Actually, it gives Yanmega atleast two hits on Chansey. As for Stealth Rock, it doesn't play a big role in STABMons tbh.
 
Maybe you guys can talk about how Stealth Rock does or doesn't contribute to STABmons instead of one line responses. :)
 
The Eevee General said:
Maybe you guys can talk about how Stealth Rock does or doesn't contribute to STABmons instead of one line responses. :)
Click to expand...
Talking about common sense makes little sense, and that logic has little...common sense.

Stealth Rock is important for:
1. Dragonite
2. Togekiss
3. Mega Charizard (both are prominent atm)
4. Chip damage on sableye every time it switches in (sableye constantly switches) and to break phantom sash sableye (which I sometimes run)
5. Breaking sash pokes in general.
6. Winning the many switch battles or roar spam in stabmons.

Stabmons tends to be switch battles, in my experience. Everything forces switches, since everything is so powerful. Therefore it is only logical that stealth rock is very important in getting chip damage in the many switch battles. Stabmons doesn't have that many wallbreaking high strength attacks, it usually leans toward more sweepers, sweep stoppers, and support. This makes switch battles common, nothing wants to set up with sableye still in the game and can't hit its checks that hard without setting up.
Meanwhile, roar is a great strategy on a wall against these pokes, since they don't hit that hard before setting up it tends to be easy to freely roar spam and proceed to rack up massive chip damage really fast. An example of this: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-131426058
This is a battle where empoleon stays in for 15 turns straight, roaring stuff and king's shielding when it can. While rocks weren't up so it didn't wrack up chip damage, it wouldve made the win much easier if there were rocks on the field.


I would keep going, but I hate wasting my time on common sense. ~
 
xJownage said:
Talking about common sense makes little sense, and that logic has little...common sense.

Stealth Rock is important for:
1. Dragonite
2. Togekiss
3. Mega Charizard (both are prominent atm)
4. Chip damage on sableye every time it switches in (sableye constantly switches) and to break phantom sash sableye (which I sometimes run)
5. Breaking sash pokes in general.
6. Winning the many switch battles or roar spam in stabmons.

Stabmons tends to be switch battles, in my experience. Everything forces switches, since everything is so powerful. Therefore it is only logical that stealth rock is very important in getting chip damage in the many switch battles. Stabmons doesn't have that many wallbreaking high strength attacks, it usually leans toward more sweepers, sweep stoppers, and support. This makes switch battles common, nothing wants to set up with sableye still in the game and can't hit its checks that hard without setting up.
Meanwhile, roar is a great strategy on a wall against these pokes, since they don't hit that hard before setting up it tends to be easy to freely roar spam and proceed to rack up massive chip damage really fast. An example of this: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-131426058
This is a battle where empoleon stays in for 15 turns straight, roaring stuff and king's shielding when it can. While rocks weren't up so it didn't wrack up chip damage, it wouldve made the win much easier if there were rocks on the field.


I would keep going, but I hate wasting my time on common sense. ~
Click to expand...
What I'm saying is that there aren't many Stealth Rockers in STABmons. Or, atleast I don't see that many. Just because there is a lot of switching doesn't mean that there is a lot of Stealth Rock.
 
Spieky said:
What I'm saying is that there aren't many Stealth Rockers in STABmons. Or, atleast I don't see that many. Just because there is a lot of switching doesn't mean that there is a lot of Stealth Rock.
Click to expand...
Heatran (A)
Aerodactyl (B)
Empoleon (too lazy to check)
Mega TTar (B+)
Skarmory (B+)
Landorus-I (B+)
off the top of my head.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EV
Scarfnaut said:
I truly think that Banette should AT LEAST be on this list somewhere. In it's mega form it has access to Prankster Destiny Bond. It's ghost typing allows for it to evade Extreme-Speed (Bar the banned Sylveon's pixilated e-speed) which is the only thing that can outprioritize it (Bar something random like a Mega Pinsir's Aeriate Feint idk o-o. It's basically a good way of eliminating a huge threat 100% of the time. Stat boosts mean nothing to it, and from what I can remember everything likes to set up in this meta.
Click to expand...
Why not just use Sableye that doesn't require to megaevolve and has access to Topsy Turvy, Dark Void and Parting Shot as well? Banette has literally no niche in this meta.
 
Talpr0ne said:
Why not just use Sableye that doesn't require to megaevolve and has access to Topsy Turvy, Dark Void and Parting Shot as well? Banette has literally no niche in this meta.
Click to expand...

Wow talk about a brainfart; I completely forgot about this pokemon
sorry
 
248-mega.png
Nominating Mega-Tyranitar for A rank

Thanks to its great stats, typing, and movepool, it is able to perform a wide variety of roles and it excels at almost every one of them.

Sand stream is also an excellent ability as it can disrupt other weathers (mega evolving as Charizard Y tries to solar beam you is very satisfying) and the chip damage is useful for breaking focus sashes and putting opposing pokemon into KO range for your other sweepers.

Offensively, it gains access to the deadly Sucker Punch/Pursuit combo - creating some serious mind games and putting huge pressure on the opponent to make the right plays (do you attack and potentially get KOed? try and switch and potentially get KOed? try and set up and potentially get put to sleep or KOed?) - and its Dragon Dance set becomes even more dangerous with access to moves such as Knock Off and Diamond Storm (or even Head Smash if you don't mind the recoil).
Its wide movepool also allows it to catch a lot of its usual checks off guard, making Tyranitar even more of a threat while you try and figure out what set it's running.

In a supportive role, it can set up Stealth Rocks and Spikes whilst pressuring potential defoggers with its STAB rock attacks or putting any potential spinners to sleep with Dark Void. It could even run Dark Void + Parting Shot/Memento to give one of its team mates a free turn to set up or Thunder Wave to make life easier for your sweepers.

Mega-Tyranitar can also be an excellent stallbreaker thanks to moves like Taunt, Dark Void and Knock Off. And Fire Blast from a respectable 95 spAtk will have Skarmory and Ferrothorn thinking twice about switching in.

It can even work in a more defensive role thanks to its 100/150/120 defenses (boosted by sand stream) and some very nice resistances (notably normal, fire, flying, dark and ghost).

All in all, Mega-Tyranitar is imo one the best and most versatile pokemon in the current metagame.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top