Stall Mart (OU)

Rofl Pwny

Hello everyone, I've browsed Smogon for a few years now, but never posted an RMT before. I just recently started using Shoddy, and have been playing around with different teams, and have settled on the group you will see below. It is currently 10-2 on the OU ladder, but I know it can be improved. Any constructive criticism is greatly appreciated!

Edit: Lots of changes have been made to the team thanks to all of your helpful criticism! Here is what I'm currently playing around with:

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Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Swampert is one of the best leads currently in the game and takes its place on this team as well. My first move is usually to lay down Stealth Rock. Swampert can then either attack, phaze, or switch out to Forretress if threatened by a Grass-type attack. Swampert provides some invaluable resistances to my team, and is a great physical wall as well.

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Forretress @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD
Nature: Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
- Payback
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes

Forretress combines the roles that used to be shared between Skarmory and Tentacruel. He not only sets up entry hazards in Spikes and Toxic Spikes, but he Spins away my opponent's entry hazards which can be a burden to a semi-stall team. Payback is there because it deals a considerable amount of damage to opposing Spin-blockers such as Gengar and Rotom.

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Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/224 Def/32 SpD
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-Wisp

Rotom-H has replaced Gengar as the Spin-blocker of the team. His high defenses and great typing help him in this role, as well as the inclusion of Will-o-Wisp. Will-o-Wisp also serves as a great way to prevent sweeps by the likes of Gyarados and Tyranitar. Thunderbolt is there as basic STAB, and Rest + Sleep Talk keep Rotom in the game.

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Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 Spe
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Surf
- Wish

Vaporeon is the Wish passer of the team. This greatly helps with keeping my Pokemon alive to continue stalling and phazing through the enemy team. Protect keeps Vaporeon alive to continue healing my team, and Surf is for STAB.

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Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
- Fire Punch
- Iron Head
- Trick
- U-Turn

Jirachi is the revenge killer of the team. I find her infinitely more useful than Scizor, because of her amazing type coverage and extreme speed. She can threaten and outspeed just about every Pokemon imaginable, and hit for a super-effective KO. Iron Head breaks walls, and serves as a fantastic STAB move for use against any enemies that her punches do not cover. U-Turn helps in scouting counters to Jirachi, and as an escape method against the likes of Magnezone. Simply put, she is my favorite Pokemon on the team.

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Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Spe/4 SpA
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Roar

Latias is the late-game sweeper. She comes in on something that does not threaten her, after the opponent's team has taken damage from entry hazards and all major threats to her have been taken care of. She then Calm Minds once, and proceeds to sweep with Dragon Pulse. She can also phaze to build up more damage on the remainders of the enemy team, or to get rid of a threat that I may have missed before bringing her out. She can then Recover to heal off any damage taken, if necessary.

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There it is. Please offer constructive criticism, so that I can perfect the team.

Thanks!
 
Scarf gengar as your spin blocker can anyone say scizor or Ttar to compleatly distroy him and pull this team apart To help solve this swap it for a Rest talk Rotom
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD Bold nature

Rest/Sleeptalk/Thunderbolt/W-o-W

In doing this you can counter Gyrados and Scizor and Ttar with thunderbolt ( gyra) and W-o-W for Ttar and scizor crippling them which also frees up tunderpunch on jarachi to swap for trick which makes you able to cripple skarmory or blissy or some other wall brought in.
 
im not seeing any real point in having 3stall based, and 3 offensive pokes on the same team. IMO u should go 4 a more stall based team. I agree with the above poster's rotom suggestion.
I recommend u change Latias to a wisher with the following moveset
Latias@leftovers
Timid 252hp, 4def, 252 speed
Levitate
-Wish
-Protect
-Dragon Pulse
-Safeguard
Taken from the analysis, with my own personal changes. Safeguard so u dont have to worry bout status from blissey and others while u use wish, protect scouts what scizors and other things are going to do, plus works well with wish. Dragon pulse is the attack, that still does reasonable damage, evrn with no sp.a evs.
I like that Jirachi set, and as u said it was ur fav, u should keep it as it is

Hope I helped,

Bartman101
 
Hm, so a defensive Rotom is preferable to an offensive Gengar then? I used to use a Rotom-H with Rest/Sleep Talk/Thunderbolt/WoW, but he never seemed to actually do much when he was brought out to block a Rapid Spin. I thought up the idea of adding Gengar instead as he could come in on the Rapid Spinner and then hopefully take them out in one blow. He's also single-handedly swept an opponent's whole team for me before with Shadow Ball.
 
Hello. You asked for a rate, so here we go.

Since you have found Rotom-A to be disappointing, I shall not suggest him, but I think at least that Gengar's set could be changed to one more suited to your team. This is a relatively new set that is very effective with Toxic spikes support, beating Blissey and TTar as they switch in, and escaping from Scizor, whilst still having high levels of offensive power and survivability. Obviously it won't block Rapid Spin quite like Rotom, but here it is:

Gengar @ Life Orb
Nature-Timid
EVs-4hp/252SpAtk/252 spe
-Shadow Ball
-Substitute
-Focus Blast
-Pain Split

It's not on site yet, so have a look in C&C.

I quite like this team, which is why I didn't rate it before, but there is one simple thing that I think should be addressed. I think that you should replace HP Electric on Tentacruel. Jirachi can reliably revenge pretty much all Gyarados, and Swampert and Skarmory can wall offensive versions. I would suggest Sludge Bomb - it has good coverage with Surf, and has a chance to poison Gyarados and others as they switch in. Knock Off is also an interesting option.

One final and entirely optional suggestion is to combine the roles of Tentacruel and Skarmory in the form of a Forretress, whilst putting Swampert in the lead position. This would be good if you have any Pokemon that you would like to have in your team that you could not fit in.

Hope I helped and good luck with the team.

(Oh and by the way, there are many more experienced raters than me!)

Edit - in response to below, it might just be a guy with a strong romantic bond to his pokemon.
 
...this isn't so much a criticism as it is a question out of curiosity, are you a girl? =0 Because it's pretty unusual to see anyone describe everyone on his/her entire team as female. (I mean, I usually make at least two members of my team female for variety, but...) *shrug* Just curious as to what the reasoning behind that is.

*ahem* And now, on a more relevant note...

The thing that makes me cringe the most on this team is seeing Scarf Gengar. I agree with Darkvirus, that's just ASKING to be Pursuited by someone like Tyranitar or Scizor who can easily come in on a resisted Shadow Ball and PursuitPWN the crap out of you. Actually, I think a Substitute Gengar would be great on this team... Since that would give him that extra buffer against Pursuit, allowing you to keep Gengar alive longer to force some more switches and passive damage in the process. Plus, if Gengar's gone, there's nothing to stop someone from screwing your whole strategy by spinning away your entry hazards. =0 No, you want a Gengar who can survive longer... I actually really like the set that JC suggested, it's right on the money as to what I'm suggesting and what I think would fit in with your team.

The other thing I'm scratching my head about a little bit is Jirachi... I sort of like your thinking with the three elemental punches alongside Iron Head, but I feel inclined to suggest swapping Thunderpunch for U-turn... T-punch probably has the least useful coverage for you, and I think that the ability to U-turn on Celebi, scout switches, and escape Magnezone would probably prove pretty useful for you. Mebbe try it out, see what you think. =0

On a more positive note, I think you have an excellent collection of types present here with not too many overlapping weaknesses, it seems like they have good synergy, (which is something that I tend to struggle with a little bit) so kudos.
 
Nope, I'm a guy. I just make an effort to make all of my Pokemon female since the default is male. Just for fun, I guess.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions on the Gengar, I'll be sure to try that set out. I'm not opposed to changing him to a Rotom if that really is the best option for the team, it's just that I enjoy the type coverage that Gengar provides. I recently realized, however, that Rotom-h can run HP:Fighting/Overheat/Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt for the same coverage. Thoughts? Are all of these options really just inferior to a Rest-talking Rotom?

I will also be sure to try out U-Turn on Jirachi. I definitely agree that Thunderpunch is the the move I end up using the least.
 
I would've suggested Will-o-wisp, Overheat, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt. EDIT: Bold Nature, 252 hp 168def 88spe. This would probably work quite well. Will-o-wisp is necessary because HP Fighting will not come close to OHKOing Tyranitar, and you need to avoid beink KOed yourself. This will make Tyranitar as good as useless anyway.

And if you take Thunderpunch off you should possibly keep HP Electric. I'm just going to check with some calcs how Tenta performs against BulkyGyara.
EDIT : HP electric manages a guaranteed 2HKO. You, however are 2HKOed by a +1 Stone Edge or Bounce. I think you might need Thunderpunch.
 
I just did some damage calcs and it seems that both Crunch and Pursuit from a CB Tyranitar on a RestTalk Rotom-H do around 110%+. Even if I get WoW off on him, Rotom is going regardless, correct? Is there no way to combat this beast if he switches in on a Spin Blocker?
 
You stay in and WoW. After a will-o-wisp, you will be doing more damage than it is to you by simply attacking if it locks itself into Pursuit. If it locks itself into Crunch you escape.

252 Adamant Burnt Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit
vs. 252/168 Bold Leftovers Rotom-H : 27.6% - 32.2%

160/0 Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar
vs. Bold Leftovers Rotom-H Thunderbolt : 28.3% - 33.3%

Taking into consideration burn damage, you win. The problem is that at the moment Choice Scarf Tyranitar are everywhere and can OHKO you with Crunch if you stay in, so against them it's 50:50
 
I've edited the first post with calcs. You can at least escape from CB Tar even on a double switch. Remember you outrun CB tar so you go first with Will-o-wisp.
 
Okay, I'll try out a Rotom again then. Do you suggest survivability (RestTalk) or some form of a Rotom with type coverage, such as Rotom-H with Overheat/Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt/WoW?

I'll also try out Tentacruel with Sludge Bomb. I can't think of any other Pokemon I would like to use on the team, so I don't see a need for Forretress. I've tried him out before and missed the lack of recovery and phazing. I'm open to suggestions though, if anyone can see a Pokemon that would fit in here and greatly benefit the overall team.
 
Hiya! Nice team!

My first nitpick would be to replace Thunderpunch for U-Turn, since your Tentacruel seems to be luring in Gyarados. By opting for U-Turn, you can scout for common Magnezone switchins to Jirachi, thus saving your revenger safe.

My next suggestion would be to use Swampert as your lead. Your Skarmory isn't packing much Spe to outrun coomon Taunt leads, so it would be a waste to have Skarmory become disfunctional so early in the game. With Swampert as a lead, you can set up SR more reliably.

Another suggestion I would HEAVILY recommend changing would be Rotom-a over Gengar. Although you might not like it, Rotom is actually more bulkier to survive hits as well as spin-block efficiently. You should try a SubCharge set, since it seems that your team is walled by it, and Jirachi won't be liking a T-Wave as it switches in to revenge Blissey. If you don't opt for Rotom, you can always try a Pain Split Gengar, who can also get rid of Blissey switchins, but the downside for Gengar>Rotom would be Speed+Power>Bulk. An advantage for Rotom would also be providing a more better answer to Gyarados than Tentacruel, who is outsped and fears EQ, and Jirachi, who fears EQ as he switches in. Rotom resists or has neutrality to the common moves on Gyarados.

Another suggestion would be to combine both Skarm and Tenta into Forretress, since it seems like their jobs are similar to Forretress' except Tenta's role as a Gyara killer, whom Jirachi does better anyways. This would also free up a spot on your team for something like Vaporeon to pass Wishes as well as provide a second answer to Ape, who destroys your team should Latias be dead early.

Again, nice team. Not really full stall, more like stall-balance..... Good luck!
 
I like all of your suggestions. If I were to switch Skarmory out of the lead position, would I keep the same set? I was thinking of possibly switching out Taunt for Brave Bird, so that Skarm actually has an attack, but I know Taunt is a great tool for ruining sweeps, etc.

Also, which one is Rotom-A? I only see C, F, H, S, and W.
 
Starting by the first two Pokemon you have listed in the OP, the most recommended change to do is to switch places between Skarmory and Swampert. Why is that? You have attempted to build a stall team that at its current level, not precisely need to resort on Skamory as the lead in order to set up the proper and only entry hazards which this team will benefit from. The current line up says that you have no problems at all at using all types of entry hazards and stall-inclined moves, and by going with Skarmory in the lead position you will be just loosing some valuable opportunities in front of other leads such as Infernape, Heatran and even Azelf. So use Swampert as the starter and move Skarm to a middle position. And speaking about the steel bird, now that its aim is not only to outrun slower Pokemon like Metagross, Hippowdon and Swampert, it will need a tweak in its moveset. I want you to try out the following: Taunt - Spikes - Toxic - Roost, and as for EVs something like this should suffice: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe. It may not seem the best sequence of moves and EVs, but having analyzed the team and seeing that you already have two good phazers, the lack of WW on Skarmory won't be too important. In exchange, it'll count with a very effective surprise factor and it will also prevent other Skarmories from setting their own Spikes up in mid-game battles. Toxic complements extremely well with Taunt shutting down important walls such as Hippowdon or Swampert that otherwise Skarmory wouldn't be able to touch.

On the other hand, like almost everyone has pointed out here, Gengar's set isn't the best one available for the team. I would go with Rotom instead if I were you, being more specific try this set out:

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Bold nature | Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpD
Thunderbolt | Will-o-Wisp | Sleep Talk | Rest

The way it functions is simple, its main task is to counter sweepers like DD Gyarados, Agility Metagross and SD Scizor, mainly. By using WoW you'll add another good move to stop the aforementioned sweepers, besides it will prevent Tyranitar and Gliscor from having a free switch in on Rotom. As a spin blocker it does a great job due to its high defenses and good type. So this set should work great for you.

On Jirachi I don't find Ice Punch to be that necessary or important. Salamence can be perfectly managed by simply checking it with Swampert or forcing it to Outrage on Skarm for example (which could Toxic, and stall it to death in case it doesn't pack Fire Blast). In any case, Iron Head isn't bad at all when needing to stop a locked Salamence. U-turn seems to be more beneficial and strategic than Ice Punch, as it allows Jirachi not to lock itself in one of its four moves; also considering how this stall functions (entry hazards, etc) I have no doubt about how good could be U-turn for the team in general.

On Latias, I suggest moving all SpA EVs to HP in order to make a better use of the stallish-like set you're running ;)

I still have other variants for the team, but as for now you should try out what I've suggested and see how it works ;)
Any doubt you have, just PM ;) Good luck.
 
Major changes have been made to the team based on all of your feedback. Please take another look and see if I made a mistake on anything, or if I made a bad change. Thanks!
 
Interesting for Rotom to replace Gengar... I definitely agree that Rotom is better for a stall team than Gengar would be... 'specially if you combine RestTalk with Toxic Spikes.

I just want to point out that, if your old team was working with Skarmory, you shouldn't be too quick to change it. =0 If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? But then again, maybe Forry will work out better for you. *shrug* let us know.

@ not a girl: ...oh. LOL. xP Well it IS different, and I support mixing it up. =w= Was just curious.
 
I've been testing out the new team, and it's doing fairly well. One problem I'm finding is Cresselia. I don't have a single Dark or Ghost move, and the only Bug move on my team, U-Turn, forces Jirachi to switch out. This makes her a huge problem to fight, as she can just stall forever with Moonlight. Any suggestions on how to take her down? Possibly switch Thunderbolt on Rotom for Shadow Ball?

Also, I'm still wondering if I should have Ice Beam or HP: Electric on Vaporeon. Swampert, Vaporeon, and Jirachi all currently have an Ice attack on them, so I don't think I would lose too much coverage against Dragons if I used HP: Electric on Vaporeon, and this would make Vaporeon a better Gyarados counter. If I do keep Ice Beam on her, though, should I switch Ice Punch for Thunderpunch on Jirachi? Advice on this choice would be greatly appreciated as well.
 
Nice team, I noticed that your current forry's set isn't the most efficient for this team since you are lacking a dedictated special wall. I suggest changing it to the Specially Defensive direct from the analysis. By changing it you will be able to set up upon bulky waters, special choiced (neutral and resisted) moves, and others. Well here it is and hope it helps.

Forretress@ Leftovers/Shed Shell
Careful Nature
Evs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 SpD or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Moves: *Keep Same
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I switched to the 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD build with a Careful nature and Shed Shell. Any opinions on the movesets for Vaporeon and Rotom-H?
 
Keep Ice Beam on Vaporeon, or even Roar (this one is a very useful move against opposite stalls and it could help against Cresselia). But you need to keep T-bolt on Rotom in order to counter all that it needs to counter (see my first rate).
One other thing I would recommend to try out is Trick over Ice Punch on Jirachi, since like I mentioned in my previous rate, IP isn't too needed at the moment. Trick shuts down Cresselia with no doubt, as well as other walls.
 
Okay, I added Trick on Jirachi. I just thought of another possible problem with the team, however. I have both Toxic Spikes and Will-o-wisp. If the Pokemon that Rotom switches into, or that switches into Rotom, is effected by Toxic already, then one of Rotom's two attacks is useless. That means that if he's asleep, half of his Sleep Talks are useless. Thoughts?
 
Hey again, I noticed you have surf on Swampert and recommend changing it to earthquake to revenge kill Tyranitar more efficiently since thats a weak surf and hit important steels like Jirachi and Magnezone. Also, on the toxic vs. burn dilemma it really is in scouting your opponent's team and setting up spikes first if its offense oriented.
 
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