Stalling in the Sandbox

[Aura Guardian]

I finally decided to get back onto the ladder, and decided a stallish team would probably be best for me. To my chagrin... it's working. However, I have a crucial vulnerability to Dark attacks, especially from those that can also use Fire or Fighting attacks, so I need help there. Dragons are also a problem.

EDIT: see bottom for update, weaknesses outlined here are outdated. THANK YOU, Harsha!

Formerly on the team

Guard (Deoxys-D) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Recover
- Night Shade

Although Deoxys comes first in the builder, I lead with it about as often as not. Stealth Rock is his main use, though I've found myself relying on Night Shade + Recover once. Taunt is to block enemies from setting up, followed by the Night Recover combo to outlast and outdamage them.

Dead Heat (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Roar

I lead more often with this new-to-the-team mon. Lava Plume is mostly so that Taunt isn't all-destroying for the set, but it is quite useful for utility burning. Stealth Rock is the staple hazard for the Roar strategy - or just for forcing my opponent to switch via walling him with others. Toxic combined with Lava Plume gives me good status damage, with Thunder Wave on Celebi for contingency. Roar is rarely used on Heatran, though that could be because I keep thinking of her as offense rather than defense (something to do with not using stall teams much before this one).

Jelly (Jellicent) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic Taunt
- Shadow Ball Ice Beam


(Pretend I used the Female sprite instead of male.) One of the Pokemon I'm considering replacing is Jellicent. The Recover + Toxic is standard stalling with Scald for Rock or Ground types and maybe the occasional Fire type, as well as Physical Attackers. Shadow Ball is for other Jellicent as well as the odd Psychic type, but I'm considering replacing it with Ice Beam. If I were to replace Jellicent, it would probably be with a Dark or a Dragon type (sadly, I don't see Hydreigon as useful for stall, so I can't pull off both at once).

EDIT: With the new set, I use Recover more for just outlasting in the sandstorm or outlasting due to Heatran's status moves. Ice Beam is used over Shadow Ball for dealing with pesky Grass types that I can outspeed, or for Dragons (Hi, Latias). It also makes for a credible threat.

Gone with some regret

Thorn (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

(Pretend I used the Shiny sprite.) Ferrothorn's main purpose is Spikes and Leech Seed. I use Protect for scouting and for extra HP drain. Gyro Ball is my offensive move so that Taunters will find me a problem. As I lack a spinner, I am considering Ferrothorn -> Forretress.

Fortress (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

I know the special moves are both useful, but I still find myself wishing for Gyro Ball, as when I was using Ferrothorn, that move saved me. However, Volt Switch has proven itself useful (Hi, Trick Room Probopass) and Hidden Power Ice has been useful on contingency. Of course, Rapid Spin is why I have Forretress over Ferrothorn. Spikes are the other hazard for the team because what good is a stall team without multiple hazards? Spikes have been very useful multiple times, as they should be.

Old finisher

Draco (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance


I saw the Dragonite in the featured RMT, and decided to give it a go. With the bulk, I can usually live enough attacks to set up enough to mount a serious threat to my opponents. Substitute + Roost is my standard operating procedure, though I boost with DD any time.

Genie (Landorus) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Landorus certainly pulls his weight. Dragonite did, too, and I miss the Roost stalling potential. However, Swords Dance + already good speed is probably more useful. Substitute has been useful for caution (and for Breloom). One battle I lost could have been won if I chose Earthquake over Stone Edge (re: 20% miss chance), so I'm considering Rock Slide over Stone Edge, but I'm not sure... Opinions?

Forest (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

Celebi certainly has utility, but I only rarely seem to use Celebi for much. Thunder Wave for helping out, but ... I really don't think it helps anyone much except for Dragonite. HP Fire is to deal with Scizor and Ferrothorn, and deal with other pesky Grass or Steel types. Recover is for bulk, and Giga Drain is for more survivability, but I really don't think Celebi is pulling her weight on this team.

Hippo (Hippowdon) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roar
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Hippowdon is reasonably good. I use him most for phazing, though Slack Off + Earth Quake lets him keep in the ring and throw his opponents out. I've used Ice Fang to great effect on Landorus before. Lack of Stealth Rock is because Deoxys-D has it, though I would replace Ice Fang if I were in need of a slot for Stealth Rock. I also find the Sand Stream useful, both for resudual damage and for dealing with weather teams. Hippowdon also works well with Landorus's Sand Force.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a nutshell:
Stall team
Weak to Dark/Ghost attacks well-built Rain teams including Tornadus
No spinner
Dragons are problematic
Thinking of Ferrothorn -> Forretress done
Thinking of replacing Jellicent replaced and/or Celebi

So yeah. First team since rejoining the ladder. Improvements, comments, general advice, and concerns please.

EDIT: THIS TEAM IS NOW WEAK TO TORNADUS. I COULD HAVE JUST MISPLAYED, BUT... help?

 

[Harsha]

Hey,

Saw that this wasn't getting any attention at all so I decided to drop by. This is a solid team, but there are some things I think can be cleared up. First off, stall without a Rapid Spin user is going to be tough to pull off, especially considering that you're trying to run Dragonite. Now some problems that I spot begin with the Pokemon you're using; Deoxys-D is really more fit for hyper offensive teams, even if you're trying to utilize its access to Recover. Some other points to address are your gaping weakness to Substitute Hydreigon and sun teams. I think there are some changes to make that would help you with these. First off, your current lineup can't really take too many Fire-type hits. When combined with Chlorophyll sweepers, sun teams will devastate. In my opinion, the best change to make would be using Heatran over your Deoxys-D, who seems to do the least for your team. With this change, you'd first and foremost retain Stealth Rock, probably the most important aspect of Deoxys-D. However, you'd also get a great answer to sun teams and a stupendous special wall.

Now, for some other changes, I think you'd benefit much more from changing Ferrothorn to Forretress. You've already expressed your disappointment in not having a Rapid Spin user and you feel as though Dragons are problematic; for this reason, Forretress should work out well because it can take Outrage and hit back with Hidden Power Ice while providing the same entry hazard support, along with additional momentum from Volt Switch. For another minor change that comes with your spinblocker, I would suggest using Taunt over Toxic and Ice Beam over Shadow Ball. With Taunt, you can stop opponents from getting too many setup opportunities, and with Ice Beam, Jellicent is no longer sitting bait for Hydreigon. Trust me, every Substitute Hydreigon user is waiting for you to send out Jellicent.

As far as Dragonite is concerned, I don't see your team fully supporting its purpose. Something cool you could try on this team would be Swords Dance Landorus, as its weaknesses area already covered by your team stupendously and because it has the same 4x Ice-type weakness mitigated by Heatran and Jellicent (and Forretress, should you try it). Essentially, that's it.

sets

Landorus @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpA
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Roar

Anyhow, cool team and good luck. I hope I helped!

 

[Aura Guardian]

Thank you for the rate! All the RMTs I've ever posted, except the first in Gen IV OU, have received almost no rates whatsoever. Landorus is doing a bit better than dragonite. While I miss the recovery on my booster, Landorus does better overall. Heatran is much more useful than Deoxys-D, thank you so much! I find myself missing Ferrothorn's abilities, but Forretress is certainly pulling his weight. The changes to Jellicent have changed her to one of my central mons. All changes made, updating OP now.

 

[Sunflora]

Aura Guardian hey ! .. I love a stall so I decided to help, perhaps giving you some ideas. So where to begin .. We begin by whom sect Stealth Rock, and I think the choice is + adequate to give Hippodown to eliminate Ice fang. Remember that "the hippo" has a very important step recovery and may lessen some damage as those salamance @ choice scarf anyway. If we modify a set and we finish with it, if it affects a pokemon a move is already attached and can be "unique" as stealth rock. So it's time for Heatran: okay now you can change "Sr" or protect with Hidden Power [Ice], how you prefer.
Have some evs in speed to overcome the funny Scizor with a speed equal to "191" so for them it will be a bad day haha: P .. Something like 20 evs for safety (195 speed). As I suggested in-BKC-, sorry but I still argue that with Hippodown, Skarmory is the best for proper coverage. On Landorus you'd notice that the counter is that you have not seen Gliscor Hidden Power [Ice] but do not worry since you can enter with Skarmory so easy! .. For the moment, I would recommend this! .. Let me know how you are and good luck!

 

[Harsha]

You shouldn't be having too many problems with rain -- this all points back to playstyle. Make sure you get your hazards down aggressively and then spinblock with Jellicent. Once the hazards are set, you can always beat down Politoed with Celebi and force switches. Hippowdon is there to change the weather to your favor once Polioted is sufficiently weakened, and then you have Heatran to pound down Tornadus should it attempt a sweep. With that spread, Tornadus will struggle to 4HKO Heatran, while you can fish for a Lava Plume burn or phaze it out to rack up hazard damage. Hope this helps, and I'm glad you liked the suggestions.

 

[askjeevs]

hey AG
looks like a solid team overall, but your team looks pretty susceptible (sp?) to status inflictions. Hippowdon is quite the tank, but all it takes is a burn or poision to effectively neuter the threat it brings. to remedy this, try swapping Thunder Wave for Heal Bell on Celebi, I noticed you saying that you didn't really find much use for it other than helping your former Dragonite, so Heal Bell might a better fit.

Another thing i suggest, which is more so for personal preference is a Sub / SD / Smack Down / EQ set instead. that way you're getting 100% accuracy of a rock attack, and can simply hit things with a +2 EQ afterwards (hello Skarmory)

 

[BTzz]

Hi, so I think this team could benefit tremendously from a Choice Scarf Tyranitar over Landorus. Scarf Tyranitar takes care of a ton of pokemon that will bother your team, including Espeon, Xatu, Stallbreaker Mew / Jellicent and CM Reuniclus, which is a significant threat to this team as it can muscle past Celebi and Jellicent. Tyranitar also takes out spin blockers for Forretress as well as Starmie, meaning Jellicent doesnt have to take it on, possibly falling to LO variants. Additionally, Tyranitar outspeeds and OHKOes CB/SD Terrakion (which can beat down your team of you don't predict correctly) and Lati@s which will try to use Celebi as setup bait.

Since Tyranitar can dispose of so many special attackers, you can go ahead and drop some bulk on Heatran. With a spread of 248 HP / 104 SpD / 160 Spe you can outspeed most variants of Scizor and Gliscor. Without Landorus, you'll run into some trouble against opposing stall teams, so I suggest using a Stallbreaker Jellicent. This set utilizes speed along with a combination of WoW + Taunt to wear down common walls. Again, since you have Tyranitar, you can afford to drop some bulk on Jellicent. 84 Speed is enough to outspeed standard Skarmory. Lastly, I would go with 28 Speed EVs on Hippowdon which allows hippo to outspeed 0 Spe Tangrowth, Donphan and Chansey without sacrificing much bulk.

Tyranitar l Sand Stream l Scarf
Jolly l 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Pursuit l Crunch l Superpower l Ice Punch

Jellicent l Water Absorb l Leftovers
Calm l 248 HP / 176 SpD / 84 Spe
Taunt l WoW l Scald l Recover

Hope this helps!