in D/P, nice defensive stats are helpful and all, but great stallers bank on resistances -- you see, this is a main reason why Umbreon is seeing less and less use, and Bronzong is turning into the staller of choice (SOC). you can dress your team up with fancy attackers and all, but you'll get your pokes' feet dirty without a nice pair of SOCs
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Stalling thread.
- Thread starter majesty
- Start date
I think you're confused about what stalling is. Bronzong is hardly going to outstall anything; it only has Rest as a recovery move and limited options for slowing down the pace of the battle outside of Hypnosis.
A team can't be half-stalling, half offensive. Sure, you need defensive Pokemon on every team, but those guys aren't "stallers". They are there to absorb hits, spread status and force switches to allow your attackers to actually do something.
Stalling is definitely possible in DP, a lot of the teams I see in the RMT forum are stallable. One of the reasons you're not seeing more people use such teams is the slowness of wifi battling. In advance, most battles with a stall team last around 70-100+ turns, that would take hours over wifi when you consider stuff like sandstream, leftovers, etc;. I'm sure we'll see more people try out stall teams once competitor comes around.
Like Nas said Stalling is Dead,maybe it was hip hop,but then again who cares the point remains the same it is dead.
1.They are pokes like Infernape,Gallade,Lucario,Electvire who break the key pokes in stalling game Blissey and Skarmory.
2. The Sweepers in metagame hit harder than before they are special attackers that 2ko Blissey and physical attackers that can 2ko skarmory.
3.Stall Teams in d/p basically have to be sandstorm teams or esle they basically get caught in the sandstream .And it is hard to set up stalling team with sandstream in play.Which bring us to the next point
4.Stealth Rocks,Spikes,Toxic Spikes.The stall team will be trying to put these down,but so will the attacking team.Attacking teams can set these up just as easily and they still have sweeping abilities.
You could try to use a pure stall team but d/p is to much geared to offense for it to be real good idea.
1.They are pokes like Infernape,Gallade,Lucario,Electvire who break the key pokes in stalling game Blissey and Skarmory.
2. The Sweepers in metagame hit harder than before they are special attackers that 2ko Blissey and physical attackers that can 2ko skarmory.
3.Stall Teams in d/p basically have to be sandstorm teams or esle they basically get caught in the sandstream .And it is hard to set up stalling team with sandstream in play.Which bring us to the next point
4.Stealth Rocks,Spikes,Toxic Spikes.The stall team will be trying to put these down,but so will the attacking team.Attacking teams can set these up just as easily and they still have sweeping abilities.
You could try to use a pure stall team but d/p is to much geared to offense for it to be real good idea.
That settles it then. Umbreon needs an evolution.
I do not even know, haha.
I do not even know, haha.
I once had a battle that finished in a PP War.
Me and my opponent's teams were pretty offensive, but after I lost my main Special Sweeper killing his Garchomp/Gyardos/OU Stuff, he used a Skarm/Bliss combo to make some SR + Spike Damage and the battle finished in a PP War.
So, a Skarm/Bliss combo was able to kill half of my team through stalling, while top tiers sweepers didn't. It was an amazing battle that ended up with a surprising result...
Maybe some stallers can work, but a staller team probably won't. I mean, using walls that can stall, like Skarm/Bliss did, and also support the team, as a full annoyer will fail.
Me and my opponent's teams were pretty offensive, but after I lost my main Special Sweeper killing his Garchomp/Gyardos/OU Stuff, he used a Skarm/Bliss combo to make some SR + Spike Damage and the battle finished in a PP War.
So, a Skarm/Bliss combo was able to kill half of my team through stalling, while top tiers sweepers didn't. It was an amazing battle that ended up with a surprising result...
Maybe some stallers can work, but a staller team probably won't. I mean, using walls that can stall, like Skarm/Bliss did, and also support the team, as a full annoyer will fail.
<3 Stall
However much I'm a fan of stall, I actually don't like a lot of these sets lol
A lot of what is being posted here will only prolong the fight by wasting PP. That is stalling in the most literal sense, but it doesn't actually do that much, except against certain key pokemon. When you build a team around stalling, you shouldn't just be prolonging the fight. You should be getting closer and closer to winning it every turn, by gradually dealing damage to your opponent, and shrugging off what damage they give you. Which is why you need to actually be causing damage, and not just wasting PP. This is also the reason indirect damage is possibly the most effective way to weaken your opponents when stalling. You're able to do other things (ie. heal, provide team support, etc), while they're getting hurt from switches or status. That's not to say direct damage is a bad thing, but in general the pokes you'll be using will have low s/atk, and won't be able to do much on their own. After prolonging the fight long enough to cause substantial damage, you can bring in a cleaner to wipe things up. But this is common knowledge (and if it isn't, it should be).
Weakening your foe via spikes, stealth rock, sandstorm, burns, seed, toxic (although I don't like to use it much, it's certainly viable), and forcing switches because of roar/ww, encore, seed (again), toxic (again), perish song, and the actual pokemon on your team, while constantly surviving thanks to amazing defenses, typing, and recovery moves... that's more how stall should be run. Now, I pretty much outlined all of the possibilities on a tss team, however, that doesn't mean I think stall should be limited to tss; in fact, I rarely ran tss in advance (preparing for it is a different story).
@Forsety: I agree with that rule of thumb of keeping an attacking move on pokes, since oftentimes you will be stuck there doing nothing, and I often found myself going for some direct damage in adv, although I disagree with your claim of taunt screwing stuff up. Sure, it might force skarm out on occasion, but in general, there are only a few pokemon that actually are likely to carry taunt, and those pokes are ones you will want to be attacking. I also disagree with your sub comment. One attack and it goes down, from where you can use all the WoWs and seeds you want, or even better, roar/ww the poke out instead, making them waste 25% of their hp for nothing.
However much I'm a fan of stall, I actually don't like a lot of these sets lol
A lot of what is being posted here will only prolong the fight by wasting PP. That is stalling in the most literal sense, but it doesn't actually do that much, except against certain key pokemon. When you build a team around stalling, you shouldn't just be prolonging the fight. You should be getting closer and closer to winning it every turn, by gradually dealing damage to your opponent, and shrugging off what damage they give you. Which is why you need to actually be causing damage, and not just wasting PP. This is also the reason indirect damage is possibly the most effective way to weaken your opponents when stalling. You're able to do other things (ie. heal, provide team support, etc), while they're getting hurt from switches or status. That's not to say direct damage is a bad thing, but in general the pokes you'll be using will have low s/atk, and won't be able to do much on their own. After prolonging the fight long enough to cause substantial damage, you can bring in a cleaner to wipe things up. But this is common knowledge (and if it isn't, it should be).
Weakening your foe via spikes, stealth rock, sandstorm, burns, seed, toxic (although I don't like to use it much, it's certainly viable), and forcing switches because of roar/ww, encore, seed (again), toxic (again), perish song, and the actual pokemon on your team, while constantly surviving thanks to amazing defenses, typing, and recovery moves... that's more how stall should be run. Now, I pretty much outlined all of the possibilities on a tss team, however, that doesn't mean I think stall should be limited to tss; in fact, I rarely ran tss in advance (preparing for it is a different story).
@Forsety: I agree with that rule of thumb of keeping an attacking move on pokes, since oftentimes you will be stuck there doing nothing, and I often found myself going for some direct damage in adv, although I disagree with your claim of taunt screwing stuff up. Sure, it might force skarm out on occasion, but in general, there are only a few pokemon that actually are likely to carry taunt, and those pokes are ones you will want to be attacking. I also disagree with your sub comment. One attack and it goes down, from where you can use all the WoWs and seeds you want, or even better, roar/ww the poke out instead, making them waste 25% of their hp for nothing.
Wow all teh way back in APRIL 2007 you were saying DP was gonna be an offensive metagame? Can I get you to make some stock predictions for me, your obviously Nostradamus incarnate.
As an aside leafgreen I don't know how you can argue that direct damage can be outdone by passive damage this gen.
Think about it. On a stall team, 2/3 of your team has a s/atk stat around or below 250. The other two (or maybe even one) will actually be able to deal large amounts of direct damage. Unless the attack is SE and STABed (or just SE, meh), you won't be doing a real lot. For a defensive team, indirect damage will do far more in the long run, right up until the last couple turns of battle when you finish their remaining pokes with your cleaner.
But I didn't say to not use direct damage with a stall team. I use it very frequently in adv, although the majority of damage done is indirect.
But I didn't say to not use direct damage with a stall team. I use it very frequently in adv, although the majority of damage done is indirect.
"Wow all teh way back in APRIL 2007 you were saying DP was gonna be an offensive metagame? Can I get you to make some stock predictions for me, your obviously Nostradamus incarnate"
Real cute. This was when I didn't have the game and was just casually perusing things. Obviously if someone with zero experience with the new gen can observe it, it's got to have something to it. I personally prefer playing a game that doesn't involve sweeping for everything. It's like we've reverted back to RBY...Hence why I started the thread, to see what the options for a bit different pokemon teams would be.
Oh yes, as for stocks...your moms stock is going down cause I nailed her too much. Jokin' man. Her stock will never go down.
Real cute. This was when I didn't have the game and was just casually perusing things. Obviously if someone with zero experience with the new gen can observe it, it's got to have something to it. I personally prefer playing a game that doesn't involve sweeping for everything. It's like we've reverted back to RBY...Hence why I started the thread, to see what the options for a bit different pokemon teams would be.
Oh yes, as for stocks...your moms stock is going down cause I nailed her too much. Jokin' man. Her stock will never go down.
Will O Wisp + Sandstorm + Spikes + Stealth Rock
Once all of those are in play, your going to go down fairly quickly, though it will take some time to set up, it is still a viable threat.
And your comment was highly egotistical/bragging about something stupid and he called you on it, nothing more. Even if he did do it in a sarcastic way, you still had it coming with that sentence.
Once all of those are in play, your going to go down fairly quickly, though it will take some time to set up, it is still a viable threat.
And your comment was highly egotistical/bragging about something stupid and he called you on it, nothing more. Even if he did do it in a sarcastic way, you still had it coming with that sentence.
i see a lot of Skarmory's carrying Shed Shell these days.
I think you guys are missing the point . . . the reason you would use a stall team is not to keep yourself alive forever, it's to win the game (Assuming you are rational, the only reason you would use team X is because you think it is the team with the best chance of winning in metagame Y). The ONLY difference between a stall team and an offensive team, in the end, is in the method they use to win. Offensive teams use stat-up moves and attacks to win, stall teams use status and Spikes. This is a pretty big difference, though, as the entire team is shaped around that path to victory, whether it be by indirect damage or direct damage.
One of the defining factors of a stall team, in my opinion, is their lack of damaging moves. Instead of investing 16-20 slots on direct attacks, a stall team can devote two slots to attacks (Spikes and Stealth Rock), and twenty-two slots to keeping itself alive. Now obviously the stall team will want more than just a couple attacking moves, but I think this perfectly illustrates what makes stall teams good: their focus. Unlike most of the stuff in the RMT forum, stall teams have a coherent gameplan and I think that is what makes them so good.
I will 100% disagree with Luck's statement that stall is dead in D/P. I see a TON of topics in the RMT forum that would roll over and die to a dedicated stall team, even those with three Choice Banders.
One of the defining factors of a stall team, in my opinion, is their lack of damaging moves. Instead of investing 16-20 slots on direct attacks, a stall team can devote two slots to attacks (Spikes and Stealth Rock), and twenty-two slots to keeping itself alive. Now obviously the stall team will want more than just a couple attacking moves, but I think this perfectly illustrates what makes stall teams good: their focus. Unlike most of the stuff in the RMT forum, stall teams have a coherent gameplan and I think that is what makes them so good.
I will 100% disagree with Luck's statement that stall is dead in D/P. I see a TON of topics in the RMT forum that would roll over and die to a dedicated stall team, even those with three Choice Banders.
I like how the more rational you are the more likely you are to assign arbitrary variables to things.
And don't forget about protect... if you're relying on indirect damage-per-turn, protect basically doubles the damage you're dealing (and does other nice things such as locking in choice users, scouting, etc...)
No, it just makes me feel cool to say TEAM X!
As for Protect: Assuming your main source of indirect damage is from Spikes, you want them to be switching. Protect seems kind of counterintuitive if you're opponent will be switching anyway . . .
That's not really the point. Stalling teams try to absorb the blows from more offensive teams and recover off the damage, all the while whittling down the opposition. A trapped, Toxic'd Ludicolo repeatedly Surfing a Wishing Umbreon may certainly outdo it in damage, but it will ultimately succumb to the poison.
I agree with this. In Advanced, Suicune and Milotic were two of the most used stallers. But now they are being very few used. Swampert is used more than these 2 bulky waters for its resistances.
Now at the time of stalling, the defensive stats continue to be important, but the resistances are now more important.
I agree. However, a well placed staller can be a gamebreaker, even in this new generation. Something, perhaps, with roar/whirlwind, toxic spikes, rest/protect and STAB With lefties as an item could be interesting, no?
What are the odds protect could be useful in this generation? I know a toxic/protect is all you need to eliminate a slaking (duh)
COalex: can you give us some specific examples of when some choice banders wouldn't roll through a couple of stallers? I can't think of any though I know they must exist.
What are the odds protect could be useful in this generation? I know a toxic/protect is all you need to eliminate a slaking (duh)
COalex: can you give us some specific examples of when some choice banders wouldn't roll through a couple of stallers? I can't think of any though I know they must exist.
I both agree and disagree with Luck’s arguments. I agree that a team filled with slow stallers is unlikely to work anymore due to the sheer number of fast, hard hitters. However, I completely disagree on the argument that stalling is dead. I am still trying to find a 100% counter to Pressuredactyl due to its incredible speed and ability to manipulate the opponent. In fact, every single one of Luck’s list of Skarmbliss killers is utterly demolished by Aero’s Ground/Flying combo, and status users/PHazers ae utterly immobilized by Sub and Taunt.
You could always use a Trick Roomer (like Bronzong, who is also a good wall) to screw over the opponent's fast sweepers.
Aerodactyl is Rock/Flying. (You said Ground/Flying; are you actually referring to his movesets?)
yup ,I am guessing Sub,Taunt,Fly/Aerial Ace,EQ.Which does nothing most water types which have ice beam and surf and will let Aero sub itself to death by attacking it.At end of the exchange water types have very little pp surf or ice beam and Aero has very little health and unable beat another poke unless it is passed wish.
Yes, I meant Fly/Earthquake, but Aero could carry Roost over Earthquake to stall Ice Beams out of PP. But you're right, Aero can't stall Surfs forever, although Sandstorm could allow it to take one hit at near full health. As for adman2's point about Trick Room, that is easily Taunted before Bronzong can even blink.
That is true, yes, but that's why you don't bring out Bronzong first (unless you're talking about an Aerodactyl counter, which is another argument altogether), and most people use Gyarados as their Taunter (the element of surprise diminishes somewhat because of this).
Well yes, every man and their dog uses Taunt on Gyarados, but that has nothing to do with stalling. Also, there is no such thing as Taunt Clause, so there is no reason why you can't have Aero and Gyara both carrying Taunt on the same team.