Status stall

Thanks. I'll try and move some momsters around and see what happens. I'm still wondering if Pulse's reservations about being able to whittle down opposing Mega Venusaurs are addressed by the addition of HP fire on Venusaur? Also, would I need to drop Speed IVs on Aegislash to power-up Gyro Ball as nmitchell suggested?
 
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Hey! This team has gotten some attention, and I don't really think if there's anything I can contribute. This team is quite the archtype of stall, and all the relevent threats have been covered in my opinion. Some minor notions still.

I don't think you need those 8 EVs in Speed, as even if you outspeed other Heatran, there's nothing you can do to them. What I do suggest is that if you want to run Speed, run 40 EVs, so you outspeed M-Mawile. Also, consider using Relaxed nature on Quagsire, as you really don't need the Speed, and Impish lowers your SpA. I would also prefer Leech Seed over HP Fire on M-Venu, but that's more of a personal preference. Also, why do you run Calm nature on Chansey? Even if it is your special wall, switching to Bold nature won't mean anything in terms of damage from the special side, but Bold lets you take physical hits just that much better. I would also advocate for the SubToxic Aegislash mentioned eariler, and I'm gonna put down the set just for reminder.
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: King's Shield
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Substitute
ability: Stance Change
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
evs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpA

I think Landorus is the biggest threat to the team as Ash mentioned, but overall, I think the team is solid. Good luck in your battles!
 
Thank you for your comments. I've implemented most of those changes though I'm happy with HP Fire on Venusaur and the EV setup on Aegislash. I find with clever play Substitute isn't as necessary as you might think. At least, for me. The EVs on Heatran will prove to be especially useful!

I'm currently testing adding Togekiss in place of Aegislash:

Togekiss (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0
- Toxic
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost

As a check to Landorus-I. Thoughts?
 
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Good team you have their! One thing I just wanted to mention about Togekiss is it loses to Sludge Wave Lando-I... Which is definitely something to watch out for.

Anyways, I'm to agree that if you decide to keep Aegislash, you should 100% be running SubToxic, or, at the very least, a set with Shadow Ball as the main STAB.

Finally I like your Togekiss set for the most part. Dazzling Gleam is unnecessary, as it isn't really hitting anything noteworthy, so I'd swap it for Heal Bell on Togekiss. I also feel as though you'd prefer Thunder Wave over Toxic on it, as A. It stops faster set-up sweepers cold and B. It lets you abuse ParaFlinch.

Also if you do decide to run Heal Bell on Togekiss, you should then probably run Wish Chansey to help heal Pokemon such as Heatran when they start to get worn down.

Other then that, though, this looks like a very effective stall team that seems to have a lot of the main threats covered! :) Good job!
 
Hey man, I got your VM. I feel that it is hard for me to rate this team since so many people already covered what I would talk about. I would really mirror what Darnell said and follow his sets.
 
Hey there, I got your VM. I would suggest changing your Venusaur set to something more... Stally if you know what I mean. Adding Leech Seed would make it all more annoying, and the passive recovery can cushion some hits if you switch out. Earthquake hits Heatran hard, as it is one of the best counters to Venusaur, and no one expects Earthquake on a stally pokemon. It's really up to you on what move to use. Here's the set:

Venusaur (F) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SDef
Impish Nature
- Synthesis
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed/Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb

Your team looks good, otherwise. Good luck!
 
Thank you all. Togekiss is definately proving more effective than Aegislash and the suggestion of running Heal Bell on Togekiss and Wish on Chansey has greatly imporoved Heatrans longevity (and it wasn't bad to start with). Now its a matter of ParaFlinch vs Toxic. True Togekiss can be hit with Sludge Wave but this means its not carrying a move to repel either Chansey or Venusaur which it will allow me to wall it.
 
Arutha19 said:
Thank you all. Togekiss is definately proving more effective than Aegislash and the suggestion of running Heal Bell on Togekiss and Wish on Chansey has greatly imporoved Heatrans longevity (and it wasn't bad to start with). Now its a matter of ParaFlinch vs Toxic. True Togekiss can be hit with Sludge Wave but this means its not carrying a move to repel either Chansey or Venusaur which it will allow me to wall it.
Click to expand...

Yeah IMO keep Togekiss, Aegislash isn't doing anything for your team except spinblocking and the only relevant spinner, Excadrill, beats it anyways.
 
Alright I finally got around to addressing your request, thank you for your patience. This is a very good stall team, but I see a couple of major issues. The first is that you lack a win condition. WinCons are important to stall for a couple of reasons. Firstly, they help to finish off worn down teams fairly quickly, but also act as Stallbreakers. The problem is that opposing stall teams are on equal ground with you, and thus you only have a 50/50 chance to win. WinCons typically are bulkier, and have methods of avoiding residual damage. Opposing Mega Venusaur cause you massive trouble, easily 6-0'ing your entire team atm. Outside of this, this is a very good OU stall team with little threats, but some of the individual sets need improvement.

The clear weak link on the team is Togekiss, who isn't doing much right now outside of heal bell. As I said you need a win condition, so I suggest Calm Mind Clefable, who not only acts as an amazing stall breaker and status absorber via Magic Guard, but is bulky enough to weather multiple hits like your other walls, and for that reason plays largely like a stall mon. It is also key in beating HO, as it can put pressure on them not to set up in case you lose Quagsire.

Minor Changes:
Skarmory: Brave Bird > Taunt, as you have defog so you shouldn't be worried about hazards. More importantly, it prevents you from being Taunt bait, and allows you to win if you have Skarm left as your last pokemon. It also beats the threat Mega Venusaur is to your team I stated earlier with little drawback.
Venusaur: Leech Seed / Roar / Earthquake > Hidden Power [Fire], as it does near nothing to steel types anyways, and further benefits Heatran who already walls you. Leech Seed and Roar are the epitomes of StallSaur, helping you to phaze to get out sweepers, or to nab chip health along a match. EQ offers far better coverage on steels than HP fire, but if you go with it use Relaxed.
Chansey: Aromatherapy > Toxic cause I replaced Togekiss, and S-Toss is enough normally.

Cool team!
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Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Flamethrower / Toxic
- Calm Mind
 
To be honest I've got little to say either. I was going to suggest Brave Bird on Skarm or packing a stall-breaker but that already got mentioned. Brawlfest's post covers most of what I would say, since having a cleaner for end-game when your opponent's team is really worn down by toxic is probably going to help.
 
Hey Arutha19, so sorry for the long wait but I have been quite busy with college. Anyway on to the team; it is very solid in it's type synergy and in the amount of things that it checks/counters. Just a couple things on some sets you have:

1. Consider Haze on Quagsire as an alternative to EQ
Earthquake can be very good and a quick way of killing things like Aegislash or Heatran but Haze provides a very good answer to set up sweepers and Baton Pass based teams on top of Unaware. They can sit there boosting and Baton Pass to the next Pokemon while you Haze and remove the boosts and hinder their chances of winning. Alongside crippling Baton Pass teams you can also remove the boosts of a Pokemon just before you die to enable your team to better deal with the former boosted threat.

2. Swap out HP Fire for Leech Seed on Mega Venusaur
Going to agree with Attack Order on this one simply because she is right. Hidden Power Fire does literally nothing for you or at least the positive doesn't outweigh the negative when compared to Leech Seed. HP Fire allows you to hit Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Aegislash decently but they will either hit you harder then you hit them or just switch into something else before you are able to deal damage. Ferrothorn and Scizor almost never swap into a Mega Venusaur and while Aegislash can, it takes minimal damage from HP Fire and would be much more crippled by Leech Seed. Earthquake is also a pretty solid suggestion as it hits harder than HP Fire on Aegislash and you can now hit Heatran. In any case Leech Seed is the best option in that last slot for the amount of utility it can bring to your team.

3. Change Taunt on Skarmory to Counter
Taunt is cool and all but in running as much speed as you were to get a Taunt off hurt it's overall bulk. On top of that you take a ton of damage from things like a boosted Bisharp and would OHKO back with counter, whereas now you would either Roost to mitigate some of the damage or simply Whirlwind him out to the next threat. Common threats like Garchomp or Mega Charizard-X with get destroyed by a well timed Counter and will die before it kills half of your team. On another note you are sacrificing too much bulk for far too little of a return, especially when other Pokemon can provide stall teams with a better, faster Taunt with not as much speed investment (Mandibuzz, Sableye, Mew to name a few).

Pretty much all I had. Very well built team and good luck in the future.
 
Again, thank you all. I have updated the OP once more to include all the changes and I've further expanded explanations of the movesets chosen, including some of the points you guys have raised. This is truly shaping up to be a formidable squad!
 
In reply to those who had reservations about the lack of win condition on the team what if I added the following Suicune set in Quagsires place:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
- Scald

Acts as a Calm Mind sweeper, Rest-Talk pp staller, potential status absorber and bulky physically defensive water all at the same time.

Whaddya think??
 
Arutha19 said:
In reply to those who had reservations about the lack of win condition on the team what if I added the following Suicune set in Quagsires place:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
- Scald

Acts as a Calm Mind sweeper, Rest-Talk pp staller, potential status absorber and bulky physically defensive water all at the same time.

Whaddya think??
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No as you become very weak to common setup sweepers which the rest of your team is unable to handle e.g. SD Talonflame or Shell Smash Cloyster. It also makes you far more susceptible to electric type moves, leaving only Venusaur to absorb them.

At the end of the day, your weakest link is Togekiss, so I would look into replacing it.
 
Hey, sorry it's taken me so long to get to this.

This is actually a really solid stall team. There aren't many things that I can suggest that haven't already been suggested. Most things you can play around, but sometimes in real battle positions, I can see this team having some issues. I agree with Nog that you should use Counter>Taunt on Skarmory. This makes it easier for you to take on Azumarill, Mega Mawile, Bisharp and others. Otherwise these Pokemon can break through other Pokemon on your team pretty easily. With that said, I wouldn't switch Quagsire to Suicune. It doesn't really help your team at all outside of giving you a win condition and it makes you much more vulnerable to offensive DD Charizard X. Sorry this isn't a very good rate, but as I said before, most of what I have to say has been said by others and this is already a solid team.

Hope I was able to help, good luck with the team!
 
At this point, this already seems like a really good stall team, and very similar to mine except for a few things like Skarmory vs Mandibuzz. However, I do have one suggestion. This could be more for personal preference, but with the ridiculous amount that knock off is spammed these days, I would switch Chansey for Blissey. You don't lack physical bulk and eventually all the knock offs can easily wear Venusaur down. In Venusaur stall, the weakest point is always the shortage of pp on Synthesis, so the less you have it bring him in when you don't need too the better, and wish passing haas a tendency to be fairly unreliable. I've actually won several matches just by pp stalling Venusaur over about 150 turns, not that it was fun.
 
Okay, I caved. Calm Mind specially defensive Clefable is bulkier than Togekiss and the fairy-type move is very handy indeed. After a couple of Calm Minds its almost as bulky as Chansey and Mooblast hits ridiculously hard. This is the current set:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 SAtk
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm Nature
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast

As usual, any comments/criticisms are welcome.

As for the Chansey vs Blissey idea: I'll test it, but I can usually predict a Knock-off (though not with 100% accuracy).
I'm also re-testing Counter on Skarmory over Taunt
I'll let you all know how it all turns out!
 
Arutha19 said:
Okay, I caved. Calm Mind specially defensive Clefable is bulkier than Togekiss and the fairy-type move is very handy indeed. After a couple of Calm Minds its almost as bulky as Chansey and Mooblast hits ridiculously hard. This is the current set:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 SAtk
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm Nature
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast

As usual, any comments/criticisms are welcome.

As for the Chansey vs Blissey idea: I'll test it, but I can usually predict a Knock-off (though not with 100% accuracy).
I'm also re-testing Counter on Skarmory over Taunt
I'll let you all know how it all turns out!
Click to expand...
You don't need to run 0 attack IVs, not even for Foul Play as you aren't going to be taking s*** from it anyway. Other than that, good set. Next thing to look into is seeing weather there are better EVs you could run. I'm not very good at this, so I will leave this up to others, but other than that solid team.
 
One thing I'm stunned nobody has mentioned is moonlight on clefable. Quagsire has unaware, I'd say definitely go with magic guard on Clef so you can use softboiled and absorb toxics and will o wisps and all that jazz.

Softboiled>moonlight, and with Unaware on Quag, that's what I really recommend
 
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