Status-users and what makes them tick (other people off)

twilightwolf90

We all understand the importance of status in teams, but which ones are the best? Who are the best users? Why do they piss off so many people? (TOGEKISS PARAHAX XD)

The goal of this discussion is to find the best status and the best users and explain why they are so good (and if the pink whore shows its face here, I will kill... someone).

Personally, I think that paralysis and burn are the best conditions to smack a team with thanks to their stat-reducing capabilities. I don't rely on sleep for a set-up because you cannot predict when the opponent's pokemon is going to wake up and OHKO you into oblivion (singbliss, that was for you). So, I use a double-status max speed Gallade for all of my needs.

Gallade@Wide Lens
Jolly~252 Spd/252 broken into defenses and/or HP OR 252 Atk/4 in some other stat.
Close Combat
Night Slash/Psycho Cut
Will-o-Wisp
Thunder Wave

I use Twave first then follow with WOW b/c when people switch, they switch in something that absorbs Twave (usually). Name one pokemon that absorbs Twave that doesn't mind WOW. Last I checked, there wasn't one.


So that's my input, let's hear what you have got to say!
 
Breloom is a very annoying sleeper because with Spore, it's guaranteed to hit, so then it can pull off a substitute and do a REALLY painful Focus Punch...
 
This one could be fun.

Jolteon @ Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Trait: Volt Absorb
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
-Thunder Wave
-Charm
-Fake Tears
-Charge Beam
 
I have to agree with Bologo. If you sacrifice something to switch Breloom in on something weak to Grass/Fighting (which is a lot, actually), it's speed can almost always sleep regardless of whether or not you switch, sub on the next turn, and Focus Punch you while you switch/sleep. My teams always seem to have said weakness. -_-

Ninetales can Hypnosis/WoW as well,

As for Paralysis vs. Sleep, it's really situational. Obviously you want to Paralyze a quick sweeper, but if it poses a huge threat to your team, there's nothing wrong with Sleeping it to force a switch or take damage.
 
If you asked me though, Gengar>Ninetails b/c of immunities and higher speed.

That's it, Breloom is going over Froslass in my team... it's too good to pass up XD... (but then I have 4 flying weaks... RMT time!!!)

I liked Froslass with Twave b/c it is immune to normal and fighting attacks and ground-types do not like switching into a STAB Ice Beam, not to mention Tbolt. But her downfall is her lowish speed; at max it's only 350, putting it just below Gengar which can OHKO her with STAB. Electivire can't hit it for SE for kicks.
 
twilightwolf90 said:
If you asked me though, Gengar>Ninetails b/c of immunities and higher speed.

That's it, Breloom is going over Froslass in my team... it's too good to pass up XD... (but then I have 4 flying weaks... RMT time!!!)

I liked Froslass with Twave b/c it is immune to normal and fighting attacks and ground-types do not like switching into a STAB Ice Beam, not to mention Tbolt. But her downfall is her lowish speed; at max it's only 350, putting it just below Gengar which can OHKO her with STAB. Electivire can't hit it for SE for kicks.
Click to expand...

Ninetails has that sexy Nasty Plot though, which it can use on the switch.
 
I'm exceptionally fond of psuedo-status like curse and leech seed. You could curse, knocking yourself out on the same turn, and bring in a good pogey that can take advantage of set-up rather well, at which point, curse can either A: hurt your opponent significantly or B: Force them to switch out, giving you a free turn. I also like leech seed because you can use it, then switch out to your counter, and the counter gets the leech-seed bonus. Confusion also pairs nicely against psychic and ghost types who are notorious for carrying focus-blast. It takes their crappy accuracy and lowers it even further. I think out of all the status I fear, I fear confusion the most; you A: risk getting killed because you can't attack, B: risk letting your opponent set up on you as you switch, C: All of the above.
 
Quoted from Ikaeru: "I'm exceptionally fond of psuedo-status like curse and leech seed. You could curse, knocking yourself out on the same turn, and bring in a good pogey that can take advantage of set-up rather well, at which point, curse can either A: hurt your opponent significantly or B: Force them to switch out, giving you a free turn.

Amen to that. If you follow that train of thought, Memento does as much wonders as Curse (ghost-type, I'd assume). It sets up wonderfully.

Often, people will test the waters of an obviously status-oriented poke by bringing a natural cure pokemon like Blissey of Starmie and then switch to an appropriate counter like Electivire for Twave or Heracross for WoW. That's probably when doublestatusers become very potent and annoying...
 
twilightwolf90 said:
If you asked me though, Gengar>Ninetails b/c of immunities and higher speed.

That's it, Breloom is going over Froslass in my team... it's too good to pass up XD... (but then I have 4 flying weaks... RMT time!!!)

I liked Froslass with Twave b/c it is immune to normal and fighting attacks and ground-types do not like switching into a STAB Ice Beam, not to mention Tbolt. But her downfall is her lowish speed; at max it's only 350, putting it just below Gengar which can OHKO her with STAB. Electivire can't hit it for SE for kicks.
Click to expand...

Actually, froslass ties with gengar for speed, but I'm not sure if she can OHKO gengar if she gets lucky with the RNG.
 
Personally, I can't stand some of the luck-based statuses, most notably confusion and full paralysis, just because they always seem to destroy my plans at the exact wrong time. Flinching isn't fun, either. Of course, those very things can be the most fun to pull on other people...

Anyway, I'm currently finding that Curse is great fun to pull on people, especially ones expecting to absorb a WoW. With SR and a couple layers of spikes loaded up, you can force the enemy to make a tough choice about whether to stay in for the kill and get crippled or switch out and get hit by residual damage on the turn. Stun Spore / Twave is also a wonderful status-inducing move, as it allows you to gain the upper hand on the following turn, making it a no-lose situation in the case of slower pokes.

And then there's sleep. :p
 
Curse IS great fun, whether you stay in or not. Curse without self-death is wonderful mixed with pain-split. It's exceptionally handy if used in mismagius, since she's usually rather fast.

Curse, cutting HP as they switch into an expected status... pain-split it up, and watch as they either switch out, getting you more HP and doing new and shiny damage to them, OR healing yourself while curse+pain-split goes on its way to kill them.

On the flip-side, dusknoir and its abysmal base HP, if it can survive a hit, anyway, could actually KO a poke on turn two with pain-split/curse, healing itself simultaneously.

Curse with self-death, I find, anyway, can be more handy than memento (whilethough memento IS amazing) primarily because memento, whilethough a major killer of attackers (burn for spatk, anyone) curse can actually force a wall to switch out, which is something that you can't usually manage if they're carrying rest (No toxic...) On the flip side, if they stay in, they're likely to die because of the damage, wall or not.
 
Quoted from nomargu46:"Blissey. an annoying-as-fuck pokemon anyway, but needing to watch out for Thunderwave AND Sing is just a bitch."

Fortunately, no one runs singbliss due to accuracy reasons... and most (not Froslass) pokemon mentioned have little problem (Okay, Gengar might have a little problem... but fight resist and Focus Blast makes the pink whore think twice) toppling her. And btw, I just shot my brother... see the first post...

jk

EDIT~ Any good G-curse (ghost curse not the stat curse I was thinking of a minute ago) sets out there? Can I have one? :D
 
Really? I run Sing Blissey. Anyway, sets like

Jolteon @ Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Trait: Volt Absorb
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
-Thunder Wave
-Charm
-Fake Tears
-Charge Beam
Click to expand...
have no place in this thread. Let's talk about status in the context of a real competitive match, no gimmick sets please.

I find the single most useful status is Toxic, especially on random Pokemon that lure out walls. It was especially helpful on Pokemon that attracted bulky waters in ADV and I have no doubt that it will end up seeing use in DP too.

edit:

Gallade@Wide Lens
Jolly~252 Spd/252 broken into defenses and/or HP OR 252 Atk/4 in some other stat.
Close Combat
Night Slash/Psycho Cut
Will-o-Wisp
Thunder Wave

I use Twave first then follow with WOW b/c when people switch, they switch in something that absorbs Twave (usually). Name one pokemon that absorbs Twave that doesn't mind WOW. Last I checked, there wasn't one.
Click to expand...

What on earth are you talking about? Oh cool, I switched in Celebi into a Thunder Wave. Now... I leave it in and use a move. That kind of tactic only works with sleep, as the counter someone switches in is incapitated and hence has to switch out or die.
 
I've been using Toxic on completely random shit like Starmie for my stall team, and it's incredible. Starmie draws out the rapid-spin blockers like Dusknoir and hits them with Toxic (also useful for people that like to keep random Swamperts in and earthquake). Somehow, it seems to draw a lot of Cresselia too, which Toxic is awesome for...anyway.

Of course, it has problems with the true DP Starmie blockers (Pursuiters, especially Weavile), but nothing is perfect. In conclusion, Toxic is awesome.
 
@Surgo, I've been playing Shoddy for months and looked at RMTs for weeks and never have I seen a singbliss (although chaos proved me wrong... thanks)... However, I'm still considered noob here...

@chaos, That set makes me cry...it's annoying and terrible... and in the wrong place as you said. Toxic is the best single status? but what pokemon would be best to utilize it? There just isn't enough moveslots on pokemon to make everything happen (JUST ADD ONE MORE GAMEFREAK AND MY DREAMS WOULD COME TRUE >.<) I can see Blissey just curing it away... not to mention Shaymin, Celebi, etc.

Meh

EDIT~whoops a little slow today...
 
So a Starmie@leftovers
Rapid Spin
Toxic
Recover
Surf/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt

would be a set for stallmie? (of course I can't design evs for beans, or anything else for that matter)
 
twilightwolf90 said:
Quoted from nomargu46:"Blissey. an annoying-as-fuck pokemon anyway, but needing to watch out for Thunderwave AND Sing is just a bitch."

Fortunately, no one runs singbliss due to accuracy reasons... and most (not Froslass) pokemon mentioned have little problem (Okay, Gengar might have a little problem... but fight resist and Focus Blast makes the pink whore think twice) toppling her. And btw, I just shot my brother... see the first post...

jk

EDIT~ Any good G-curse (ghost curse not the stat curse I was thinking of a minute ago) sets out there? Can I have one? :D
Click to expand...

Alright, this is something I was tossing together recently, so I'm still trying to deal with potential issues. No finalized EV calcs yet. The emphasis would be on def/sdef and a tiny bit of atk, and of course, NO HP.

Dusknior:
Nature: Relaxed/Sassy
EVs: 252 in lesser def-stat , 132 in personality-boosted stat, 126 atk
Item: Leftovers (You still need to survive, all things aside. Curse will keep your HP down low enough for pain-split, don't worry.)
  • Curse
  • Pain Split
  • Focus Punch
  • WoW
What you can do is send this sucker out and use curse as they bring in their WoW-absorber, at which point, when and if they send something else out to avoid the curse-damage, you can use either WoW to kill their incoming attacker's physical attack, OR if you're facing an intellegent opponent, you can use pain-split or focus-punch to punish the foe's hp.
The entire focus of this set is using curse to force a switch; if that doesn't work, high-hp pokeys will be severly hurt.

Example, whilethough NOBODY would keep/send a blissey in against a dusknoir, the potency of this set can be illustrated:

Max-HP Blissey comes in and gets cursed, losing 1/4 of her hp as the turn ends. Turn two begins and blissey uses ice-beam, hurting dusknoir even more. Dusknoir uses painsplit, and sucks blissey's health down to below 139 (approx) hitpoints. Even if she did nothing (Read as: thunderwave) she'd be left with only 139 hp at the end of the second turn (not including leftovers.) Unless they use rest, (Pain-split fodder,) if they stay in for three turns, they die. If they decide they NEED to kill dusky (hopefully survives 2 turns), she's taking them with her.

Pair this set with a full layer of spikes/SR and suddenly, you're very likely to get at least a couple of kills. Oh, and dusky's ghost-type blocks rapid-spin too, making this a multi-use pokemon. Get your skarm out and dusk in as they bring in their spinner, and you're almost guaranteed some niceness with curse/painsplit/forced switches. Donphan will almost always switch out, as it's afraid of ice-punch. Claydol says hello. Starmie... dunno if it can survive standard thunderpunch. (YES I KNOW I DON'T HAVE THESE. The opponent doesn't know that yet, though, making the not keen on staying in. They probably can't see any alternative to boltbeam-punch on dusky.)

If you're desperately short on HP after a kill (or two!), you can always just pain-split instead of cursing an incoming pokey. This set also benefits from wish-support, as beginning with full HP can help. A word of warning, though:

If you do decide to run MINUMUM hp (0 HP iv) of 200, beware of anything carrying night-shade or psywave (AHAHAHA) as after a single curse, you're toast.

Oh, and if you feel like it, you CAN curse, allowing it to kill you, and you can bring in a set-up fiend if you feel dusknoir's time is over.
 
You guys know who's annoying as hell?

Spiritomb@Lefties/Wide Lens
Impish
252 HP| 100 DEF| 152 SP. DEF
-----------------------------
Wil-o-wisp
Hypnosis
Pain Split/ Snatch/ Confuse Ray
Sucker Punch/ Shadow Sneak

My god, what a bitch. Takes hits very well and cripples. Pain split to Recover from the hit. I actually ran Confuse Ray and Pain Split, although murdered by taunt, he did his job well.

note: You can also run no EVs in HP and beef defenses for full Pain Split benefit. I ran 252 Hp tho, more beneficial, IMO.
 
To answer twilight for a few...

Starmie@leftovers
Rapid Spin
Toxic
Recover
Surf/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt

If you really wanted a "stallmie," you could run the entirely offenceless Deathspinner with Rapid Spim/Recover/Confuse Ray/Thunder Wave. Starmie just isn't sturdy enough to pull Toxic off (I mean, Dusknoir usually uses WoW before Toxic, and Milotic is barely bulky enough even with Rest and Marvel Scale).

Weavile destroys the aforementioned pokes, but cannot exactly counter them in the direct definition. Very few Weaviles would enjoy switching into my Jumpluff, or any Luff, facing powders, Reflect, Subseed, Sunny Day making Luff's speed double, or even Memento...

Yeah, Suicide Curse is amazing for walls (your Bliss is an example), but I'd say Memento is stronger for straight sweepers like Weavile or Heracross. If, for instance, you suicide Curse on Hera/Weavile, you'd still be hard pressed to force them to switch while you bring a setup freak like Charizard or DDmence/dos. Memento, on the other hand, often causes said Bellyzard's substitute to break even if the memento'd poke stays in, allowing for some damage.

I can't argue with the use of Curse, and I know that Ikaeru's a way stronger debater, but that's just my two bits...
 
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