Stealth Rock Less Ladder

[gvmgvm40]

Well, with Life Orb:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 26.39 - 31.21%
252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 31.72 - 37.56%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 232 HP / 24 Def Slowbro: 35.98 - 42.41%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowbro: 36.29 - 42.63%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Slowking: 37.56 - 44.41%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 38.18 - 44.93%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Victini: 37.96 - 45.16%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 38.36 - 45.29%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 42.16 - 49.57%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 44.92 - 52.82%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 45.45 - 53.66%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 45.82 - 53.86%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 45.98 - 54.27%
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 47.2 - 55.32%

Sure, Kyurem-B is priority-weak, but it still hits much harder than Jirachi and has all the coverage it needs. Hell, I'd argue mixed Kyurem-B has better coverage than Jirachi: Dragon/Fire/Electric has perfect coverage, while Jirachi's moveset is resisted by Heatran/Victini/Slowbro/Slowpoke/Starmie.

 

[ginganinja]

Actually the most common SmashPass Jirachi set uses Iron Head / HP Ice / Thunderbolt / Drain Punch, which covers things pretty nicely at +2, and can usually just IH twice for a KO if something resists it.

Jirachi is a safer receiver than Cube, since its got an excellent typing, and good all round bulk, which allow it to receive much easier. Its also not utterly raped by priority from Scizor and Breloom which are very common in the tier.

Cube is a stronger receiver than Jirachi tho, because as pointed out, you can crush through everything. That said, Outrage hurts it a lot in that confusion can be a bitch but aside from this, its also a good receiver.

Point being both have their pros and cons, although neither is technically "better" than the other, and if often comes down to personal preference. If you are building a team with Ninjask, I don't see why you don't just run both (since if you only have the one receiver its very easy to spam super effective attacks against that receiver when Ninjask baton passes), and widen your options. If they have a Scizor or Breloom, then pass to Jirachi, if they have a team of tough walls, then go to Cube. From personal experience in using both on the OU ladder, I tended to rely on using Jirachi more (because situations where it was stronger came up more often) but personal preference works for most players.

 

[youngjake93]

Nope. The difference in power is very significant, especially after a boost.

According to PS's One vs All calc, these mons avoid a 2HKO from a +2 EB Adamant Jirachi with that set:

Hide

+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 20.3 - 24.11%
252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 24.36 - 28.93%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 232 HP / 24 Def Slowbro: 27.76 - 32.64%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowbro: 27.91 - 32.74%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Slowking: 28.93 - 34.26%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 29.35 - 34.54%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Victini: 29.28 - 34.73%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 29.45 - 34.9%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 32.47 - 38.17%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 34.53 - 40.63%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 34.89 - 41.34%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 35.29 - 41.48%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 35.29 - 41.71%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 36.29 - 42.63%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 37.01 - 43.44%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 112+ Def Cresselia: 38.14 - 44.92%
+1 252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 38.42 - 45.29%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 38.86 - 46.03%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 32 Def Starmie: 40.55 - 47.98%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Empoleon: 42.58 - 50.4%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Mew: 43.81 - 51.48%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Mew: 44.8 - 52.97%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 44.88 - 52.98%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Wobbuffet: 45.68 - 54.12%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 28 HP / 232+ Def Wobbuffet: 46.21 - 54.54%
+2 252+ Atk Jirachi Fire Punch vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 46.23 - 54.59%

The number of Pokemon that avoid a 2HKO from the Physically-based mixed Kyurem-B (Dragon Claw/Fusion Bolt/Ice Beam/HP Fire, Draco Plate, 252 Atk/4 SpA Lonely) after the boost is only 1, and that's Defensive Cobalion:

+2 252+ Atk Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Cobalion: 47.15 - 55.69%

Everything else is cleanly 2HKOd.

I do not see at all why you wouldn't just CB Cube at +2.

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Cobalion: 245-288 (63.47 - 74.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 273-321 (77.55 - 91.19%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Spikes(1 layer)

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Skarmory: 287-338 (87.76 - 103.36%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock



I mean... You OHKO all of OU besides physically defensive skarm with rocks+spikes with CB Outrage.. What could be more simple? You wouldn't even need to run any other attacks, but CB Dragon Claw IS as powerful as no item Outrage if there are no steels.

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Cobalion: 245-288 (63.47 - 74.61%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes(3 layers)
That is COBALION ohko'd!


Edit: Sorry for habitually including SR in calcs. It only really matters for sDef Skarm though. You're gonna OHKO errthing

 

[Lady Alex]

Remember that there is no SR.

 

[MikeDawg]

Life orb mixed kyub ohkos every single pokemon in the game, I believe, after being passed a shell smash

So if you are going for straight up power, that is the set you should be using

If the opponent has no priority/sash/etc. you win

 

[Shurtugal]

Shell Smash pass KyuB should ALWAYS carry either Chopple or Babiri Berry, 252 Hp, and HP fire / ice beam / fusion bolt / earth power.

So even priority can't beat it imo if SS reciever. 252 HP KyuB only takes 58% from Mach from Breloom WITHOUT CHOPLE! Kekdeo's SS does 65% from non-EB. So yeah...

It's a really good receiver. Much more so than Jirachi imo.

 

[haunter]

I still think that Jirachi is overall a superior choice, it has a much better defensive typing and isn't forced to run resistance berries, meaning it can use lum berry and make significantly easier for the player to switch it in. Also, jolly Breloom does 56,61% - 66,96% to a 252 HP Cube with a LO mach punch, while adamant does up to 73%, while CB Scizor's BP does 71,37% - 84,58%. So yeah, Cube can live one hit but it has to be almost at full health when it comes in in order to sweep.

 

[ginganinja]

Shell Smash pass KyuB should ALWAYS carry either Chopple or Babiri Berry, 252 Hp, and HP fire / ice beam / fusion bolt / earth power.

So even priority can't beat it imo if SS reciever. 252 HP KyuB only takes 58% from Mach from Breloom WITHOUT CHOPLE! Kekdeo's SS does 65% from non-EB. So yeah...

It's a really good receiver. Much more so than Jirachi imo.

Jesus Christ please don't come out with a sweeping statement that ALL Shell Smash Cubes should run your specific set when there are other sets that work just as well on shell smash teams. Like seriously, I run IB / Fusion Bolt / Outrage / Dragon Claw @ Life Orb with a mixed EV spread and it does the job. You don't NEED to run Chople, heck most of the people I speak to don't, and you don't NEED to run HP Fire.

Personally I think running 252 HP is a waste of time since im using SmashPass, which means that im using Dual Screens, and besides, running 252 HP hurts your stats. For instance, you miss out on evs in either Atk, SpA or Speed, which really sucks. You need speed evs to outspeed Latias, which outspeeds you if you don't invest, you want to buff your SpA as much as possible so you can sweep, and you ideally want to buff that Atk Stat a little more to hit the things you want to with Fusion Bolt (ie special walls).

Agreeing with Haunter.

 

[gvmgvm40]

So how much speed do you run on SmashPass receiver Kyu-B? I'm guessing 148 or 156 with a neutral nature, which let you outspeed Scarf Latios and standard Venusaur under Sun respectively.

 

[Onicon]

So how much speed do you run on SmashPass receiver Kyu-B? I'm guessing 148 or 156 with a neutral nature, which let you outspeed Scarf Latios and standard Venusaur under Sun respectively.

236 EVs neutral usually, because speed-passing is not too reliable. It allows you to outrun every +2 Timid Venusaur when the pass succeeds and every Mamoswine.

Otherwise make sure every pass target has at least 264 speed. At +1, you are faster than any base 130 (Jolteon, Crobat, Aerodactyl), and more importantly, Scarf-Lati@s at +2. For Kyurem it means not having less than 152 speed EVs neutral.

 

[Rodnazics]

Been playing this ladder for a while. I like it a lot better than regular OU. It seems that we're out of the Dragonite phase because everybody is using a Cloyster to beat him (and a few other things while he's at it). Haven't seen hardly any Kyu-B's at all.

 

[Pikachuun]

Been playing this ladder for a while. I like it a lot better than regular OU. It seems that we're out of the Dragonite phase because everybody is using a Cloyster to beat him (and a few other things while he's at it). Haven't seen hardly any Kyu-B's at all.

Kyub is an excellent late game cleaner. I use his mixed set to counter things such as Politoed on my sun team.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

Started some battles on a new alt after about a week, wtf is with all the Charizards? Are people still experimenting or do they not realize that it's still shit? Moltres is better in almost every way imaginable, and no Charizard has done a lick of damage to my team so far.

 

[Pikachuun]

Started some battles on a new alt after about a week, wtf is with all the Charizards? Are people still experimenting or do they not realize that it's still shit? Moltres is better in almost every way imaginable, and no Charizard has done a lick of damage to my team so far.

Only value I can see is Specs sun-boosted STAB solar power, but even then it still sucks.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

Only value I can see is Specs sun-boosted STAB solar power, but even then it still sucks.

The best part about it is they're almost all weatherless teams. One in particular was a Sitrus Berry SD Zard, I mean seriously?