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Move Sticky Web

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dkkc19 said:
Its not situational, Shuckle can set up both safely and them put pressure on the other player. It's similar to the DeoSharp but with webs, which benefits Bisharp any any slower attacker Pokemon in the team like Gyarados. And Rapid Spinners won't enjoy the speed drop at all.
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The only thing that cares about Webs is Hyper Offense, which tends to be either DeoSharp (which will fuck up your entire team with that free boost + hazards) or FlySpam (which DGAF). Stall doesn't care, Bulky Offense doesn't care, Semi-Stall doesn't care; the only thing that kind of cares is balance (who use set-up sweepers anyway)
 
Here's the Shuckle set I've been using to great success:

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Sturdy / Impish
252 HP / 252 SpD / 6 Def
Sticky Web
Stealth Rocks
Encore
Infestation

My friend, who showed me the set, uses a Impish 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD set for pure defensive instead of mixed but it's whatever. The only thing that can stop this guy from setting up hazards is Sleep and he's great at taking the sleep (since you don't want anything else on your team to take it). I've been using it on a HO team and it's worked wonderfully. Depending on what the opponent has, you choose which hazard to set up first (either rocks or webs). If you live past that, you can get some serious shenanigans and is the real reason to use this over Deo-D for some HO teams. With Infestation and Encore, he brings in Set-Up sweepers like a fucking champ. Lock the opponent into EQ or Tbolt, free CM for Landorus-I. They defog you? Bring in Bisharp. Is that Latios trying to kill you with a dragon move? Well, free SDs for Mega Mawile or CMs for Clefable. I could go on but this does it's fucking job. Infestation is great at breaking balloons. Also, Sticky Web pretty much Neuters Scarf pokemon like Garchomp and Excadrill for free (as well all know what a menace they are) allowing great sweeping opportunities for something like Greninja (who now won't have to worry about random scarf pokemon taking him out). It's versatile in what it does and I feel is the 3rd best hazard setter after both Deoxys forms and would be used more if those two weren't so god damn good at their jobs and Shuckle wasn't well...Shuckle. Try it out, it'll fit on pretty much any team with a set-up sweeper who only needs 1 turn to win.
 
I really don't feel like Sturdy is a necessity for shuckle as a sticky web setter. He has titanic bulk and with mental herb the only thing that's going to prevent him from setting up is getting flinched by something like Iron head and 2hko'd. Even super effective attacks like cb waterfall from azumarill dont reliably ohko with 0 defense investment.. It seems so much more sensible to run contrary and have the ability to take a defog if necessary and gain +1 evasion, which can make shuckle an extreme pain and gives you a chance to kill defoggers like mandibuzz with infestation and toxic, or at least force them to switch out immediately when they are freed from infestation. And contrary has the bonus of being able to grab lucky +1 defense or special defense boost from lots of other moves.
 
Keldeo and Greninja leads make sturdy worthwhile, especially since those are threats sticky web needs to stop.
 
Neither of these pokemon can ohko shuckle with anything though? And mental herb prevents greninja taunt, unless I am missing something else.

edit: Modest Keldeo Specs Hydro Pump has a very shaky chance to ohko (56%) and modest can be revenge killed by anything above 95 speed, which takes it out of the speed tier that sticky web was hoping to remove it from anyway
 
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let's put it this way, would you rather guarantee rocks up or not?

yea he's fucking bulky but you gotta remember the hax and other bullshit that he possible might not survive. it's come up a few times. his other abilities suck, if only he got something like insomnia would it be amazing right now

but seriously, why would you use contrary or gluttony on the set anyways? at least sturdy does something, even if it is hard to OHKO
 
If I'm reading Piptochi right, there is a small niche for Contrary, what with all the random hax, it's nice to fire it back at your opponent sometimes, however, if you would like to FULLY dedicate your shuckle to either getting up rocks/webs then Sturdy is an option. As Shurtagal said, it's all in the playstyle. Also, if you decide to go the Contrary route, I think that Thundurus-I might be a decent addition, only because it's a decent anti-lead that would mess up a Keldeo lead.
 
Mood4food77 said:
let's put it this way, would you rather guarantee rocks up or not?

yea he's fucking bulky but you gotta remember the hax and other bullshit that he possible might not survive. it's come up a few times. his other abilities suck, if only he got something like insomnia would it be amazing right now

but seriously, why would you use contrary or gluttony on the set anyways? at least sturdy does something, even if it is hard to OHKO
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Because contrary does the things that I just said, in particular gaining evasion from defog which is annoying to deal with and has synergy with hazard setting. It gives him extra utility instead of just setting up hazards, although obviously if you only care about getting up the hazard then sturdy is very VERY occasionally going to be stronger. Although against certain stuff like certain variations of the defog birds without whirlwind, contrary makes keeping sticky web up far far easier, as constantly giving shuckle evasion will be bad for them, not to mention that most threats would require 2 hits to get rid of shuckle and would need a lucky flinch, which bypasses sturdy anyway.
 
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Oh i use Impish Shuckle, so it OHKOs my set. My bad!

Id mention that Contrary is only useful on a Calm Shuckle then, and whie its oethodox, it does work... although Iron Head bisharp ohkos so Sturdy should still be primary.
 
Actually calm shuckle avoids the ohko from the super effective attacks of several top physical attackers with no def investment including bisharp


252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shuckle: 174-205 (71.3 - 84%)
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shuckle: 204-242 (83.6 - 99.1%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shuckle: 198-237 (81.1 - 97.1%)
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shuckle: 156-186 (63.9 - 76.2%)

the only real fear on the physical side is cb azumarill's waterfall which has a 56% chance to ohko, mega mawile's iron head which has a 75% chance, and life orb crawdaunt who ohkos with crabhammer.
 
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sturdy is nice insurrance against first turn crits too imo. contrary is certainly viable but sturdy certainly safeguards possible OHKOS, and straight up crits, too.
 
Mood4food77 said:
there has never been a moment in which i said "wow, i wish i had shuckle's other ability" while sturdy has come up clutch a few times
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thats cool, but that is hardly a case for disproving the utility of contrary

anyway, this is a strange case because no-one seems to consider crits for the calculations of other defensive pokemon for instance when calculating 2hkos, and I can't imagine many situations where I would choose to have more guarantee on an already successful matchup for me just incase of hax, but I guess if there are exceptions to this rule they would be for hazard setters. Although if your strategy falls apart without sticky web due to luck then maybe that strategy is not particularly solid. There will be situations where you cant stop sticky web from being removed, and your team needs to be able to succeed without it. I guess this is one of the primary weaknesses of most sticky web teams and is one of the main reasons that people tend to stray away from them. I also really doubt that if shuckle had an aroma veil-like ability instead of sturdy, people would put a focus sash on it even though this provides the exact same combination as mental herb + sturdy.

Anyways, sturdy aint bad especially when your team is really overdependent on sticky web but personally I see more use in contrary for the reasons I stated. As far as sticky web setting goes I'd actually see contrary as a more successful ability as it gives winning matchups against certain defogging builds, but obviously sturdy can be clutch later in the match if you need to encore a sweeper who is getting out of control.
 
the point is to not make the team reliant on sticky web, but to benefit from it

http://pastebin.com/9YULfkKW

that's the team i'm using him with and something that deo-d probably wouldn't fit as well with on the team. With Bisharp, you can force the opponent to not defog your hazards away leaving only rapid spin but doing so against shuckle gives something else a free set-up turn, especially when i have a team filled with them.
 
Not necessarily, but from what I've seen, if Mega Heracross ever gets over its 4mss, then it will possibly be greater than Mega Garchomp. I can't do calc's right now, but that it requires more setup for MegaChomp to sweep than MegaCross.
 
totoTavros said:
Not necessarily, but from what I've seen, if Mega Heracross ever gets over its 4mss, then it will possibly be greater than Mega Garchomp. I can't do calc's right now, but that it requires more setup for MegaChomp to sweep than MegaCross.
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I've used MegaChomp a lot with Sticky Web to great success. MegaChomp only needs three attacking moves(Dragon Claw, EQ, and Stone Edge) for coverage on everything(as far as I've seen). And since he only needs three attacks he can afford to run SD.
 
totoTavros said:
Not necessarily, but from what I've seen, if Mega Heracross ever gets over its 4mss, then it will possibly be greater than Mega Garchomp. I can't do calc's right now, but that it requires more setup for MegaChomp to sweep than MegaCross.
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Meg Garchmop is an amazing mixed attacker with 120 Special attack and has better typing, so its deadlier than Mega Heracross imo.
 
Mixed Megachomp still 2HKOes everything in the sand. The Base Power of his coverage doesn't drop under 100.

Draco Meteor / Earthquake / Fire Blast / Stone Edge gets perfect neutral coverage and rapes face under web and sand.

Think: Sand rush Excadrill, but with more power. That's what you get with Megachomp under Web and Sand.
 
They seem like different beasts. SR Exca is very difficult to venge kill w/o Priority, whereas Megachomp could probably be venge'd w/ LO Latios' Draco
 
They are. Exca is a sweeper while while Megachomp is an insane wallbreaker who can sweep if levitators and birds are removed and Web is up. The two actually work quite well together, with Chomp breaking he walls that Exca doesn't like facing (Skarm is OHKOed by Fire Blast, Mandi is 2HKOed by Stone Edge and OHKOed after previous damage)

The team I use is Lead Galvantula / Bisharp / Hippo / Megachomp / Exca / Talonflame

Yeah, there are some definite flaws in the team (mainly a gaping ice, fire, and ground weakness), but it has served me well. Chomp and Exca go hand in hand in sand, covering each other's weaknesses quite well. Web isn't 100% necessary, but it helps Chomp do his job.

And I just realized that I'm probably goin off topic. Tl;dr Fear Megachomp under Web and Sand.
 
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