Strategy Analysis: Drizzle Teams

Basically my first guide, probably forgot a lot of stuff so just tell me and I'll fix...

This is an analasis on Drizzle Teams, I might do a TSS one later if I feel like it.

The Sunny Day Guide was already done and can be found here:
http://www.smogon.com/community/showthread.php?t=5858

NOTE: When I am writing this analasis, I will be writing it as if you are going to be playing against other 1/2 Uber Teams.

What is the main idea of a Drizzle team?
If you've ever played with a Drought team or a team centered around one pokemon, then this idea should be failry obvious to you. A Drizzle team does basically what a Drought Team does, but with Drizzle replacing the drought. For those of you who haven't used either before, let me explain it here and now: Drizzle is the special ability only found on one pokemon: Kyogre. It summons an infinite rainstorm that will last until another weather condition is used as soon as Kyogre switches in. This ability is great for the pokemon with abilities (Swift Swim/Rain Dish) that benefit from the rain, as you don't have to waste setup with them. With the weather in your favour, you usually have an advantage over most other teams (save Drought teams).
Effects of Drizzle in more detail, and why they are helpful:

Basically a quick overview of the effects of rain, I'll probably miss something here.

**Drizzle has the same effects as rain does, except that it lasts forever, until another weather condition overwrites it.
The effects of rain are:
***Water Type Moves get a 1.5 (50%) boost.
***Fire Type Moves are weakened and only do half damage
***Thunder's accuracy is now perfect. PERFECT. It will hit through Double Team/Brightpowder and all.
***Solarbeam power is cut in half (60 base power)
***Morning Sun, Moonlight and Synthesis only heal 25% of the users maximum HP.

Rain also activates two pokemon abilities:

***Swift Swim: Pokemon with this trait now double their original speed. With Drizzle out this is a good way to hit hard with strong fast attackers.
***Rain Dish: Not as useful as Swift Swim, in Rain they recover 1/16th of their maximum HP at the end of every turn.

Fully Evolved Pokemon who get Swift Swim include:
**Seaking
**Omastar
**Kabutops
**Qwilfish
**Mantine
**Kingdra
**Ludicolo
**Huntail
**Gorebyss
**Relicanth
**Luvdisc (lol)

Fully Evolved Pokemon who get Rain Dish:
**Ludicolo

Swift Swim has more of a variety and the only Rain Disher has Swift Swim too so we'll just scratch Rain Dish.

Utilizing the effects:
Obviously you are going to want Kyogre, he's the keystone of any Drizzle team, being the only pokemon to have the trait without a hacking device. But does this mean the rest of your 5 pokemon have to be Swift Swimmers? No.

Why?
As powerful as the trait Drizzle is it has it's counters. The arch rival of Drizzle, Drought will shut down your team completely if that's all it consists off. Enemy pokemon can utilize your Drizzle and start Thundering your team to bits. If the first pokemon you face is an electric who starts Thundering your lead, who are you going to switch to and wall it?
Short answer: There are somethings that these pokemon cannot do, lacking much of a special wall (Ludicolo isn't the best spwall for Electrics) and basic stuff like normal resistance (Kabutops/Omastar/Relicanth resist it but they aren't the best from my personal experience) And lets not overlook the other ubers, an enemy Kyogre is going to be tough to take out, Groudon will rape it in and out and stuff like Deoxys-F is going to hit hard right off the bat.

Ok, so what DO you want on a team like this:

Basically anything that can cover the weakness' of your Swift Swimmers can work on these types of teams fine. Stuff that generates normal resistance, walls against other foes like Heracross/Salamence and most importatly, something that can stop the other ubers from destroying your team.

While not having as much of a variety as Drought teams, Drizzle teams still have quite a few decent pokemon that can be utilized on your team right. I won't be giving in depth explanations on how to use each pokemon, that's what we have the dex for :)

The following is what I'd consider a "staple" on a Drizzle team:

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Spd / 100 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Substitute / Ice Beam
- Surf / Water Spout
- Thunder

The main dude on this team, Kyogre seriously is a mean sweeper. Can sweep teams right off the bat, though you should be cautious when using it. Surf is generally the better choice I find, when battling other teams with 1/2 Ubers they're Blissey is usally going to be packing a fair bit of Special Defense, therefore it's highly unlikely that Water Spout will 2HKO it. Substitute I find is a much better choice for any metagame, Latias is the only thing that gets hit harder by Ice Beam, and I haven't seen much of it, though it is a pretty man threat to teams like this. Most other standard dragons like Salamence get hit hard by Thunder anyway.


Be very careful when using Kyogre, you usually want to keep him alive. When playing against other teams Drought teams are your biggest worry, and if Kyogre goes down before Groudon does, I'm afraid you're in trouble. Big trouble. Usually when using this I switch out the first turn, and bring it in later when I can hopefully setup a sweep. Be careful, and keep Kyogre alive.

If you're not using Substitute, my suggestion would be to go with absolute max speed, or at least 300. This way, you beat most of the 299 threats and can give them a swift ice beam or such. Very useful. Otherwise, 156 Spd beats Adamant Groudon anyday (thanks Obi!)


Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 128 HP / 96 Spd / 64 SAtk / 220 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Basically one of the best Swift Swimmers you can have. Unfortunately no Swift Swimmer gets Thunder, so you're stuck with your generic Leech Seeding Mexican. This is pretty much self-explanatory, the EV's are set to 200 Speed so after the Drizzle you are faster than most stuff. With the large amounts of HP/SpDef and Leech Seed, this can act as a decent special wall. Surf is a STAB attack that hurts, Ice Beam is for those dragons like Salamence. It also smacks Groudon hard on the switch if it feels like switching in. Toxic is of course, the filler here, if you can't predict for nothing and don't know what's going to switch in, just toxic it. More likely then not you'll poison something worthwhile poisoning (if it's Heracross or blissey you might have just wasted a turn there, but you'll have to live with it. Giga Drain and HP Grass are good alternatives to a move on this set, as it can hurt enemy Kyogre, which teams like this might have a little bit of a problem with.

Subseed is also a viable option, though I don't like it on something like this, it works, so I'm listing it.

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 152 HP / 136 Atk / 44 Spd / 176 SAtk
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Hydro Pump

Not really that sure of the EV's on this one. It's not a Swift Swimmer, but right up there for one of the best allies of a Drizzle Team. Gyarados does what Blaziken does on Drought Teams, sweeps. Hydro Pump in the rain is enough to give a nice middle finger up the ass to any Skarmory/Weezing/Zapdos that would like to switch in. This thing killed a lot of things that didn't expect a thing for me, I love it. This is more of a lategame thing.


Salamence (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hydro Pump

To be honest I haven't really tried this one out, but a few people I know have and apparently it's really good for a surprise. Instead of DDing up with Gyarados, why not just switch this bad boy in and hit hard right off the bat? Hydro Pump is no Fire Blast but it will do a good chunk to Weezing/Skarmory and whatever else you find in this metagame.

Besides from the sweeping department, combining this with a physical wall of choice (I've had the most success with Weezing, though Skarmory works fine) will and Metagross will give you a nice wall against Heracross if you can predict right, which is always a plus, since Hera is still a threat, being able to come on Blissey and possibly a few other pokemon.


Weezing (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP / 60 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

It's our old standard Weezing from the standard metagame ready to play in a whole new metagame. Basically when that physical attacker switches in on you you're going to want to switch in something that won't take a whole lot of damage. Weezing is still a decent wall for this metagame, being able to semi-wall Heracross (not doing much back to it though). Eats fighting attacks fine, and is a nice backup switch in if you don't feel like risking Salamence/Gyarados with it.


Besides that, what can Weezing do? Well it's a decent counter to those faggy Swords Dance/HP Bug/Rock Slide/EQ Groudons, though I usually see the Flamethrower variety more in this metagame. Plus, Weezing makes a nice sacrifice if you need to let something take Sleep Powder or anything similar


Just switch him into anything you're unsure of, Weezing is the pokemon you'll least need on a team like this imo.


Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 204 HP / 172 Def / 132 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy/Thunder
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled
- Thunder Wave/Thunder/Sing

You may or may not have noticed right now that a good chunk of the above pokemon are going to raped by Boltbeam ( save Ludicolo who still can't take as many as you might think, stuff like Zapdos hit Ludicolo pretty hard), so we're going to add something in to help with that. Snorlax isn't going to help much in a metagame with so many fast attacking ubers present, so this is our next best bet. The EV's and nature give it 372 SpDef, more than enough for taking the former hits.


Blissey is still a great support pokemon, being able to paralyze enemy stuff that you might have trouble with (save Groudon who resists and Heracross who you don't want PAR'd), Aromatherapy being a godsend if one of your vital pokemon gets disabled by an Exeggutor or such. And to top it up, she can switch in and stop a great deal of enemy non-sub kyogres.


I saw Black Leather Jacket using Thunder on his Blissey to PAR Kyogre on the switch and possibly break it's Sub with a few Specialk Attack EV's, I mentioned that here just for the heck of it. Sing is another cool option for snoozing enemy Groudons and such on the switch, though the accuracy is a bit disappointing.


Metagross @ Choice Band
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Shadow Ball / Pursuit

Good ol' Metagross, I'm not going to into too much depth with this one. Metagross isn't exactly the best choice of a Drizzle team (fire attacks get weakened, woohoo!) The main reason I am putting this here is because there are quite a lot of psychics, I've seen some Lugia/Deoxys/Mewtwo entering these teams, and Metagross is a decent defense against quite a few of them. Pursuit is for Deoxys-F in particular, but Shadow Ball is always better for me.


The main reason I used this was to soak up a few hits from stuff like Latias, who owns the rest of your team without thinking twice.


Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 SAtk / 76 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ice]

update: Now that XD moves have been implemented, feel free to mess around with Metal Sound and Sub/BP.

Zapdos indeed. Thunder hurts a lot more than Thunderbolt does and with STAB it can hurt quite a lot of teams that aren't packing Blissey. The bad thing is that most teams are packing Blisseey Still that's no reason not use this bad boy, being faster than Groudon can help at times.


Rest/Talk makes it a decent switch into Eggy's Sleep Powder, still Light Screen Zapdos works just as well and provides some nice support for your team. Other moves that have worked include Drill Peck/Roar/Protect/Toxic and some others, but they're just other options at most, the above set is basically what you want.


If you're looking for something else there is always CB Zapdos, if you can catch their special wall off guard with it you might open up a gap in their team for a sweep



Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature ( + SAtk, - Atk)
-Ice Beam / Recover / Rapid Spin
-Recover / Thunder Wave / Rapid Spin
-Surf
-Thunder

Starmie, with that large speed and special attack, stab Surf and Thunder he's always a good choice for teams like this. Recover is basically a must, to keep him alive for as long as he can stay alive. Rapid Spin is nice if you want to clear some Spikes away, though how many pokemon can Skarmory Spike on on a team full of waters/electrics? Metagross maybe. Thunder Wave is nice support for Subbing Kyogre and slowing down Chlorphyllers and such, and Ice Beam does a number on Eggy / Groudon / Latias on the switch.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SAtk
Bold Nature ( + Def, - Atk)
-Calm Mind
-Ice Beam / Roar
-Rest
-Surf

Suicune, with the large defensive stats and Calm Mind he's always a nice choice for a team. You could place a little more in SAtk or SDef if you must. Surf gets boosted and now with the right amount of SAtk will 2HKO Blissey after 6 Calm Minds in the Rain. Ice Beam is for stuff like Groudon switch ins if you can predict it, Roar if you are using Omastar Spikes can be annoying as shit. I've used him on my Rain Dance team from the very beginning, he's one tough bitch to take out. Nice wall for enemy Salamence/Metagross.

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 156 HP / 136 Def / 216 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Shadow Ball
- Rest / Selfdestruct

Fat special wall from standard entering here. The disadvantage of Blissey is that while it walls special attackers much better than Snorlax, it can't really do anything to a Sub/Taunt/Safeguard anything.

Enter this dude, with even no attack EVs he scares of a lot of things. Body Slam hurts stuff like kyogre, and shadow ball owns the psychic ubers. The last slot all depends on you. Rest is cool keeping it alive against various special attackers (seriously, stuff like Eggy Solarbeam and Kyogre Water Spout hurt after a while), but Selfdestruct is cool to go out with a band. There is nothing better than Selfdestructing in something like Groudon's face.

The following contains pokemon that aren't seen as much on Drizzle teams but can work just as damn well if you use them right.

Sceptile (M) @ Leftovers / Petaya Berry
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Leaf Blade
- Leech Seed / Endeavor
- Substitute

I've used Sceptile with great success in the uber metagame, why not use it here too? Subseeding is just really an annoying strategy in general that is hard to get around. The good thing about Sceptile is that it doesn't need to rely on the weather for it's speed or power. HP Ice is for things like Salamence, you won't be needing HP Fire much, since your Drizzle weakens it anyway.


On the other hand you could go the more offensive route and use Endeavor. Petaya + Leaf Blade + Overgrow hurts shit and you can Endeavor whatever you can't kill. If you are using Ludicolo then two Seeders is a bit redundant. Petaya + Leaf Blade will OHKO Groudon for sure, CH or not and will seriously dent Kyogre. Great, Great pokemon.

Kingdra (M) @ Liechi Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Spd / 200 SAtk
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Dragon Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Flail
- Substitute

Qwilfish (M) @ Liechi Berry
Trait: Poison Point
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Destiny Bond
- Flail
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

Kabutops (M) @ Liechi Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Rock Slide
- Flail

Substitute/Flail, all Swiftswimmers, this is a good way to get a nice 6-0 sweep if you are feeling confident about it. The twist is that Kingdra can own the shit out Weezing/Skarmory, Qwilfish can kill something with Destiny Bond once it's done and Kabutops is immune to Tyranitar. All have Swift Swim, therefore not needing the boost of Salac Berry. Endure is an option but Sub works better for me.

I've used these since I started using Rain Dance teams and they are sexy

Endure works as another option, though I always prefer Sub

Omastar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+ SAtk, - Atk)
-Ice Beam
-Spikes
-Surf
-Toxic

First used by skarm, I think, I won't go into much depth explaining how this dude works. Lets start with our basics, Surf gets STAB and Ice Beam is always helful, smacking Groudon and Rayquaza hard on the switch. Spikes is always helpful if Blissey decides to come in, after a while it's going to get bored, just poison it. Basically the same idea behind Ludicolo, except with Spikes over Seed. Then again Spikes and seed make a nice combo :/


Flygon (M) @ Leftovers ** Mixed
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 220 Atk / 176 Spd / 112 SAtk
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Hidden Power [Bug] / Quick Attack
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Solar Beam

Thanks to Obi2Kenobi for this. C/Ped right from the post he made from the old thread. This is a decent Groudon counter, if anything, STAB Earthquake still hurts, and SolarBeam does enough damage to Groudon for a 2HKO. Of course there are variations, the full on special set, the Screeching one, the CB one, all of which you are welcome to try.

For a better explanation, it can switch into Fire Blast from Groudon without taking much damage and resists QuakeSlide. Combining this with Weezing covers most Groudon (lol Hidden Power Ice) as Weezing resists HP Bug. Hidden Power Bug is what you'd want for hitting other Eggy and such hard on the switch. What you could do is use a + Speed nature to get to 309 speed to beat Groudon, but it's up to you.

The downside is that the Rain makes you charge up for Solar Beam, so make sure you're fighting Groudon in the sun ( lol )

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Spd / 212 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Calm Mind
- Leech Seed / Recover / Psychic
- Substitute

Very annoying to get through, Calm Mind and Baton Passing to Kyogre or another pokemon can pretty much guarantee you the game, you can pass a Sub to teammates, the 3rd move is a tossup. Leech Seed and Substitute is annoying as hell, Psychic to deal some damage or Recover so you can win some CMwars possibly. Thanks to The Over Used for showing me how deadly this can be :O

Lanturn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Volt Absorb

EVs: 40 HP / 160 Spd / 200 SAtk / 109 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam / Surf
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
- filler

Lanturn, suggested by Gomez. I don't see a lot of it but it can work, taking electric hits for the team well. A decent option for a Kyogre counter, resisting Surf /IB and having Volt Absorb. The filler can be another one of Confuse Ray / Hidden Power/ another attack / Amnesia. I've seen one guy try Endure Salac with max speed even (lol)

With the above spread, Zapdos 3HKO's with HP Grass, if you really need to switch into it. You also 2HKO most standard Zapdos, so 99% of the time you win. Awesome poke.

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature ( + Def, - Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Surf
- Substitute
- Wish

Vaporeon can BP Subs to your team mates, and keep them alive with Wish. Not much explaining to be done here, more SAtk EV's if you want to hit harder and you can put Ice Beam in there again for hitting enemy Groudon / Latias harder.


Milotic (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def /44 SAtk
Bold Nature ( + Def, - Atk)
- Hypnosis
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Surf / Hydro Pump

Milotic makes a nice wall to Metagross, even in Sunlight the most it can do is blow up. Hypnosis is always nice for putting an uber out of commission temporarily, Surf and IB are obvious, Milotic has more special attack then you might think, a bit more in Special Attack wouldn't hurt here. A similar concept can be done with Lapras if you so desire.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 120 Atk / 148 Def
Brave Nature ( + Atk, - Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Rest

STAB Earthquake hurts, so does Torrented STAB RD Hydro Pump. The main way I've used Swampert in Drizzle teams is by switching him into a Meteor Mash or something and then attacking. Not much resists this guy, he's awesome.

Counter can go somewhere if you feel the need to shit on something like Groudon.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Spd / 120 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Psychic
- Wish

Jirachi, gogo 60% par rate. I don't see it being used much, but it can never hurt. 60% PAR rate fucking owns, protection from fire attacks, and a handy normal resistance. Can be a good Wishpasser to stuff, provide nice PAR support.

Also, there is the comedy Water Pulse, which gets a nice confuse rate and gets boosted by the rain.

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Rest
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

To be honest, I don't see much Skarmory at all, however it can't hurt. Can actually take a fire attack now, though not too many, so don't be too reckless. Spikes is an awesome move in general, rapidn the shit out of many teams like this (seriously, who uses Rapid Spin?).

Makes a nice counter for stuff like Swords Dance / HP Bug / RS / EQ Groudon, though it can't do anything except Roar it out. Also a nice Metagross switch-in, though beware of the ones carrying Hidden power [fire].

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 204 Spd / 252 SAtk / 52 SDef
Modest Nature ( + SAtk, - Atk)
-Calm Mind
-Dragon Claw
-Recover
-Safeguard

If you don't mind using another uber this is one of your bests to counter non hp bug Groudon, and many other foes you can find on other Drizzle / Drought teams. Beats Blissey too, Metagross is one of the only things stopping this from sweeping.


Ok, there are probably a few things I've forgotten in this section that can aid Drizzle teams, open to suggestions



General tips:
Make sure to ALWAYS keep Kyogre alive, or at least until their weather changer is dead, but KEEP it ALIVE anyway. There's always some good coming your way if you have a powerful uber sweeper and your opponents one is dead

Use at least one Swift Swimmer per team. Yes, they're pretty important to teams like this.

Remember that you're going to be fighting against other ubers. Try packing some counters to them too.


And now the final section to this analysis: counters


NON-uber pokemon that can pose a threat

Ludicolo/Enemy Swift Swimmer - If they use the rain against you, you better have something that can switch into them well and wall them.

Salamence - Enemy CB Salamence can be a real pain to this team, Weezing and Metagross can take it sometimes but you really have to be careful when your physical wall takes 40% per HP Bird.

Metagross - Pain in the ass. CB Metagross hurts everything on this team hard, Kyogre takes a nice 50%~~ per Metoer Mash anmd don't even mention Weezing. Plus if on a team with Groudon there is the chance it's going to be packing Psychic/ HP Fire so Skarmory/Weezing becomes even less a threat. CB Gross is the biggest worry here though, even with a team of waters and such you could be in a bit of trouble.

Heracross - When you have Weezing/Mence/Gyarados it isn't very threatening, but one predicted attack and you might think otherwise. (I'm talking CB Hera here)

Reversallers/Flailers - I've mentioned that they can rip through the opponent's teams, what about yours. The best you can do here is set one of your Swift Swimmers to beat it in the rain, or simply stop them from Swords Dancing up. Really if you're the one face to face with a SD Heracross using Reversal you'd want to have a counter for it. Weezing is ok..Metagross can take Flailers decently (most of them). Kingdra is a really annoying threat here too, being able to hit both of them with Hydro Pump...uh..watch out

Eggy/Chlorophyllers - If they get their sunlight out, via Groudon or not you could be in trouble. Most pack Sleep Powder which can disable Kyogre on the switch, your best bet here is prediction. Though if they aren't running HP Fire Metagross makes a good switch in once they've slept something.

Shedinja - If you are using a lot of Spikes / Seed / Pursuit Metagross then you'll be ok, otherwise he can come in on Kyogre, and many other waters and give you the nice middle finger, always have 2 or 3 pokemon that can hurt this guy.


Enemy UBERS that pose a threat
Well technically all of them do but here are the ones I see the most...


Kyogre - Ah of course, your old enemy Kyogre, shuts down your Blissey with Sub and proceeds to Calm Mind up, Celebi might be a decent bet here if it has Recover, but really this is realy hard to stop.

Groudon - Biggest problem to this team, shuts down your Rain and owns quite a chunk of this team, Flygon and Weezing should cover most Groudons, or you can simply bring in Sceptile after it KO's something and Leaf Blade it. If you can Ice Beam it on the switch that's always a good start, Groudon can come on Blissey pretty easily, via Thunder Wave, even Seismic Toss doesn't do a whole lot.

Rayquaza - I see quite a few of these, even more of a problem to beat. Shuts down all the weather and simply starts hitting you with a CBed HP Bird. Weezing takes a load from it, you're going to have to work with resistances here.

Latias - Yes I am going to mention it. If they have something to take Metagross hits on their team then you're pretty much fucked, since Drizzle teams don't have any of the fancy Sleep Powder/Explosions that Drought teams do. This is the Safeguard/CM/Recover/Dragon Claw Latias I am talking about, though the other sweeping ones can still pose a large threat, though you have Blissey for them.

Closing:
If anyone actually reads this and even understands it, feel free to add shit or point out any errors
 

noobster

space cowboy
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 2nd Official Smogon Tournament
I would personally always have a Lanturn on a Drizzle team to counter those electric bad boys. Then, it also gets the water boost which is very nice.
 
Vaporeon could be added. It's surfs are more powerful and can pass wishes/subs to keep your pokemon (ie. kyogre) alive.
 
Milotic, Starmie and Lapras should be added in my opinion. Milotic because it:
1) takes out your Metagross worries, even if the sun is shining all it can do is blow up
2) takes on Salamence which is always a threat...if you have Ludicolo or Starmie as your only Waters, Salamence will fuck you up
3) sleeps something...possibly an uber!
4) has boosted STABed Surf from quite a gorgeous Special Attack. I mean, despite the defensiveness, ever realized it actually has Starmie's Special Attack?

Starmie has:
1) Thunder
2) boosted Surfs/Hydro Pumps from the same 100 SpA
3) Recover as well
4) Rapid Spin function...though I doubt Skarmory is much of a threat to a team with mainly Water and Electricity, but it might help your Salamence/Gyarados
5) Thunder Wave to help your Kyogre subbing or something

Lapras has Thunder as well, it can Sing, STAB Surf of course, and Dragon Dance for a surprise though I am not a big fan of Dragon Dance sets on Lapras.
 
I always thought Rain just gave Solarbeam a two-turn setup. Is that in addition to halving the base power or something?

I used Swords Dance/Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball/HP Fighting Qwilfish just to see what it could do. Well, apparently, it 6-0's.
 

Loki

like seashells
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 7 Championwon the 3rd Official Smogon Tournament
swampert takes a lot of damage from boosted surfs and is easily stopped by ludicolo/gyarados.

and one little typo:
***Swift Swim: Pokemon with this trait now half double their original speed. With Drizzle out this is a good way to hit hard with strong fast attackers.
 
"Shedinja" is something you might want to list under threats, although as long as you've got Leech Seed Ludicolo or something that's not a problem.

I think Lati@s makes a better Groudon counter than Flygon, so you might want to list that. The main reason that Groudon is such a threat is that you can't switch Kyogre into it, because Groudon will screw Kyogre, regardless of weather, wheras Groudon can switch into a Kyogre Thunder and pretty much force Kyogre to switch out.

Also, Rain Dance teams are pretty cool in standard format given that Tyranitar, while he does change the weather, can't really switch in freely on a team where everything carries Surf.

Swampert gets Electric immunity and STAB+Rain+Torrent Hydro Pump can be fun. Quagsire could actually see use here, for taking enemy Surf that might be problematic for Swampert, although despite how it might look nice on paper it probably wouldn't perform as well on the field.

Suicune is Suicune. Boost on the Surf never hurts when you're running around Calm Minding and Roaring like a pansy, and with Spikes support from Omastar it might be able to do it more effectively. It's notable more for being a water type than a team player on a drizzle party. Same goes for Milotic too, to a lesser extent. Oh, yeah, wait--Milotic can Mud Sport.
 
Vaporeon could be added. It's surfs are more powerful and can pass wishes/subs to keep your pokemon (ie. kyogre) alive.
I've never tried Vaporeon but I'll add it.

Milotic, Starmie and Lapras should be added in my opinion. Milotic because it:
1) takes out your Metagross worries, even if the sun is shining all it can do is blow up
2) takes on Salamence which is always a threat...if you have Ludicolo or Starmie as your only Waters, Salamence will fuck you up
3) sleeps something...possibly an uber!
4) has boosted STABed Surf from quite a gorgeous Special Attack. I mean, despite the defensiveness, ever realized it actually has Starmie's Special Attack?

Starmie has:
1) Thunder
2) boosted Surfs/Hydro Pumps from the same 100 SpA
3) Recover as well
4) Rapid Spin function...though I doubt Skarmory is much of a threat to a team with mainly Water and Electricity, but it might help your Salamence/Gyarados
5) Thunder Wave to help your Kyogre subbing or something

Lapras has Thunder as well, it can Sing, STAB Surf of course, and Dragon Dance for a surprise though I am not a big fan of Dragon Dance sets on Lapras
I was going to put Starmie in originally but I guess it slipped my mind, I'll put them all in though.

I always thought Rain just gave Solarbeam a two-turn setup. Is that in addition to halving the base power or something?
It halves the power and takes the two turn setup, in other words Solar Beam sucks :)


and one little typo:
***Swift Swim: Pokemon with this trait now half double their original speed. With Drizzle out this is a good way to hit hard with strong fast attackers.
fixed.

"
Shedinja is something you might want to list under threats, although as long as you've got Leech Seed Ludicolo or something that's not a problem.
I could list Shedinja but I haven't seen many people using it, though I can see how it could really fuck up Kyogre and friends, I'll add it in.

I think Lati@s makes a better Groudon counter than Flygon, so you might want to list that. The main reason that Groudon is such a threat is that you can't switch Kyogre into it, because Groudon will screw Kyogre, regardless of weather, wheras Groudon can switch into a Kyogre Thunder and pretty much force Kyogre to switch out.
I might do a section on "other uber allies" later.

Swampert gets Electric immunity and STAB+Rain+Torrent Hydro Pump can be fun. Quagsire could actually see use here, for taking enemy Surf that might be problematic for Swampert, although despite how it might look nice on paper it probably wouldn't perform as well on the field.
I'll mention Swampert, though I do believe that Ludicolo can take Surfs almost as well as Quagsire can, and Quagsire's only real advantage over Swampert is Water Absorb, I don't think it's too useful in a metagame.

Suicune is Suicune. Boost on the Surf never hurts when you're running around Calm Minding and Roaring like a pansy, and with Spikes support from Omastar it might be able to do it more effectively. It's notable more for being a water type than a team player on a drizzle party. Same goes for Milotic too, to a lesser extent. Oh, yeah, wait--Milotic can Mud Sport.
I've actualy used Suicune on my Drizzle team effectively, in fact I've had him on it since I've started using it, another thing that slipped my mind, thanks for reminding.


All appreciated, thank you.
 
Since I was in the process of making one myself, I’ll just add in what I have to say.

After a little experimenting, I’ve found that 300 speed is quite the better choice for Kyogre/Groudon – both can destroy pokemon that hang around 299 with Ice Beam/Rock Slide quickly, including Zapdos, the big Drizzle threat.

Ludicolo – You’re forgetting Substitute, which is generally quite obvious for such a fast Seeder. That, and that I disagree with your EV spread. Ludicolo’s HP is quite lower than its SpDef, ergo more in HP would be beneficial, somewhere around 352 is my preference. Also, since you will probably be switching into Metagross a lot, I find that giving him enough SpAtk to 2HKO is the way to go, as some Metagross might think they could outrace you to the KO with Rock Slide (CB versions) or just Meteor Mash if you’re low on health. I usually contend with 270 (Modest), as that should 2HKO the majority of Metagross guaranteed, plus it spares enough for HP so that CBgross won’t 2HKO unless it uses Sludge Bomb or Shadow Ball, and afaik Rock Slide is what many people use.

Snorlax isn't going to help much in a metagame with so many fast attacking ubers present
Sorry, but I couldn’t disagree more. If we’re talking about ubers, every one that’s used in a 1/2 uber team is most likely prepared for the inevitable Blissey, and will shut Blissey down automatically with 101 HP subs. The advantage of Snorlax in these cases is that it can break the subs of most ubers in question with a STAB Return for Kyogre/Ho-oh, and Shadow Ball for Mewtwo and Psychic friends.

If you use Blissey to counter ubers, you’re basically allowing them to setup on you while you struggle in vain to break their subs. You’re also detracting from defense, which is ever so important on Blissey to avoid being murdered, more so when the majority of your opponents will be standard fare. Even a small reduction makes an enormous difference when you’re talking about such low stats.

Just think about your last uber battle – when was the last time you actually stopped a CMer with a Blissey? Every uber CMer can pretty much stop Blissey rather than the other way around, plus Snorlax has quite more worth with Curse in a metagame where your usual opponents are standard metagame fare.

The Snorlax set would obviously be Curse/Return/Shadow Ball/filler. I hear it gets Selfdestruct now, so if you find yourself switching in late, into a CMer, break it’s sub while it CMs and goes for the 2HKO – except you explode the very first time it hits you :]
Otherwise, use Rest. I’d also recommend a very, very defensive set, with almost no EVs in attack (even then it’ll still do more than SToss Blissey :/) – around 500 HP and 341 SpDef, Careful. Rest go in Def imo.

With this spread, max SA Latios 3HKOs even after 1 CM, unless it lucks out and maxes damage on you. Also, Kyogre won’t 2HKO without CM (400 Spatk btw), and if it does, quite frankly I wouldn’t be using Snorlax to switch into Kyogre anyway if I had Lanturn handy.

For Lanturn, I’d use a spread like this –
EVs: 40 HP / 160 Spd / 200 SAtk / 109 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

With these EVs, Zapdos 3HKOs with HP Grass (don’t switch Lanturn into one obviously), while you can 2HKO 338 HP/no SpDef Zapdos with Ice Beam. Also OHKOs DDMence and Gyarados as well, as long as you aren’t switching into Dragon Dance/Earthquake. That, and it takes other Swift Swimmers very well. The speed EVs can be ignored, I just like the idea of getting in the Thunder on Suicune first or paralyzing shit like… actually come to think of it the first-round-Suicune-hit is the only plausible reason for those EVs. I think I entertained ideas of paralyzing Tyranitar/Metagross at the time, but those don’t sound very good now I think about it.

Jirachi should be mentioned, it resists Normal, has 60%(!) para rate now, and is overall very cool since lots of stuff can sponge Earthquakes on a Drizzle team.

And finally, Counter is decent (but not stellar) on Swampert imo, being one of the few Waters able to take SD Groudon Earthquake and counter it right back in his face.

If you're looking for something else there is always CB Zapdos,
what the fuck did I miss this last month. If this isn’t a typo, somebody explain it to me please.
 
hi khor

After a little experimenting, I’ve found that 300 speed is quite the better choice for Kyogre/Groudon – both can destroy pokemon that hang around 299 with Ice Beam/Rock Slide quickly, including Zapdos, the big Drizzle threat.
If you're not using Sub I always find myself using 300 speed, however with it I find myself using less and less special attack, and doing less and less to some walls, however I will add the advantages of using 300 in.

Ludicolo – You’re forgetting Substitute, which is generally quite obvious for such a fast Seeder.
I prefer stuff like Sceptile for Subseeding, however since it is a viable option I will add it.

That, and that I disagree with your EV spread. Ludicolo’s HP is quite lower than its SpDef, ergo more in HP would be beneficial, somewhere around 352 is my preference.
I did learn this a week or so back, however adding it to this guide must have slipped out of my mind, since I was so caught up on what to write next :o

Also, since you will probably be switching into Metagross a lot, I find that giving him enough SpAtk to 2HKO is the way to go, as some Metagross might think they could outrace you to the KO with Rock Slide (CB versions) or just Meteor Mash if you’re low on health. I usually contend with 270 (Modest), as that should 2HKO the majority of Metagross guaranteed, plus it spares enough for HP so that CBgross won’t 2HKO unless it uses Sludge Bomb or Shadow Ball, and afaik Rock Slide is what many people use.
A decent number of people I fought with my Drizzle Team a while back used Shadow Ball, however that was a reasonably long time ago and I am unaware if anything much has changed.

Sorry, but I couldn’t disagree more. If we’re talking about ubers, every one that’s used in a 1/2 uber team is most likely prepared for the inevitable Blissey, and will shut Blissey down automatically with 101 HP subs. The advantage of Snorlax in these cases is that it can break the subs of most ubers in question with a STAB Return for Kyogre/Ho-oh, and Shadow Ball for Mewtwo and Psychic friends.
Reason being I haven't seen anyone actually using Snorlax to counter these, and I have heard from som very UNRELIABLE sources that it doesn't do as well as Blissey, I was uncertain as to whether to add it or not. I will keep in mind to test Snorlax out on my next Drizzle Team.

The Snorlax set would obviously be Curse/Return/Shadow Ball/filler. I hear it gets Selfdestruct now, so if you find yourself switching in late, into a CMer, break it’s sub while it CMs and goes for the 2HKO – except you explode the very first time it hits you :]
Note that this was Pre-XD moves, when I have some time I will make sure to add some of these into the guide.

Otherwise, use Rest. I’d also recommend a very, very defensive set, with almost no EVs in attack (even then it’ll still do more than SToss Blissey :/) – around 500 HP and 341 SpDef, Careful. Rest go in Def imo.
For Lanturn, I’d use a spread like this –
EVs: 40 HP / 160 Spd / 200 SAtk / 109 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
Doing EVs FOR me eh, you're certainly saving me a lot of trouble.


Jirachi should be mentioned, it resists Normal, has 60%(!) para rate now, and is overall very cool since lots of stuff can sponge Earthquakes on a Drizzle team.
Of course, how could I have forgotten the Serene Grace Thunder abusers.

And finally, Counter is decent (but not stellar) on Swampert imo, being one of the few Waters able to take SD Groudon Earthquake and counter it right back in his face.
I always thought of Counter to be an extra option on Swampert, but I'll mention it.

what the fuck did I miss this last month. If this isn’t a typo, somebody explain it to me please.
Umm, I'm not sure as to what you mean by this, are you trying to say CB Zapdos is bad? It worked pretty well for me in standard. Actually, I don't expect many people to actually use it in this metagame, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

I'll update all this in later, for now I'm going to go do something with my life.
 
khor said:
Jirachi should be mentioned, it resists Normal, has 60%(!) para rate now, and is overall very cool since lots of stuff can sponge Earthquakes on a Drizzle team.
There's also the option of Water Pulse for comedy value, and considering the 40% confusion rate allowing for parafusion when combined with Thunder and the 50% power boost from weather, it sure looks cool on paper.
 
uh huh back from doing things in my life to sitting on the internet playing pokemon so I guess I'll be updating this soon!

edit: freaktron, any Subflailers can use endure, however the higher speed inrain means Sub is a better choice imo, I'll put it in anyway.
 
I almost forgot-could Raikou work over Zappy? It has Calm Mind, is faster and no special weaknesses so thus won't get raped by boltbeam. I've used it to some extent.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top