Sub-Salac Infernape

Yuuki-kun

I've recently thought of this build for infernape

Fastest sweep

moves
nasty plot
grass knot
flamethrower
substitute
Timid nature
Item: Salac berry
6hp/252 sp.atk/252 speed

Your going to need those ev spreads for that build because max speed and max sp.atk are needed to outrun and kill scarfed pokes. Basically what you have to do is.
1)Sub until your hp is below 1/4
2)try to predict a switch then nasty plot while the sub is still there.
3)After that, your salac berry will activate + the ability blaze then sweep.

1.5 Stab flamethrower + 1.5 bonus from blaze + 1 nasty plot = x4 normal damage

Of course, your problem of being outspeed is cured by the salac berry.
346+1.5=420ish

So basically, its like your scarfed and wearing specs while keeping your ability to pick moves.

Post your comments would be greatly appriciated
 
This is actually a really cool idea. A big problem with infernape is its speed. Its fast, but if its outsped, it usually dies or switches out. The biggest problem I see is the losof type coverage though. Without CC, blissey can kill you with stoss once they know your 2 attack moves. And if you have to switch out after the salac boost, you probably wont survive any residual damage. I wish infernape had room for theis, but it struggles to cover everything with stone edge, CC, grass knot, and fire move. Add np or sd and you only have 3 moves to work with.
This could work well when special wall is dead.
Props to you, I never came up with a set.
 
It could work, but it seems to require a lot more team support than other brands of Infernape, and really misses the wall-breaking power Close Combat gives it. Your max damage with one Nasty Plot, Blaze, and Flame Thrower on Smogon Analysis Blissey (148 HP, no Spdef, neutral nature) tops out at 53%.

Adding to the problem of not being able to break walls with stall teams being so popular is that Sandstorm is up pretty frequently these days. Suddenly you're not looking at too many turns left alive if you sub down--and what else are you going to do? You have no offensive power without a Nasty Plot under your belt, no Close Combat, and Infernape certainly isn't sturdy enough to take something resembling a hit.

Was there a particular Scarfed Pokemon you were worried about? As far as common ones go: Lucario and Porygon-Z you can guaranteed OHKO with no NP and no Blaze if you run your own Scarf (Flamethrower or Close Combat/ Close Combat). Gengar is faster either way. Garchomp isn't OHKO'd so you're required to still have your sub up.

Just not really seeing what exactly this would be countering to justify the loss in utility from standard Mixape or the loss of HP Ice for Gliscor/Salamence/Garchomp from a straight special 'ape. Though I suppose dodging Paralysis would be nice?
 
I don't like this idea. You're wasting Ape's ability to sweep. Also there are a lot of choice scarf Pokemon that will still outspeed him, including the common CS Chomp.
 
Dude, I totally thought of something too!

Sub-Salac Set
(anything that ever held a Choice Scarf) @ Salac Berry
EVs
Substitute
Move
Move
Move

Aren't I creative? He gets as fast as the very common ScarfApe!

On a real side note, Subsalac is best attempted by things that can sweep a team with a boost and like not switching out. Lucario's the only one mentioned in the Dex, but Blaziken is a great Subsalac user. Use him instead of Infernape due to the higher Attack and Special Attack.

By the way guys, a Salac boost is equal to a Scarf boost, so don't say "lol Garchomp's faster" since he obviously doesn't hit 108 Base.

Sub-Salac NP PoryZ, on the other hand, is absolutely devastating.
 
JesiahTEG said:
I don't like this idea. You're wasting Ape's ability to sweep. Also there are a lot of choice scarf Pokemon that will still outspeed him, including the common CS Chomp.
Click to expand...


False.

My internet's going slowly so I don't have the time to do the calculations on a calculator, but after a Salac boost, no Scarfchomp is outrunning max speed Infernape. Common sense, Infernape a base speed of 108, Garchomp has a base speed of 102, so naturally, max speed Infernape after a Salac boost will outspeed a Scarfchomp.
 
LickThePaint said:
His set uses timid, if the chomp has max speed (possibly less) and Jolly, c'ya 'Nape!
Click to expand...
Uh, you realize timid is also a +speed nature right?

So let's refresh
Timid vs Jolly = same speed boost (+10%)
Salac vs Scarf = same speed boost (+50%)
252 speed EVs vs whatever = same speed or higher
Base 108 vs base 102 = yeah
 
You guys are weird. That's not what I meant. I meant you can switch in CS Chomp to infernape, and outspeed him while he's trying to sub. What's that ape gonna do, grass knot you? Flamethrower you? Yeah exactly, so I'll do a little bit of calculations for you guys as well.

CS Chomp=Rape Sub Salac Infernape.

Get it?

This isn't a diss to the creator of this thread. Use your set if you like it, it could work well in some situations, but I just feel it's wasting Infernape's insane movepool.

Also, I come to Smogon to discuss Pokemon, not to try and act arrogant by telling someone something you think they don't know, and saying things like, "False," or "Um...you do realize blah blah blah?," or "Don't say things like this and that." I'll say w/e I want really, regardless if you believe I'm right and wrong. Plus I probably know more about Infernape than all of you anyways. ^_^
 
JesiahTEG said:
You guys are weird. That's not what I meant. I meant you can switch in CS Chomp to infernape, and outspeed him while he's trying to sub. What's that ape gonna do, grass knot you? Flamethrower you? Yeah exactly, so I'll do a little bit of calculations for you guys as well.

CS Chomp=Rape Sub Salac Infernape.

Get it?

This isn't a diss to the creator of this thread. Use your set if you like it, it could work well in some situations, but I just feel it's wasting Infernape's insane movepool.

Also, I come to Smogon to discuss Pokemon, not to try and act arrogant by telling someone something you think they don't know, and saying things like, "False," or "Um...you do realize blah blah blah?," or "Don't say things like this and that." I'll say w/e I want really, regardless if you believe I'm right and wrong. Plus I probably know more about Infernape than all of you anyways. ^_^
Click to expand...

While I agree with you for the most part, CS Garchomp doesn't exactly have a free switch in on SubSalacApe.

If Infernape subs on the switch, then it can continue to sub until you end up confusing yourself with Outrage, putting you in a really crappy spot.

Now of course, you can say "But I can just use EQ, then" and yeah, you can, but have fun giving that inevitable Ground-immune a free switch in. Hope it's not someone like Azelf, Gyara, or Salamence, who can run right over your whole team with one turn of set up...
 
Chris is me said:
Dude, I totally thought of something too!

Sub-Salac Set
(anything that ever held a Choice Scarf) @ Salac Berry
EVs
Substitute
Move
Move
Move

Aren't I creative? He gets as fast as the very common ScarfApe!

On a real side note, Subsalac is best attempted by things that can sweep a team with a boost and like not switching out. Lucario's the only one mentioned in the Dex, but Blaziken is a great Subsalac user. Use him instead of Infernape due to the higher Attack and Special Attack.

By the way guys, a Salac boost is equal to a Scarf boost, so don't say "lol Garchomp's faster" since he obviously doesn't hit 108 Base.

Sub-Salac NP PoryZ, on the other hand, is absolutely devastating.
Click to expand...

Like he said (i lol'd). A Choice Scarf is better here. Your letting the ape Lose alot of his awsome moves.
 
Notty said:
While I agree with you for the most part, CS Garchomp doesn't exactly have a free switch in on SubSalacApe.

If Infernape subs on the switch, then it can continue to sub until you end up confusing yourself with Outrage, putting you in a really crappy spot.

Now of course, you can say "But I can just use EQ, then" and yeah, you can, but have fun giving that inevitable Ground-immune a free switch in. Hope it's not someone like Azelf, Gyara, or Salamence, who can run right over your whole team with one turn of set up...
Click to expand...

Well you can dragon claw, crunch, w/e. It doesn't really matter though, since no matter what move cs chomp uses, you can say that x pokemon can come in and stop you. The point is to force a switch. Also, good players capitalize on their forced switches, so yeah if I force a Pokemon out I'm going to make sure to deal some damage, or at least make the most of it.
 
JesiahTEG said:
You guys are weird. That's not what I meant. I meant you can switch in CS Chomp to infernape, and outspeed him while he's trying to sub. What's that ape gonna do, grass knot you? Flamethrower you? Yeah exactly, so I'll do a little bit of calculations for you guys as well.

CS Chomp=Rape Sub Salac Infernape.

Get it?

This isn't a diss to the creator of this thread. Use your set if you like it, it could work well in some situations, but I just feel it's wasting Infernape's insane movepool.

Also, I come to Smogon to discuss Pokemon, not to try and act arrogant by telling someone something you think they don't know, and saying things like, "False," or "Um...you do realize blah blah blah?," or "Don't say things like this and that." I'll say w/e I want really, regardless if you believe I'm right and wrong. Plus I probably know more about Infernape than all of you anyways. ^_^
Click to expand...
CS chomp outspeeds all 'apes except for CS ape (who runs CS ape? o_O) anyway. If you're switching your 'chomp into this, then you have to know that it's already a spec-based infernape, because otherwise you're risking 50-60% damage from close combat off the standard mix-ape. Likely they sub on the switch, and then when you outspeed them, they know it's scarfed and thus can switch to an appropriate counter to your eq or continue to sub in the face of your outrage until salac triggers. Not quite sure what they'd do then since neither attack is particularly effective on a garchomp, but either way, it's not a free switch in, and it's a rather silly one if you're assuming any of the standard mixed or physical apes.

I don't deny the issues that this set has, but don't come holier-than-thou-ing on me when you're doing the same thing.
 
IMO you just got an idea, and posted like 25 words about it. i appreciate you shared with us you're idea, but put more effort in. for example, 252 speed/ 252 special attack/ 6 speed is not divisble by 4, therefore salac and blaze will activate after 4 subs, which is very inconvenient.
 
Even if Infernape is faster at it, Lucario could potentially do this better. It is immune to Sandstream and Toxic Spikes, as well as resistant to Stealth Rock, which would otherwise mess up your plan.
 
Uh...at 346 after you get Salac you'd be at 519, so you're way off there dude. You can probably go at Modest or something and still outspeed a lot of shit with that 315+Salac. I'd also rather do Fire Blast and Close Combat, as tbh, the only thing you're not going to use a Fire move on are Flash Fire Pokes, and what are you going to do then, Grass Knot them? Close Combat's ability to stop Blissey will help a shitload too so w/e.
 
People who still claim Garchomp outspeeds despite seeing the 5 base difference, you guys fail.

Subsalac isn't so bad a strategy, but Infernape is not the best choice. I think Blaziken would do better.
 
Slice n Dice said:
seriously give it modest and fix the evs just to outspeed scarfchomp. it might need hp ice for killing chomp however.
Click to expand...

Modest 208 Spd will outspeed Adamant max speed Scarfchomp, but if it goes Jolly you also need a +spd nature (Same EVs, obviously).

Also, it's a 6 base speed difference. ;)

Again, though, with only two attacking moves you're really not getting the benefit of Scarf speed with still being able to change moves. Just use the Scarf and get broader coverage.
 
XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2 said:
Fail. You also need an ability that activates when your HP is low.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Sure, it helps, but it's far from necessary. Just look at Lucario. He's quite possibly the best (or one of the best) SubSalac sweepers in the game with Reversal + Crunch (or whatever other move you choose). What's his ability? Steadfast? Inner Focus? Yeah, see what I mean?
 
TheArrow2 said:
Not necessarily. Sure, it helps, but it's far from necessary. Just look at Lucario. He's quite possibly the best (or one of the best) SubSalac sweepers in the game with Reversal + Crunch (or whatever other move you choose). What's his ability? Steadfast? Inner Focus? Yeah, see what I mean?
Click to expand...


Fine, an ability that activates when the HP gets low and/or Reversal (one of the reasons Blaziken is so good is that it gets both, as well as STAB on both)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top