[OVERVIEW]
Suicune is one of the best blanket check Pokemon in the GSC OU metagame, using its impressive defensive stats to check many threats such as non-Curse Snorlax, Nidoking, Marowak, Tyranitar, and Charizard. Suicune's lack of physical weaknesses makes it great against most physical attackers, and it also fares quite well against mixed attackers, as they are typically vulnerable to Toxic when dropping Rest for status moves or coverage attacks. It will sometimes draw comparisons to other Water-type Pokemon like Vaporeon and Starmie. However, while Vaporeon can also run a RestTalk set, its lack of physical bulk means it is a far inferior wall and should instead focus on setting up with Growth. Starmie is very effective and versatile with Rapid Spin, a resistance to Fighting, Recover, and even STAB Psychic for Gengar. STAB Thunder OHKOes it, however, and status greatly hinders it unless there is Heal Bell support. Also, since Suicune's combination of Surf and Toxic hinders almost every Pokemon in the metagame, it has a surprising offensive presence of its own for such a defensive Pokemon. However, the prevalence of RestTalk Zapdos and Raikou limits its offensive potential and often relegates it to a defensive role.
[SET]
name: Defensive Tank
move 1: Surf
move 2: Toxic / Ice Beam
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk / Roar
item: Leftovers
[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
This set is designed to wall some offensive threats and threaten them in return with powerful attacks and Toxic. +6 Return from Snorlax and +2 Earthquake from Marowak never OHKO it, unboosted Double-Edge from Snorlax never 3HKOes it, and +1 critical hit Cross Chop from Machamp only OHKOes it 10.3% of the time. Suicune is a wall, to be sure, but it is surprisingly challenging to switch into without entering a disadvantageous position. Its ability to threaten Steel- and Ground-types and its general offensive presence distinguish it from other defensive walls—most notably Umbreon, which it often draws comparisons to.
Suicune is perhaps the best Toxic spreader in GSC OU. Toxic deters threats that lack Rest, such as phazing Zapdos and Cloyster, and it is even problematic for Curse Snorlax, which will be forced to use Rest not long after it becomes poisoned. Additionally, the combination of Toxic and a Water-type move is effective against almost all Pokemon in the metagame, especially those that lack RestTalk. The only notable exception is Tentacruel. Landing Toxic on integral Pokemon like Starmie and Cloyster can make an enormous difference in determining whether your team can keep Spikes up. Additionally, spreading poison on an opposing team in tandem with Roar or Whirlwind from Suicune itself or a teammate, such as Raikou, Zapdos, or Skarmory, makes for a nasty combination to inflict passive damage consistently.
However, Ice Beam can replace Toxic for a few good reasons: hitting Grass-types such as Exeggutor hard, hitting Zapdos and Dragonite hard, and taking advantage of Suicune's longevity to possibly inflict freezes, which are immensely crippling in GSC. Additionally, Ice Beam gives a 2/3 chance for Suicune to get an offensive move when using Sleep Talk. This is especially helpful to contend with Pokemon that threaten stall teams like Nidoking and Marowak. However, dropping Toxic makes Suicune setup fodder for Cloyster and Snorlax, which are two of the most common Pokemon in the metagame.
Sleep Talk prevents foes from having free turns while Suicune is sleeping and lets Suicune effectively absorb sleep-inducing moves from Pokemon like Jynx, Nidoking, Snorlax, and Exeggutor. It is especially crucial for Nidoking, whose Lovely Kiss is standard on many sets, Thunder usually 3HKOes Suicune, and Thief threatens to substantially reduce Suicune's longevity. Alternatively, Roar can prevent offensive Pokemon like Vaporeon and Snorlax from boosting, and, in tandem with Toxic, wear them down over time. Roar can make Suicune a threatening force if paired with Spikes support, particularly since so much of the metagame struggles against the combination of Toxic and Surf. However, without Sleep Talk, Suicune's inevitable Rest will provide free turns to dangerous foes such as Marowak and Nidoking, against which it is usually the first line of defense.
Team Options
=============
Raikou is the best check to Zapdos and Raikou, which are very powerful and present threats to Suicune. In return, Suicune can easily withstand any attacks from Ground-types. An option to consider is RestTalk Raikou, which lets it continuously impact the game while still handling Zapdos and Raikou. Raikou can also give a team more offense through powerful attacks and Roar alongside Spikes support. Once Suicune poisons Pokemon like Snorlax and Raikou, Raikou can later catch them on the switch with Roar, stacking Spikes and poison damage without letting them recover. Raikou also threatens every Spikes-immune Pokemon, racking up switches and passive damage.
Rapid Spin support is desirable with Suicune, as consistent damage via Spikes can leave it worn down quickly against dangerous foes such as Nidoking, Marowak, and Rhydon. Golem is one of the most reliable spinners, as its STAB Earthquake deters spinblockers from switching in. It can also absorb numerous attacks from non-Earthquake Snorlax and threaten foes such as Zapdos with Explosion. Cloyster and Forretress can set Spikes to help Suicune and its team create longer term pressure. However, Cloyster and Suicune stack an Electric weakness, which can be dangerous against common offensive combinations such as Gengar + Zapdos. Forretress is immune to Toxic and has a useful defensive typing against Snorlax and Explosion users, but it can struggle to safely remove Spikes against spinblockers and is specially frail. A Ghost-type in Misdreavus or Gengar can spinblock to preserve Spikes and nullify Explosions that are aimed at Suicune, which becomes easier when Suicune has poisoned the Explosion user. Non-Roar Suicune sets will appreciate a phazer teammate, such as Raikou, Golem, Skarmory, or Zapdos, to increase Spikes damage, deal with boosted Curse Snorlax, and avoid being trapped by Mean Look Umbreon or Misdreavus. Skarmory also provides excellent defensive coverage against the most physically powerful foes, including Belly Drum Snorlax, Curse + Earthquake Snorlax, and Curse Heracross, and it serves as a backup check to Marowak and Machamp.
Miltank is another good Suicune partner. While Suicune is excellent at dealing with Snorlax without Curse, it can struggle against Curse variants. Using Toxic against Curse Snorlax often works in the short term, as this compels it to use Rest; however, in the long run, Suicune is not able to endure Snorlax's boosted moves. To address this, Miltank's Growl can counteract Curse and stall Snorlax out of PP. Moreover, unlike Skarmory, Miltank can take on Curse Snorlax that have Fire- or Electric-type coverage. It also provides excellent support via Hell Bell. This is particularly helpful if Suicune lacks Sleep Talk. Blissey is another good Heal Bell support option, and unlike Miltank, it can fend off Pokemon with powerful special attacks like Zapdos.
For a more balanced team, Nidoking can provide the needed offensive prowess. Its immunity to Electric makes it a good pivot against Zapdos and Raikou, which can help teammates such as Snorlax and Raikou avoid taking a hit and potential paralysis from Thunder. Nidoking's Thief can also cripple a key foe limiting Suicune such as Zapdos or Snorlax.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
============
Mirror Coat Suicune can withstand even powerful special attacks like Thunder from Zapdos and OHKO it in return. However, this comes at the cost of most of Suicune's health and requires it to be healthy. Additionally, it decreases Suicune's effectiveness against physical attackers and foes such as Cloyster. This compromises its usefulness on defensive teams; however, if appearing among offensive teammates, Suicune’s presence may trigger increased caution from an opponent. Overall, using Mirror Coat is costly but can be worthwhile. Another option is to use RestTalk and Roar together. Overall, this tends to decrease Suicune's effectiveness against most foes, as Roar replaces a coverage or status move and fails when called by Sleep Talk against a slower foe, but the set could work for teams in need of a status-absorbing, phazing bulky Water-type.
Checks and Counters
===================
**Zapdos**: Zapdos is the greatest threat to Suicune, easily 2HKOing it with its powerful Thunder. RestTalk Zapdos can easily deal with Toxic Suicune, and its Spikes immunity means that it won't take consistent damage while switching in. While Ice Beam does 3HKO Zapdos, Suicune must risk a lot to attempt a KO. Non-RestTalk Zapdos can also take advantage of Suicune being forced out to paralyze its checks with Thunder Wave or rack up Spikes damage with Roar or Whirlwind, although it must beware of Toxic if it lacks Rest.
**Raikou**: Raikou 2HKOes Zapdos with Thunder and Thunderbolt, whereas Suicune cannot even 4HKO it in return. RestTalk variants have virtually nothing to fear from Suicune, as they can easily cure themselves of poison. However, Roar variants fear Toxic, as they can be taken advantage of by Suicune's teammates when forced to use Rest.
**Tentacruel**: Tentacruel is not as common as Zapdos or Raikou, but it is one of the greatest threats to RestTalk Suicune. Its immunity to Toxic and high Special Defense allow it to switch in with impunity and set up Swords Dance or Substitute. However, Roar variants of Suicune, while still not able to harm Tentacruel, can readily prevent it from setting up. Rapid Spin variants can easily remove Spikes against Suicune.
**Snorlax**: While Suicune is a common initial switch-in to Snorlax, it primarily serves to scout without having to send in a more passive Pokemon such as Skarmory. Taking Toxic puts Snorlax in the undesirable position of having to use Rest, and even a +1 Double-Edge generally can't bring Suicune dangerously low. However, in the long run, and especially if Spikes is on Suicune's side of the field, Snorlax has chances to KO with a critical hit Double-Edge or set up Curse or Belly Drum while it's sleeping. Roar Suicune is capable of preventing setup temporarily, but, as with RestTalk + Toxic Suicune, Snorlax has the advantage in the long run. It also completely dominates Suicune with neither Roar nor Toxic.
**Growth Sweepers**: Espeon and Vaporeon can break through Suicune's bulk by setting up with Growth. Suicune's Surf is only a 4HKO on Espeon, and Espeon can potentially 3HKO with +1 Psychic, heal off Surf damage with Morning Sun, block Toxic with Substitute, and use Baton Pass to send Special Attack boosts to a teammate. Vaporeon takes a pittance from Surf and usually has Rest to heal itself of Toxic or Baton Pass to pass Special Attack boosts to a teammate. At +5 Special Attack, Vaporeon can 3HKO Suicune with Surf. However, if Suicune has Roar, Vaporeon cannot use Suicune as setup fodder or achieve anything offensively until it is the last remaining Pokemon.
**Exeggutor**: While Exeggutor fears Toxic and Ice Beam from Suicune, it takes little from Surf and can regain any lost health with Giga Drain if Suicune stays in. Giga Drain has a solid chance of 3HKOing Suicune, which makes it risky for Suicune to stay in and fight. If Suicune is its team's primary status absorber, this can cause problems, as being forced to switch lets Exeggutor cripple its teammates. Explosion also does huge damage to Suicune, which could pave the way for a Rock-, Ground-, or Fire-type to wreak havoc.
**Gengar**: Gengar is quite annoying for Suicune, as it is one of the few Toxic-immune Pokemon that has an advantageous matchup. Its Thunder or Thunderbolt always 3HKOes Suicune, and the threat of Thief, Hypnosis, and Explosion targeting either Suicune or its teammates makes it risky to deal with. A full health Suicune can, however, take one hit from Gengar safely and hit it for substantial damage in return with Surf.
**Explosion and Self-Destruct**: While Suicune's bulk lets it withstand all but the strongest of attacks, Pokemon with Explosion and Self-Destruct can instantly KO it with minimal chip damage or bring it to very low health. Exeggutor, Golem, Gengar, Cloyster, Forretress, Steelix, Snorlax, and Muk all pose serious threats to Suicune for this reason. With Suicune out of the picture, threats like Charizard, Nidoking, Tyranitar, Marowak, Moltres, and Dragonite can easily get out of hand, so Suicune should tread carefully when facing the aforementioned threats. It should pay close attention to what teammates appear alongside them to determine whether its health can be risked.
**Thief**: Thief is dangerous to Suicune's usual defensive teams, so it is important to be generally wary when against common Thief users, such as Nidoking, Jynx, Exeggutor, and Gengar, and try to determine which teammate's item is least critical in that particular game. If Suicune's Leftovers are stolen, it will be much less effective at checking foes such as Snorlax, Machamp, and Nidoking, especially if Spikes are on the field.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[mc56556, 483288]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm, 15210], [M Dragon, 21345]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [CryoGyro, 331519]]
Suicune is one of the best blanket check Pokemon in the GSC OU metagame, using its impressive defensive stats to check many threats such as non-Curse Snorlax, Nidoking, Marowak, Tyranitar, and Charizard. Suicune's lack of physical weaknesses makes it great against most physical attackers, and it also fares quite well against mixed attackers, as they are typically vulnerable to Toxic when dropping Rest for status moves or coverage attacks. It will sometimes draw comparisons to other Water-type Pokemon like Vaporeon and Starmie. However, while Vaporeon can also run a RestTalk set, its lack of physical bulk means it is a far inferior wall and should instead focus on setting up with Growth. Starmie is very effective and versatile with Rapid Spin, a resistance to Fighting, Recover, and even STAB Psychic for Gengar. STAB Thunder OHKOes it, however, and status greatly hinders it unless there is Heal Bell support. Also, since Suicune's combination of Surf and Toxic hinders almost every Pokemon in the metagame, it has a surprising offensive presence of its own for such a defensive Pokemon. However, the prevalence of RestTalk Zapdos and Raikou limits its offensive potential and often relegates it to a defensive role.
[SET]
name: Defensive Tank
move 1: Surf
move 2: Toxic / Ice Beam
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk / Roar
item: Leftovers
[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
This set is designed to wall some offensive threats and threaten them in return with powerful attacks and Toxic. +6 Return from Snorlax and +2 Earthquake from Marowak never OHKO it, unboosted Double-Edge from Snorlax never 3HKOes it, and +1 critical hit Cross Chop from Machamp only OHKOes it 10.3% of the time. Suicune is a wall, to be sure, but it is surprisingly challenging to switch into without entering a disadvantageous position. Its ability to threaten Steel- and Ground-types and its general offensive presence distinguish it from other defensive walls—most notably Umbreon, which it often draws comparisons to.
Suicune is perhaps the best Toxic spreader in GSC OU. Toxic deters threats that lack Rest, such as phazing Zapdos and Cloyster, and it is even problematic for Curse Snorlax, which will be forced to use Rest not long after it becomes poisoned. Additionally, the combination of Toxic and a Water-type move is effective against almost all Pokemon in the metagame, especially those that lack RestTalk. The only notable exception is Tentacruel. Landing Toxic on integral Pokemon like Starmie and Cloyster can make an enormous difference in determining whether your team can keep Spikes up. Additionally, spreading poison on an opposing team in tandem with Roar or Whirlwind from Suicune itself or a teammate, such as Raikou, Zapdos, or Skarmory, makes for a nasty combination to inflict passive damage consistently.
However, Ice Beam can replace Toxic for a few good reasons: hitting Grass-types such as Exeggutor hard, hitting Zapdos and Dragonite hard, and taking advantage of Suicune's longevity to possibly inflict freezes, which are immensely crippling in GSC. Additionally, Ice Beam gives a 2/3 chance for Suicune to get an offensive move when using Sleep Talk. This is especially helpful to contend with Pokemon that threaten stall teams like Nidoking and Marowak. However, dropping Toxic makes Suicune setup fodder for Cloyster and Snorlax, which are two of the most common Pokemon in the metagame.
Sleep Talk prevents foes from having free turns while Suicune is sleeping and lets Suicune effectively absorb sleep-inducing moves from Pokemon like Jynx, Nidoking, Snorlax, and Exeggutor. It is especially crucial for Nidoking, whose Lovely Kiss is standard on many sets, Thunder usually 3HKOes Suicune, and Thief threatens to substantially reduce Suicune's longevity. Alternatively, Roar can prevent offensive Pokemon like Vaporeon and Snorlax from boosting, and, in tandem with Toxic, wear them down over time. Roar can make Suicune a threatening force if paired with Spikes support, particularly since so much of the metagame struggles against the combination of Toxic and Surf. However, without Sleep Talk, Suicune's inevitable Rest will provide free turns to dangerous foes such as Marowak and Nidoking, against which it is usually the first line of defense.
Team Options
=============
Raikou is the best check to Zapdos and Raikou, which are very powerful and present threats to Suicune. In return, Suicune can easily withstand any attacks from Ground-types. An option to consider is RestTalk Raikou, which lets it continuously impact the game while still handling Zapdos and Raikou. Raikou can also give a team more offense through powerful attacks and Roar alongside Spikes support. Once Suicune poisons Pokemon like Snorlax and Raikou, Raikou can later catch them on the switch with Roar, stacking Spikes and poison damage without letting them recover. Raikou also threatens every Spikes-immune Pokemon, racking up switches and passive damage.
Rapid Spin support is desirable with Suicune, as consistent damage via Spikes can leave it worn down quickly against dangerous foes such as Nidoking, Marowak, and Rhydon. Golem is one of the most reliable spinners, as its STAB Earthquake deters spinblockers from switching in. It can also absorb numerous attacks from non-Earthquake Snorlax and threaten foes such as Zapdos with Explosion. Cloyster and Forretress can set Spikes to help Suicune and its team create longer term pressure. However, Cloyster and Suicune stack an Electric weakness, which can be dangerous against common offensive combinations such as Gengar + Zapdos. Forretress is immune to Toxic and has a useful defensive typing against Snorlax and Explosion users, but it can struggle to safely remove Spikes against spinblockers and is specially frail. A Ghost-type in Misdreavus or Gengar can spinblock to preserve Spikes and nullify Explosions that are aimed at Suicune, which becomes easier when Suicune has poisoned the Explosion user. Non-Roar Suicune sets will appreciate a phazer teammate, such as Raikou, Golem, Skarmory, or Zapdos, to increase Spikes damage, deal with boosted Curse Snorlax, and avoid being trapped by Mean Look Umbreon or Misdreavus. Skarmory also provides excellent defensive coverage against the most physically powerful foes, including Belly Drum Snorlax, Curse + Earthquake Snorlax, and Curse Heracross, and it serves as a backup check to Marowak and Machamp.
Miltank is another good Suicune partner. While Suicune is excellent at dealing with Snorlax without Curse, it can struggle against Curse variants. Using Toxic against Curse Snorlax often works in the short term, as this compels it to use Rest; however, in the long run, Suicune is not able to endure Snorlax's boosted moves. To address this, Miltank's Growl can counteract Curse and stall Snorlax out of PP. Moreover, unlike Skarmory, Miltank can take on Curse Snorlax that have Fire- or Electric-type coverage. It also provides excellent support via Hell Bell. This is particularly helpful if Suicune lacks Sleep Talk. Blissey is another good Heal Bell support option, and unlike Miltank, it can fend off Pokemon with powerful special attacks like Zapdos.
For a more balanced team, Nidoking can provide the needed offensive prowess. Its immunity to Electric makes it a good pivot against Zapdos and Raikou, which can help teammates such as Snorlax and Raikou avoid taking a hit and potential paralysis from Thunder. Nidoking's Thief can also cripple a key foe limiting Suicune such as Zapdos or Snorlax.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
============
Mirror Coat Suicune can withstand even powerful special attacks like Thunder from Zapdos and OHKO it in return. However, this comes at the cost of most of Suicune's health and requires it to be healthy. Additionally, it decreases Suicune's effectiveness against physical attackers and foes such as Cloyster. This compromises its usefulness on defensive teams; however, if appearing among offensive teammates, Suicune’s presence may trigger increased caution from an opponent. Overall, using Mirror Coat is costly but can be worthwhile. Another option is to use RestTalk and Roar together. Overall, this tends to decrease Suicune's effectiveness against most foes, as Roar replaces a coverage or status move and fails when called by Sleep Talk against a slower foe, but the set could work for teams in need of a status-absorbing, phazing bulky Water-type.
Checks and Counters
===================
**Zapdos**: Zapdos is the greatest threat to Suicune, easily 2HKOing it with its powerful Thunder. RestTalk Zapdos can easily deal with Toxic Suicune, and its Spikes immunity means that it won't take consistent damage while switching in. While Ice Beam does 3HKO Zapdos, Suicune must risk a lot to attempt a KO. Non-RestTalk Zapdos can also take advantage of Suicune being forced out to paralyze its checks with Thunder Wave or rack up Spikes damage with Roar or Whirlwind, although it must beware of Toxic if it lacks Rest.
**Raikou**: Raikou 2HKOes Zapdos with Thunder and Thunderbolt, whereas Suicune cannot even 4HKO it in return. RestTalk variants have virtually nothing to fear from Suicune, as they can easily cure themselves of poison. However, Roar variants fear Toxic, as they can be taken advantage of by Suicune's teammates when forced to use Rest.
**Tentacruel**: Tentacruel is not as common as Zapdos or Raikou, but it is one of the greatest threats to RestTalk Suicune. Its immunity to Toxic and high Special Defense allow it to switch in with impunity and set up Swords Dance or Substitute. However, Roar variants of Suicune, while still not able to harm Tentacruel, can readily prevent it from setting up. Rapid Spin variants can easily remove Spikes against Suicune.
**Snorlax**: While Suicune is a common initial switch-in to Snorlax, it primarily serves to scout without having to send in a more passive Pokemon such as Skarmory. Taking Toxic puts Snorlax in the undesirable position of having to use Rest, and even a +1 Double-Edge generally can't bring Suicune dangerously low. However, in the long run, and especially if Spikes is on Suicune's side of the field, Snorlax has chances to KO with a critical hit Double-Edge or set up Curse or Belly Drum while it's sleeping. Roar Suicune is capable of preventing setup temporarily, but, as with RestTalk + Toxic Suicune, Snorlax has the advantage in the long run. It also completely dominates Suicune with neither Roar nor Toxic.
**Growth Sweepers**: Espeon and Vaporeon can break through Suicune's bulk by setting up with Growth. Suicune's Surf is only a 4HKO on Espeon, and Espeon can potentially 3HKO with +1 Psychic, heal off Surf damage with Morning Sun, block Toxic with Substitute, and use Baton Pass to send Special Attack boosts to a teammate. Vaporeon takes a pittance from Surf and usually has Rest to heal itself of Toxic or Baton Pass to pass Special Attack boosts to a teammate. At +5 Special Attack, Vaporeon can 3HKO Suicune with Surf. However, if Suicune has Roar, Vaporeon cannot use Suicune as setup fodder or achieve anything offensively until it is the last remaining Pokemon.
**Exeggutor**: While Exeggutor fears Toxic and Ice Beam from Suicune, it takes little from Surf and can regain any lost health with Giga Drain if Suicune stays in. Giga Drain has a solid chance of 3HKOing Suicune, which makes it risky for Suicune to stay in and fight. If Suicune is its team's primary status absorber, this can cause problems, as being forced to switch lets Exeggutor cripple its teammates. Explosion also does huge damage to Suicune, which could pave the way for a Rock-, Ground-, or Fire-type to wreak havoc.
**Gengar**: Gengar is quite annoying for Suicune, as it is one of the few Toxic-immune Pokemon that has an advantageous matchup. Its Thunder or Thunderbolt always 3HKOes Suicune, and the threat of Thief, Hypnosis, and Explosion targeting either Suicune or its teammates makes it risky to deal with. A full health Suicune can, however, take one hit from Gengar safely and hit it for substantial damage in return with Surf.
**Explosion and Self-Destruct**: While Suicune's bulk lets it withstand all but the strongest of attacks, Pokemon with Explosion and Self-Destruct can instantly KO it with minimal chip damage or bring it to very low health. Exeggutor, Golem, Gengar, Cloyster, Forretress, Steelix, Snorlax, and Muk all pose serious threats to Suicune for this reason. With Suicune out of the picture, threats like Charizard, Nidoking, Tyranitar, Marowak, Moltres, and Dragonite can easily get out of hand, so Suicune should tread carefully when facing the aforementioned threats. It should pay close attention to what teammates appear alongside them to determine whether its health can be risked.
**Thief**: Thief is dangerous to Suicune's usual defensive teams, so it is important to be generally wary when against common Thief users, such as Nidoking, Jynx, Exeggutor, and Gengar, and try to determine which teammate's item is least critical in that particular game. If Suicune's Leftovers are stolen, it will be much less effective at checking foes such as Snorlax, Machamp, and Nidoking, especially if Spikes are on the field.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[mc56556, 483288]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm, 15210], [M Dragon, 21345]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [CryoGyro, 331519]]
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