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@ Chillarmy: Thanks a lot! You bring up some valid points about Mence. The thing I find with mence is the 4 moveslot syndrome thing. I really want to run roost, but that means something else will be walling me, but without roost LO and SR damage really wear the thing down. Looks like I have more testing to do :/.
Hey Brizznetz, loving this team. Anyways I have some small suggestions. On ninetales hp fighting and safeguard appear to be filler; I highly recommend replacing them with the moves Roar and Sunny Day. Roar makes sure pokes don't set up on you, while on a predicted weather starter switch-in, you can use Sunny Day and their weather lead will have taken hazard damage for nothing. Naturally, Roar is the more useful of the two, but I believe both to be better then your current moves. Next, even though you like to fake CB on d-nite I'm guessing, I'd have to recommend Dragon Claw over Outrage. It doesn 't hit as hard, but if a bronzong or skarm comes in, you can just fire punch them instead of locking yourself into Outrage.
@ That Noob: Thanks for the rate man. Roar + Sunny day sounds interesting. Roar wold definitley help with my CM Latias weakness. I kinda like Safeguard though. I don't even have to use Dragonite's Lum Berry while setting up, but I'll try Sunny Day it out. Dragon Claw sounds nice, although I'm really liking the Outrage + Lum Berry combo. With Shiftry's HP Fire and Dragonites Fire Punch I can't usually spam Outrage more recklessly.
Hey Brizz, sorry for taking so long to get to this. I took a short hiatus from Pokemon. Anyway, on to the rate.
It's always better to hear the bad news first, so let's start with the things that give this team trouble.
Offensive Heatran
A high risk threat (especially if it has Air Balloon) because the only Pokemon who can safely switch into it are Dragonite and Latios. Unfortunately, neither of them have any attacks that can threaten Heatran.
Swords Dance Lucario
A very common Pokemon who can sweep your entire team if it has Ice Punch instead of Crunch and Stealth Rock is up.
Rain Stall
This playstyle puts a lot of pressure on your Dragonite, because Nite is your only consistent Politoed switch-in as well as your only Rain Stall Wall Breaker.
Life Orb Mamoswine
A huge threat to any Sun + Drag team. Earthquake destroys Fires while Ice Shard maims most Dragons and Chlorophyll abusers.
Expert Belt Hydreigon
Not a huge threat, because it's pretty rare. But if Latios is down or locked into a Psyshock/Hidden Power, then Hydreigon can punch huge holes in your team with Dragon Pulse and Focus Blast.
Now that the bad news is out of the way... The good news is most of these threats can be handled by a couple of nitpicks:
Air Balloon on Heatran
With a bulky Steel like Jirachi on the roster, Heatran wont be rushed on the field to block Dragon attacks - making it easier for Heatran to keep its Air Balloon intact throughout the match. Jirachi's Wish Passes make up for lack of Leftovers recovery anyway. Now opposing Heatrans and Mamoswines aren't so much of a threat.
U-turn/Fire Punch over Light Screen on Jirachi
Either one of these moves keep Jirachi from being Magnezone bait. U-turn also makes Wish Passing much easier.
More Speed on Ninetales
Excadrill isnt the only threat to Sun Teams whom Ninetales is able to revenge kill. Dont forget about Mamoswine and Lucario.
Protect over Hidden Power on Ninetales
Protect might end up wasting a turn of Safeguard, but it allows Ninetales to scout Specs Politoed so your Dragons wont end up switching into a +1 Ice Beam.
Calm Mind set over Choice Scarf set on Latios
A Bulky Calm Mind set with Recover gives your team another consistent Toed switch in, taking a lot of pressure of Dragonite. For the two attacks, I recommend Psyshock and Hidden Power [Fire]. Psyshock hits Infernape and Terrakion hard while also giving Latios a chance to beat Blissey 1 on 1 if Safeguard is up. Dragon Pulse isn't needed anyway since Air Balloon Heatran, Revenge Killing Shiftry, and Specially Defensive Jirachi can contain opposing Dragons.
Hidden Power Ice over Hidden Power Fire on Shiftry
Now that Latios is no longer Scarfed, you need Shiftry to be your revenge killer for +1 Speed Dragons. The other 4 Pokemon with Fire attacks should be enough to handle Steels anyway, plus they'll be getting battered by powerful Dragon attacks.
This is definitely a great Sun team. However, I do have a small beef with it: it seems like the more effort you put into it, the farther you get from the "Sun + Drag" strategy.
IMO the criteria for "Sun + Drag" is:
1. Ninetales
2. Powerhouse Dragon
3. Powerhouse Dragon
4. Naturally Fast Dragon
5. Heatran
6. Chlorophyll Abuser
The goal with this playstyle is to immediately threaten your opponent with powerful Dragon-typed moves (especially ones that don't take a turn to set up) so it forces your opponent to send out their Bulky Steel Pokemon - giving your team some momentum during a weather war so Ninetales can get an easy switch-in.
With all that said, I think you should go back to V3 of your team. I'm not sure what your movesets were or if you even still have the team, so I came up with some options for you to test out.
Powerhouse Dragon #1
Haxorus (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Dual Chop
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
I really wish this could be Garchomp. Garchomp would give this team a much needed Rock resist and fairly reliable Tyranitar switch-in. Oh well, Haxorus still brings the same offensive capabilities to the table. Hopefully when Shark Skin Garchomp is released, it'll be unbanned. The moveset is pretty self-explanatory, just knock down Walls with a +1 Outrage.
As I mentioned in the Minor Changes section, I made a few changes to your original moveset. First, Protect was added over Hidden Power. Yeah Protect wastes a turn of Safeguard, but it allows Ninetales to scout Specs Politoed so your Dragons wont end up switching into a +1 Ice Beam. Also, a bunch of EVs were added to Speed so Ninetales can revenge kill Lucario and Mamoswine, two potential sweepers to this team.
Naturally Fast Dragon
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
This could be any OU Dragon with a Choice Scarf. Latias and Latios, however, don't require a Scarf because they are the fastest Dragons in OU - they can easily revenge kill opposing Banded Dragons. Latios provides the team with a solid Fighting resistance, especially against Terrakion and Infernape. Choice Scarf Mence could also work here.
Tangrowth is the only Pokemon I added to your V3 line up. I love your Shiftry set, but Tangrowth's added bulk helps the team with Mamoswine, Tyranitar, and Sand teams. The main role for the Chlorophyll abuser is to revenge kill +1 Speed Dragons.
Powerhouse Dragon #2
Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast/Earth Power
Like Choice Band Haxorus, there's not much to say here. Just break down Walls with a powerful Dragon attack. A -2 Fire Blast still manages to OHKO most Steels in the Sun. Its also worth noting that a Choice Spec set with U-Turn over Dark Pulse could work here as well, but that might make Calm Mind Reuniclus a potential problem.
Heatran
Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SDef / 12 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Roar
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
Heatran's mainly here to deal with set up sweepers (most notably Cloyster and Volcarona) and to sponge opposing Dragon attacks. An Air Balloon set could work too, but those sets are really only effective when there's another Steel on the roster.
Thanks for the rate magma! I was bit to hasty in making changes after the recent bans. I actually already bumped up the speed on Ninetales since my last update after seeing the mamo weakness. Unfortunatley, a +2 Extremspeed still hurts so Lucario is just something I'll have to beat with smart play. Your other suggetions look very promising and I'll definitley look into them once I finnish testing my other sun team (using this one over and over has gotten quite boring tbh).
I'll probably just let this thread die and look back at any other rates once I feel like laddering with this team again. Thank you everyone for the help!
