ORAS Doubles OU Sun Is Shining Version 2.0 VGC hybrid team 1700 86% GXE Peaked #5!

[Chris la estampida]

Welcome back. Now I bring my ultimate team, with more leads and combos.

(Last Battle VS KillianVGC ft. 50 shades of Whey one of my favourite players)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-231925263

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11th Dimension (Cresselia)
@ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 200 Def / 16 SpA / 56 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Sunny Day

Why sunny day? When the opponent have a climate team, all of his team is based on that. Like Politoed/Ludicolo/M-Swampert/Kingdra or Tyranitar/Excadrill. So, if the opposing team lose their boost, get a little useless, then I can choose if I want to f*ck a drizzlie or get some extra power for Heatran whitout depending for an ability. With the EV spread it survives: Bisharp Admt 252 atk life orb knock Off, Hydreigon Modest 252 sp atk life orb Dark pulse. Mental Herb let me put a 90% safe TR and a free turn if my opponent goes for Encore. Ice Beam give me a coverage from Salamence, Garchomp, Landorus Therian or not. Psychic is a good STAB move with a little chance to low the SP DEF of any pokemon.
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PistolsAtDown (Heatran)
@ Shuca Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 20 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam/substitude/Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Protect

The 20 iv speed let the Cresselia moves first on TR. Then I can set the sun and hit everything. Solarbeam works better than Sub 'cause you can surprise a Drizzlie user, or hit Rotom-W and Suicune. It works for Tyranitar too lol. The Flash fire is another ace of the team, you can deal with talonflame, charizard Y, another heatran etc. Shuca Berry is the key for survive when your opponent has things like HP ground, if you don't predict some Ground move, the berry will let you stay and hit, it works A LOT for me.
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FuckForever (Scrafty)
@ Assault Vest
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Super Fang

This little annoying thing is my ace. With my powerful steel types behind him, Scrafty has nothing to fear to the Fairy types. With the fake out and Super fang support, it gives to me a lot of chances to defeat stall pokemon, like Calm mind suicune. If Scrafty get burn, it can still lowering a lot of Hit Points with that fang. The EV spread and the Item gives me a lot of bulky, it survives a -1 Brave Bird, and like 3 OHKO from M-Kang Double Edge. I chose Moxie instead Intimidate because everyone is using Defiant Bisharp and Competitive Milotic.
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EnglishRose (Metagross)
@ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 180 HP / 244 Atk / 56 Def / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch/Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake/Substitude
- Protect

This monster can destroy almost everything, with the Clear Body you have nothing to fear Literally to intimidate. Some people think that M-Metagross would work better with the Jolly 252 spe, but you'll lose a lot of bulk. With the first set you can Outspeed a sucker punch from Bisharp with TR (non mega) with Bullet Punch, and when you mega evolve, you can outspeed the same sucker punch when the TR is over. Also if you T-Wave a kang, you going to outspeed their SP too. With the second you lose the coverage from Heatran, but you can avoid a Sucker Punch if you predict it and put a substitude, then you avoid the WOW, Spore and T-Wave too. The substitude is a lovely thing with M-Metagross, I prefer the second set, but the first works too.
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IzeOfTheWorld (Thundurus) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 136 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]/Grass Knot
- Thunder Wave
- Protect/Taunt

My thundurus is pretty slow, I would like to left the 252 ev sp atk and speed, but a really like the defensive one. One of the hardest things to deal, is another Thundurus faster than mine or things like Charizard Y and Garchomp. But when I try to use my 252 spe thundurus on TR, the same Pokes that I try to outspeed can do a counter. So I prefer the bulk. And if i'm not using TR I can send T-wave to get down that speed.
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Scared (Landorus-Therian) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn/Knock Off

Pretty standard moveset, but the same deal like thundurus. More bulk and less speed for TR. The 136 let me outspeed a lot of things,​

but in specific out speed Greninja with 1 point. You have to take care from Shaymin-sky, but all of my opponents think that i'm using the 252 spe and they prefer don't send out him.

Replays and Fails:
(The last battle)http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-220405099
(Solar surprise)http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-230114254
(Dealing with hax)http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-227646995
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-219505524
(dealing with widdly gimmick test friendly)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-217393374
(VGC)http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-210191256
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-209915272
(burned scrafty against rotom)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-217990252
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-217400995
(Dealing with another TR)http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-216286006
(Most recent battle)http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-231215425
LEADS AND COMBOS

Scrafty can do a Fake Out support and then I can set the TR, it works if the opponent don't bring things like Mega-Kangaskhan or another fake outer. Scrafty can protect cresselia from Hydreigon, Aegislash or another Ghost or Dark type. Cresselia can hit fighting types and save Scrafty some times.

Personaly my favorite. With the Taunt and T-wave support, I can protect Metagross from Paralysis, Burn or Sleep and put a Substitute. I can stop gimmick shit too, and prevent another Trick Room. They made a great duo.

I use this lead when I see another Thundurus, Gyarados, Physical attackers or Kangaskhan. If they bring a Kang, I use Superpower and trick room at the same time. If him send fake out to my Land I can put a safe TR, but if they flinch my Cress, I can hit the Kang and do 2 OHKO at the next turn. This lead can work to if you are fighting against Greninja, you can do the U-Turn stuff and get out from there.

(I have to finish now, but I'll try to upload more combos)

Be shure to left your opinion! You can find me on the ladder like Malba Tahan and ChrisTheStampede.

Steal me:
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11th Dimension (Cresselia) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 200 Def / 16 SpA / 56 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Sunny Day

FuckForever (Scrafty) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Super Fang

IzeOfTheWorld (Thundurus) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 136 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt

EnglishRose (Metagross) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 180 HP / 244 Atk / 56 Def / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Substitute
- Protect

Scared (Landorus-Therian) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 100 HP / 244 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn

PistolsAtDown (Heatran) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 20 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
- Protect

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[Yellow Paint]

Some suggestions:
give thundurus EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 80 SpA / 76 SpD to deal 75% to belly drum azumarill, while keeping most of your previous bulk.

for landorus, just give it 164 speed to outspeed skymin. The extra bulk really isn't worth missing that benchmark, as skymin is not ohkoed and will stay in if it has to.

 

[Chris la estampida]

Some suggestions:
give thundurus EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 80 SpA / 76 SpD to deal 75% to belly drum azumarill, while keeping most of your previous bulk.

for landorus, just give it 164 speed to outspeed skymin. The extra bulk really isn't worth missing that benchmark, as skymin is not ohkoed and will stay in if it has to.

Thanks I'll check it. If you want it, I just put some replayas ;D

 

[Ray Majore]

Hey there! This looks like a pretty solid Semi-TR team, being able to use different threats aside from the regular slap-ins like Amoonguss. However, I'd recommend some changes.

First, I'd like to have Hammer Arm over Earthquake/Substitute on Metagross. While it does benefit from Earthquake and Substitute in its own ways, the fact that Metagross is flexible in terms of speed within Trick Room and outside of it makes it really useful. Also, Earthquake gets no boosts from Tough Claws, making it quite a redundant move to pair it up with.

Second, try having a spread on Heatran of 56 HP/ 200 SpA/ 200 Spe or just max SpA/ max Spe/ 4 HP, with both set to Modest nature. This allows you to beat mid-speed tier threats like bulky Thundurus while still being able to pick off against lower speed tier threats like Amoonguss.

That's it! Have a nice day!

 

[shaian]

For Heatran it actually needs 17 Speed IV's to be exactly 1 point faster than 0 Spe Cresselia, not 20. Incidentally, with Heatran you can run a Modest nature and 0 Spe IV's to hit 159, which is 2 points faster than 0 Spe Cresselia, but honestly nothing very relevant exists between 157 and 159, bar random Azumarill's that are creeping 0 Spe Tyranitar. Modest also gives you the added benefit of reduced confusion damage. Also you should definitely run Leftovers instead of Shuca Berry, since Shuca is /generally/ awful, as it reduces Heatrans ability to switch in and out, and becomes useless after you've taken 20%~ish damage. If you are going to run Solarbeam (unorthodox tbqh) I'd suggest using a Life Orb, since without it you don't OHKO standard Rotom-W, and with it you have a 68.8% chance to OHKO. The primary downside to using a Life Orb is that it will wear Heatran down, especially fast in Heatrans case, as it does tend to switch in on a lot of things. Incidentally, I don't know why the previous rate suggested fast-trans, especially on a Semi-TR build, since now you have to worry about base 70's and below under Trick Room, the point of the build is to maintain bulk whilst also being able to retain a speed advantage.

Heatran @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Protect
- Substitute / Solarbeam

For Metagross, if you are going to opt for Hammer Arm I recommend switching the EV spread to 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe, which outruns max Speed 100's, but also has the noted benefit of outrunning max Speed Modest Hydreigon, letting you OHKO it with Hammer Arm. The Speed also lets you underspeed 0 Spe Rotom-formes, so you can Hammer Arm into a Trick Room setup. Also on the Metagross, I would definitely opt for Iron Head over Bullet Punch, as it hits significantly harder, and under Trick Room, you'll want to be able to get off as much damage as possible. Not to mention that outside of Trick Room, Metagross is still considerably fast so the priority isn't actually needed.

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Protect
- Hammer Arm

Just a last note:

• If you're not going to be using Intimidate on Scrafty, personally I think your logic is dubious on that regarding Bisharp (Milotic does put in a fair amount of work on your team though), than use Shed Skin since nothing is more useless than a burned Scrafty.

 

[Chris la estampida]

For Heatran it actually needs 17 Speed IV's to be exactly 1 point faster than 0 Spe Cresselia, not 20. Incidentally, with Heatran you can run a Modest nature and 0 Spe IV's to hit 159, which is 2 points faster than 0 Spe Cresselia, but honestly nothing very relevant exists between 157 and 159, bar random Azumarill's that are creeping 0 Spe Tyranitar. Modest also gives you the added benefit of reduced confusion damage. Also you should definitely run Leftovers instead of Shuca Berry, since Shuca is /generally/ awful, as it reduces Heatrans ability to switch in and out, and becomes useless after you've taken 20%~ish damage. If you are going to run Solarbeam (unorthodox tbqh) I'd suggest using a Life Orb, since without it you don't OHKO standard Rotom-W, and with it you have a 68.8% chance to OHKO. The primary downside to using a Life Orb is that it will wear Heatran down, especially fast in Heatrans case, as it does tend to switch in on a lot of things. Incidentally, I don't know why the previous rate suggested fast-trans, especially on a Semi-TR build, since now you have to worry about base 70's and below under Trick Room, the point of the build is to maintain bulk whilst also being able to retain a speed advantage.

Heatran @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Protect
- Substitute / Solarbeam

For Metagross, if you are going to opt for Hammer Arm I recommend switching the EV spread to 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe, which outruns max Speed 100's, but also has the noted benefit of outrunning max Speed Modest Hydreigon, letting you OHKO it with Hammer Arm. The Speed also lets you underspeed 0 Spe Rotom-formes, so you can Hammer Arm into a Trick Room setup. Also on the Metagross, I would definitely opt for Iron Head over Bullet Punch, as it hits significantly harder, and under Trick Room, you'll want to be able to get off as much damage as possible. Not to mention that outside of Trick Room, Metagross is still considerably fast so the priority isn't actually needed.

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Protect
- Hammer Arm

Just a last note:

• If you're not going to be using Intimidate on Scrafty, personally I think your logic is dubious on that regarding Bisharp (Milotic does put in a fair amount of work on your team though), than use Shed Skin since nothing is more useless than a burned Scrafty.

I put the 20 iv on Heat because remember that is a VGC Hybrid. If I put 17 IV Cress and Heatran have the same speed at LV 50. I don't really want to use solar beam before the sunny day XD. The Life orb can work, but I don't want to lose HP, beacause I can take some ground moves with 100% hp.The leftovers can work too, but only if I put a substitute, but I prefer to run Solar Beam. I don´t have anonther grass move or pokémon.

I'll try that set on Metagross, but I really like to use it with substitute. And for Scrafty, I put Moxie cause I want to deal with Intimidate, if I get burn, I can still using Knock Off or Super fang, but thanks

 

[Chris la estampida]

Hey there! This looks like a pretty solid Semi-TR team, being able to use different threats aside from the regular slap-ins like Amoonguss. However, I'd recommend some changes.

First, I'd like to have Hammer Arm over Earthquake/Substitute on Metagross. While it does benefit from Earthquake and Substitute in its own ways, the fact that Metagross is flexible in terms of speed within Trick Room and outside of it makes it really useful. Also, Earthquake gets no boosts from Tough Claws, making it quite a redundant move to pair it up with.

Second, try having a spread on Heatran of 56 HP/ 200 SpA/ 200 Spe or just max SpA/ max Spe/ 4 HP, with both set to Modest nature. This allows you to beat mid-speed tier threats like bulky Thundurus while still being able to pick off against lower speed tier threats like Amoonguss.

That's it! Have a nice day!

I don't want to out speed another heatran. Remember the TR. I need more bulk.

 

[Ray Majore]

I don't want to out speed another heatran. Remember the TR. I need more bulk.

This is quite confusing. Is this a full Trick Room team or just Semi-TR?

If it's full Trick Room, then there's something quite redundant on your team that cannot work with full TR, which is Scarf Landorus. Full Trick Room has a completely slow orientation by its nature, so scrap Landorus out for another setter like Dusclops, which is not Fake Out bait for non-Scrappy dudes. This gives you a really slow orientation, but believe me. I've faced Full TR more times. (Note: Full Trick Room tends to have a very offensive approach while being bulky as well, so I may have to contradict with the idea of Thundurus having T-Wave. That doesn't mean you put Swagger on it! <-lol)

If this is Semi-TR, I'll tell possible changes if this is the orientation of your team. (To get you to know the composition of Semi-TR, it's 1 TR Setter, 2 Slow Mode Pokemon which work mostly in TR but are great outside like Amoonguss, 1 In-between mode Pokemon that works on up to the 100 Speed tier like Mega Khan, and 2 Fast Mode Pokemon that work versus fast paced teams like Talonflame and Landorus-T.)

 

[shaian]

Well if you are directly translating this team into VGC, which I don't recommend since some of the threats between the two metas are different and more viable in one than they are in the other, I would suggest the Modest Heatran spread of Modest 0 Spe IV's since that is exactly 1 point faster than negative natured 0 Spe Cresselia at level 50 (Cresselia is 81 Spe, Heatran is 82). Also, if you do shift this team to VGC there is absolutely no reason to not have Intimidate on Scrafty, since you can just opt to not bring it versus opponents with Milotic or Bisharp.

 

[Haruno]

Why do you have a semi room team with no actual tr abusers? ._.

 

[Chris la estampida]

Why do you have a semi room team with no actual tr abusers? ._.

Because with middle speed you can control almost all Pokémon speed. With the TR on, I can go first against a lot of Scarfers or Base 90 speed. When the TR is off, I can go first against Trick room abusers. Just like Sejun Park

 

[Chris la estampida]

Well if you are directly translating this team into VGC, which I don't recommend since some of the threats between the two metas are different and more viable in one than they are in the other, I would suggest the Modest Heatran spread of Modest 0 Spe IV's since that is exactly 1 point faster than negative natured 0 Spe Cresselia at level 50 (Cresselia is 81 Spe, Heatran is 82). Also, if you do shift this team to VGC there is absolutely no reason to not have Intimidate on Scrafty, since you can just opt to not bring it versus opponents with Milotic or Bisharp.

I stole the idea of Moxie Scrafty from DeVonIngram, the sunny day too. And the Metagross and Thundurus from Paul Chua

VGC senior Final VGC 2013. The Moxie can let me stay in even if some Pokémon do an Intimidate

 

[qwerts]

This is very confusing, a hybrid team doesn't really work since there are different threats for each meta and the playstyles differ a large amount, especially with level 50 vs level 100. You can justify the scrafty for VGC where i guess it could be of use but in the long run for doubles intimidate is much much more useful. You can't just say it was used two years ago in a different game mode entirely so it's good now.

 

[Ray Majore]

This is very confusing, a hybrid team doesn't really work since there are different threats for each meta and the playstyles differ a large amount, especially with level 50 vs level 100. You can justify the scrafty for VGC where i guess it could be of use but in the long run for doubles intimidate is much much more useful. You can't just say it was used two years ago in a different game mode entirely so it's good now.

Which is why it's also confusing to rate it well and, basically and honestly, recommend anything.

 

[Chris la estampida]

This is very confusing, a hybrid team doesn't really work since there are different threats for each meta and the playstyles differ a large amount, especially with level 50 vs level 100. You can justify the scrafty for VGC where i guess it could be of use but in the long run for doubles intimidate is much much more useful. You can't just say it was used two years ago in a different game mode entirely so it's good now.

I know, the intimidate give me a lot of possibilities, but i was trying to screw a Bisharp lead, predicting the intimidate on Scrafty. But I change the ab a lot of times depending how I see the meta ganme

 

[shaian]

I have to agree with qwerts on advising away from doing a vgc / smogdubs crossover for a couple of reasons, 1) different threats, notably smogdubs has diancie, kyurem-b, darkrai, keldeo and other event legendaries, 2) EV's work differently, and 3) slightly different mechanics. Translating a team directly from one to the other, which is not impossible, would reduce the effectiveness of the team in both since it would have to account for things which aren't there in the other.

Examining this team from a purely smogdubs perspective, I would have to advise adopting a bulky Grass-type in place of Thundurus. The most obvious candidate is Amoonguss, as it helps your matchup versus Rain, which looks to have a strong matchup if you lose Cresselia or your opponent plays their Politoed carefully. It also helps you out versus Keldeo, as you currently have 1 thing which can safely switch in (Cresselia, who doesn't even want to switch in on Scald / Hydro Pump too often), as well as giving you a way to redirect Dark-type moves, as Darkrai (shoutout to Stratos) and Hydreigon also have a very, very good matchup against your team (once again, you have 1 reliable switch in, Scrafty, but Dark-types frequently have a partner for Fighting-types). Amoonguss also gives you something to abuse Trick Room with in conjunction to Heatran, and can absorb Fighting-, and Water-type moves for Heatran, and can Spore spam under Trick Room. For the set I recommend:

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Rage Powder
- Protect

An additional benefit to using Amoonguss is that due to Rage Powder you can redirect aimed Sucker Punches, etc, letting you use Metagross and Landorus-T a lot more aggressively. Also Landorus-T should really be EV'd to outrun 130's, 135's, or just hit max speed, as each of those speed tiers do have things which can beat it in some way. One cool idea, which is rather unorthodox but I think it could really help your team is to run max Speed Jolly Landorus-T. This isn't normally something I would recommend, but in this case it could be rather interesting, as for starters most Pokemon at +1 or +2 aim to only outrun Adamant Max Speed Scarf Lando, but in this case your Lando-T is faster. In cases of things such as Ludicolo, who normally hit 422 Spe at +2 you can now U-Turn on them into Cresselia to setup Sunny Day or Trick Room, rather than being outsped and OHKO'd. It's not terribly restrictive on the damage output side either as you still get all the same notably 2HKO's and 3HKO's, and most things which Lando-T normally OHKO's generally EV to survive the Adamant OHKO anyway, so you might find the additional speed more useful. But again, that last bit is just food for thought.

 

[Fangame10]

If you are using sunny day on Cressilia you might as well replace ice beam or psychic with moonlight imo, cress already destroys landorus on a regular bases and ice beam should not be needed

Edit: you don't have Calm mind smh.

 

[Steelixite]

What do you do against a Politoed Ludicolo lead? Here's how I see it: Turn one, Ludicolo fake out on to Cress, Protect with Heatran, next turn what's stopping Politoed and Ludicolo from double targeting and OHKOing Heatran?

 

[Chris la estampida]

If you are using sunny day on Cressilia you might as well replace ice beam or psychic with moonlight imo, cress already destroys landorus on a regular bases and ice beam should not be needed

Edit: you don't have Calm mind smh.

Cress pretend to brake some focus sashes. Like Bisharp, also it can hit Hydreigon or another dark type. I can down the HP from a Garchomp and do a OHKO with heat wave under the sun

 

[Chris la estampida]

What do you do against a Politoed Ludicolo lead? Here's how I see it: Turn one, Ludicolo fake out on to Cress, Protect with Heatran, next turn what's stopping Politoed and Ludicolo from double targeting and OHKOing Heatran?

lol. Why do I start with my heatran when I see a rainy team? I just wait a little before I can set a safety TR. I never star with that lead. I put it after the replays