Sun Stall, Featuring Charizard!

DrunkDemon

038.gif
549.gif
006.gif
051.gif
205.gif
113.gif


Welcome to my second RMT! I recently decided that I wanted to participate in the Dark Horse project, and after thinking about what Pokemon I would use, I finally decided on Charizard. While it's certainly not the greatest Pokemon, it does have a nice niche on Sun teams. I originally intended for this to be a balanced team, but as I tested out different Pokemon and sets, it became more defensive in nature. I hope you enjoy!

In Depth:

038.gif


Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Everyone here knows what Ninetales is for. Drought is crucial for any Sun based team, and Ninetales is the only Pokemon other than Groudon that can use it. While I would love to use a Pokemon with better stats for this role, this is what we're all stuck with. I'm running a defensive set, as preserving your weather summoner is extremely important when facing another weather user, and i want Ninetales to be able to at least take one hit if I have to send it in.

549.gif


Lilligant @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 64 SDef / 192 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Sleep Powder
- Healing Wish

Lilligant is an interesting compliment to the rest of the team, as it checks Tyranitar and Politoed, which Dugtrio can't take out very easily. It can also handle Terrakion, which is well received considering my defensive core doesn't handle it very well. It also has healing Wish, which can provide a risk free alternative to Wish if Chansey is down. Lilligant covers a lot of weaknesses the team would have otherwise, and can support the team even after those weaknesses are eliminated. This combination makes it an invaluable addition.

006.gif


Charizard @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Charizard's Special Attack and Speed are nothing to speak of on their own, but with Solar Power and a Choice Scarf, they get a respectable total of 522 and 447. Although a Choice Scarf set may seem out of place on a stall team, Pokemon Charizard switches on will more than likely be forced to switch out, which, much like Venusaur, allows the entry hazard damage to rack up. Charizard also serves as a useful late game clean up when many of the opponents Pokemon are weakened, allowing it to break through defenses it might not have before. When used intelligently, Charizard does it's job, and it does it well.

051.gif


Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Reversal
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Along with Charizard, Dugtrio makes up the offensive component of the team. Dugtrio is unique in that it has a very exclusive ability- Arena Trap. This allows it to isolate and pick off key threats to the team, such as opposing weather summoners, Spin Blockers, and threats like Heatran and Terrakion. In addition, it can set up the ever important Stealth Rocks, which greatly aids this teams stalling capabilities. This set allows Dugtrio an easy switch in assuming no entry hazards have been set up, but leaves it vulnerable against Pokemon it can't OHKO, like a defensive Politoed. I've found that this set is more generally applicable, so I think I'll stick with it.

205.gif


Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Volt Switch
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball

Out of all the team members, i was most reluctant to include Forretress, considering it's debilitating 4x Fire weakness is only amplified by the Sun. Honestly, if I could get rid of it, i would do so in a heartbeat, but as the team is now, it's role on the team is too vital to scrap it. Both Charizard and Ninetales are both very weak to Stealth Rocks, which can be very damaging in the drawn out games this play style promotes. It also lays Spikes down, ensuring great entry hazard coverage, which is a focus point of the team. If a couple of Pokemon get changed around so that Forretress' roles are covered by other team members, I would be glad to get rid of it.

113.gif


Chansey @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

And finally, we have Chansey. In addition to being a defensive powerhouse, Chansey can use Wish as a vital team support ability, or to simply stall out a Poisoned opponent in combination with Protect. Wish is especially important for Charizard and Dugtrio, who, between Solar Power and Reversal, tend to have a limited lifespan. Overall, I think Chansey does a great job of complimenting the team's weaknesses.

If you took the time to read all of this, I appreciate it very much. If you've found any issues, please point them out. Here's the export if you want to test the team out, as well as an offensive and defensive threat list.

Importable
Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Lilligant (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 64 SDef / 192 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Sleep Powder
- Healing Wish

Charizard (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Dugtrio (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Reversal
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Volt Switch
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

Standard OU Offensive Threats
Tyranitar:
Choice Band -Lilligant, Dugtrio depending on previous damage
Choice Scarf -^
Dragon Dance -^

Rotom-W:
Choice Scarf / Specs -Chansey, Lilligant to an extent
Support -^

Scizor:
Choice Band -Charizard, Ninetales
Swords Dance -^
Bulky Swords Dance -^

Dragonite:
Choice Band -Zard, Chansey and Forry for Rocks
Dragon Dance -^
Mixed - Ninetales, Chansey, Zard
Parashuffler - Forry, Chansey, Zard if off Volt Switch
Rain Abuse - Ninetales, Charizard, Chansey

Politoed:
Choice Specs / Scarf -Lilligant, Forry, Chansey, Dugtrio sometimes
3 Attacks -^

Heatran:
Standard -Dugtrio

Jirachi:
Substitute + Calm Mind / Wish + Calm Mind -Ninetales, Charizard, Chansey (depends on moveset)
Expert Belt -^
Choice Scarf -My best bet is to lock it on to something unfavorable. Trouble is that I can't outspeed it, and I can't OHKO it. Major threat.

Latios:
Life Orb / Expert Belt -Charizard, Ninetales
Choice Scarf / Specs -Chansey, Charizard vs Specs, Tales vs Scarf, Forry no HP Fire
Calm Mind -Zard, Lilligant? Very sketchy depending on who's out at the time. Another major threat.

Reuniclus:
Calm Mind -Zard? Lilligant? These calm mind sets are really rough for the team.
Offensive Trick Room -Forry, Tales vs Psychic variant

Haxorus:
Choice Scarf / Choice Band -Zard, Forry, Chansey if outrage locked
Dragon Dance -Forretress, Zard
Double Dance -Chansey, FOrry, Zard depending on boost

Ninetales:
Nasty Plot -Dugtrio
Choice Specs -Dugtrio, Chansey
Special Attacker -Dugtrio

Conkeldurr:
Bulk Up -Zard, Dugtrio
Flame Orb + 3 Attacks -Zard, Dugtrio

Celebi:
Nasty Plot Sweeper -Zard
Tinkerbell -Chansey, Zard
Choice Specs / Choice Scarf -Zard

Terrakion:
Double Dance -Lilligant, Zard
Choice Scarf / Choice Band -Lilligant, Zard
Substitute + Swords Dance -^

Gyarados:
Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance -Forry, Lilligant
Choice Band / Choice Scarf -^

Gengar:
Substitute + Disable / Pain Split -Dugtrio, Lilligant

Starmie:
Life Orb -Lilligant, Chansey
Rapid Spin -^
Choice Specs -^

Landorus:
Rock Polish / Swords Dance -Forretress, Chansey, Lilligant, Zard
Choice Scarf -Forretress, Lilligant
Substitute + 3 Attacks -Forretress, Lilligant, Zard, Chansey

Infernape:
Mixed Attacker -Charizard, Dugtrio
Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Booster -Charizard, Ninetales vs Nasty Plot
Choice Band -Forretress, Chansey, Ninetales, Dugtrio. It depends

Volcarona:
Offensive Quiver Dance -Zard, Dugtrio
Bulky Quiver Dance -^
Chesto Rest -^
Substitute -^

Magnezone:
Substitute -Zard, Tales, Dugtrio, Forretress
Choice Scarf / Choice Specs -^

Espeon:
Calm Mind -Dugtrio, Zard, Lilligant. Bettern than other CMs since it has less bulk.
Bulky Sun Attacker / Passer -set up entry hazards, switch to Dugtrio on BP

Salamence:
Dragon Dance -Zard if it hasn't set up, or juggle between defensive mons
Mixed -^
Defensive -^
Choice Scarf / Choice Band -^

Hydreigon:
Offensive -Chansey
Choice Specs / Choice Scarf -Chansey
Substitute -Chansey

Breloom:
Bulk Up -Zard, Ninetales, FOrretress
Sub Seed -Zard
Sub Punch -Zard

Latias:
Calm Mind -Chansey
Offensive Tank -Chansey
Choice Specs -^

Toxicroak:
Swords Dance -Forretress, Lilligant
Bulk Up -^

Lucario:
Swords Dance -Zard
Nasty Plot -Zard, Ninetales

Virizion:
Calm Mind -Zard, Tales, Dugtrio
Swords Dance -Zard, Forretress, Dugtrio
Dual Screens -Zard, Tales, Forretress, Dugtrio

Scrafty:
Dragon Dance -Zard, Dugtrio, Forretress
Bulk Up -^

Venusaur:
Special Growth -Ninetales, Lilligant
Mixed Growth -^
SubSeed -Ninetales

Metagross:
Stealth Rock -Zard, Ninetales, Forretress
Choice Scarf / Choice Band -^
Agility -^

Mienshao:
All-Out Attacker -Forretress, Dugtrio, Zard
Choice Scarf / Choice Band -^

Cloyster:
Shell Smash -Lilligant
Utility -Lilligant, Forretress

Mamoswine:
Physical Attacker -Chansey, Forretress
Focus Sash + Endeavor -Dugtrio

Darmanitan:
Choice Scarf / Choice Band -Chansey, Dugtrio
Tornadus:
Rain Abuser -Forretress, Charizard, Lilligant, Ninetales
Choice Specs -^

Abomasnow:
Choice Scarf -Ninetales, Charizard, Chansey, Dugtrio
SubSeed -^
Mixed Attacker -^

Alakazam:
Substitute + 3 Attacks -Ninetales
Offensive Calm Mind -Charizard, Lilligant
Focus Sash -Ninetales

Azelf:
Dual Screens -Charizard, Lilligant,
Lead -Forretress
Nasty Plot -Lilligant, Charizard, Ninetales, Chansey to an extent
Choice Band -^

Azumarill:
Choice Band -Chansey, Lilligant, Forretress

Deoxys-D:
Fast Spiker -Forretress, Chansey

Dugtrio:
Focus Sash -Forretress, Chansey
Choice Band -^

Empoleon:
Agility -Chansey
Choice Specs -^

Gorebyss:
SmashPass -Lilligant
Shell Smash Sweeper -Lilligant

Kingdra:
Dragon Dance -Lilligant, Forretress, Chansey
Rain Dance -^
Choice Specs -^

Kyurem:
Choice -Ninetales, Charizard
Substitute + 3 Attacks -Ninetales, Charizard

Victini:
Choice Band / Scarf -Ninetales, Charizard, Chansey
Physical Attacker -Forretress

Stoutland:
Choice Band -Ninetales, Charizard, Lilligant

Smeargle:
Baton Pass -Nothing reall

Sharpedo:
Speed Boost -Lilligant, Forretress

Rotom-C:
Choice Scarf / Choice Specs -Ninetales, Charizard
Support -^, Chansey

Standard OU Defensive Threats
Tyranitar:
Specially Defensive -Dugtrio, Lilligant, Forretress, Chansey

Rotom-W:
Standard -Lilligant, Chansey

Ferrothorn:
Standard -Ninetales, Charizard, Forretress

Politoed:
Defensive -Dugtrio, Lilligant

Gliscor:
Swords Dance -Forretress, Charizard
Substitute + Protect -Forretress
AcroBat -Forretress, Charizard
Defensive -^

Heatran:
Specially Defensive -Chansey, Dugtrio

Jirachi:
Specially Defensive -Forretress, Chansy

Skarmory:
Physically Defensive Spiker -Ninetales, Charizard, Forretress
Specially Defensive Spiker -^

Ninetales:
Specially Defensive -Chansey, Dugtrio

Celebi:
Physically Defensive -Charizard, Ninetales, Chansey

Forretress:
Physically Defensive Spiker -Ninetales, Charizard
Specially Defensive Spiker -^, Dugtrio

Gyarados:
RestTalk -Lilligant, Chansey

Jellicent:
Utility Counter -Lilligant

Tentacruel:
Toxic Spikes -Forretress, Chansey, Lilligant

Gastrodon:
Tank -Lilligant, Chansey

Espeon:
Dual Screens -Charizard, Lilligant, Dugtrio
Baton Pass -Forretress, Dugtrio

Blissey:
Support -Entry Hazards-->Chansey/Ninetales

Vaporeon:
Wish Support -Lilligant, Forretress

Latias:
Support -Chansey, Charizard

Bronzong:
Tank -Ninetales, Charizard
Dual Screens -^

Swampert:
Defensive -Lilligant, Forretress

Mew:
Stallbreaker -Lilligant, Charizard

Slowbro:
Tank -Lilligant, Chansey

Quagsire:
Curse -Lilligant
Specially Defensive -^
Physically Defensive -^

Cresselia:
Support -Chansey
Dual Screens -^, Forretress

Deoxys-D:
Bulky Spiker -Forretress
Toxic Staller -^, Chansey

Empoleon:
Specially Defensive -Dugtrio, Forretress

Hippowdon:
Physical Tank -Lilligant

Xatu:
Standard -Forretress, Ninetales
Dual Screens -^

Wobbuffet:
Bulky -Forretress

Whimsicott:
Prankster -Ninetales, Charizard

Tangrowth:
Physically Defensive -Ninetales, Charizard

Sableye:
Prankster -Forretress

Porygon2:
Defensive -Forretress, Ninetales, Chansey

Chansey:
Support -Ninetales, Forretress /w entry hazards
 
i notice two things off the bat.
First , two very common sun checks completly walk all over this team and those are :
Terrakion - almost any variant
Dnite - any variant.

Theres no real way to ko these threats, aside from maybe getting a burn off, or revenging terrak with duggy....
also theres no real answer to winning weather wars against politoed because you dont carry any moves to harm it with venusaur...or anything else really.

maybe try special defense heatran? with SR,Protect,Lavaplume and filler ( toxic? hp ice? earth power) to help ease the pains of dragons like latios or dnite walking all over you, and if your worried about other duggys use a balloon. for terrakion maybe try sub toxic stall gliscor, as he can do a great job off walling terrakions and alos toxic stalling politoed and ttar efficiently, easing ninetail's job of winning the war. would also fit in with the whole stall theme.
 
If you are looking for a spin blocker you could use Chandaleure. For Chansey change the 252 HP EVs to Special Defense and the 4 Speed EVs to HP.

I am not a huge fan of your Venusaur set since there are other SubSeeders that could do the job better because they are faster, like Jumpluff. I would change it to a Bulky Offensive set.

On Dugtrio change Stone Edge to Substitute and invest the four HP EVs into something else and change the HP IV to 21. This allows 50 HP Subs coming off of 201 HP is a way to beat stubborn Tyranitar that won't attack forcing your HP to 1.
 
Sun stall is really just another way of eliminating the pressure commonly placed on opponents by offensive sun teams. If you want to use Chansey and Forretress to absorb attacks and switch in your offensive threats when they can switch in unthreatened; I suggest swapping Venusaur for Lilligant. It helps out with Dragons a bit, and also eliminates Terrakion and other weather inducers. The Utility set allows you to bring a weakened Pokemon back to full health, while the retention of Sleep Powder lets you put down immediate threats.

Forretress is detrimental to your momentum as it allows many other Pokemon to walk all over you, so I suggest changing Toxic Spikes for Volt Switch. Stealth Rock and Spikes are more than enough for this team, and Volt Switch will force more switches on the opposing team and allow Venusaur and Charizard to come in for free. Other than that, nice use of Charizard as a Dark Horse!

Sets:
Lilligant @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 64 SDef / 192 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Healing Wish
- Sleep Powder
 
Thanks for the rates everyone!

@SharpEyes While I agree that those are major problems for the team, I'm not so sure that the Pokemon you suggested are the best. While Gliscor and Heatran are great in their own rights, it seems like trying to bring them in would disrupt a large part of the team, and might make an extreme overhaul necessary.

@Penance I don't think Chandelure would fit on this team considering it's overlap with Charizard. Some thing to consider, though. You'll reaelly have to explain the new EV spread for Chansey, since it's analysis seems pretty adamant regarding the EVs. I'll test out the last 2 changes, especially for Dugtrio.

@Hyperbeem Interesting suggestion regarding Lilligant. I haven't considered that as an option before. I'll test that out along side Penance's suggestion. Changing to Volt Switch immediately seems like a good idea. That one will probably get changed.
 
Sorry this has taken so long to update, but I've been busy this week and haven't had enough time. I've replaced Venusaur with Lilligant, as I've found it to better suited to this team. I also replaced Toxic Spikes with Volt Switch on Forretress. I've decided against changing Dugtrio's set, as I found that I had less opportunities to send it in with the substitute set. If there are any more recommendations, I would love to hear them.
 
For the EVs on Chansey already has a pretty massive HP and you might want to take physical hits better so 252/252 Defenses is probably the better way to go.
 
The solution to your spin blocker problem is to include Chandelure, as it is a good spin blocker and it is an excellent teammate for a Sun team. It can learn Fire Blast and Solarbeam, two excellent moves for sunny weather. However, you would have to sacrifice a team member in order to include Chandelure, and in addition, Chandelure is weak to Stealth Rock, which may discourage you from using it.

Another non-Fire type I like for sun teams is Hariyama (with Thick Fat) as it is a good check to a good deal of Sun abusers provided that it has Earthquake (or maybe even Dig in some cases). Hariyama is bulky enough to take on most attacks besides STAB Brave Bird and STAB Psychic, and it can do major damage with Brick Break, Cross Chop, Close Combat, or Superpower (of course you can pick which one to use).

I'm actually using Hariyama on a sun team now, and it is typically my go-to switch in if I am against a Sandstorm team, as it OHKOs Tyranitar with Brick Break.
 
@Penance I'll assume you mean special defense, as physical defense is already maxed. In that regard, the EV change only seems to decrease damage by a little bit, considering Chansey doesn't take moves like Focus Blast well even with higher sp defense. I'd also rather have the health because Chansey is supposed to wall physical and special attacks.

@Explorer As i said in a previous post, Chandelure overlaps too much with Charizard for it to be too useful. I've pretty much given up on a spin blocker at this point, as none of them seem to useful in this particular team. I'll probably edit that out of the OP. Hariyama is interesting, but it seems sub-optimal considering it would have to either replace Chansey or Forretress. I'll try it out though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top