Sun Team

[Ms. Mime]

This is my first RMT, so let me know if I'm doing anything wrong.

This team is my interpretation of a sun team. It has been working fairly well, but there are some hiccups. My only sun setter is Ninetales, which is not really all that great to rely on. I struggle against pokemon with Magic Bounce, as well as pokemon like Tyranitar who change my weather. Please give any advice you have as to how to deal with these problems, or other potential flaws you can see in my team.

Ninetales @ Heat Rock
Ability : Drought
- Flamethrower
- Will-o-Wisp
- Sunny Day
- Roar
252 HP / 4 Sp.A / 252 Sp.D (Calm)

Ninetales' Drought is what makes the team work, but there isn't enough of it. I've tried putting Charizard-Y on my team, but it's presence requires kicking off another member of my team, all of whom's jobs are pretty useful to me. Plus, I think Charizard is ugly. Anyways, I went with this set because it helps well against my team's weaknesses against physical attackers and set-up sweepers, and helps rack up hazard damage.

Victreebel @ Black Sludge
Ability : Chlorophyll
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Weather Ball
4 HP / 252 Sp.A / 252 Spe (Modest)

Victreebel is my Sweeper. I prefer it over Venusaur both visually and for weather ball, which annihilates so many steal types so much more effectively than Venusaur can with Hidden Power. Black Sludge is my preferred item, since victreebel is often switching in to fairly hurtful attacks, and prefers healing it up rather than dying after two attacks. It's sometimes a little hard to get a good switch in and get my growth, but I find I can often take out a few pokemon without growth, depending on what my opponent has left.

Heliolisk @ Choice Specs
Ability : Solar Power
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Volt Switch
4 HP / 252 Sp.A / 252 Spe (Modest)

Heliolisk is my secondary sweeper, who takes care of the things victreebel can't. In some battles, it's vitally useful, so I'm hesitant to kick it off, but of all my team it is the most frequently useless. It's too frail, hurts itself with solar power, is frequently too slow, and doesn't always hit quite hard enough for all that to be worth it. It used to run Hyper beam, but I cut that because it wasn't doing me any good. But Thunderbolt and Volt Switch might be a little repetitive.

Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability : Harvest
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Will-o-Wisp
- Phantom Force
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Sp.D (Careful)

Trevenant is my spinblocker, which might be a little outdated with defog around, but that's not all it can do. It works well in or out of sun, and can be a wonderful wall, who can spread some nice status to boot. Once it's counters are out of the way, I find this one can stall incredibly well, and spread some serious damage before going down.

Kabutops @ Focus Sash
Ability : Broken Armor
- Rapid Spin
- Aqua Jet
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Sp.D (Adamant)

I needed a rapid spinner. I needed a fire counter. I needed a priority move, and I needed someone who worked well with focus sash equipped. Kabutops is all of those things, but it still isn't perfect. It's stats are a little disappointing at times, and I hate relying on stone edge, and aqua jet has lowered power in the sun. Still, Kaubtops does it's job well. revenge killer, rapid spinner, and occasional sweeper, Kabutops is a great counter to Talonflame and other pokemon who could threaten my team without it there. I'm considering running speed rather than HP, because it's speed is pretty sad, and often it's downfall.

Deoxys-Defense @ Red Card
Ability : Pressure
- Taunt
- Magic Coat
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe (Timid)

When I first tried Deoxys out, I did not expect it to work as well as it did. Deoxys is a great way to get up the hazards that make my sweeping possible, while also using taunt and magic coat to stop my opponent from doing the same. I gave Deoxys speed EVS, because I like to outspeed as many setup sweepers as I can, in order to get a taunt in. Red Card causes some nice hazard damage, but can also be nice if my opponent manages to get a few boosts before I manage to taunt them. But I'm not sure it's worth it, so I might switch back to a more normal set, albeit perhaps with more physical defense investments to negate my teams physical weakness a bit more.

Let me know what you think! You can be as subtle or as dramatic as you like with your feedback. Anything from EV advice to move changes to team member switches are welcome. Thank you!

PS: All the non physical attackers have 0 Atk IVs.

 

[TreebeardtheTrevenant]

Do you have access in any way to Charzardite Y? Because I will not pretend to be an expert at this stuff, but I do know that Mega Charizard Y has access to Focus Blast. You could have it get onto the field to Tyranitar, which it can then Mega Evolve, utilize drought to change the weather back, and then destroy it with Focus Blast.

 

[Darnell]

Replace Victreebell with Mega Charizard Y, it will provide a good syenergy with Kabutops as well. Also, I know it isn't essential on every team but this one in particular lacks and Mega and Charizard Y would be the perfect choice for that, considering it can get up its' own sun without having to reply on Ninetales and is known for having coverage. You also have a Rapid Spinner on your team, therefore supporting it to come in without having to take Stealth Rock damage. You said you don't want to use it because it provides kicking of another member, Victreeball job can easily be replaced by Charizard Y, not so much setting up but being able to crush Steel types and taking out other Pokemon if needed.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost
Water - Trevenant
Electric - Trevanant and Heliolisk
Rock - N/A :(
Choice Scarf > Choice Specs and Focus Blast > Grass Knot, I noticed that your team lacks a Scarf'r and fortunately for you that can be fulfilled without having to replace one of your Pokemon, the power you get from Solar Power(Sun) + Modest BST Special Attack of 108 is already really high and going to be hitting Pokemon hard, I think your main objective is trying to keep Heliolisk alive to finish of Pokemon, or hit ones hard that come in. The Choice Scarf Volt Switch also provides you to gain momentum and gather the switch initiative over your opponents. The reason I have decided Focus Blast over Grass Knot is because Grass Knot hits Ground, Rock and Water(which can be taken care of with Volt Switch). Focus Blast however hits Dark, Normal, Ice, Steel AND Rock type Pokemon. It will easily be able to crush Pokemon such as Bisharp, Excadrill, Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Heatran and many more.

Heliolisk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Surf/Thunderbolt

 

[Ms. Mime]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! I will try out the suggestions for the heliolisk set, for sure. As for Charizard replacing Victreebel, I think I'll pass. Victreebel is one of my favorite pokemon, and the reason I built this team. In sun it outspeeds most choice scarf users, and can hit absurdly hard. A sun team without chlorophyll just seems a little ironic. Although I agree Charizard would work well on this team, so I'd consider putting it on despite my disliking it, just to try it out (I understand Smogon is all about competitive battling, rather than the casual battles with your favorite pokemon I prefer).

Question : Could Charizard replace Heliolisk?

 

[Ash Borer]

Sun is really bad. Your team is really weak to Dragonite, Heatran, Tyranitar, Charizard, and Latios, among others.

 

[Emmy2]

One issue I noticed, before getting into anything too major: If you are using Kabutops (or anything else) as a spinner, why is he sashed? You're going to step on a rock, thus breaking your sash, in order to spin. Kabutops also doesn't suit sun all too well (he's FAR better in rain, because swift swim destroys things and solves his speed issue).

Trevenant also doesn't make sense on the team. With sun not being permanent, you want your team to be hyper offensive (to take advantage of your 8 turns of sun), otherwise Ninetales doesn't have a job. Consider replacing him with Bisharp, to suit the necessary offensive nature of a sun team and discourage your opponent from defogging hazards away. Defog blocking >>> spin blocking If you still decide you want a spin blocker, replace something else on the team (heliolisk seems like the next thing to go) with a Chandelure, which can take advantage of the sun quite nicely.

 

[Ms. Mime]

One issue I noticed, before getting into anything too major: If you are using Kabutops (or anything else) as a spinner, why is he sashed? You're going to step on a rock, thus breaking your sash, in order to spin. Kabutops also doesn't suit sun all too well (he's FAR better in rain, because swift swim destroys things and solves his speed issue).

Trevenant also doesn't make sense on the team. With sun not being permanent, you want your team to be hyper offensive (to take advantage of your 8 turns of sun), otherwise Ninetales doesn't have a job. Consider replacing him with Bisharp, to suit the necessary offensive nature of a sun team and discourage your opponent from defogging hazards away. Defog blocking >>> spin blocking If you still decide you want a spin blocker, replace something else on the team (heliolisk seems like the next thing to go) with a Chandelure, which can take advantage of the sun quite nicely.

Good feedback, thanks! The reason for having kabutops on a sun team is to counter fire types, who are otherwise a terror to this team. Kabutops is especially good at countering Talonflame, but deals with most fire types pretty well even in the sun with Stone Edge. As for the sash, I have noticed the irony there, and might change it. I't's mostly there in case some on is setting up to much, and I need someone to switch in and aqua jet, or revenge kill with stone edge (in the event that I'm facing a team with no hazards). However, this might be stacking too many jobs on one pokemon, and making it do each one worse because of it.

As for Trevenent, you make a good point, too. I really enjoy playing with it, and it's a great back-up plan, but if I replaced it with another more offensive pokemon, I could see it making my team a lot more effective. I'm just so used to playing stall that an all-out offensive team seems unnatural.

I might actually try chandelure, like you said. It could replace the ghost type, and do a good job with fire types too.

Is there any reason bisharp is better at blocking defog than deoxys?

 

[Darnell]

Good feedback, thanks! The reason for having kabutops on a sun team is to counter fire types, who are otherwise a terror to this team. Kabutops is especially good at countering Talonflame, but deals with most fire types pretty well even in the sun with Stone Edge. As for the sash, I have noticed the irony there, and might change it. I't's mostly there in case some on is setting up to much, and I need someone to switch in and aqua jet, or revenge kill with stone edge (in the event that I'm facing a team with no hazards). However, this might be stacking too many jobs on one pokemon, and making it do each one worse because of it.

As for Trevenent, you make a good point, too. I really enjoy playing with it, and it's a great back-up plan, but if I replaced it with another more offensive pokemon, I could see it making my team a lot more effective. I'm just so used to playing stall that an all-out offensive team seems unnatural.

I might actually try chandelure, like you said. It could replace the ghost type, and do a good job with fire types too.

Is there any reason bisharp is better at blocking defog than deoxys?

Defog doesn't help Deoxys in any form of way, apart from Deoxys, depending on which one and the EVs that you are running, Taunting the Pokemon quickly and trying to get up some of its' own hazards, Bisharp has access to Defiant which will allow it to get the Attack boost once it has been hit my Defog, this makes the opponent a bit more cautious when trying to use it hoping that the Bisharp doesn't get the chance to come in.

You might also want to take Ash Borer comment into consideration on the Pokemon that you are currently going to struggle with and try Mamoswine on your team.

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash/Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Stealth Rock

 

[Emmy2]

If you are used to using all out stall, as you put it, don't make a sun team. Sun only lasts 8 turns at max, and should be on hyper offensive teams only.

If you want to counter fire types, Chandelure has Flash Fire and can spinblock. Overheat under the sun hurts a lot too. If you still want to use Kabutops to spin, change his item to Expert Belt or Life Orb. Life Orb does more damage overall but has the drawback of recoil (including on your spin). Expert Belt gives him a damage boost without recoil. Either item is better than sash, as I've said.

Consider using this as your Deoxys:

Deoxys-Defense @ Heat Rock
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt

This gives you an alt sun setter, and can allow you to get up a couple layers of hazards and sun before it dies.

Pair it with Bisharp to make sure your hazards stay up. Not sure if you've ever seen this strategy before (it's very common on mid + upper ladder hyper offense), but you switch Bisharp in on a predicted defog, and there's few things that can stop him at +2 if you use him right. Sure, they'll get your hazards away, but at what cost? :P Just his presence on a team could discourage defogging.

Hope that helped. :)

 

[Ms. Mime]

Defog doesn't help Deoxys in any form of way, apart from Deoxys, depending on which one and the EVs that you are running, Taunting the Pokemon quickly and trying to get up some of its' own hazards, Bisharp has access to Defiant which will allow it to get the Attack boost once it has been hit my Defog, this makes the opponent a bit more cautious when trying to use it hoping that the Bisharp doesn't get the chance to come in.

You might also want to take Ash Borer comment into consideration on the Pokemon that you are currently going to struggle with and try Mamoswine on your team.

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash/Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Stealth Rock

Yes, that bisharp strategy makes I lot of sense. I haven't seen that. I haven't paid bisharp much mind since last gen. I've been using bisharp, now, and it's working very well. As for Mamoswine, who would you replace it with? I can certainly see how it would help against those threats. Also, this might be a silly question, but is Piloswine a viable options at all? I think it is much cuter.

 

[Ms. Mime]

If you are used to using all out stall, as you put it, don't make a sun team. Sun only lasts 8 turns at max, and should be on hyper offensive teams only.

If you want to counter fire types, Chandelure has Flash Fire and can spinblock. Overheat under the sun hurts a lot too. If you still want to use Kabutops to spin, change his item to Expert Belt or Life Orb. Life Orb does more damage overall but has the drawback of recoil (including on your spin). Expert Belt gives him a damage boost without recoil. Either item is better than sash, as I've said.

Consider using this as your Deoxys:

Deoxys-Defense @ Heat Rock
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt

This gives you an alt sun setter, and can allow you to get up a couple layers of hazards and sun before it dies.

Pair it with Bisharp to make sure your hazards stay up. Not sure if you've ever seen this strategy before (it's very common on mid + upper ladder hyper offense), but you switch Bisharp in on a predicted defog, and there's few things that can stop him at +2 if you use him right. Sure, they'll get your hazards away, but at what cost? :P Just his presence on a team could discourage defogging.

Hope that helped. :)

I'm using this team specifically to learn about different strategies. I probably won't stick to it forever, but I figured I'd try and make it as good as I could while I am using it. What interests me in pokemon is the ability to explore. I don't want to be stuck a stall player forever, I want to be able to try things that are new, and make them work.

I've been using bisharp, and it's doing good. As for the deoxys set, with Sunny day, I'd be afraid to loose magic coat, which has helped me so many times, but I suppose it could be worth it.