Super Smash Bro Brawl Tournament discussion

makiri

makiri

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As per request, and to lessen the amount of off topic posts in the Brawl discussion thread, I have created this thread to discuss the upcoming Brawl Tournament. So please discuss the tournament here and not in the other thread, thank you.


The announcement:

I'd like to take this time to announce the First Smogon Brawl Tournament, I've been planning to do this since Wifi was announced, but thought now would be a good time to publically announce it due to the underwealming updates.

First thing is date, obviously sign ups will occur around the Brawl release date (Feb 10, 2008), but the actual tournament start date is still undecided. I want to include as many people as possible even if this means delaying the tournament a few weeks for our PAL users, but if that date is really far off AND if Nintendo drops the ball and doesn't included cross region Wifi play we obviously cannot include them (think Strikers).

Next is rules, while I know Smogon has quite a few seriously competitive Melee players who have no items, 4 stock, etc, since this will be close to release date I figured why not, lets have some fun with items, etc. So the list of current rules subject to change:

1 vs 1
5 Stock
Items: on and medium rate
Random stage

If you have any suggestions for additional rules or complaints about the current set, feel free to pm me or post in this thread.

Now since we don't know how Wifi will work in regards to unlockable characters, some of you might have to deal with spoilers and the like so do be prepared. Once more Wifi details get hammered out we will be able to fully plan additional things out.

Thats it for now, but hopefully we can get more details as we get closer to Brawl date.





Originally posted here my reasoning for certain rules:

Yeah I knew the resistance to items would be like this.

So first off let me say, Wifi battling may not even allow the adjusting of items or even stock as far as we know, but we would like to assume for now it will be just like a local match.

Secondly, this is just a purely fun tournament, theres no money on the line, you won't be embarrassed in the competitive Smash community, maybe a little bragging rights here at Smogon but really who comes to Smogon for Super Smash Bros related things (outside of this thread).

Let me give my reasoning on some of the rules.

5 stock - While yes according to the people who played Brawl at E for All agree that Brawl does seem slower than Melee, and most people can agree that 3 is too few. Now you have to remember 4 stock is there to get the large tournaments done in time, here its not a 1 day thing, you have a week deadline to battle your opponent and I'm sure a 5 stock match will not take 30 minutes, its one additional stock.

Random stage - If there is a stage like the Ice Climbers Melee stage or Super Flat World, everyone can agree those stages are no fun and can count on being banned in this tournament.

Items - I'm sure plenty of other communities will be having Brawl kick off tournaments including Smash World. And I'm also sure they plan on banning all items. Now bear with me here and hopefully you can see what I'm going for. To set this tournament apart from the ultra serious tournaments run at Smash World and other places I would like to include items to not only set this apart from the other tournaments but to get back to the simple days, when Smash was just a party game you played with your friends to have a ton of fun. Competitive Smash removes the party aspect and instead makes it very serious. I'm trying to return to those roots, remember scrambling for that one Pokeball or hiding a motion sensor bomb for your opponent to walk on? Maybe to compromise with the competitive Smash players we can include best 2 out of 3 or something similar, but I would really like to see all items (yes I said all) included. Yes letting someone get a Heart Container is a pain, but its like missing an Ice Beam vs a Garchomp you have to work around that problem and find another way to win.

Let me finish by saying, this isn't a typical Smash tournament, so the typical Smash tournament rules shouldn't apply, just a fun back to your roots party game. And yes I've played both and I know how competitive Smash works and how much more skill it involves, I just want to get as many people into this as possible, the new Smash players will have very little chance in a pure 1 on 1 match, lets give them a chance so they actually join and not be intimidated by a ton of rules.

Once again voice your complaints, I really would like to get as many people as possible on board for this tournament.
 
I'm with Firestorm. As I mentioned in the SSB:B thread, overall I don't care about the rules and just want to play, and anybody that's a true fan would also want to play regardless of the ruleset. I'm totally in, and best of 3 matches will work best. :D

Actually I just thought of this, what about a doubles tournament after the initial 1 vs. 1 tournament? We'd go by the usual rules (friendly fire would be on to prevent projectile camping, etc etc.) and I think it would be really fun. What do you guys say?
 
I don't even play against my friends with items on. K? I play ssbm to have fun. I play pokemon to have fun. How the freak can I have fun when I'm getting screwed over by items every match? You act like a tourney with items is more fun than one without. Y HALO THAR OPINION. I happen to be of the opinion that playing the game in its most basic form - just two people playing each other with no items - is the most fun. You can have all your wacky crazy item games whenever you want. I'm not a fan of it. How do we settle opposing viewpoints when it comes to a community tourney like this? Take a freaking vote. Take a freaking vote. Take a FREAKING vote. If your opinion clashes with the rest of the community, and that opinion is the one dictating the rules of the tourney... why are you running a tourney in the first place?

zerowing]but I would really like to see all items (yes I said all) included. Yes letting someone get a Heart Container is a pain said:
Just think at this like Pokemon. You can't just ban stuff off the bat until it has least been proved it is broken in a competitive situation, even if it seems obvious.
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How is banning items off the bat doing it before proving anything in a competitive situation? It's the same thing as the adv -> dp transition with groudon, kyorge, and mewtwo, etc, all STILL being banned. WITHOUT testing. In fact, stuff like palkia and dialga... were banned right off the bat. Why? Because it was OBVIOUS they were broken. Stuff that is obvious is banned. Period. Smash has already had experience with items, and several have already been proven broken, while the others contribute to luck. Now, stuff like stages being broken may take some play time, as they're well, new, but I would not be surprised if several stages are banned in tournies only weeks into competitive brawl.
 
Like I said before: Sounds great, and I wish to participate. If it turns out I suck at the competitive level then just bear with me.
 
i would definitly be in however keep in mind i am PAL
but i enjoy items as reciently i have been playing the classic smash bros. and like how enjoyable items make it i also like doubles aswell
 
I also don't care about the rules and such. I'm definitely in if I can make it on the day and the time. I honestly don't know a thing about Competitive Smash, but I'm willing to learn. :)

Doubles sounds awesome too! This is going to be as much fun as April 22nd. :P
 
leafgreen386 said:
I 100% refuse to participate in a tourney with heart containers (among other broken items) on.
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Fine, don't participate, problem solved.

I'm in this tournament for sure, and I also agree with best of 3 matches
 
Dude, I don't see a huge problem with items, because if you want no items, then go participate at the billions of tourneys they'll have over at SMW.

Not to mention HAY we can have multiple tourneys over here amirite
 
You're also acting like the pokeballs, bombs, and recovery items will always work AGAINST you. It's not like you can't pick those up and use them?

or, here's an idea, if you REALLY hate them, throw them off the stage?

If we do have them, i'm all for Low or Very Low. Medium rate spawns items at about every 30 seconds, and smash moves at a very fast pace. Having a battle disrupted every 30 seconds with the appearance of an item (not all of them are bombs, people!) to have your opponent (or you) dash to the side of a stage and grab it would be distracting, and a detriment, sometimes even to the person chasing after it!

tbh, it adds an entirely different level of skill and should be tested. Things like Dialga being banned doesn't count as a valid comparison. it's a completely different game where we could calculate the damage output to every possible Pokemon in every situation, and see max stats, etc. Smash is less restricted in this regard, as while some teams cant stop a CB Groudon, it's bullshit to assume someone can't walk left and move out of the way of a bomb, or press R. People familiar/adept at power shielding can conceivably send them back, Fox/Pit/Mario/others can reflect items anyways, and other characters can just avoid them. It's not that hard. The ONLY item i believe should be banned is Power Star, IF were even talking about individual items being banned. in the discussion thread, someone also said "WHAT IF IT'S A POKEMON?!" All of the Pokemon have a wait time to attack, which gives you long enough to get away. Every pokemon in the game can be dodged so far in melee, and it seems to be the case in brawl. Raikou appearing on the stage does NOT matter at all, just move outside the hit box.

Also seconding/thirding/nthing Best or 3.
 
Actually, there are quite a few broken items. I don't like items at all, but kirbykid in that link I posted makes a very compelling argument for items.

Anyway, good riddance on leafgreen386. I have other forums to play on too (and will most likely be running a tournament on one of them), but I'm open to play with some different rulesets considering how many different ways there are to play the game.
 
I suggest that everyone calm the fuck down and if you aren't playing, don't post. Seriously, there's no need to post with a "guess I'm not playing then".

I plan on playing! Woohoo! I've played my N64 SSB to death and still play it in tournaments all the time here at college, but I've pretty much never touched SSBM. Now with SSBB coming out, maybe it's time to join the modern age. Provided I can get a bloody Wii in time.

I definitely agree with zerowing on the items. Everyone bloody scrambles for the pokeball when it drops out of the whatever container when we play in tournaments and much fun is had by all. However, I'd support at least turning some of the more obviously broken items off, like the hammer and heart container and home-run bat. Beyond that, though, it all should be fair game.

Why not just have a few set stages? I think most people have a much better time on a fairly regular stage (like Hyrule, Saffron City, or the Fox stage in SSB) than one of those moronic moving stages in SSBM, even if it does cut down choices.
 
This sounds pretty interesting... I usually play with items off with my friends, but it's fun to mess around with them once in a while.

And yeah guys while there is a lot of luck with items it takes skill to use them too. Although I'm not too into the heart container being allowed, the kirby tomato and food aren't as bad but 100% damage is basically a free life. Just my two cents... although if we can't turn them off, it doesn't really matter does it
 
Surgo said:
I plan on playing! Woohoo! I've played my N64 SSB to death and still play it in tournaments all the time here at college, but I've pretty much never touched SSBM. Now with SSBB coming out, maybe it's time to join the modern age. Provided I can get a bloody Wii in time.

Actually, with the info that I've gotten, it's seaming like SSBB is going to be a lot like SSB in terms of fighting. Before anyone says "no shit", think about it for a second. The original and Melee were quite different.

I definitely agree with zerowing on the items. Everyone bloody scrambles for the pokeball when it drops out of the whatever container when we play in tournaments and much fun is had by all. However, I'd support at least turning some of the more obviously broken items off, like the hammer and heart container and home-run bat. Beyond that, though, it all should be fair game.

Now there's a good compromise.

Why not just have a few set stages? I think most people have a much better time on a fairly regular stage (like Hyrule, Saffron City, or the Fox stage in SSB) than one of those moronic moving stages in SSBM, even if it does cut down choices.

Er...Hyrule was one of the most broken stages out there. Samus players were all but invincible there for obvious reasons. That's why I suggest we play on some of the more tourney legal stages. Not to say that we should only play on the generic flat stage, but things like battlefield and Pit's stage too.
Click to expand...
 
._.

Didn't I say that as long as the broken items were banned that I'd be fine with it? It's only when stuff like heart container is allowed that I won't play. It just isn't fun.

I mean... I probably did overreact a bit there, but I never said "if items are in I'm not."
 
I mean... I probably did overreact a bit there, but I never said "if items are in I'm not."
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It's cool, man. I got rid of all of the posts in question. We're all good.
Er...Hyrule was one of the most broken stages out there. Samus players were all but invincible there for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...
I know (referring to the SSBM Hyrule stage). I was talking about those god damn moving stages of SSBM, not generic neutral stages.

Edited once again to remove all the damn name confusion and clarify some things. I was referring to Hyrule Castle of SSB, not Hyrule Temple of SSBM. Thank you Firestorm.
 
Calciphoce, Surgo meant Hyrule Castle from SSB64, not the broken mess that was Hyrule Temple in SSBM =P

If Dreamland 64 is in, let's make that the only stage. <3 Dreamland 64.

But basically, healing items + Starman + some others are completely broken. Absolutely no drawbacks but huge benefits are had from all of them.
 
I don't really mind the Maxim tomato because of its healing limit and, to be honest, I find everyone rushing to it and fighting over it to be a pretty fun experience that I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of. The heart is kind of ridiculous though.
 
Surgo said:
I don't really mind the Maxim tomato because of its healing limit and, to be honest, I find everyone rushing to it and fighting over it to be a pretty fun experience that I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of. The heart is kind of ridiculous though.
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Heart is 100% in SSBM and I assume SSBB. It isn't all health anymore. Although remember than this is 1v1 so it won't be a four player brawl for an item.

Then again, I don't find the rush for items that fun in the first place. I love that uninterrupted flow of battle that comes from 1v1 without items =D
 
i will definitely play if australia and europe get the game at a reasonable time. im not too optimistic at this point though
 
See we're getting somewhere. While I do admit that items do somewhat take away from the fun in 1vs1, we can try them again in a 2vs2 setting as well. My vision is to make this a monthly or bi-monthly thing, this is just the first of many, don't like the rules this time? Join anyway the rules next month could be totally different. Which yes, it means I want to do tournaments with Stamina, Giant mode, Pokeball match, I want it to be different from the number of ultra serious tournaments going on around the internet. Smogon is Pokemon first, Smash second, many of us will enjoy playing Smash, but it will play second fiddle to Pokemon.

So yes this means there will be 1 on 1, no items, standard SWF tournaments, but then there will be other gimmicky tournaments. I'm posting this tournament idea so early so we can hammer out rules (I knew opposition to items would be high, but remember this isn't the only tournament I hope to have here) and try to get a general consensus as to how we want the first of many to operate, from there we can take ideas for new tournaments.
 
Steelicks said:
i will definitely play if australia and europe get the game at a reasonable time. im not too optimistic at this point though
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Q3 or Q4 2008. Import a Wii and sell your own, it's over =(

We should have a random character tournament where you have to random each round! Or one where you're randomly given 2 - 3 characters to do for the entire tournament. I'm kinda enjoying these more gimmicky Pokemon tournmanets (Draft, Secret Santa).
 
I actually like the idea of having the opponent choose your character for you.

I play it with my friends, and it's quite fun.
 
zerowing said:
My vision is to make this a monthly or bi-monthly thing, this is just the first of many, don't like the rules this time? Join anyway the rules next month could be totally different. Which yes, it means I want to do tournaments with Stamina, Giant mode, Pokeball match, I want it to be different from the number of ultra serious tournaments going on around the internet. Smogon is Pokemon first, Smash second, many of us will enjoy playing Smash, but it will play second fiddle to Pokemon.
Click to expand...

I'm in for all of them. In fact i could help if is needed (really, when the time comes just ask), since is such a cool idea, not only the tournaments but the vision to make them "different".
 
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