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Super Smash Bros 4 (Spoilers ITT)
- Thread starter LonelyNess
- Start date
Sheik is probably Falcon's worst matchup and the character you'll see most often to boot. You're playing a punish character against someone with several unpunishable options.
Sheik doesn't have any hard counters but here's what helps your character not get trashed:
-Not getting Fair chained across the stage(floatiness, low weight, small hurtboxes, combo breakers)
-Having a safe recovery
-Anti-camping/neutral game tools (safe moves on shield, projectiles that cover options like Fireball)
-Combos on Sheik
Meta Knight and Mario are viable, easy to switch over characters with decent matchups against Sheik. Jiggs, Pika, and Yoshi also do fairly well. I don't think Doc would fare as well as Mario because of his poor recovery and stage control, and his slow aerials.
Sheik doesn't have any hard counters but here's what helps your character not get trashed:
-Not getting Fair chained across the stage(floatiness, low weight, small hurtboxes, combo breakers)
-Having a safe recovery
-Anti-camping/neutral game tools (safe moves on shield, projectiles that cover options like Fireball)
-Combos on Sheik
Meta Knight and Mario are viable, easy to switch over characters with decent matchups against Sheik. Jiggs, Pika, and Yoshi also do fairly well. I don't think Doc would fare as well as Mario because of his poor recovery and stage control, and his slow aerials.
I really wouldn't call MK an easy to pick up character at all, unless you have a lot of technical skill already it takes a lot of effort to get good at using up air combos (which are what make him so good). I'm not the greatest player ever but I've been basically solo maining MK since July and still drop up air combos way more than I should. On top of this, his unconventional (not bad!) neutral makes him pretty hard to get used to playing in general. He's really, really fun once you get good with him but unless you're already really good at the game he's pretty hard to learn to play well with.
also he loses to sheik but only like 55-45 so "decent" is fair
also he loses to sheik but only like 55-45 so "decent" is fair
People have a misconception that Mario beats Sheik but in reality he doesn't. Sheik should just never take Mario to BF or DL (where Mario becomes A LOT better) and it's easily in her favour. Mario can't outrange fair and can't camp sheik out. It's the same case with Luigi which is also bad against Sheik, except Mario doesn't get edgeguarded as badly so the matchup isn't as bad but it's still not good for him. If Sheik Luigi is 65:35 then Sheik Mario is 60:40 on any stage besides DL and BF.
Jiggs loses lol, ftilt > uair kills at like 90%
Pika and Yoshi have alright matches imo, either 55:45 or 50:50. MK also has a pretty good mu against sheik.
I'd say the only real even MUs for Sheik or ones that could actually not be in her favour are Kirby (especially if he gets needles), Lucario, MK, Sonic, and probably Greninja. Former two imo are 55:45 for their favour and the rest are 50:50.
I'd say your list of what makes a character not do terrible against Sheik is good tho.
how many times do i have to tell you mk sheik is not 50:50,,,,,,,,,,,
I don't know much about MK vs Sheik, but what I can say is that MK can 0 to death Sheik with a set-up. I remember Abadango used it against San in BH5 (or was it MLG? I forget) but it works on Sheik as well, not just Ike.
MK can 0-death quite a few characters and he can kill all characters bar Greninja really early, so this doesn't really make MK better against Sheik than he is against any other character. The main reason it's slightly in Sheik's favor (and basically any good MK player agrees that this is the case) is that Sheik wins neutral pretty hard in that matchup.
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All of the high level Greninja's I've talked to think Greninja loses horribly to Sheik and does good or beats every other top tier, but I'm of the opinion that there's nothing that specifically makes it horrible (like how Fox dies the instant he's knocked off stage and take 30% in one string). The thing that makes it bad for him is that he doesn't have an OOS option and an even higher fastfall speed than Sheik, so he's ultra combo food if he can't Shadow Sneak out (I don't think he can in the Sheik matchup).
Mega post, am avoiding homework, assume things are unordered within each category.
45-55 ---- 50-50
This reflects my experience in chicagoland majors and watching national/regional events online.
IMO Kirby's only even in customs on, and Lucario can't consistently preform against her. He can't approach at all if Sheik tries to time out.
MK is amazing because of how his multiple jumps let him do better against Sheik's needles than pretty much every other character.
45-55
Peach: Can float over needles in neutral and cover the 2 frame ledge vulnerability. Doesn't really have anything horrible against her, just not anything amazing either.
Pikachu is similar to Sheik in a lot of ways, but the big difference is that they both have similar rewards in risk/reward but Pikachu takes WAY more risks to get the same reward (strings, throw 50/50's, anti-edgeguarding).
ZSS is the anti Sheik. significantly more risk relative to Sheik, but WAY more reward.
Pit: Multiple jumps are great for jumping needles and anti-edgeguarding. Has great disjoints to stuff misplaced approaches, combos Sheik really well, Usmash is an amazing anti air.
I'm going to throw Pacman into the ring. When hydrant is put down, no single one of Sheik's moves can break the hydrant, and a hydrant next to a trampoline creates a lot of space for Pacman to set things up. He also gets a frame 3 nair and a frame 1 up b to combo break and is nearly impossible to edgeguard. The game is going to go to the time limit if either player decides they want to, but that's the nature of the characters.
Ryu has similar advantages to ZSS. Setup --> true Shoryuken is an incredible comeback tool.
Villager has one of the best combo breakers in the game, the best recovery, and Lloyd blocks Needles. If Sheik gets the lead it is hard for Villager to catch up.
45-55 ---- 40-60
Diddy Kong: Banana is amazing and fair is an excellent stuffing tool. Gets edge-guarded bad.
Sonic: I haven't seen a high level Sonic vs Sheik match since 1.1.2, but I'd wager it's somewhere in here. Needles aren't fun.
40-60
Mario's good because of his fast air speed and his combo breakers. Gets edge-guarded.
Rosa does okay because of how powerful her moves are and how you can get spur the moment kills.
Yoshi: Great combo-breaker and air speed. Needles suck.
Mario's good because he has incredibly good air speed and a bunch of combo breakers.
Ness has great priority on his aerials and the best killthrow in the game. Suffers from being easily edgeguarded, but if Sheik messes up she dies.
Wario: If you take stock 1 and get a Waft you win, if you don't you don't. Ultra high pressure, imo Wario and Ryu are better comeback characters to use against Sheik than Lucario.
G&W: Can well with Sheik's fall speed, can duck needles (WAY LESS useful than people give it credit), invincible jump pivot up smash, super armor on up b makes for safe recoveries. Cannot approach at all.
Other top/high tier characters
Luigi: Combo breaker and grab strings are beaten by the fact that he can literally go a set and not get a single grab. Gets spaced out.
Fox: Goes offstage the instant he gets grabbed. Dies the instant he goes off stage.
Captain Falcon: Combo food. Easily edgeguarded. Can't edgeguard her back.
ROB: Combo food.
DK: Can kill in three grabs, can't get three grabs.
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Any thoughts on Falcon's other poor matchups then? SWF's Falcon boards are quite incomplete. :/ I'd wager Mario, Pika, and Villy also give Falcon a really hard time since they can force risky approaches and wreck him hard on shieldgrab + offstage... Though I'm also not a good Falcon and it really depends on what he can do off a grab, especially against Villager probably?
What I do is that I try to space the opponent away with Elthunder and sometimes Arcthunder while I wait for it to come back. Plus, if you grab the used tome, you can throw it for decent knockback to keep him back for a bit or maybe even KOing them.
Not exactly a Falcon expert here but from minor experience playing Falcon and watching a lot of players use him and in theory I can say his bad matchups out of all the viable/high tier characters are Sheik, Pikachu, (maybe ZSS), Mario, Ryu, Diddy, Luigi, and maybe Yoshi?
But honestly they're all not terrible outside of Sheik and Pikachu, so yeah.
Along with what the other guy said, you also have SH fair, which, when used with Levin Sword, is super strong and can be hard to get around. If they see you're out of Arc Fire they'll be more likely to shield expecting fair so try for some grabs then. I know it's laggy but you get stuff off of dthrow which is awesome n_n
Also remember its important to make the most out of your arc fires - do not spam them and place them carefully. They can lead into a lot of damage so it's important not to waste them!
To expect... Expect to lose. Take it as a learning experience when you're vsing others, and try to point out what you could have done better in a specific situation - it's great if your opponent can give you insight into what he or she saw as well. Consider playing friendlies before your matches, as it's also useful in the above scenario, gets stress off, and helps you to meet new people. This is the best kind of practice you can get apart from labbing, and it will substantially improve your game if you plan to attend future tournaments.
For the most part, people are approachable. Don't be the person that constantly flaunts his skill or wins, and if you're prone to getting salty, try minimizing it. Following this, getting to know people through friendlies if you can, and keeping track of your matches should make the experience smooth. Best of luck!
For the most part, people are approachable. Don't be the person that constantly flaunts his skill or wins, and if you're prone to getting salty, try minimizing it. Following this, getting to know people through friendlies if you can, and keeping track of your matches should make the experience smooth. Best of luck!
tl;dr: the worst thing you can do is show up, lose in winner's, lose in loser's, and leave without introducing yourself to anyone. There's more intricate things like how to get the most out of friendlies (don't get discouraged and ask what you could do better). Also tourney nerves are super real and you're probably just gonna have to deal with it for a while.
Get to know some people there and know your local scene, join their facebook group (I 100% guarantee you they have one, unless for whatever reason they dont LOL in which case I advise you to advise them to make one), and just keep going to as many tournaments as you can.
In my personal experience you should never be afraid to ask people to play you, or if you see two people hogging a setup and/or have played on it for a while, ask them if you could play (no one will ever say no lmao), at my first few tournaments I was always super shy to ask people (and therefore never got to play outside of bracket matches) but then realized that everyone else does it, it's fine, no one will hate you for it, and if you're new people probably wanna play you anyway. Now whenever I go to a tournament if there isn't a free setup I'll ask anyone if I could get in and play or whatever.
In my personal experience you should never be afraid to ask people to play you, or if you see two people hogging a setup and/or have played on it for a while, ask them if you could play (no one will ever say no lmao), at my first few tournaments I was always super shy to ask people (and therefore never got to play outside of bracket matches) but then realized that everyone else does it, it's fine, no one will hate you for it, and if you're new people probably wanna play you anyway. Now whenever I go to a tournament if there isn't a free setup I'll ask anyone if I could get in and play or whatever.
Man, thanks guys for all the advice. The one thing I really didn't know is how important friendlies are. They seem to be a big part of tournements for both practice and getting to know people. Anyways I am definately not expecting to win, that's sounds insane, I am totally expecting to get wrecked, but I am hoping that I get lucky and play esam in bracket. I am super excited, the only thing I am worried about is doing something that would annoy everyone but besides that I am super excited.
You're not expected to bring a setup, no. They should have them at the tournament already.
Also depend on the size of the tournament. Most locals need consoles to work out.
I try to also bring my monitor, when I can. Reason being I hate to play on laggy setups, and I know mine is good.
Major tournaments might have something planned out that mean they need less community support. Far from always, though. Bringing a setup never hurt.
I try to also bring my monitor, when I can. Reason being I hate to play on laggy setups, and I know mine is good.
Major tournaments might have something planned out that mean they need less community support. Far from always, though. Bringing a setup never hurt.
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