ORAS OU Suspect Test: The New Frog

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
With Greninja not being allowed untill the suspect test ends (and probably also after the test) the beloved ninja frog is gone. Luckily, the world of Pokémon is big and Greninja was not our only frog. This team was build around the second best frog in the world (no it's not a Politoed rain team)


I started the team with Toxicroak. I was inspired by the frog after I saw a post in the viability rankings about it. It is a amazing pokemon thanks to its typing + water immunity making him able to take on threats like Bisharp, Keldeo and Azumarill.

I know Mega Metagross will become more popular with Greninja not on the suspect ladder, so I decided to pick Victini as my second pokemon. Not only does Scarf Victini handles non-agility Mega Metagross very well, it also helps with Toxicroak's weakness to fire (dry skin) and psychic, while the water, rock and dark weakness of Victini will be taken care of with Toxicroak.

Since this is an OU team, it is mandatory to run Landorus-Therian. Landorus-Therian helps my team with the weakness to ground and helps with my only hazards control on the team. It also helps me with speed control (I come back at this point later in the RMT) and stops things like Talonflame, Agility Mega Metagross and Excadrill.

My team lacked a beautiful pokemon so I added Gardevoir. Gardevoir is my answer to stall teams and also gives my team switchins to Rotom-Wash, Latios and Heatran.

Looking at my team I found it already pretty solid but I won't be winning many games with only 4 pokémon so I added another genie becuase genie spam is good. Tornadus-Therian gives my team some more special bulk while also having utility as a third u-turner, knock off user and hurricane spammer

Looking at my team I was shocked I didn't have a Keldeo or Bisharp yet, so I added Keldeo because I already abuse Bisharp way to often. Keldeo is there just for punching holes at everything except Celebi and Latias. My team didn't really like Bisharp and Azumarill if Toxicroak would be gone and Keldeo checks both pretty well.

Isn't he beautiful?


Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch

Toxicroak is very anti-meta at the moment. Two of the most common pokemon, Keldeo and Bisharp, can't hit this pokemon for neutral effective damage outside of Icy Wind on Keldeo (edit: I derped. Iron Head does neutral damage on bisharp, but frog outspeeds Bisharp) . It is a solid switch in for all fairies that aren't mega (Sylveon, Clefable and Azumarill) and it turns defensive pokemon like Alomomola and Chansey into setup fodder. It is my first answer to Mega Metagross, as a sucker punch at +2 KOs it after a little prior damage. The problem I have with Toxicroak while battleing is that it is very frail and it can't even switch in on Sylveon and Clefable without taking 50-70% and add the fact it lacks recovery outside Dry Skin this pokemon is actually pretty difficult to use. But you know, the other frog that is suspected at the moment also couldn't switch in and still it wrecked anything with it's Dark, Poison or Fighting STABs.


Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Glaciate

Scarf Victini is an awesome pokemon. Thanks to its typing it can switch in on many things like Mega Metagross, Clefable and Gardevoir. Victini helps Toxicroak with giving it free switches with U-Turn and 3 out of 5 weaknesses of Victini (rock, water and dark) are dealt with by Toxicroak. V-Create and Bolt Strike are obvious option for any Victini (except Lure Victini) and U-Turn is also no surprise. Glaciate is an amazing lure for Landorus-Therian, Latias and Garchomp. It's not the best option for Victini, but the speed drop helps me a lot and it can catch scarf landorus-therian on surprise.


Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Scarf Landorus-Therian is boring so I decided to use a different set. I always wanted to try out a fully defensive set with Rock Tomb so here it is. Landorus-Therian helps me with the ground weakness the other 2 teammates have and also helps with sand offense, talonflame and oppossing Landorus-T. I have used Rocky Helmet in the first draft of the team but the lack of recovery is even more terrible than losing Eviolite on Chansey. Stealth Rock is my only hazards control (defoggers suck atm because Lati@s get trapped by Bisharp and Mew against stall is worse than Carnivine, so I don't use defoggers on this team) and U-Turn helps me getting momentum. A slow u-turn against other landorus-t's are very useful too. 8 speed EVs are to outspeed Rotom-W, it's not very important but hitting the rotom-w before it burns me can be crucial.


Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Modest Mega Gardevoir hits like a Timid Mega Gardevoir on drugs. I don't really care about the speed drop because I can't remember what important threats I do not outspeed except Jolly Excadrill and a scarf Landorus-T which scarf is knocked off (so basically max speed jolly landorus-t) which are both already killed by my own Lando. Gardevoir is one of the few usable stallbreakers left because Mega Sableye wouldn't try to bounce the Taunt if it is threatened by a Hyper Voice. Gardevoir can Trace many useful abilities like Flash Fire (against Heatran) Regenerator, Magic Bounce and Speed Boost (gg) Gardevoir is my switch in for Heatran, Rotom-Wash and Latios and because I don't have Bisharp it's nice to still have an answer to the Lati Twins.


Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast

Tornadus-Therian is here for.... I don't really know. Tornadus-Therian is an amazing pokemon that does its work every game. It knocks off items, it hurricane and confuse haxes some annoying walls and gives momentum for the frog. Tornadus-Therian was very viable for my team in basically every game. I chose Assault Vest over Life Orb + Taunt because it gives me some more special bulk (especially for Gengar, which would otherwise kill my team) The EV spread is from the analysis because I was too lazy to make a custom one, but it works pretty well (outspeeding scarftar and everything under 116 base speed)


Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Keldeo was my last choice of the team. I was looking for something that resists rock and could punch holes in the oppossing team. This set gives Lati@s and Celebi a free switch in because it lacks Icy Wind, but I don't really care. Hidden Power Electric lures in Azumarill and the only thing it can do is switch to something that resist electric or hit me with a powerful aqua jet (20.1 - 23.8% with Band)

Threats to the Team:
S Rank
*Greninja: Team was made for the suspect ladder and Greninja is banned there. Otherwise, it would 6-0 my team but I honestly don't give a dan
*Landorus-T: I have one too! And mine kills your scarf landorus-t! No threat to my team
*Latios: Gardevoir Mega can live 2 LO Psyshocks from Latios if I give it some more defense investment so I should probably to that. If it goes for Draco Meteor on something, Tornadus-T can take a -2 Draco Meteor and pivot out with u-turn and get all the health back with Regenerator
*Metagross-Mega: Sucker Punch from frog does a lot, scarftini can switch in on many moves, agility sets are taken care of by landorus-t
*Thundurus: I have to admit I pretty much lose to this guy instantly

A+ Rank
*Altaria-Mega: Landorus-T can live 2 Return's at +1 and 2HKO back with Earthquake. It can't switch in on anything bar Keldeo so with enough offensive pressure I can beat it
*Azumarill: I can threaten it with many pokemon, but don't have many switchins if I'm locked in a V-Create or Hydro Pump
*Bisharp: easy 2
*Charizard-Mega-X: A Flare Blitz at +1 hurts, but Landorus-T can beat it 1v1
*Clefable: Toxicroak OHKOs with Gunk Shot and Tornadus-T also doesn't care much about the damage
*Gallade Mega: Tornadus-T must hope it doesn't miss Hurricane (it always misses on the wrong times)
*Gardevoir Mega: Victini
*Gengar: Tornadus-T
*Gyarados-Mega: Toxicroak beats it
*Heatran: no problem
*Keldeo: Toxicroak can switch in but it's shaky because Icy Wind hurts. Tornadus-T counters
*Landorus: Didn't face any in my matches, but I guess Tornadus-T can beat it.
*Latias: Same way as Latios but easier
*Lopunny Mega: 5 pokemon resist fighting so many pokemon can check. Landorus-T is a full counter if it lacks Ice Punch
*Sableye Mega: Gardevoir
*Mega Scizor: Keldeo can take any hit and do big damage with Specs Hydro Pump or burn it with scald. Landorus-T also takes hits very well
*Talonflame: Landorus-T needs to stay healthy, but at full health it counters it

A Rank
*Mega Charizard Y: Non-Earthquake Zard Y is beaten by Victini
*Diancie Mega: This thing has counters? Tornadus-T checks.
*Excadrill: Landorus-T
*Ferrothorn: Never had problems with it although it can be annoying af
*Garchomp: Only faced 1, no real threat in my opinion
*Mega Manectric: This thing is very annoying, don't really have good answers for it
*Mega Pinsir: Victini revenge kills, Landorus-T takes it on pretty well
*Rotom-W: I don't really care about this thing
*Slowbro (Mega): The 240 SpD Calm sets are annoying. Mega Gardevoir can beat it
*Venusaur Mega: Mega Gardevoir, Tornadus-Therian

A- Rank
*Aerodactyl-Mega: Ice Fang is annoying because the coverage is very threatening. I can revenge kill it without many problems
*Celebi: Tornadus-T, Victini, Toxicroak: Just hope they don't miss
*Diggersby: Landorus-T can beat it, but still a huge threat
*Gliscor: Keldeo, Victini, Gardevoir all threaten it. Don't want to take a toxic however Gardevoir can abuse Poison Heal pre-mega
*Heracross-Mega: Too slow to really threaten my team
*Hippowdon: SpD is very annoying but Keldeo beats it
*Jirachi: No real problems beating it, but I hate it when paired with Mega Sableye
*Magnezone: Again, A fast electric type really enjoys my team
*Mamoswine: The coverage is definitely annoying but I can beat it without many problems
*Manaphy: At this point I realise I have no grass and electric moves. Doesn't really matter because Toxicroak takes on the Rest and Energy Ball sets and I can revenge kill it
*Sceptile Mega: Gardevoir and Tornadus-T both threaten it out
*Terrakion: Landorus-T
*Tyranitar: Gardevoir and Landorus-T both beat it depending on the set.

TL;DR: Fast Electric types (Scarf Magnezone, Raikou, Thundurus, Mega Manectric) are the biggest threats


Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Glaciate

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Electric]


Toxicroak: You can give him Adamant but Jolly is good for Jolly Mamoswine and such
Victini: Glaciate isn't the best move so Trick, Final Gambit or Zen Headbutt are all possible moves
Landorus-Therian: You can be boring and make him scarf or you can try out Stone Edge to guarantee the KO on Pinsir. Knock Off over U-Turn is something I don't suggest but you may try it out
Keldeo: Icy Wind or HP Bug over HP Electric are both nice to catch Celebi and Lati@s


I will take a look at every suggestion you give me. Feel free to change moves, items, spreads or complete pokémon but don't change the half of the team.
 
Last edited:

Adamant Zoroark

catchy catchphrase
is a Contributor Alumnus
Like the team - the use of Toxicroak is especially cool. But yeah, Thundurus has to be a pain in the ass. Scarfing your Landorus-T would be the easiest fix, but that'd mean you have no Stealth Rock so that's not ideal. Maybe an Assault Vest user other than Tornadus-T would help, since having one that's weak to Electric isn't helping against these fast Electrics. Maybe Assault Vest Conkeldurr? It can take a few hits from pretty much all of the fast Electrics that threaten your team - Scarf Magnezone gets taken down by Drain Punch, while you have Ice Punch for Thundurus. you lose a U-turn user, though, but I think that's a small price to pay to be able to at least have a chance against the aforementioned fast Electrics, so I think it'd be worth it.

As for other changes -

Definitely put the 24 Defense EVs on Gardevoir - living two Psyshocks from Latios is pretty important.

If you're going to run anything over HP Electric on Keldeo, I'd say HP Bug - You seem to at least need something that hits Mega Slowbro super effectively since there's not a whole lot you can do to it otherwise, while having a nice move to catch Celebi with would be nice.

Again, like the team - hope it gets you far! Rate for rate?

Sets:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts / Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Drain Punch
-Mach Punch
-Knock Off
-Ice Punch
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
Like the team - the use of Toxicroak is especially cool. But yeah, Thundurus has to be a pain in the ass. Scarfing your Landorus-T would be the easiest fix, but that'd mean you have no Stealth Rock so that's not ideal. Maybe an Assault Vest user other than Tornadus-T would help, since having one that's weak to Electric isn't helping against these fast Electrics. Maybe Assault Vest Conkeldurr? It can take a few hits from pretty much all of the fast Electrics that threaten your team - Scarf Magnezone gets taken down by Drain Punch, while you have Ice Punch for Thundurus. you lose a U-turn user, though, but I think that's a small price to pay to be able to at least have a chance against the aforementioned fast Electrics, so I think it'd be worth it.

As for other changes -

Definitely put the 24 Defense EVs on Gardevoir - living two Psyshocks from Latios is pretty important.

If you're going to run anything over HP Electric on Keldeo, I'd say HP Bug - You seem to at least need something that hits Mega Slowbro super effectively since there's not a whole lot you can do to it otherwise, while having a nice move to catch Celebi with would be nice.

Again, like the team - hope it gets you far! Rate for rate?

Sets:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts / Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Drain Punch
-Mach Punch
-Knock Off
-Ice Punch
Thanks for your rate. Conk pretty much threatens the same things Torn does (M-Sceptile, Gengar) Fast electrics are not as threatening as before but MDiancie is a bigger threat now. I will try it out later
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
I tried out Conkeldurr for a while and while the electric types are less of an issue, a third fighting type makes my team very weak to both psychic and flying and both gave me issues. I am really enjoying Tornadus-T and Gardevoir and Landorus-T and Toxicroak to a lesser extent. Victini didn't really work out well for me and I am currently looking for any replacements for him. So if anyone has any suggestions to replace either Victini or Keldeo to make my electric weakness not such a big issue I'd appreciate that.
Also changed some little things like 0 Atk IVs on Keldeo and Mega Gardevoir and 24 Def on Mega Gardevoir. Currently also trying out how icy wind on Keldeo works in this team
 
Would AV Raikou work? It handles Thundurus-I, other Electric types, and pretty much everything else Torn-T can check. You lose out on Regen + Knock Off, but retain momentum. Something like this might help:

Raikou @ Assault Vest
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Extrasensory / Shadow Ball

There's obviously trade-offs over Torn-T, but it might be worth it to handle Electrics. It also handles Gengar, which you mentioned was something Torn-T handled as well.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
Would AV Raikou work? It handles Thundurus-I, other Electric types, and pretty much everything else Torn-T can check. You lose out on Regen + Knock Off, but retain momentum. Something like this might help:

Raikou @ Assault Vest
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Extrasensory / Shadow Ball

There's obviously trade-offs over Torn-T, but it might be worth it to handle Electrics. It also handles Gengar, which you mentioned was something Torn-T handled as well.
Looks like a solid replacement. It leaves my team weak to ground (especially Lando-I gets annoying) but I will try to find a problem for that. Thanks for your suggestion
 
Toxicroak is one of my favourite Pokemon, I used it on a rain team with the same set as your’s and he made the work a lot of time ! I’m not good enough too help to improve you’re team but I will follow this topic to get some infos for the Frog ! ;)
 
Your team has no way to remove hazards, which could be a huge problem.

Maybe a spDef Zapdos over Raikou to make you have a specially defensive wall and offer Defog support? It also lessens your Ground weakness.
Also, you'll be able to hit Ferrothorn with Heat Wave.
Something like this:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 176 SpD / 20 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog

This way, you are completely able to stop Mega Pinsir, and check Landorus-I and Thundurus.

Hope this helped!
 
Once again, I know you like Rock Tomb on Landorus-T :P But even though it is defensive, I'd rather recommend Stone Edge; unliek Rock Tomb, it is capable of 2HKOing Dragonite and for just overall superior power against mons such as balloon Tran.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
Thanks for your rates. I will try everything out you suggested and post in a few days in what way my team works best
 
Toxicroak is really good in OU at the moment! I'm noticing it work its way onto a handful of teams. I've been tweaking a rain team and I just recently swapped our Breloom for Toxicroak and I haven't regretted it yet!

If you incorporate AV Raikou onto the team disregard this, but if not you could consider Knock Off on your utility Landorus. U-Turn is nice, but Knock Off has a lot of great utility especially on Landorus.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
So after some testing I decided to make some changes

Toxicroak
No changes. It has the find the perfect opportunity to set up a SD, but once it set up, it can slice through some teams. Especially staying in on Lando-T predicting the U-Turn is a wonderful thing

Tornadus-Therian
I changed this to an AV Raikou as proposed by Celticpride. AV Raikou still leaves my team with special bulk and making the electric weakness a less big issue.

Mega Gardevoir
I changed Taunt to Calm Mind / Shadow Ball. Taunt didn't work out very well. After one calm mind gardevoir can kill slower teams and with Shadow ball you have the right coverage for Victini and Jirachi

Victini
After I changed Tornadus-T for Raikou I discovered new weaknesses including a big ground weakness which really bothered me. I decided to try out Weavile over Victini so I still have the speed control and having an easier time dealing with Lati@s. I'm still thinking of this slot but at this point I think Weavile does great work.

Landorus-Therian
Gave it Stone Edge over Rock Tomb.

Keldeo
I kept HP Electric as with Weavile it is a slightly bigger problem and Keldeo lures in Azumarill which is awesome.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Calm Mind / Shadow Ball

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit / Icicle Crash

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball
 
Once again, I know you like Rock Tomb on Landorus-T :P But even though it is defensive, I'd rather recommend Stone Edge; unliek Rock Tomb, it is capable of 2HKOing Dragonite and for just overall superior power against mons such as balloon Tran.
actually, stone edge only 2HKOes the offensive variants of dragonite, the bulky spreads can take them with the correct defense (assuming no prior damage) and roost stall for a miss. my own in particular takes about 55-60% without multiscale, from jolly landorus t, a landorus-t with a defensive spread and neither a boosting nature nor atk EVs, i doubt it will even get reliably 3HKOed with leftovers in mind (well, assuming no hax). rock tomb cripples him not only by damage but also by trolling his attempts to DDance on it, and that's all overlooking the tendency of stone edge to miss at the worst times
 
actually, stone edge only 2HKOes the offensive variants of dragonite, the bulky spreads can take them with the correct defense (assuming no prior damage) and roost stall for a miss. my own in particular takes about 55-60% without multiscale, from jolly landorus t, a landorus-t with a defensive spread and neither a boosting nature nor atk EVs, i doubt it will even get reliably 3HKOed with leftovers in mind (well, assuming no hax). rock tomb cripples him not only by damage but also by trolling his attempts to DDance on it, and that's all overlooking the tendency of stone edge to miss at the worst times
beh, w/e. Stone Edge is just a superior option for the power. Rock Tomb exchanges a nice Speed 'boost' for Attack power which is not appreciated in landorus-t's situation.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top