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Suspect SV AAA Suspect #5: Haunted (Zoroark-H and Gengar)

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Gonna vote Ban on both.

:zoroark-hisui:Clearly the most annoying between the 2 at the time we're talking. MGLO is particularly good at making progress with extremely limited counterplay long run outside from highly unviable things like Purifying Salt Clodsire lol. The combination of Knock Off, U-Turn and WoW is just so great paired with Hex to abuse the broken offensive type. I think this is the best and most consistent set. Generally not autowinning because you need to spread status first and cripple things but it's really hard to deal with tbh, even offensively with the speed tier.
BoR / SFLO are completely different in the sense they're "just" raw breaking power. BoR does some crazy damage with the Ghost + Fighting combination. Flamethrower can easily get rid of Bulletproof mons (that mainly exist because Ghosts are broken btw). U-Turn is perfect to just grab the momentum if you don't want to rely on some 50/50. Trick is also a way to get rid of a setup sweeper or just make something like Blissey or Clodsire almost useless for the rest of the game. Body Slam with SFLO works to 2HKO (or very close) mons like Blissey, Florges, Roaring Moon or Clodsire depending on their spread but is always a great option to pressure them anw. Nasty Plot allows to break though almost anything but you have to get it up.
Mention to gimmick sets like Flare Boost, Guts or Protean.

This mon is just a headache in the builder because you need some really specific counterplay that can eventually fall from a set to another. It's also surprisingly not that hard to enter considering Corviknight is an open door (same goes for Gengar btw).

:gengar:For this one, things have been more mitigated. Gengar is mainly a breaker against which you play the Russian roulette unless you brought the counter mentionned above aka Purifying Salt Clod or Bulletproof. Specs BoR OHKO fast RegenVest Roaring Moon with Dazzling Gleam. Focus Blast or Energy Ball take care of Garganacl but tbh you could almost just spam Shadow Ball because it does 40 (under sand). Ting-Lu gets the same treatment (I don't like AV one but it's prob one of the most efficient check considering Gengar requires to hit 2 Focus Blast). SpD Tinkaton is able to take 2 Shadow Ball from SFLO but not from Specs BoR. Even being not a great coverage, Sludge Bomb can be extremely annoying due to Poison secondary effect (BoR one). Also gets Trick and some annoying status moves like Toxic and WoW. Destiny Bond is also a funny way to force a trade. lmao people also running Ice Punch SFLO to secure the 2HKO on Garchomp.
Mention to Mean Look Skill Swap Normalize that we didn't see a lot but that could easily get rid of AV Garchomp/Ting-Lu or Bulletproof mon.
Overall this mon stays a bit in H-Zoro's shadow, more versatile and consistent. Less broken but more unhealthy.


I think H-Zoro is broken and Gengar, that's debatable at the moment. However, banning H-Zoro will necesarily make Gengar better and more unhealthy. Mainly because it will be the only broken Ghost remaining but also because it's going to be more harder to justify using mon or ability that are already almost unviable like Bulletproof or Purifying Salt.
Overall, both the defensive and offensive counterplay to these mons feels too limited. Banning them will alleviate some unhealthy constraint in the builder for almost no negative counterpart (we have many breakers remaining but balanced by their speed, defensive utility and/or coverage).
 
Confirming as AAAH Last Chance Kitchen (which didn't fit so I had to abbreviate to LC Kitchen). Used a lightly-modified version of Natcrozma's HO, Fluffy Moon is a problem.
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I can understand voting ban on both or voting do not ban on both, but please do not split votes. At the end of the day their problematic sets are very similar, and even if Zoroark-H gets banned, we will see Gengar filling a very similar role.

I currently plan to vote ban on both due to the pressure they put on defensive cores, especially for balance teams, but cannot stress enough please do not split your vote.
 
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hate to admit it but Osake your team kinda good :pirate:
anyways gonna vote ban for zoro, think people have mentioned it enough times but its versatility and sheer power (see what i did there?) make it a bit too much for the tier to handle. had to essentially walk on eggshells for the most part, whether it was keeping things out of range of shadow ball or simply predicting the coverage move.
edit: after reading a bit more and discussing with some friends, I agree with the sentiment that we arent going to have much of a difference if we just deal with one of them, so get em both outta here. gonna vote ban on gengar too.
looking forward to ompl :woo:
 
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Going to vote ban for both. Gengar and H-Zoroark are both just too much to handle. Gengar is just too versatile and if you do not randomly predict his set you may just insta-lose the game. As far as Zoro goes, well he is just too much. Triple immunity with more power than he knows what to do with. PS if you split your vote and only ban Zoro, Gengar will take his place and then some.
 
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Mirroring Siamato's alt :)

:chien-pao: :garchomp: :meowscarada: :corviknight: :iron-moth: :sylveon:
^ Made this double dark BO team (ft. Dragon Breath Chomper!) for the beginning for sorta quick battles, then for the end switched to the Eli stall team with Intimidate over Flame Body on Corv bc that shit never burns when you need it to. My losses were to Atha and Tranq,,,

Read Siamato's post since it's honestly the truth: banning both ghosts is the play here, not just H-Zoro. Then we can have an excuse to bully the council to suspect Iron Moth ;)
 
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Did my first 10 or so games with this https://pokepast.es/c3f06ce98d97b5aa team from Michael213 which either wins with big bertha immediately or the opponent has unaware and you prob lose
When I was done matchup fishing I played the cat cat meow team from Tranquility, thanks for posting your team it was fun and I think the team gave me potential to outplay in most matchups (even tho I chose to lose 4 times)
Shoutout to the sick fucks running corrosion pex or garg stall accounting for like all my losses. I fled OU cause the salt had me salty but I couldn't escape garg's greasy grabbers
Did anyone else think when we banned dnite people would play corv less? Pranked. Looking forward to home dropping. Also im voting ban on both those spooky guys
 
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Team used: :slowking::kingambit::slither wing::iron moth::corviknight::blissey:
Changed Iron Moth to Lightning Rod after losing twice to VoltTurn, but overall it's still sketchy against Sandy Shocks, Rotom-W and to some extent Ceruledge. Team can be better (by replacing Iron Moth most likely but I didn't want to go chomper here again) but I speed built this in like 5 mins and didn't care enough to refine. The idea is Slowking's Future Sight helps Kingambit and Slither Wing break, which I feel is not used in AAA much.
Only really faced Gengar without any Zoroark-H. However based on my previous experiences with both mons I plan to vote BAN on Zoroark-H and DNB on Gengar. Zoroark-H is similar to Blacephalon in gen 8, however its access to U-turn pushes it over the edge for me (also the lack of 2AC) meaning it forces progress AND keeps momentum every game, on top of its ability to go mixed and better defensive utility. Gengar doesn't quite compare to Zoroark-H, with more power but not as much utility (Though the random Normalize set can just instawin sometimes by trapping a key mon).
 
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