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Suspect SV AAA Suspect #6: Ursaluna
- Thread starter Isaiah
- Start date
- Status
the table moment
not sure what i'll vote. on one hand bd sets are cheese buttons that are effective if your opponent lacks a hard answer and the mon has a ton of versatility outside of that which makes it hard to consistently beat, but on the other hand it provides a lot of positive value to the tier otherwise between its different offensive sets, i haven't really found luna's answers that difficult to fit on teams, and there is a genuine opprotunity cost for using luna on non-ho teams since building is much less centralized and the offensive threats are more adept at pressuring luna. bit dissapointed that debate has revolved around its bd sets when luna has a ton of other options that people really haven't explored yet like mold breaker, sd triage, 3 atks + taunt, and sd fluffy, but not surprisingly considering bd sets are so polarizing. also glad to see a bd ban is off the table, i get the appeal but i've thought it was a stupid idea since it was mentioned.
After findung out it was TNM I am not sorry :p
I think it is clear now, that a Belly Drum ban is not happening. UT did summarize here why the policy is how it is.
At first I was the same opinion as the majority here, that Belly Drum is the problem. But after playing myself with Belly Drum Chestnaught and Slowbro I can say that these mons suck and it's a combination of the mon itself + Belly Drum. Harriyama, Iron Hands and Ursaluna are the best BD abuseres with good bulk, stab Drain Punch or just a good typing. Maybe that's why they are banned ? :o
And for that reason I will be leaning towards ban
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Extremely good but not broken imo - DNB.
Used https://pokepast.es/2daba1b09da08bfb
Used https://pokepast.es/2daba1b09da08bfb
Attachments
Confirming as AAAU Star Rail (which is a good game you guys should play). Used Isaiah's boring team which was pretty effective but had to play at a really slow pace which was tough at times.
I agree with the points from Career Ended and Siamato, Ursaluna does have more versatility than just triage drum that are great such as surge surfer (which was one of my losses) and can beat some of its supposed "checks" such as Scream Tail. In most cases, sure, it can be all or nothing but its ability to win very easily in the cases of it being "all in" is very uncompetitive in my view. Will be voting BAN.
I got reqs lol
So I checked sample teams and it seemed screens were op in this meta, so I prepped by bringing brick break quavo and a triage mon
First time I encountered Ursa I got 6-0d anyway :(
I didn't find many more options than running Psychic terrain and sacking mons since nothing actually kills Ursa, at least I've not gotten swept by it again but despite not getting caught by surprise by it I'm still not convinced it's not op. Especially now that psychic terrain doesn't have as good abusers as before, and the options for ghost types are lacking (or mostly banned) I guess Gengar can switch in and Encore but I've found options besides that to be quite limited
Kommo-o I feel was easier to check simply by virtue of being weak and being cleanly checked by Dkiss triage pixies. Ursa takes a DKiss easily and OHKOs back so not a great option
Psychic terrain mons can switch on Ursa as it drums but still cannot OHKO it, and there's really not that many good mons that learn encore
Triage DPunch is not actually strong enough to KO Ursa after Drum
None of the mons that can live DPunch at +6 can actually OHKO Ursa
I get the belly drum ban arguments, they make sense in my head. I also feel like a triage suspect would make sense, the fact that it's +3 and heals is often too much, you can't rely on chip and you can't rely on priority, so you normally need a way to cleanly OHKO the threat in front. But ultimately I don't think other triage users are a problem, and I've not encountered other good belly drum users, so maybe it's just Ursa
I kinda vibe with this paragraph as well
> "Ursaluna isn't unique just because it can occasionally win on the spot. At least 20 of my suspect test run wins were me bringing in Zamazenta-Crowned or Volcarona and never switching out, but there are some games where I ran into Skeledirge and Zamazenta-Crowned became an Unranked Pokemon. Those few games where Ursaluna is getting its autowin moment are drowned out by the majority of games where it struggles to do much against a well-built team. Maybe this isn't a popular perspective, but I'm totally fine with having some Pokemon like that. Sometimes you're just going to get rolled by something, but as long as it's not happening consistently enough to be disastrous, that thing doesn't really need to be banned. The metagame can still reach a fairly balanced, enjoyable, and competitive state regardless (or maybe you guys are hiding real defensive Galarian Zapdos counterplay in a bunker I don't know about)."
Idk I don't have nearly enough experience in this gen to tell what should be done so I don't think I'll vote.
Team: https://pokepast.es/5b6df1aff8222ba4
Would like to quickly point out that having been gone from smogon for a while, it's very cool coming back to see that y'all are still smart and the level of discourse is typically quite high. Refreshing.
EDIT: Apparently my reqs aren't valid cause I didn't prefix my name right, sad face emoji
So I checked sample teams and it seemed screens were op in this meta, so I prepped by bringing brick break quavo and a triage mon
First time I encountered Ursa I got 6-0d anyway :(
I didn't find many more options than running Psychic terrain and sacking mons since nothing actually kills Ursa, at least I've not gotten swept by it again but despite not getting caught by surprise by it I'm still not convinced it's not op. Especially now that psychic terrain doesn't have as good abusers as before, and the options for ghost types are lacking (or mostly banned) I guess Gengar can switch in and Encore but I've found options besides that to be quite limited
Kommo-o I feel was easier to check simply by virtue of being weak and being cleanly checked by Dkiss triage pixies. Ursa takes a DKiss easily and OHKOs back so not a great option
Psychic terrain mons can switch on Ursa as it drums but still cannot OHKO it, and there's really not that many good mons that learn encore
Triage DPunch is not actually strong enough to KO Ursa after Drum
None of the mons that can live DPunch at +6 can actually OHKO Ursa
I get the belly drum ban arguments, they make sense in my head. I also feel like a triage suspect would make sense, the fact that it's +3 and heals is often too much, you can't rely on chip and you can't rely on priority, so you normally need a way to cleanly OHKO the threat in front. But ultimately I don't think other triage users are a problem, and I've not encountered other good belly drum users, so maybe it's just Ursa
I kinda vibe with this paragraph as well
> "Ursaluna isn't unique just because it can occasionally win on the spot. At least 20 of my suspect test run wins were me bringing in Zamazenta-Crowned or Volcarona and never switching out, but there are some games where I ran into Skeledirge and Zamazenta-Crowned became an Unranked Pokemon. Those few games where Ursaluna is getting its autowin moment are drowned out by the majority of games where it struggles to do much against a well-built team. Maybe this isn't a popular perspective, but I'm totally fine with having some Pokemon like that. Sometimes you're just going to get rolled by something, but as long as it's not happening consistently enough to be disastrous, that thing doesn't really need to be banned. The metagame can still reach a fairly balanced, enjoyable, and competitive state regardless (or maybe you guys are hiding real defensive Galarian Zapdos counterplay in a bunker I don't know about)."
Idk I don't have nearly enough experience in this gen to tell what should be done so I don't think I'll vote.
Team: https://pokepast.es/5b6df1aff8222ba4
Would like to quickly point out that having been gone from smogon for a while, it's very cool coming back to see that y'all are still smart and the level of discourse is typically quite high. Refreshing.
EDIT: Apparently my reqs aren't valid cause I didn't prefix my name right, sad face emoji
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pretty frustrating that this is the 3rd time action has been taken on a pokemon for the exact same reason. if ursaluna gets banned (it wont) chesnaught will do the same thing and be suspected in a month. then when chesnaught gets banned ill load the same exact team but with slowbro instead.
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Better players have wrote my thoughts down already, but I will be voting ban. It's an unhealthy matchup fish and even if it has some common checks it can still get by them. Obviously a belly drum ban would be superior but sadly it seems that isn't on the table, even banning triage would be preferable to banning the bear tbh, but what can you do. I used Natcrozma's team so shoutouts to you thanks for posting it. Negative shoutouts to Isaiah cause I kept running into your boring team. AAA Best OM
Hit reqs and I'm not exactly sure what to vote.. I'm leaning towards dnb though
I started laddering with a tanky team but got shredded by hisuian arcanines multiple times because I have a skill issue so I switched to a team more centered on offense where fluffy roaring moon won me like 10 games (I ran some speed investment and eq over taunt for some reason)
7/2 edit: probably gonna vote ban now
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cursed run voting ban
This is a no-brainer.
I vote BAN. All day, all night.
1. It forces you to use the ability Unaware, Queenly Majesty and/or Fluffy or have a ghost type pokemon in your team which by definition limits teambuilding, thus being over-centralizing. This should be enough! However, let's keep going:
2. I would consider to BAN triage also, and not only Ursaluna. And we can ban the ability, since huge power for example is not allowed. Set up and sweep entire teams by using +3 priority moves while recovering HP.
Final consideration: It ruins all the fun and it takes literally 0 skills. All you have to do is set up and sweep. Using triage abusers is SO CHEAP. Noone with some self-esteem and a competitive nature would even think about using it.
I vote BAN. All day, all night.
1. It forces you to use the ability Unaware, Queenly Majesty and/or Fluffy or have a ghost type pokemon in your team which by definition limits teambuilding, thus being over-centralizing. This should be enough! However, let's keep going:
2. I would consider to BAN triage also, and not only Ursaluna. And we can ban the ability, since huge power for example is not allowed. Set up and sweep entire teams by using +3 priority moves while recovering HP.
Final consideration: It ruins all the fun and it takes literally 0 skills. All you have to do is set up and sweep. Using triage abusers is SO CHEAP. Noone with some self-esteem and a competitive nature would even think about using it.
Indeed. I also voted ban.
Attachments
aaa ladder decides to cheese me for a week until i realise gap balance is broken into ladder, tysm lordbox for the team that made me not mald into ladder 
ho inconsistent, don't use it for reqs, it's fast but you get farmed by the most random ass cores on ladder because you have nothing to fall back on, not worth it
ho inconsistent, don't use it for reqs, it's fast but you get farmed by the most random ass cores on ladder because you have nothing to fall back on, not worth it
I do agree that for the aaa metagame ursaluna is too much its versatility and raw strength is simply too much especially when it can be any set and bull over your team with ease so i do agree that ursaluna should be banned. Ursaluna in the aaa metagame is mostly running the triage set which makes it way too overwhemingly.
will vote ban, and will ban chesnaught and slowbro in some months if needed
Normally I will post the team that I used and give a detailed opinion on the mon at hand... But this time is special, all I can say is I plan to vote DNB and will make a fleshed out post in the AAA thread explaining the reason, look out for that.
- Status