Metagame SV LC UU Metagame Resource and Discussion Thread

Hi, I built a lot for tko this season. I think he did great, sad we couldn't close it out in finals. My own record was atrocious, but thats a combination of me being bad, me being bad at the old meta and me being unlucky. My losses dont count and im the goat, actually. Here's the teams and the thought behind them if I remember it.
:sandshrew::hippopotas::larvesta::croagunk::bramblin::voltorb:
So snow and chinchou left to OU and I thought well lets bring out old reliable sand. I love giving hippo yawn as a pseudo pivot move into shrew. I put choice band larvesta on it because it eats grass and ice attacks for you, baits switches to waters, which then take way more than expected on uturn and no longer check sand. Bulky waters ended up falling out of favor, so maybe this isn't that good anymore, but hey. Croagunk was given tera rock to maybe take advantage of the sand spdef boost.

:drilbur::voltorb::tentacool::doduo::trapinch::sinistea:
The aim of the game here was toxic spikes + a pinch to trap grounded poisons trying to absorb those. Poison jab drilbur happened to look good into vooper, who did bring another cottonee we got to snipe. Wisp sinistea also is pretty hard to safely play around, I like what it did. A bit more of a fishier team and pinch doesn't trap as much as you'd like when the best grounded poison has flip turn, but hey.

:buizel::voltorb::deerling::sandshrew::grimer-alola::pikipek:
Slowly started realizing numel is big danger here so torb has tera water instead of ice, and the start of my buizel obsession. Originally brought because the hackers were lacking in water resists. Having 19 speed and a stab pivot move is really good, especially when paired with tera psychic for the one mon immune to it. Scarf boomburst pikipek als imo is seriously underrated as it can very easily clean even through resists when paired with knock users (although it hates the uptick in tera ghost).

:voltorb::meowth-galar::bramblin::nymble::tentacool::crabrawler:
Torb has taunt this week because we saw wattrel spam, and hey, if wattrel can't roost it doesn't beat torb. Nymble + Meowth g were supposed to handle deerling, and the rest is standard. Unfortunately my realization about numel last week went out the window here and this team lost to it pretty hard. With a couple different teras it could be alright still though, even if nymble is not him.

:wattrel::tentacool::deerling::trapinch::doduo::meowth-galar:
We were already in so I brought wattrel just to put it into our scout. I went back to the tried and untrue toxic spikes + trap combo, and somehow decided that the thing to add to tspikes is paraflinch? Anyway my doduo has tera ghost just in case deerling tries something funny, but it wins the speedtie and crits me before I get to use it. More on that later.

:koffing::bramblin::numel::voltorb::buizel::croagunk:
Quinn said he liked Driftings week 7 build, so I adapted it by adding buizel my beloved over doduo in order to amend the numel weakness. Koffing has a tera to fight numel after it teras out of buizel optionally. There's not much extra thought into this. Work smarter not harder.

:drilbur::koffing::voltorb::dewpider::croagunk::meowth-galar:
Drilbur is back because mold breaker eq looked strong into drifting. Dewpider is this weeks numel check. Koffing was given a ground move to hit tentacool better so it cant be worn down by knock into gunk as hard, and meowth is chosen as a mon that resists headbutt and can then outspeed and hit deerling. It doesn't work out, meowth gets paralyzed and croagunks lack of fighting stab stronger than vacuum wave costs us for the first time this season. Still think the team is solid.

:rhyhorn::pikipek::greavard::tentacool::wattrel::buizel:
We went through a lot of teams and versions here, so I don't know if this is the exact one we ended up bringing. There was also our own deerling numel team at some point, but it wasnt clicking with tko so it was cast aside. Rhyhorn can deal with wattrel comfortably and still threatens the deer. Pikipek is physical this time but still just a scarfer that hits deerling super effectively both before and after tera. Greavard spinblocks forever and should only take 2 hp of damage from deerling zhb so it can sit on it provided it's not bullet seed. The rest of the mons are relatively standard. It again doesn't work out. I haven't seen the game and I'm not gonna look at it. ggs deerlings.

Now, on Deerling:
It's completely true that deerling needs to get overly lucky to get the results it wants. However, I still don't like what it does to the current meta both when playing and building vs it. None of the mons faster than deerling beat it well, let alone switch in. The best answer imo is voltorb, as deerling risks getting static para'd if it headbutts it, and then you can't really hit it without teraing to ice. There are a bunch of mons that speedtie deerling and in theory force it out, but then you are once again still hoping you don't get unlucky and lose the tie. Even if the deerling player shouldn't go for this, If they do their odds of coming out on top are annoyingly real. Then there's scarfers, but they really struggle getting in because of thunder wave. Lastly, there's normal resists or immunes, but they all still need to not get flinch chained, and like torb, some of them can be surprised if deerling slots bullet seed over zhb and suddenly hits them way harder than expected. Like I said, there are answers, and it isnt obviously ultra turbo broken as some are saying, but I still would like to see it banned, and we can look at it again once snover returns.

slugma balls with a badminton racket
 
Now, on Deerling:
It's completely true that deerling needs to get overly lucky to get the results it wants. However, I still don't like what it does to the current meta both when playing and building vs it. None of the mons faster than deerling beat it well, let alone switch in. The best answer imo is voltorb, as deerling risks getting static para'd if it headbutts it, and then you can't really hit it without teraing to ice. There are a bunch of mons that speedtie deerling and in theory force it out, but then you are once again still hoping you don't get unlucky and lose the tie. Even if the deerling player shouldn't go for this, If they do their odds of coming out on top are annoyingly real. Then there's scarfers, but they really struggle getting in because of thunder wave. Lastly, there's normal resists or immunes, but they all still need to not get flinch chained, and like torb, some of them can be surprised if deerling slots bullet seed over zhb and suddenly hits them way harder than expected. Like I said, there are answers, and it isnt obviously ultra turbo broken as some are saying, but I still would like to see it banned, and we can look at it again once snover returns.

slugma balls with a badminton racket

Yes pls
Screenshot_20250211-114938.png
 
Anyway, that concludes the recap (don't think ur off the hook Albi I still expect the finals double feature soon :blobtriumph:)
Bro writes a whole book detailing the entire tour and breaking down the two finals games, and his opponent shares teams and thoughts, and I’m not off the hook? Don’t think so
So yea I won’t analyze the game with my uninformed takes, just wanted to post some closing thoughts on the tour as a whole.

I personally think the inclusion of LCUU in the tour was a success (thank you Coconut for giving us a chance). I will admit the player base size concerns were valid at the start, but despite lily drafting the entire pool of mainers, the other teams ended up with some very solid spots, and many LC players had the chance to give it a go in a serious setting, providing fresh and new ideas on building and playing.
The games were enjoyable to watch (more on deerling later) and the meta evolved week by week with every player testing out new things. The general consensus I found in the lc server also seemed to confirm that it was a welcome addition, both from the ones playing and the spectators, tho I’m not super present in the community so I might have missed some complaints (again, other than deerling).
Congratulations to Drifting (here’s your ego boost king) for decimating everyone in a pool that wasn’t easy in my opinion, and well fought to tko who also had an amazing season. Unfortunately some plot armor favored the god of war in the finale, we needed him alive for the next games in Egyptian mythology, but I hope it was an overall enjoyable experience.

Now, onto more serious stuff, expect the individual tour signups to be released in the following weeks. It will be double elimination format. Now that the LC circuit calendar is released we will also finalize a calendar for our mini circuit so everyone will have a chance to compete without having to be drafted for a team tour.
LPL 14 is also starting so go sign up for that!

:deerling:
As for deerling, I am a bit more conflicted than before after watching the finals games. The thing is, in my view people don’t use it to do haha free flinch button let’s go, they use it because it is a good pokemon with great speed, resistances and role compression. It just so happens that sometimes you need to click the stab, maybe just to get chip on something for your plan, and boom, you also get a free turn.
I forgot which drifting game it was where he clicked it on a full health koffing. To him it makes sense because he just needs chip on koffing for his game plan, he doesn’t mind sacking deer, but then he gets the flinch and it looks awful. I don’t know, it’s just a good mon, not an auto ban thing, but in some situations has a 60% to get a huge upside out of nowhere even when not actively looking for it.
Now obviously this is not the only case, and it gives one more win condition in some cases, so I don’t know if this makes any sense, just more words thrown in the deer debate. We are figuring out the process for voting and gathering opinions on it.

And that’s LCBC folks, see you soon with more LCUU action :heart:
 
:deerling:
Hello friends, quick post just to announce that we are suspecting Deerling, since there are divided opinions among players regarding its impact on the metagame.
Voter pool is compose of lcbc players and builders


I will personally reach out to you to get your vote. Since its 15 voters and we need a 60% majority, at least 9 ban votes are needed for a ban.
Fun fact, this is the first suspect of the gen, Numel was our only tiering action and it was immediately banned.
Any discussion here or on the server is appreciated
Have fun
 
The first suspect of SV LCUU is concluded! We are still missing a couple votes, and I will edit this post to add them and their reasoning if they provide it. However, their vote would not change the outcome, as we already reached 10 ban votes.
Deerling is now banned from LCUU.

IMG_0401.jpeg



And here are the reasonings of some votes.
As my last post showed, I was starting to see why deerling was a bad presence in the metagame. We will miss it for its utility and typing, but the shenanigans it could pull off out of nowhere can swing games way too easily.
It's completely true that deerling needs to get overly lucky to get the results it wants. However, I still don't like what it does to the current meta both when playing and building vs it. None of the mons faster than deerling beat it well, let alone switch in. The best answer imo is voltorb, as deerling risks getting static para'd if it headbutts it, and then you can't really hit it without teraing to ice. There are a bunch of mons that speedtie deerling and in theory force it out, but then you are once again still hoping you don't get unlucky and lose the tie. Even if the deerling player shouldn't go for this, If they do their odds of coming out on top are annoyingly real. Then there's scarfers, but they really struggle getting in because of thunder wave. Lastly, there's normal resists or immunes, but they all still need to not get flinch chained, and like torb, some of them can be surprised if deerling slots bullet seed over zhb and suddenly hits them way harder than expected. Like I said, there are answers, and it isnt obviously ultra turbo broken as some are saying, but I still would like to see it banned, and we can look at it again once snover returns.
Deerling is too oppressive in the builder and easy to splash everywhere. Even if your build is specifically anti-Deerling it can always find ways to brute force through its checks
Deerling is really superior to the others in the tier, I think the meta will also suffer with this loss, it will be more complicated to deal with Crab, Wattrel, threats of 17 general speed, Deerling controlled these threats, Bramblim will be complicated to trade on him, besides that I see Golett Scarf becoming a big threat, who would enter in eq + poltergeist, Doduo or Pikipek should be knocked out by Ice Punch, Bramblim and Golett become dangerous in a scenario like this, but the limitation of having to use Scarf on them to become really threatening can make the meta deal with it, Doduo was speed tie vs Deerling, now he loses another opponent, he becomes more threatening than he already was, I think Deerling is a necessary evil, but he is more evil than necessary, that's my point, if he didn't depend on it exclusively lucky to be good, I would think about it, but rng is something that takes the strategy out of the game and makes it lose its meaning, if something becomes too strong after deerling leaves, I believe a new suspect will be necessary
Screenshot_20250211-114938.png

As sasori pointed out, and others, we are losing something that was a key piece in many structures, not just a 60% coinflip simulator, so the repercussions on the meta as a whole will be considered, in case something else turns out to be broken. In the future, depending on tier shifts, we could consider resuspecting it, but for now it will stay in LCUU BL.

Thanks to everyone who participated and made this a very fast and smooth process.

Tagging Marty and dhelmise for implementation (thank you, I think you’re the ones I have to ping, but if I’m wrong let me know)
 
I think the metagame in LCBC really demonstrated how good VoltTurn (especially Fire-Water-Grass [FWG] VoltTurn) is in comparison to pretty much every other playstyles, and the VR should reflect that. I think the tier is in a good place, despite the perception that it is the same 15 mons over and over again. A lot of room to bust out some underrated mons in the lower parts of the VR rankings w/o severely compromising ur team. Here are some of the noms I wanted to make:

Wattrel :Wattrel: and Tentacool :Tentacool: deserve to rise to S rank imo.
- Wattrel is arguably the best mon in the tier, similar to how Goldeen was in SS LC UU. It carries VoltTurn teams as the engine, and it pretty much role compresses everything u want (STAB combination resisted by a minimal amt of mons, pivot move, reliable recovery, double immunities to common threats, and good speed tier). It is also pretty much a major reason that Voltorb isn't S rank.
- Tentacool is the best utility mon in the tier by far. Spin + Knock + Pivot move on a 17 Speed mon is like one of the best combinations of traits u can get in a utility mon in this tier, not to mention that u also don't wanna switch into Gunk Shot. You can even tech stuff like TSpikes if you are trying to mu well into certain styles like sand or HO.

The other two mons that I would like to see rise are Numel :Numel: and G-Meowth :Meowth-Galar:
- Numel is either the best or second best offensive mon in the tier becuz, realistically, nothing wants to switch into a combo of Fire Blast/Flamethrower + Earth Power. Double Dance sets can win games on their own if Numel is given a chance to set up, and an offensive SR set is also underrated due to Numel's capability to force mindgames with pretty much all the major spinners. I still believe in StockPress sets, especially with no Deerling (so mons dont gotta run Tera Ghost) :totodiLUL:
- G-Meowth has grown on me the more I watch games with the mon (prolly cuz Drifting glazes the heck out of this mon). Knock + Pivot move is reason enough to use the mon, but combining those traits with underestimated bulk + Iron Head that hits like a truck make the mon even better. Due to its bulk, G-Meowth trades really well with a lot of the metagame staples; even with Deerling (which was one of the major mons that this guy checks), I still think this mon's usage will rise just becuz of how it role compresses really well.

Looking at S to B ranks, I don't think any Pokemon deserve a major drop. Doduo, Meowth, and Salandit could drop a rank. I think Flying spam with Doduo hasn't really been that great, especially with the amount of Voltorb (resist + static), Wattrel (resist), and G-Meowth (resist) that have been in circulation. Meowth has the opportunity cost of not being able to use G-Meowth + realistically not enough offensive-oriented teams to really see its usage be consistent. Salandit just has the question of who is using Salandit in this meta??? Sand also sucks, drop some of its mons please.

B- rank and below, I don't have much to say. Some mons I think could rise potentially are Axew (very underrated setup sweeper), Larvesta (second best? Fire currently + Crab check), and Magnemite (funny midground mon that kinda checks Voltorb + Wattrel, pivots, and has a mean Flash Cannon).

On another note, I really enjoyed LCBC having LC UU. The first few weeks were ok; the Magby-Chou-Gull-Ashrew meta was lowkey horrendous, but only having two weeks of that was fine. The remaining weeks were very fun imo and captured the essence of Goldeen-era SS LC UU, which was one of my favorite LC UU metagames. I had a lot of fun discussing what to bring each week in the chat with Drifting, Hys, and later Fernanch; if you saw Watt / Deer / Tenta, I prolly told Drifting to bring that core. The Semifinals team with FWG / Watt / G-Meowth / Crab is prolly my favorite team from that meta (prolly would swap Bramble for Deer for the full TWave experience); u can change a lot of different sets on the team to keep players guessing too. To finish up, I just wanna say that yes Thunder Wave is the best move in the game.
 
1743595513795.png

Hello LCUU fans
Here are the tier shifts for 2025 Q2 metagame!

We start from those who left
:impidimp: thankfully did less damage than initially thought, screens never really took off as a playstyle in these 3 months
:larvesta: its cool to see a previous uu staple (a-shrew) becoming so good that even its incredibly mediocre counter ends up rising. it was seeing some usage but i dont think anyone will particularly miss this
:shroodle: this was the most expected one, after the sun meta inflated this guy's usage so much, and it already hovered around the cutoff in normal months. Once again, good tools, fun potential, not nearly a metagame staple
:snubbull: i talked shit about this mon every time it came up as a terrible wannabe physical wall and now it goes crying in ou, where im sure the fairy type + intimidate is much more useful, to deal with demon mienfoo.

And here are our new tools, welcome back to
:bulbasaur: after dominating ladder when sun took over, it comes back to its rightful place. Maybe there's room for heat rock-less sun teams here?
:minccino: its always been mid here, but tbf it dropped when Magby, Elekid and A-shrew were legal, so the potential to make everyone cry with tidy up and tail slap is definitely there, we'll keep an eye on this one

Not too big of a metagame shake, especially when it comes to rises. Drops might be annoying but its just two, and imo if they're broken its gonna be apparent immediately.
 
IMG_0403.png

Art by sakenjane


Good morning friends. After many requests, we have our own LCUU mini circuit running!
The first tour is already ongoing, and these will be the the tours featured this year, and the respective points system, be sure not to miss them!

Type A
LCUU Cup V
- March 17th - late May

Type B
LCUU Swiss
- September 15th
LCUU Last Chance - November 10th

Type C
SS LCUU Cup
- June 9th

Single elimination tours will use this for scoring and double elimination tours will use this. Note that the listed point values are for Type A Tournaments, Type B and C Tournaments will use ratios of 3:2 and 3:1 for equivalent placements.

The top 8 players in the sheet will participate in the circuit playoff at the start of 2026 and get a chance at becoming the very best like no one ever was.

Good luck in the circuit!
 
:minccino:

Minccino has been quickbanned from SV LCUU!

After staying in the tier for 3 weeks, it has felt like very much on a different power level. The speed, the bulk, the diversity in moves and items, tera types, it always keeps you guessing and always just a little bit away from sweeping entire teams.
This came after discussing with the playerbase, where it was pretty unanimously considered broken, and council was in agreement to quickban it.

It will still be legal for today's games, but will be illegal for any game from tomorrow onwards.

Tagging dhelmise and Marty for implementation, thank you!
 
Back
Top