Resource SV Monotype Viability Rankings

[Pengairxan]

I mean if we want to make the viability rankings be updated it probably would help if we put down our what we think some of these home changes should be (or maybe not but I've already written these out so, no turning back now.) And as someone who is a Poison dingus I should probably do my crew.

I'll start with the Poison darks as I've covered them in the discussion threads before here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-monotype-metagame-discussion.3710724/post-9645372 so I'll try to keep them much briefer but if you want a bit of a deeper dive into my thoughts onto them, you've got that.

Alolan Muk: Unranked to S/A

Alolan Muk

Easily the most important mon Poison got through home, and the new best Dark type for Poison. It has so much good going for it with its amazing special bulk, solid 105 base attack, incredible offensive movepool, which includes not only Drain Punch giving it an actual form of recovery but also STAB Knock off which is just safe to fire off no matter the situation as it will make progress. The only notable downsides is the fact that it has no priority while being incredibly slow at base 50, a lacking support movepool and no way to boost up outside of Acid armour (and it doesn’t get Body press to take good use of it) but make no mistake it is glorious.

Overqwil: Unranked to A

Overqwil

Sucks as a conventional Dark on Poison due to having easily the worst special bulk, but it is has the best physical bulk of the trio, Intimidate can stuff mons even harder with a strong support movepool to back it up. And if it doesn’t want to play support, Swords Dance/Agility, a strong base 115 attack with its two strong STABS and water coverage allow it to go to town. But that pitiful special bulk and needing support to break types due to only have water for coverage gives it some hard downsides.

Skuntank A to B

Skuntank

Being the only dark type prehome gave Skuntank a lot of oomph but with two new ones there isn’t as much reason to run it anymore. It still has plenty of unique tools mainly in the form of Nasty plot to become a special sweeper, Fire spin for trapping opposing walls or choice locked Psychic moves and chipping these threats down and of course Sucker punch to smack the shit out of Ghost and Psychic but its time in the sun has faded.

Okay now new stuff which will be a lot longer of reads.

Slowking Galar Unranked to B/A

Glowking

Slowking Galar is a special tank that gives Clodsire a run for its money in terms of raw bulk. Combined with Regenerator and a neutrality to Psychic it can consistently find reasons to come in throughout a match. With boots it can provide strong pivots constantly with Chilly reception and heal with Slack off while with Assault vest it can come in and laugh at special threats such as Volcarona, Iron Moth, Hatterene and Enamorus (It is also the only real check Poison has to Lando-I so thats cool). It also gets a wide variety of moves to choose from such as Ice beam, Flamethrower, Earthquake, Surf and Power gem to name a few. It sadly has two massive issues which makes my confidence of it being an A rank shaky at best.

A. Its Slow (haha) and while bulky, it has to choose between being a special tank but being crippled by Poison’s horrid hazard removal or run boots and ignore the hazards but become less reliable at taking on special threats that Poison may need it to (I.e Lando-I has a 6.3% chance to OKHO if modest and Ghold has a 55% chance to 2HKO with Shadow Ball)
B. Currently the metagame has a lot of Dark, Ghost and Ground teams running around it and those types feast on Glowking, especially Dark and Ground which are primarily physical teams with one or two special threats which just makes Glowking mostly just sit on the sideline and come in a shack food in these matchups.

Sneasler unranked to A

Sneasler

Sneasler has become everyone’s favourite mon to talk about posthome (mostly thanks to Dire Claw) with its blazing 130 Speed and 120 Attack and it will fuck you up because of it. With Two main ways you’ll see it being ran. You’ll either see a choice scarf set that relies on being the fastest thing alive to constantly fire off attacks and U-turning around the field spreading Poison onto everything with its ability, Poison touch. Or getting Unburden going and becoming the actual fastest mon alive to sweep, especially if it gets a Swords Dance. And with Dire claw being the fun move that it is, fishing for a 50% (+30% Poison with Poison Touch) chance of status never hurt anyone, except the person being hit with sleep from it. It also similarly to Toxicroak provides an immense leg up in the Dark Matchup being once again a great answer into the obligatory end game Gambit.

It does come with a few draw backs, more than if it was on fighting due to Poison’s unique issues.
A: Poison hazard control issues, yadada you’ve heard this before but with the choice scarf set wanting to constantly blitz in and out even stealth rock chip can quickly add up and result it in just dying.
B: If it is trying for an Unburden sweep, due to Poison’s different mons and different type matchups it can force Sneasler to suffer from 4 moveslot syndrome having a hardwall on an opposing team that the rest of Poison can sometimes struggle to breakthrough or will force Sneasler to give up on the sweep early.
C: Kingambit, due to the nature of Sneasler likely being a Poison team's only fast mon that can kill gambit without being OKHOed by Sucker punch, it needs to be preserved carefully throughout a match against Steel and Dark teams unless they want to completely crumple against a gambit.

 

[Sugarbear]

OK, after laddering with Fighting for the core challenge I'm going to nominate the new arrivals.

New to A

Hide

This thing is one of the best late game cleaners available. Amazing Speed coupled with Iron Press make it very hard to stop, and while it needs Sub, Iron Defense and Body Press, the last slot is largely up to you. Crunch is my favourite to hit Ghosts, but you could easily run Psychic Fangs to threaten Poison types or Iron Head to hit Fairies. Doesn't cover any of Fighting's weaknesses as a pure Fighting type, hence A rank, but it's still very threatening.

New to S/A

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Surging Strikes is a ridiculous move, lets it break through Substitute users, Reflect, and defence boosts. Even past that it's got the movepool to hit just about everything you'll see for at least neutral damage: STAB Close Combat, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, U-turn, it even has STAB priority. It also has a lot of versatility: it can run Choice Scarf, Band, Swords Dance, Life Orb. Hell, I once ran into someone using Sub+ Bulk Up, and it got the job done. Run it however you want, it will get results. Best new addition IMO.

New to A/S

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Sneasler is a godsend to Fighting teams, as it's one of the only things stopping Fairy from stomping you. Nothing on a Fairy team wants to switch into Dire Claw apart from Klefki, which still doesn't want to take Close Combat. Even outside that, it's still very good. Choice Scarf lets it revenge kill almost anything, and even against bulky teams it can still put in work with Poison Touch or by tricking its Choice Scarf onto a wall. Swords Dance Unburden is a very threatening late game sweeper too, being able to outspeed absolutely everything. Having something around to absorb Toxic Spikes is always nice too, since Fighting teams rarely have space to run Boots on anything bar Great Tusk.

New to B

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While people usually pass this up in favour of Sneasler, the two actually pair up really well. Sneasler can lure and kill Pokemon like Glowking and Gholdengo that wall H-Lilligant while H-Lilligant can break through Pokemon like Landorus-T, Toxapex and Clodsire that threaten Sneasler. Hell it can shred balance Water almost by itself, which can be tough for Fighting to deal with. That said the power boost of Hustle comes with some big drawbacks and it can feel like you’re playing 5 v 6 until it’s ready to do its thing. Needs more support than other threats on Fighting, but it is still worth the effort.

New to D / Unranked

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This thing sucks. Yes, Triple Arrows is an amazing move. That's all it has. Oh, but Scrappy? Yeah Ghost teams still slaughter this thing. Spectrier and Skeledirge burn it, Flutter Mane smashes it with Moonblast, Specs Gholdengo blows it to kingdom come with Make It Rain, Ceruledge kills it with Bitter Blade, H-Typhlosion and H-Zoroark both wreck it with Flamethrower, as does Gengar with Sludge Bomb. But it has Defog, that's got to be worth something, right? Not really. Fighting teams don't care about Stealth Rock, you have Sneasler to remove Toxic Spikes, Sticky Web is non-existent post 1100 (and it's rare even before that) and if you're worried about Spikes you always have Great Tusk.

New to C

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Eh...unless you really need Spikes on your team, go with something else. That said, it is a pretty good Spikes setter since Leech Seed + Taunt beats Corviknight that don't run Brave Bird, Bulletproof lets you block Glimmora's Sludge Bomb and Great Tusk and Iron Treads both struggle to hurt it. Don't run Iron Press though, Zamazenta does that so much better.

 

[TheKart017]

OK, after laddering with Fighting for the core challenge I'm going to nominate the new arrivals.

New to A

Hide

This thing is one of the best late game cleaners available. Amazing Speed coupled with Iron Press make it very hard to stop, and while it needs Sub, Iron Defense and Body Press, the last slot is largely up to you. Crunch is my favourite to hit Ghosts, but you could easily run Psychic Fangs to threaten Poison types or Iron Head to hit Fairies. Doesn't cover any of Fighting's weaknesses as a pure Fighting type, hence A rank, but it's still very threatening.

New to S/A

Hide

Surging Strikes is a ridiculous move, lets it break through Substitute users, Reflect, and defence boosts. Even past that it's got the movepool to hit just about everything you'll see for at least neutral damage: STAB Close Combat, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, U-turn, it even has STAB priority. It also has a lot of versatility: it can run Choice Scarf, Band, Swords Dance, Life Orb. Hell, I once ran into someone using Sub+ Bulk Up, and it got the job done. Run it however you want, it will get results. Best new addition IMO.

New to A/S

Hide

Sneasler is a godsend to Fighting teams, as it's one of the only things stopping Fairy from stomping you. Nothing on a Fairy team wants to switch into Dire Claw apart from Klefki, which still doesn't want to take Close Combat. Even outside that, it's still very good. Choice Scarf lets it revenge kill almost anything, and even against bulky teams it can still put in work with Poison Touch or by tricking its Choice Scarf onto a wall. Swords Dance Unburden is a very threatening late game sweeper too, being able to outspeed absolutely everything. Having something around to absorb Toxic Spikes is always nice too, since Fighting teams rarely have space to run Boots on anything bar Great Tusk.

New to B

Hide

While people usually pass this up in favour of Sneasler, the two actually pair up really well. Sneasler can lure and kill Pokemon like Glowking and Gholdengo that wall H-Lilligant while H-Lilligant can break through Pokemon like Landorus-T, Toxapex and Clodsire that threaten Sneasler. Hell it can shred balance Water almost by itself, which can be tough for Fighting to deal with. That said, it is pretty much useless in the Poison and Flying matchups, and the power boost of Hustle comes with some big drawbacks. Needs more support than other threats on Fighting, but it is still worth the effort.

New to D / Unranked

Hide

This thing sucks. Yes, Triple Arrows is an amazing move. That's all it has. Oh, but Scrappy? Yeah Ghost teams still slaughter this thing. Spectrier and Skeledirge burn it, Flutter Mane smashes it with Moonblast, Specs Gholdengo blows it to kingdom come with Make It Rain, Ceruledge kills it with Bitter Blade, H-Typhlosion and H-Zoroark both wreck it with Flamethrower, as does Gengar with Sludge Bomb. But it has Defog, that's got to be worth something, right? Not really. Fighting teams don't care about Stealth Rock, you have Sneasler to remove Toxic Spikes, Sticky Web is non-existent post 1100 (and it's rare even before that) and if you're worried about Spikes you always have Great Tusk.

New to C

Hide

Eh...unless you really need Spikes on your team, go with something else. That said, it is a pretty good Spikes setter since Leech Seed + Taunt beats Corviknight that don't run Brave Bird, Bulletproof lets you block Glimmora's Sludge Bomb and Great Tusk and Iron Treads both struggle to hurt it. Don't run Iron Press though, Zamazenta does that so much better.

WHAT DID YOU SAY.

I actually nominate to A tier because against flying, liligant is the best cleaner available. First, it has ice spinner, meaning landorus and zapdos are not safe. Second, sleep powder makes corviknight no longer a threat as you can bring iron hands in and instantly force corv to switch. This also does not account for the fact that after rocks, cc unboosted is a 2hko. In the case of defensive zapdos or other pokemon that lives ice spinner, you just sleep powder, and 2HKO it. Lastly, here are some calcs to prove why lillig-h is one of the most frustrating pokemon for flying to beat.

+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 350-414 (108.3 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(YES that's including multiscale)
252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Landorus-Therian: 352-416 (92.1 - 108.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
(this includes the +1 from VD and -1 from initmidate)
+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 264-312 (66.1 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 204-241 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 272-320 (70.8 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Keep in mind, those calcs are done assuming defensive EV spreads, a lot of those often run more offensive EV spread, in which case the damage is not in your favor. Lillig often comes in late game and completely shits on flying with just ice spinner and leaf blade. Having either cc or worse, sleep powder in the back. In fact, if corv runs spdef:
+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Corviknight: 361-426 (90.4 - 106.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
The only pokemon not folding to lillig on flying is moltres which is a 3HKO even when boosted and with 3 hits you are very likely to burn it.

 

[Sugarbear]

WHAT DID YOU SAY.

I actually nominate to A tier because against flying, liligant is the best cleaner available. First, it has ice spinner, meaning landorus and zapdos are not safe. Second, sleep powder makes corviknight no longer a threat as you can bring iron hands in and instantly force corv to switch. This also does not account for the fact that after rocks, cc unboosted is a 2hko. In the case of defensive zapdos or other pokemon that lives ice spinner, you just sleep powder, and 2HKO it. Lastly, here are some calcs to prove why lillig-h is one of the most frustrating pokemon for flying to beat.

+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 350-414 (108.3 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(YES that's including multiscale)
252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Landorus-Therian: 352-416 (92.1 - 108.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
(this includes the +1 from VD and -1 from initmidate)
+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 264-312 (66.1 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 204-241 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 272-320 (70.8 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Keep in mind, those calcs are done assuming defensive EV spreads, a lot of those often run more offensive EV spread, in which case the damage is not in your favor. Lillig often comes in late game and completely shits on flying with just ice spinner and leaf blade. Having either cc or worse, sleep powder in the back. In fact, if corv runs spdef:
+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Corviknight: 361-426 (90.4 - 106.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
The only pokemon not folding to lillig on flying is moltres which is a 3HKO even when boosted and with 3 hits you are very likely to burn it.

OK fair enough, retracted the part about H Lilligant struggling vs Flying. However I still stand by my B nomination as it’s more niche and requires more support than stuff like Sneasler, Urshifu-R and Zamazenta.

 

[Swiffix]

Long-ass post but here's me sharing my quick thoughts on the post-HOME mons + some of the rises/drops (imo) of pre-HOME mons
Feel free to respond and comment, just keep in mind that I worked on this at 3am so it's very possible that I've missed something(s)

Bug

---> S
A must have in post-HOME Bug teams. Gives Bug a fighting chance against Fire- and Flying-types thanks to Sharpness and STAB-boosted Stone Axe (which also frees up a moveslot on Forretress) while providing Bug teams with a powerful Scarfer.

Dark

S ---> A
Still a strong contender for Dark teams but its passivity in the post-HOME metagame made it drop by a rank in my eyes. Dark now has several options for setting up hazards (Greninja, Meowscarada, Samurott-H and Overqwil for Spikes and Toxic Spikes (bar Samurott) / Tyranitar for Rocks), all of which provide superior role compression and can threaten foes out with more success than Ting-Lu.

A ---> B
As a Prankster user, this thing gets outclassed by Sableye which provides a Fighting and Rapid Spin immunity. Unless you're playing with Dual Screens, which Dark generally doesn't need, there's no real point in using Grimmsnarl.

---> A
It does its usual thing, double dancing into one hell of a sweeper and basically outclassing Jugulis after one Agiity. It does lack coverage and can get hard-walled by a few mons, though.

---> A / B
Not as good on Dark as it is on Water, but it still provides some nice utility with the spikes from Ceaseless Edge and eases the mirror matchup by Knocking Off opposing HDBs or using Sacred Sword.

---> A
Decent special wall when AV'd, spreads status, great help in the Fairy matchup (max SpD max HP: 4HKO'd by FM but can 2HKO it, 2HKO'd by IV but can 1HKO it after CC drop).

---> B
Barb Barrage is basically a coinflip poison which is extremely satisfying to click. This thing also gets access to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Taunt, making it useful for hazard setting and control.

---> C
Niche, but worth being featured in rank C. It can set up Rocks, has excellent SpD which allows it to take on FM and KO it with Heavy Slam, and can be annoying with Thunder Wave. It's fun to use.

---> C
On paper a Psychic-typing sounds good as it would allow you to deal with Fighting, but Hoopa-U is generally too slow to fit in Dark's playstyle and doesn't bring much to the table.

---> C
Meowscarada does it better.

Dragon

S Rank
S ---> A
Lost some of its value as a Shed Tail user since "new" mons are either better able to tank hits upon switch (Goodra-H) or less dependent on a setup behind Sub to start dealing significant damage (Walking Wake). Still a useful Rapid Spinner.

---> S
I hate facing this thing because it will eat any hit that's not a strong physical Fighting- or Ground-type move. Its bulk is unreal, its typing amazing, and its offensive stats are no joke either. It provides an answer to so many mons and types that otherwise threaten Dragon and shines in the Fairy and Ice matchups.

---> A
Strong STAB, good coverage, and Scarf turn this thing into a monster that can almost solo types like Ground, Fire, and Steel.

---> C
Doesn't bring much to the table.

Electric

A ---> B
I'm not the biggest fan of this mon. I find that it's outclassed by other mons in the type, and even Pawmot feels like a better physical attacker to use. Sure it can setup with DDance, but it's hard to find good opportunities for it to do so unless facing a passive mon.

---> S
This thing obliterates types that lack an answer to it, and Fairy is a good example. It's an excellent revenge killer and can double as a Rapid Spinner, providing Electric with some much needed hazard removal.

---> S
Zapdos is still a staple of Electric teams. It's a great addition, whether it's running a Specs set or a bulkier Sub + Roost set (which absolutely bullies Rain teams btw).

---> B
Solid pivot with good coverage, including GKnot to bully Ground and Focus Miss for Ice and Steel.

---> B
Fast Taunt, answers Ground, and gives Water even more nightmares. Quite limited in its sets though, which makes it fairly predictable and relatively easy to work around.

---> C
Doesn't have a particular niche, is overall outclassed by its alternate form.

Fairy

---> A
Great mixed attacker with access to great coverage against steel (Earth Power + Superpower) and Taunt to prevent hazards from going up (which is good since Fairy lacks hazard removal). It can also run a fully physical set, which means that foes like Flutter Mane will think twice before staying in and potentially getting hit by Iron Head.

---> B
Still a great mon, although slightly less viable as it requires a fair bit of setup to get started. That said, it should have plenty of opportunities to double dance with Klefki there to set up the dual screens. Draining Kiss + Mystical Fire give it all the coverage it really needs, along with some recovery.

---> C
It's outclassed in every way, whether it's setting up Rocks or dealing damage. Also no one wants a 4x Steel weakness lol.

Fighting

A ---> B
Outclassed by Lilligant-H despite Spore and priority.

A ---> B
Outclassed by Urshifu-R.

---> S
I don't think this needs much justification. Zama has an incredible base Speed tier, along with stats allowing it to either Sub + ID then sweep with a combination of BP + Heavy Slam, or just go the Band route.

---> A
Punching Glove + SD turns this into an incredible wallbreaker capable of OHKOing Corv at +2 and can rely on Drain Punch for longevity, CC for power, TPunch/Trailblaze for coverage, and Aqua Jet for priority.

---> A
Very fast answer Fairy which also gets rid of TSpikes and spread status thanks to Dire Claw.

---> A
Fast pivot with powerful STAB, asset in the mirror matchup or when facing Bug.

---> A
Very powerful wallbreaker with Victory Dance, good STAB and coverage with CC, Leaf Blade and Ice Spinner, and can even viably run Sleep Powder.

---> C
Outclassed by Lilligant-H despite Scrappy and Triple Arrow.

---> C
Outclassed by Lilligant-H.

Fire

---> S
Water immunity is always appreciated. This also has great coverage which allows it to handle threats like Azumarill with Sludge Bomb or mons that give Fire teams a hard time like Heatran or Pex with Earth Power.

---> A
Heatran has so many things going for it. It can prevent and set hazards with Taunt / Stealth Rocks, destroy bulky mons with Magma Storm, burn with Plume, or just straight up wreak havoc with Eruption and Earth Power.

---> A
Scarf + Rock Head + extremely powerful STAB with no recoil = monster. Also ExtremeSpeed for Revenge Killing, because why not.

---> A
Moltres basically serves as an upgrade from Talonflame and is among the best defensive mons for Fire teams. It plays an essential role in getting rid of hazards and spreading burns.

---> B
This is a bit more niche but can claim quite a few victims if it's allowed to abuse Eruption.

---> C
This might have some use in being a faster Armarouge with good coverage, but it's overshadowed by so many better, more viable options.

Flying

A ---> B
With both Landos, Thundurus-T, and Zapdos around, it lost its niche as Flying-s only answer to Electric-type moves.

---> S
Extremely powerful special attacker who can further enhance its power with NP. Has a lot of coverage in addition to its strong STAB and can choose to run Focus Blast, Sludge Bomb, Grass Knot or Psychic to deal with Steel-, Fairy-, Ground- or Fighting-types.

---> S
Either an strong Scarfer or a bulky lead with Stealth Rock, Earthquake, U-turn, and your choice of Taunt or Smack Down. Either way, it's a great pivot for Flying teams and valuable partner in either of its roles.

---> S
A potent special attacker when using Specs, but also an amazing asset when running a Sub / Roost / Discharge / Hurricane set, particularly against the Flying- and Water-type matchups. It can spread paralysis with Static or hinder walls with Pressure. 10/10 mon.

---> S
Flying's default special attacker which does not required any setup to get going. Moonblast is its most spammable attack, with Earth Power and Superpower handling Steel-types and more. It also provides a lot of utility options, such as Healing Wish, Taunt, or Tailwind.

---> A
Double dancer par excellence, loves to wait for the right opportunity to set up then strike.

---> A
Fast pivot with an electric immunity and good coverage.

---> A
Regen pivot with access to Taunt / Knock Off, but it can also run NP + 3 attacks and make holes in the enemy team.

---> B
Outclassed by Landorus as a fast physical attackers which can deal with Steel, but Defiant allows it to punish Lando's intimidate and deal substantial damage after a +1 while Scarfed.

---> B
Can use NP or Twave but is globally outclassed by its alternate version.

---> B
A great asset in the Flying-, Poison-, Ground- and Water-type matchups, as it can hide behind a Sub and spam Freeze Dry while dwindling down its foes' PPs with Pressure.

---> C
Outclassed.

---> C
Outclassed by its alternate version.

---> C
Flame Body is nice, but Corviknight does Defog better.

---> C
Outclassed by better special attackers.

---> C
Outclassed by better Scarfers , though the Agility set may have a niche.

Ghost

---> S
They gave the horse Draining Kiss. THEY GAVE IT FAIRY COVERAGE. NP/CM + Sub + Kiss + SBall. gg

---> A
Zoroark likes to run a bulkier Sub + Hex + WoW set, which allows it to capitalize on it tricking your opponent with Illusion. It also goes for Knock Off to cripple opposing mons. The Sub set is also nice because it can be played alongside a Sub Gholdengo set to really mess up Dark teams, and particularly Kingambit.

---> B
Phantom Force is a more viable STAB here than it is on Water, since you're not worried about wasting precious turns of rain. Adaptability Banded Aqua Jet is also a nice perk, and Wave Crash puts a huge dent in anything that doesn't resist it.

---> C
With the multitude of better special attacker that Ghost offers, this is outclassed by its variant.

---> C
Outclassed by better mons, although Spirit Shackle to trap more passive mons like Klefki is nice.

---> C
Outclassed by better special attackers that are less fragile and more reliable, like Flutter Mane.

Grass

A ---> B
Electrode-H offers better Grass STAB along with a fast Taunt which is more consistently reliable than Tricking setup sweepers or hazard setters. Rotom-M still has a niche and can run a NP + Sub set, but I think its overall outclassed by Electrode.

---> A
Fast pivot, fast Taunt, can run either a Leech Seed + Sub or a Specs set and is probably Grass' best option for a special attacker.

---> A
Like in Fighting, this is a very powerful wallbreaker with Victory Dance, good STAB and coverage with CC, Leaf Blade and Ice Spinner, and can even viably run Sleep Powder. It provides an answer to Dragon-, Steel-, and Flying-types that can be troublesome for Grass.

---> A
SD + Trailblaze paired with powerful STAB and Flying coverage with Wild Charge or CC for Steel make this mon a great setup sweeper on Grass.

---> B
Can run some pretty cool sets with Sub + SD or Band pivot. It's also a fast Taunt-user and gets access to Jungle Healing to get rid of status.

---> B
Somewhat niche, but Triple Arrow's effects can really mess up bulkier mons that try to switch on it and it's a good mon to have in the Steel and Dark matchups. That said, it needs to compete for a slot with Breloom and Lilligant-H, both of whom outclass it.

---> C
Lost its strong priority so it's mainly just a terrain setter that can run Band for some big damage.

---> C
Outclassed by better setup and Band users, and Brambleghast does a better job ensuring that hazards remain on the opposing field.

---> C
So many better options for bulky mons and Fighting coverage.

Ground

A ---> B
Still an insanely bulky mon but, just like in Dark, it's a bit too passive compared to the other options that the type offers you. Ursaluna makes the Ghost matchup more manageable, Clod/Quag/Shocks can set up TSpikes/Rocks/Spikes while also threatening troublesome mons like Meowscarada/Chien Pao/Corviknight, respectively.

B ---> A
Without this mon, the Flying matchup is almost impossible to win. It's got some decent utility options in Gravity and Spikes, the latter allowing it to form a good hazard stacking core with Clod and Quag.

---> S
Finally a strong special wallbreaker that isn't special Garchomp and has more coverage than Shocks.

---> A
I personally love running the bulkier set with Smack Down / EQ / U-turn / Taunt, which makes Flying a lot more manageable, but a Choice offensive set provides Ground with another fast wallbreaker alongside Scarf Tusk.

---> B
Great wallbreaker that can make the Ghost and Flying matchups easier to deal with, though it faces competition from Tusk and offensive Lando.

Ice

---> B
The Rock typing is just slightly more appreciated on the Ice type as it can threaten Fire-types with STAB Rock + Curse, but it's a pretty niche set and overall not great mon.

Normal

---> S
I'm a firm believer that Normal can't be played optimally without Zoroark-H. This mon brings too much to the table to be overlooked: great damage output with Specs, valuable Fighting-immunity, and lots of opportunities to mess with your opponent.

---> A
An absolute powerhouse that absolutely destroys most Steel-, Electric-, Poison-, Fire- and Flying-types. If brought in behind a Shed Tail Sub, it's even more terrifying.

---> B
A good specs candidate which provides a more proactive answer to Fighting-types than Indeedee and complements Staraptor. However, it does have to fight with Zoroark-H for a spot.

---> C
Just a worse Psychic/Normal type with a small niche in Intimidate.

Poison

B ---> C
Outclassed by Sneasler.

---> A
An excellent wallbreaker and potential sweeper that is able to pick up the pace after the rest of the team has weakened the opponent. SD + Unburden goes hard. Just make sure that Gholdengo is out of the way.

---> A
Bulky mon that excels at spreading poison, Knocking Off items and overall giving Ghost teams trouble, and tanking special hits.

---> A
Similar to Muk-A, but more physically defensive and able to set Spikes and TSpikes, freeing up moveslots for its teammates. It can also Taunt to prevent opposing hazards, and Barb Barrage is especially spammable on Poison teams.

Psychic

---> A
This thing is a threat. It can be mixed, Specs, or Banded - either way, it's likely to scare the shit out of you and force you out, likely sacrificing a mon in the process of scouting for the set it's running.

---> B
This either runs a Tinted Lens + Agility set or a Scarf + Sheer Force set (the latter being more reliable), both of which have been known to wreak havoc.

---> B
Out of the three fairies, this is probably the most viable. It offers a fast pivot with U-turn, along with some good coverage in Fire Blast and Dazzling Gleam. It also got a signature move with 70BP and 100% chance to boost its SpA by one, which is pretty neat.

---> B
Fat moon duck likes to setup some CMs then attempt to sweep with a mix of Stored Power and Moonblast, and it has Lunar Dance to heal from status conditions and restore HP. Although it requires some setup, it can get their with relative ease behind Indeedee's screens.

---> B
This thing can get a sweep going with SD + Trailblaze and run Close Combat to deal with troublesome Dark-types.

---> C
Outclassed by Hoopa-U.

---> C
Outclassed by other setup mons like Cress or Hatt.

---> C
Outclassed by Azelf, despite being able to run a bulkier spread which relies on the SpA boost from Mystical Power.

---> C
Outclassed by Azelf.

---> C
Fast special attacker but outclassed by options like WP Armarouge or Espathra.

---> B
Outclassed by Indeedee, who can setup Psychic Terrain.

---> C
Outclassed by Indeedee, despite a niche in Intimidate.

Rock

---> A
An excellent wallbreaker which is only held back from S tier due to its 4x weakness to Water and Ground.

---> A
Another powerful and fast wallbreaker which frees up a moveslot on a teammate as it can set up Stealth Rock while attacking. Also provides good coverage against Grass.

---> C
Outclassed by other Rocks setters

---> C
Terrible. Just a worse Avalugg.

Steel

---> S
The Fire immunity on its own already makes this mon a top pick for Steel, but the sets it can run are what elevate it to S rank. Whether it's as a Scarfed attacker or a special wall, Heatran is able to level the playing field against types like Steel, Electric, and Flying. Its good coverage allows it to set up Rocks and spread burns while forcing a switch.

---> B
Although not as good on Steel as it is on Dragon, Goodra-H offers a Fire neutrality, excellent defensive stats, and solid offensive stats.

Water

A ---> B
Outclassed by Urshifu-R despite a niche in Rapid Spin.

A ---> B
Outclassed by Gastrodon (special wall which provides an Electric immunity and does not fear Knock Off) despite a niche in slow pivot.

---> S
Ceaseless Edge allows this mon to set up hazards while dealing (significant) damage, Knock Off gets rid of HDB which helps against Ground-, Poison- and Flying-type teams (the latter being therefore exposed to Gastrodon's Stealth Rock), Razor Shell and Aqua Cutter are powerful STAB that get even stronger in the rain. Other options include Sacred Sword (for the Dark and Steel mu), Aqua Jet, and Taunt. Can also be run with Focus Sash to ensure KOs on pesky Fairy-types.

---> S
This mon has dethroned Barraskewda as the premier Rain sweeper. Swift Swim + Hydro Pump + SBall + Specs = death (if not, you can always click Ice Beam).

---> S
Punching Glove + SD turns this into an incredible wallbreaker capable of OHKOing Corv at +2 and can rely on Drain Punch for longevity, CC for power, TPunch/Trailblaze for coverage, and Aqua Jet for priority.

---> A
A good special sweeper which gets somewhat outclassed by Greninja but finds a viable niche in its ability to deal with Steel-types more effectively. It's also a good substitute to Greninja if you're running Samurott-H and don't want to double down on the Water/Dark typing.

---> B
Although Water Absorb is less valuable on Water, Volcanion finds its niche in being good bulky special attacker which can set up a Substitute against walls like Corviknight and Toxapex or even run an AV set.

---> B
Outclassed by the female variant. It has a good Water STAB in Wave Crash, but its only viable Ghost STAB is Phantom Force, which can be played around and wastes 2 turns of Rain each time it's used.

 

[TheWyvernKing]

Long-ass post but here's me sharing my quick thoughts on the post-HOME mons + some of the rises/drops (imo) of pre-HOME mons
Feel free to respond and comment, just keep in mind that I worked on this at 3am so it's very possible that I've missed something(s)

---> S
A must have in post-HOME Bug teams. Gives Bug a fighting chance against Fire- and Flying-types thanks to Sharpness and STAB-boosted Stone Axe (which also frees up a moveslot on Forretress) while providing Bug teams with a powerful Scarfer.

---> B
Barb Barrage is basically a coinflip poison which is extremely satisfying to click. This thing also gets access to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Taunt, making it useful for hazard setting and control.

---> B
Decent special wall when AV'd, spreads status, great help in the Fairy matchup (max SpD max HP: 4HKO'd by FM but can 2HKO it, 2HKO'd by IV but can 1HKO it after CC drop).

---> C
Niche, but worth being featured in rank C. It can set up Rocks, has excellent SpD which allows it to take on FM and KO it with Heavy Slam, and can be annoying with Thunder Wave. It's fun to use.

---> S
Zoroark likes to run a bulkier Sub + Hex + WoW set, which allows it to capitalize on it tricking your opponent with Illusion. It also goes for Knock Off to cripple opposing mons. The Sub set is also nice because it can be played alongside a Sub Gholdengo set to really mess up Dark teams, and particularly Kingambit.

---> B
Strong priority + terrain setter.

Couple things but lost Grassy Glide, it's only priority is Fake Out right now which is a big reason it's not being used really.

Kinda feel you're overhyping Zoroark ALOT, esp. compared to other S Class ghosts listed it's nowhere near as essential or really important to the build. It helps with the ghost mirror, but outside of that I see it as an alternative if anything when building a team, and largely find more success without zoroark on ghost.

More of a personal opinion but think ttar/the poison/darks can move up a rank. TTar is really underestimated imo, better special bulk than Ting Lu and some fun utility options like T Wave. This is more me hating VR without a D Rank (ken is this your fault?) If we had a D rank I'd say yeah it makes sense for to be C and in my head would make B Rank mons seem more viable. Though even then the Poison/Darks I feel may need to go up to A. No Poison/Dark makes the fairy/fighting much more difficult, with being a reliable answer to Valiant on fighting and helping with Valiant on Fairy, not to mention but not having one of them makes the ghost mu far more threatening as well.

Last thing I will say but feel it might be worth for To go C-->B on Bug. Though again, it may be fine C rank if we simply added a D tier. It's definitely alot easier to fit on the team now, and is a huge threat to Waters/Grounds/Flying while also being a special sponge to water mons such as Greninja, with Ice Scales allowing it to find multiple setup opportunities in the Flying/Poison/Ground/Water mus. It's strong Special with Giga allows for a decent answer to Dondozo, while hitting Gargancl hard with no sand up. Seems like a mon that helps Bug fill it's role as a solid Anti Meta type, and for the most part it helps bug pick up wins in neutrals without sacrificing much outside of 2-3 games where bug is unfavored.

 

[Swiffix]

Couple things but lost Grassy Glide, it's only priority is Fake Out right now which is a big reason it's not being used really.

Woop, good catch on Rilla I forgot about Glide being gone - dropped it to C.

Kinda feel you're overhyping Zoroark ALOT, esp. compared to other S Class ghosts listed it's nowhere near as essential or really important to the build. It helps with the ghost mirror, but outside of that I see it as an alternative if anything when building a team, and largely find more success without zoroark on ghost.

I am pretty biased when it comes to Zoroark because I love using it on Ghost, though I'll admit it's not as necessary as it was between when it got freed and when the other HOME mons arrive.

More of a personal opinion but think ttar/the poison/darks can move up a rank. TTar is really underestimated imo, better special bulk than Ting Lu and some fun utility options like T Wave. This is more me hating VR without a D Rank (ken is this your fault?) If we had a D rank I'd say yeah it makes sense for to be C and in my head would make B Rank mons seem more viable. Though even then the Poison/Darks I feel may need to go up to A. No Poison/Dark makes the fairy/fighting much more difficult, with being a reliable answer to Valiant on fighting and helping with Valiant on Fairy, not to mention but not having one of them makes the ghost mu far more threatening as well.

I really like Ttar too, but I don't think bringing it up to B is justifiable since most it's not as necessary or efficient as other B-ranked mons. The Poison/Dark's could move up, or at least Alolan-Muk could.

Last thing I will say but feel it might be worth for To go C-->B on Bug. Though again, it may be fine C rank if we simply added a D tier. It's definitely alot easier to fit on the team now, and is a huge threat to Waters/Grounds/Flying while also being a special sponge to water mons such as Greninja, with Ice Scales allowing it to find multiple setup opportunities in the Flying/Poison/Ground/Water mus. It's strong Special with Giga allows for a decent answer to Dondozo, while hitting Gargancl hard with no sand up. Seems like a mon that helps Bug fill it's role as a solid Anti Meta type, and for the most part it helps bug pick up wins in neutrals without sacrificing much outside of 2-3 games where bug is unfavored.

I'm iffy on Frosmoth, but then again I haven't played Bug as much.

 

[TheWyvernKing]

I'm iffy on Frosmoth, but then again I haven't played Bug as much.

I think we just need a D rank tbh with Frosmoth in C so it's not in the same room as Spidops

 

[Loginator]

The Rock typing is just slightly more appreciated on the Ice type as it can threaten Fire-types with Accelerock + Curse, but it's a pretty niche set and overall not great mon.

Accelerock?????

 

[Swiffix]

Accelerock?????

That's the 3am brain for you, that's meant to be STAB rock. I wish it got Accelerock...

 

[TheKart017]

I think we just need a D rank tbh with Frosmoth in C so it's not in the same room as Spidops

I feel like if we need to put a pokemon in D rank, their niche is so small it might as well be unranked

 

[Dead by Daylight]

As my Welcome Home run has ended, I’d like to share some of my nominations from the tour.

B —> A (Fighting)

Hisuian Lilligant is quite a threat on Fighting. During Welcome Home, it was the 7th most brought ‘mon (counting both Urshifu-SS and RS together, I think). While that may not seem impressive, Hisuian Lilligant can be a difference maker on any good Fighting team. Here’s a list of the pros and cons of Hisuian Lilligant.

Pros	Cons​
Victory Dance makes Hisuian Lilligant a great cleaner.	Hustle is…Hustle, but Hisuian Lilligant needs the power boost.
Enough coverage to threaten teams effectively.	Paper-thin - getting boosts will require good placement.
Beats the Unaware ‘mons besides Skeledirge, which Fighting hates anyways. (Dondozo, Clodsire, Quagsire)

I think that it’s quite good on Fighting teams, especially as a 6th ‘mon. Sure, it does compete with Galarian Zapdos and Urshifu-Rapid, but its positives cover its negatives quite well.

[Hisuian Avalugg nomination coming soon]

 

[Garry2Scary]

Here are my thoughts on ghost

A -> S
Dragapult being one of the fastest mons in the tier as well as being able to use many sets effectively makes it fit on to any ghost team. From sub +dd, band, scarf, specs, mixed, sub + hex along with other niche sets makes it so hard to predict and switch into. It also has access to uturn so ghost has a good pivot mon (this pairs well with being able to run so many sets because it can just force a switch). On top of all that infiltrator is so nice being able to go through screens and subs. Dragapult is really a must have for any ghost team imo.

S -> A
With the addition of flutter mane being the premier ghost/fairy pokemon mimikyu really isn't all that necessary on ghost usually only being put on offensive teams as it is harder to make it fit on balanced teams. It is still and very good on ghost especially since there are new dark threats like hoopa-u and galarian moltres that scarf flutter mane cannot ohko due to their naturally high special defensive stats which can pose a very huge problem to ghost teams that mimkyu can deal with since they have lower defense. Unfortunately for bulkier teams mimikyu tends to struggle as it really can't break down the walls even at +2

B -> A
Skeledirge with unaware just stops many physical sweepers with its natural bulk, reliable recovery and access to wisp. It is very important in the dark mu because it can outspeed and burn kingambit. It can mostly deal with a lot of types single handedly that could otherwise be threatening like bug or fire. It can also punish passive play by spreading burn or building it's special attack with torch song.

UR -> A
Spectrier is a threatening late game sweeper with nasty plot/cm it's high SpA and Speed along with it's ability which is just special moxie. It's downside has always been that it has basically no coverage so it just spam shadow ball. Which makes it very strong in some mus although most of them ghost already won or useless in others. Although now it has some coverage with drain kiss. However draining kiss and is more often useful as a recovery move rather than coverage move due to the fact that it is just so pitifully weak. Shadow ball does more damage vs resisted targets than draining kiss does vs neutral targets and at +2 scarf flutter mane can still deal more damage to dark types.

Calc for resisted sb vs neutral draining kiss
+2 252 SpA Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 162-191 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Spectrier Draining Kiss vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 136-160 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Spectrier +2 draining kiss vs flutter mane mooblast
+2 252 SpA Spectrier Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Moltres-Galar: 194-230 (60.4 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Moltres-Galar: 264-312 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

For this reason it is a bit hard to fit spectrier on teams, but from what I have found screens + nasty plot spectrier can be very useful some teams that they would otherwise struggle with (namely flying, some dark teams if you get enough chip on the right mons) if you are willing to give up a team slot for screens (dragapult/sableye are the main screen setters that come to mind)

UR -> A
Zoroark allows ghost to break walls and disable threats that it could otherwise not be able to with illusion. Being able to wisp/knock off the mon switching in because it was "forced out". Allows ghost to more easily deal with poison/balanced water. It has access to uturn for the momentum or can run sub + focus blast for sucker punch users. On top of all that it is immune to ghost which makes it very good in the mirror match or vs normal if they have ditto or another zoroark.

UR -> B/A
Basculegion has been one of my favourite mons to use on ghost because with adaptability + band+ wave crash it can just switch in and nuke a mon. It is a strong physical wall breaker that at worst can heavily damage physical walls so it is easier for dragapult to sweep late game. It also has access to aqua jet that can clean up frailer mons if they are chipped. Also helps with the ground mu which can be a little bit problematic for ghost. It also has access to psychic fangs/phantom force for anything that resists wave crash (namely toxapex)

UR -> B
Houndstone is a very good physical wall on ghost with fluffy. It very very good for the dark mu with the ability to eat hits from physical dark mons and kill/chip/burn them in return. It also helps ghost deal with physical ground/water/rock moves that skeledirge has troubles dealing with and also allows skeledirge to run more specially defensive/mixed defense sets to allow it to deal with special attackers better. Unfortunately it's only reliable recovery move is rest which is why it's not higher but it also has access to other utility moves such as priority, roar, yawn, sleep talk, etc.
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Houndstone: 295-348 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Def Houndstone Body Press vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 272-324 (73.7 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Houndstone: 195-231 (56 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Houndstone Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chien-Pao: 384-452 (127.5 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Houndstone: 256-302 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

UR -> B/C
Decidueye is unfortunately ghost's best specially defensive wall stats wise(besides flutter mane lmao), but it can switch into lando i, electric types, special variants of enamorus, glimmora, etc. Being resisted to ground/water helps it synergize with skeledirge. It is ghosts best slow uturner so it can allow flutter mane or other strong fast mons to switch in without getting hit. It also has knock off, defog and tailwind as other utility moves it could run. Unfortunately it is incompatible with brambleghast which is ghost best spikes setter so often times if you are running this you are not running spikes. I do think that it does have a niche over brambleghast with its better stats and access to knock off.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

(Fire): UR --> C

Hisuian Typhlosion's niche lies in Eruption. It can function as a decent Choice Scarfer in Sun since Eruption just nukes everything. Compared to regular Typhlosion, Hisuian Typhlosion can hit Ghosts with its Ghost STAB. While it's not the best, it can at least compete for a 6th slot if your team has enough hazard removal. It also pummels bulkier teams such as Poison if you get Toxapex out of the way.

Set

Typhlosion-Hisui @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Frisk / Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Infernal Parade / Shadow Ball

 

[TheRealBigC]

Given that this thread is active again, I want to submit my personal VR for Flying in the post-HOME meta. I'm not a super accomplished player, but I have been playing this tier consistently ever since HOME dropped and played a lot with Flying in the Core Ladder Challenge, so I hope my opinion will be of some worth. I'll only be addressing new mons and changes from the previous VR in this post. For the purposes of the tier list below, mons are ranked left to right in terms of how good I think they are, except for D tier which, as labelled, is unsorted. Any mon not listed is unranked.

SV Post-HOME Mono Flying Tier List

New Mons

S
Fantastic glue for Flying teams that single handedly solved many of the critical issues for Flying in the pre-HOME meta, that being a lack of a good rocks setter and a lack of a good Electric immunity. It serves as an invaluable support for Flying teams thanks to these features, while also serving as a sturdy physical wall and pivot thanks to Intimidate combined with U-Turn. It also supports Flying offensively due to its strong STAB Earthquake, massively easing former problem MUs such as Steel and Electric. Smack Down can be used to beat mons such as Zapdos and Corv that Flying would otherwise struggle with considerably otherwise, and prevents it from being dead weight in Flying dittos. I would almost never run a Flying team without this.

A
Strong and versatile special attacker with a variety of good sets, including Contrary, CM and Scarf. STAB Moonblast coming off that Sp Atk and Speed is incredibly powerful and very useful for MUs such as Dark and Fighting, and it has all the coverage options it wants including Superpower, Earth Power, Mystical Fire and Grass Knot to smash various walls throughout the tier such as Heatran, Corv, and Gastrodon. It even provides utility via Taunt and Healing Wish. Fantastic mon that fits on almost any team, only held back from S due to its fragility and not having a busted speed tier.

A
Another great glue mon thanks to its valuable Electric immunity and ability to serve as a strong pivot with high Sp Atk, decent bulk, good coverage, and access to a strong STAB Volt Switch which pairs nicely with Corv and Lando-T's U-Turns. It's particularly valuable against Water teams, as no mon on that type can defensively answer the combination of Tbolt + Grass Knot, and is also great for MUs like Ground and Electric. It can feel a bit like dead weight against certain fast HO teams, but it is generally an excellent performer with a key defensive and offensive purpose for teams.

A
Strong and consistent special sweeper with fantastic dual STABs that can single handedly end games early on. It's a bit on the slow side pre-Agility and will sometimes need special walls on the opposing team removed, but these are small prices to pay for its potential.

A
Was debating whether to put this in B or not, but ultimately decided on a tentative A. This is still Flying's main Scarfer, with great raw power through its good Attack and strong dual STABS, the ability to grab momentum via U-Turn, and a rocks neutrality allowing it to come in many times throughout a game compared to other Scarf options on Flying. Very useful against a variety of good types, including Dark and Steel, it will usually pick up at least one or two KOs in a game if played correctly. Defiant can also be used to punish opposing Intimidate mons and break through mons such as Lando-T.

B
Probably the most controversial placement on this list, the original Lando places at the top of B for me mainly due to it competing with Lando-T for a team slot. While Lando-I is an amazing mon in a vacuum, with the ability to hit like a truck with good coverage and bulk, I feel Lando-T ultimately contributes far more to Flying teams due to its higher bulk and better ability to pivot with U-Turn thanks to Intimidate, which gives it far more opportunities to get rocks up and compliment its teammates defensively over the course of a game. If you could run both this and Lando-T at the same time, it would be one of Flying's best mons, but as it stands Lando-I is hard to justify despite its clear strengths.

B
Perhaps another controversial placement, the original Zapdos is a good pick for teams due to its strong defensive profile bolstered by Static to punish careless U-Turns, ability to hit hard via Hurricane, and pivoting potential. However, it places in B due to its defensive strengths generally not being as valuable on Flying compared to Electric, and it competing with Thundurus-T who provides utility via an Electric immunity.

B
Enam-T is a good late-game sweeper option that can catch teams off guard via the combination of Draining Kiss, CM and Iron Defence, which can let it 1v1 a surprising amount of mons you wouldn't expect, such as Zapdos. It is somewhat held back by its low speed, vulnerability to crits, weaknesses to either Corv or Heatran depending on your chosen coverage and competes with Enam-I, but is still a strong and bulky threat that should not be underestimated.

C
Admittedly I haven't used this on Flying yet, but the original Moltres still seems a good option for Flying thanks to its good defensive profile and typing, ability to spread Burn around via Flame Body and Will-O-Wisp, and pivoting potential. It is particularly good in the Fairy and Steel MUs. I could see this rising to B as I use it more, but right now C seems appropriate due to the level of competition for Flying slots. I don't think it does enough for teams defensively to justify it in a lot of cases.

C
Lost a lot in the transition to Gen 9 including Knock Off and Defog, but can still put in some work as a fast Regen pivot with a strong STAB Bleakwind Storm/Hurricane, Heat Wave for coverage, and Taunt utility. Ultimately though, it struggles to fit on teams due to its lack of overall utility.

C
Decent CM Stored Power sweeper. You'd probably rather use Moltres-G, but Articuno-G is an alright pick. Falls into C as Psychic STAB simply isn't as good as Dark.

D
After extensively using Brav-H in the CLC, I've come to the conclusion that Brav-H is simply not a very good mon. If its sweep can get going, be this through either CM Tinted Lens Esper Wing or Agility Sheer Force, it can be very powerful, but other sweeper options on Flying are generally far superior. It's generally just too slow and too frail; Esper Wing sweep strategies sound good on paper, but are stuffed by the presence of any Dark type on the opposing team. More often than not, it just feels like a liability. If you want to use it, in my opinion its best set is Sheer Force due to its raw power catching opponents off guard, but even in this capacity it feels like an inferior Lando-I.

D
STAB Freeze Dry is nice for Flying dittos, Water and Ground. Unfortunately, Articuno doesn't really have much utility outside of this. Very niche pick..

D
Good movepool, typing, and speed, and Prankster T Wave is always nice. However, the competition from Thun-T and Zapdos is too high for this to be anything more than a fringe option.

Changes for Returning Mons

A -> B
Still an excellent Specs option for Flying teams with great STABs and coverage with a good speed tier and decent bulk, but has fallen off somewhat due to new competition from other strong special attackers in Moltres-G, Enamorus and others. Having to rely on 70% Hurricane is frustrating as well.

A -> C
Thun-T and Zapdos took most of its niche due to their better power, bulk and utility. That being said, Kilowattrel still has an excellent speed tier and access to Weather Ball, which can make it a good pick on Rain teams still.

B -> D
Unfortunately, I think Gyarados has almost completely lost its niche as a bulky Intimidate mon to Lando-T, who has far better utility. As a DD sweeper, it faces massive competition from Dnite, but it can potentially still put in work on Rain teams.

B -> C
Rain offence is still a viable playstyle on Flying, but with the plethora of new options on Flying that don't rely on Rain support, I think Pelipper has dropped off. Pelipper itself provides very little utility for Flying teams outside of setting Rain, and this Rain can only last 5 turns max due to the Damp Rock ban and has the issue of boosting opposing Water teams. Rain can be a good option, but generally it's unnecessary on Flying.

C -> D
None of these mons were good to begin with, and they have all been made worse due to the increased competition HOME brought, but all of them still have some niche to justify a placement on the VR.

C -> UR
All rendered unviable due to competition from HOME mons.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

I agree with most of your list, but I do have a couple of things that don’t quite seem right to me.

D
STAB Freeze Dry is nice for Flying dittos, Water and Ground. Unfortunately, Articuno doesn't really have much utility outside of this. Very niche pick.

I feel like this description seems to be ignoring Articuno’s ability to act as a special wall against types that can’t hit it super-effectively. Additionally, SubPressure sets can mess up defensive teams since their recovery PP will be halved. It’s been used in MPL (albeit unsuccessfully), so I think its combination of attributes can put it in C tier.

C -> UR
Rendered unviable due to competition from HOME mons.

While it’s true that Zapdos-Galar can outdo this, Flamigo has some niches over it that may be worth considering. Firstly, Flamigo has access to Scrappy, making its Close Combat far more spammable. It also can come into play in the Ghost matchup alongside Throat Chop, another thing it has over Gapdos. I think these two moves can potentially let it hold on to a spot in D tier.

 

[Giyu]

It's been a little while since I posted here, so I figured I might as well offer my current thoughts on Dragon. I've been using Dragon extensively since the release of HOME and I've built and used a variety of teams (cough Neko cough) so I have quite a bit of experience regarding the meta trends and such. I liked the format TheRealBigC used so I'm going to do the same thing, shout out to them.

Tier List

HOME Additions

-> S
Hisuian Goodra's addition to the Dragon roster was highly anticipated and counted on to save Dragon from the metagame tyrants. Its remarkable bulk and typing offer Dragon newfound counterplay to prominent threats like Chien-Pao, Flutter Mane, Kingambit, Iron Valiant, and Meowscarada; a list of Pokemon that Dragon teams would dread to see in the team preview. While Hisuian Goodra isn't all that flexible regarding its moveset, it is enough to flip the table on Dark teams with Acid Armor and Body Press, easily taking on the aforementioned Dark-types as well as OHKOing the previously mentioned Fairy-types with Heavy Slam. A truly wonderful Pokemon to use and needless to say, the glue holding Dragon teams together in the tough times developed by Chien-Pao and Flutter Mane.

-> C
Regidrago isn't anything special, although, it definitely has notable breaking power with Dragon's Maw boosted Dragon Energy and a new coverage option in Earth Power. As a special wallbreaker, Regidrago is going to be outclassed by Dragapult, Walking Wake, and Hydreigon due to its middling speed tier and general absence of coverage compared to the other three. Due to its lack of a niche but also not total uselessness, Regidrago can comfortably sit in C.

Returning Additions

S -> B
Cyclizar took a considerably large fall in the viability, mainly due to the addition of Walking Wake and Hisuian Goodra, making it generally harder to fit. Its roles as a hazard controller and pivot are still heavily appreciated by Choice Band Dragonite and Heavy-Duty Boots-less Baxcalibur, however, Shed Tail is more predictable now and the aforementioned Pokemon can use Heavy-Duty Boots to make up for their Stealth Rock weakness. Its utility in Knock Off and Taunt are still great and Cyclizar's speed tier is no joke, allowing it to setup Shed Tail on basically every wall and even sneak in some cheeky chip damage with Draco Meteor on frailer Pokemon. All things said and considered, I do think that B is a fair ranking, however, I wouldn't oppose to a lower A ranking.

A -> S
Dragon absolutely needs its entry hazards and Garchomp has both Spikes and Stealth Rock as well as phazing with Dragon Tail. It may seem one dimentional but Garchomp is just irreplaceable and has been a Dragon staple since the beginning of the generation. Garchomp is also great in the Steel matcup when using Fire Blast as it can catch Air Ballon Gholdengo and Corviknight off-guard.

 

[TheRealBigC]

I feel like this description seems to be ignoring Articuno’s ability to act as a special wall against types that can’t hit it super-effectively. Additionally, SubPressure sets can mess up defensive teams since their recovery PP will be halved. It’s been used in MPL (albeit unsuccessfully), so I think its combination of attributes can put it in C tier.

The issue with saying that Articuno can wall types that can't hit it super effectively is that so many teams pack coverage options which can in fact hit it super effectively; Fire and Electric mons and coverage are common. Unlike Moltres and Zapdos, Articuno also has no way to punish contact moves, making it pretty vulnerable to being knocked off, which is debilitating for a 4x rock weak mon. Your point about Pressure halving recovery PP is incorrect, as Pressure only activates against moves that target the mon with Pressure. I do think Articuno is somewhat underrated due to Freeze Dry being such a good STAB as I said, and perhaps it can serve as a decent special wall, but I feel with the amount of competition it has I'd need to see more evidence of its successful application before I would consider moving it up to C.

While it’s true that Zapdos-Galar can outdo this, Flamigo has some niches over it that may be worth considering. Firstly, Flamigo has access to Scrappy, making its Close Combat far more spammable. It also can come into play in the Ghost matchup alongside Throat Chop, another thing it has over Gapdos. I think these two moves can potentially let it hold on to a spot in D tier.

Scrappy is certainly a good ability to hit Gholdengo and Sableye, but outside of this you're running a mon that is inferior across the board to Zapdos-G for the sake of hitting two mons. This is not to mention that Zapdos-G can hit Gholdengo with Stomping Tantrum in a pinch, or can just simply pivot around it with U-Turn. Sableye is a fairly niche pick too, and you have other ways of dealing with it on Flying such as Enamorus (one of Zapdos-G's best teammates). I don't think Throat Chop is that good a justification for using Flamigo since Zapdos-G can hit about as hard against Ghosts with its STAB Brave Bird anyway. In hindsight I do think D is a fair placement for Flamigo as it does have a niche, but this niche is incredibly small and I struggle to see team comps that would rather use it over Zapdos-G.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Alright, I'll make a tier list. At the beginning of the generation, I began my obsession with building Fire. As one of (perhaps the only?) the few people that played Fire pre-HOME, I felt that it was a good type that had a chance to beat almost every other type (except Dragon, which was an instant forfeit). As HOME came around, I stopped playing Fire in favor of the other broken HO types, such as Fighting and Flying. I'm planning on using Ghost in the future as well. I've started to pick Fire back up now, but this tier list is mainly a homage to the pre-home days. The tier list is ordered by viability in each tier.

New Additions

B Tier | Hisuian Arcanine is an interesting 'mon to use. Its power is unrivalled: Rock Head allowing Hisuian Arcanine to spam Sun-boosted Flare Blitzes and recoil-less Head Smashes is great, and its ability to break slower teams is quite good. Extreme Speed is always nice as well. However, that's about where the positives end. Firstly, its Speed tier is quite mediocre for a wallbreaker: 90 Speed causes you to get outsped by most of the metagame, and Choice Scarf sets seem to lack power. Secondly, unlike Rotom-Heat who is a decent scarfer, H-Arcanine's middling bulk and terrible defensive typing make it unable to take many hits. It's a decent choice, but one that requires team support which Fire doesn't really have.

C Tier | As a Hisuian Typhlosion apologist, I find it to be an intriguing choice on Fire teams worthy of C tier. Its Speed tier is fine enough for a Choice Scarf set, and its secondary STAB lets it be a decent threat in the Ghost matchup. However, it is frail and doesn't provide much outside of Eruption and its Ghost STAB.

 

[Rio Vidal]

We have added two new members to the Monotype VR team, make sure to congratulate Azick and Neko. We also reranked every Pokemon, due to the volume of changes there will not be an explanation for each choice. Massive shoutout to ken for helping me out with the sheet. Feel free to discuss these rankings!

Bug

S Rank
Scizor
Volcarona

A Rank
Forretress
Kleavor

B Rank
Frosmoth
Slither Wing

C Rank
Heracross
Lokix

D Rank
Rabsca
Venomoth
Vivillon

Dark

S Rank
Chien-Pao
Kingambit
Sableye

A Rank
Greninja
Meowscarada
Ting-Lu

B Rank
Hoopa-Unbound
Hydreigon
Moltres-Galar
Muk-Alola

C Rank
Grimmsnarl
Iron Jugulis
Lokix
Overqwil
Samurott-Hisui

D Rank
Krookodile
Roaring Moon
Wo-Chien
Zarude

Dragon

S Rank
Baxcalibur
Dragapult

A Rank
Cyclizar
Dragonite
Garchomp
Goodra-Hisui
Hydreigon
Walking Wake

B Rank
Dragalge
Roaring Moon

C Rank
Regidrago

D Rank
Noivern
Salamence

Electric

S Rank
Iron Hands
Rotom-Wash
Sandy Shocks

A Rank
Magnezone
Zapdos

B Rank
Pawmot
Regieleki

C Rank
Electrode-Hisui
Rotom-Mow
Thundurus-Therian
Toxtricity

D Rank
Bellibolt
Eelektross
Iron Thorns
Kilowattrel
Oricorio-Pom-Pom
Pincurchin
Raichu-Alola
Rotom-Frost
Rotom-Heat
Thundurus

Fairy

S Rank
Flutter Mane
Klefki

A Rank
Azumarill
Hatterene
Iron Valiant

B Rank
Enamorus
Mimikyu
Tinkaton

C Rank
Enamorus-Therian

D Rank
Grimmsnarl
Scream Tail

Fighting

S Rank
Great Tusk
Iron Hands
Iron Valiant
Zamazenta

A Rank
Lilligant-Hisui
Sneasler
Urshifu-R

B Rank
Breloom
Tauros-Paldea-Fire

C Rank
Gallade
Pawmot
Zapdos-Galar

D Rank
Hawlucha
Heracross
Lucario
Quaquaval
Slither WIng
Toxicroak

Fire

S Rank
Volcarona

A Rank
Cinderace
Heatran
Scovillain
Torkoal
Volcanion

B Rank
Arcanine-Hisui
Ceruledge
Iron Moth
Moltres
Skeledirge
Tauros-Paldea-Fire

C Rank
Armarouge
Rotom-Heat
Salazzle
Talonflame

D Rank
Coalossal
Typhlosion-Hisui

Flying

S Rank
Corviknight
Dragonite
Landorus-Therian

A Rank
Enamorus
Landorus
Zapdos

B Rank
Articuno
Iron Jugulis
Moltres-Galar
Thundurus-Therian

C Rank
Gyarados
Moltres
Tornadus-Therian
Zapdos-Galar

D Rank
Bombirdier
Braviary-Hisui
Enamorus-Therian
Flamigo
Kilowattrel
Pelipper
Salamence
Talonflame
Thundurus

Ghost

S Rank
Spectrier

A Rank
Dragapult
Flutter Mane
Gholdengo
Mimikyu
Skeledirge

B Rank
Brambleghast
Ceruledge
Zoroark-Hisui

C Rank
Froslass
Gengar
Sableye

D Rank
Basculegion
Decidueye
Palossand
Polteageist
Spiritomb

Grass

S Rank
Amoonguss
Lilligant-Hisui
Meowscarada

A Rank
Breloom
Zarude

B Rank
Rotom-Mow

C Rank
Brambleghast
Electrode-Hisui
Iron Leaves
Rillaboom
Toedscruel
Wo-Chien

D Rank
Abomasnow
Appletun
Brute Bonnet
Decidueye-Hisui

Ground

S Rank
Clodsire
Great Tusk
Landorus

A Rank
Iron Treads
Landorus-Therian
Quagsire
Sandy Shocks
Ursaluna

B Rank
Garchomp
Ting-Lu

C Rank
Gastrodon

D Rank
Hippowdon
Krookodile
Palossand
Toedscruel

Ice

S Rank
Baxcalibur
Chien-Pao

A Rank
Abomasnow
Cetitan

B Rank
Froslass
Frosmoth

C Rank
Avalugg
Cloyster
Glastrier

D Rank
Articuno
Glaceon
Rotom-Frost

Normal

S Rank
Ditto
Ursaluna
Zoroark-Hisui

A Rank
Blissey
Cyclizar

B Rank
Indeedee
Maushold
Meloetta
Staraptor

C Rank
Braviary
Chansey
Indeedee-F

D Rank
Arboliva
Dudunsparce
Grafaiai

Poison

S Rank
Amoonguss
Glimmora
Toxapex

A Rank
Muk-Alola
Sneasler

B Rank
Clodsire
Gengar
Iron Moth
Salazzle
Slowking-Galar

C Rank
Overqwil

D Rank
Haunter
Skuntank
Slowbro-Galar
Toxicroak
Toxtricity

Psychic

S Rank
Hatterene

A Rank
Espathra
Hoopa-Unbound

B Rank
Armarouge
Gallade
Indeedee
Iron Leaves
Mew
Scream Tail
Slowbro
Slowking-Galar

C Rank
Bronzong
Cresselia
Gardevoir
Indeedee-F
Meloetta
Slowking

D Rank
Azelf
Braviary-Hisui

Rock

S Rank
Garganacl

A Rank
Arcanine-Hisui
Glimmora
Tyranitar

B Rank
Kleavor
Lycanroc

C Rank
Coalossal
Drednaw
Iron Thorns
Lycanroc-Dusk

D Rank
Diancie

Steel

S Rank
Corviknight
Gholdengo
Heatran
Kingambit

A Rank
Goodra-Hisui
Iron Treads

B Rank
Scizor

C Rank
Forretress
Klefki
Magnezone
Orthworm

D Rank
Lucario
Tinkaton

Water

S Rank
Toxapex

A Rank
Barraskewda
Greninja
Pelipper
Quagsire
Rotom-Wash
Samurott-Hisui
Urshifu-R

B Rank
Basculegion-F
Gastrodon
Quaquaval
Walking Wake

C Rank
Azumarill
Dondozo
Gyarados
Slowking
Volcanion

D Rank
Alomomola
Basculegion
Cloyster
Floatzel
Slowbro
Tatsugiri

 

[Giyu]

Congrats Azick and Neko

Why is Frosmoth higher in the rankings for both types?

 

[Neko]

Congrats Azick and Neko

Why is Frosmoth higher in the rankings for both types?

For bug, the pressure it gives to Flying and Water are quite notable with its Sub-QD set.

Similarly, for Ice it sort of also helps out on Ground and Water, and there's not really much other mons for Ice to rank. Freeze-Dry Glace is debatably better vs Water, but it cant boost speed so...

Ice Moth

Frosmoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Substitute

 

[TheRealBigC]

Thank you to the VR team for updating the rankings! Broadly agree, but for now I'm interested in a couple of positions on Flying, and one on Electric:

1)(Flying) How come Articuno is as high as B? Is STAB Freeze-Dry really that good? This isn't me trying to disagree with the ranking to clarify, it's a mon I haven't really seen much of so genuinely curious
2)(Flying) What justifies Zapdos-Galar being as low as C? Yes, it struggles to hit Gholdengo, but for me personally it's served as a consistently useful Scarfer on a game-to-game basis. It has a pretty good speed tier, respectable bulk, fantastic dual STABs coming off a great Attack stat, can pivot with U-Turn, can use Lando-T's Intimidate to buff itself, and isn't weak to Stealth Rock. Obviously Enamorus competes with it for the position of Scarfer now, but Zapdos-G to me still has a plethora of good traits that make it competitive with it, not to mention it can be paired with Enamorus so that Enamorus can use another set such as CM or mixed HDB all out attacker. I feel like it deserves at least B tier, but if there's something I've overlooked I could be persuaded otherwise.
3) Regieleki easily deserves A tier in my opinion; it offers so much role compression for Electric in being all of excellent speed control, a strong wallbreaker that can hit both physical and special walls, and Electric's only viable form of hazard removal. Many teams that neglect to bring a Ground type find it nightmarish to deal with (Fairy in particular really has no answers to it outside of Scarf Flutter Mane), and even teams that do bring a Ground type open up to being swept by it if that mon is removed (which can be easier than you might think using teammates like Rotom-W and Zapdos). Furthermore, even if Regieleki isn't the greatest spinner ever because of its relative fragility, it can still fairly easily get a Rapid Spin off over the course of a game both due to its speed and it easily forcing switches; I don't think I need to elaborate on why hazard control is so important in this meta. I honestly think it's one of the main reasons to run Electric as a type right now, its advantages are that strong.

 

[TheKart017]

I agree with pretty much 90% of the tier list, however I have some problems:
Dragon:
A -> S: Uh how are supposed to switch into any fairy move without it. OH you have dragalge, well that mon sucks. Yeah, for your only fairy switchin, this thing is mandatory.

Ghost:
B -> A: I argued this before and I will argue it again, zoroark should be A-tier, in fact, I think that the entirety of ghost should be shifted upwards a bit, hence:
A -> S A -> S
I think these are self explanatory, mane is you of your few options against dark and is just an insane special attacker overall. Without it you are screwed. Pult has the speed and uses it good effect against things that can outspeed mane or are scarfed.

Poison:
B -> A: Unaware is so huge for poison as one of the things that it has some problems with is setup as your only option to threaten them is with haze pex. When your team is highly defense, only one option against setup is not enough, hence I feel clod should be higher. Plus, clod and pex complement each other perfectly

Steel:
this is going to be a hot take:
C -> B: Steel is playing more offensive this gen but spike stack + protect spam is still degenerate and surprisingly good. Orthorm is a key component to that. It blocks gravity, which is a traditional weakness to spike stacking teams.

 

[TTK]

Alright, time to say my thoughts on the Rock VR, good stuff that we've finally realised Lycanroc Midday is better than Dusk, always has been. Sand Rush gives Rock a semblance of speed tiers and it hits quite hard with a Choice Band. Anyway, one discrepancy I've noticed since I've decently used the type in recent days..

D to B

I am genuinely baffled to how this is the lowest rank mon on the type when there's shitmon Coalossal and Iron Thorns, who frankly never do anything on the type. I think the Fighting neutrality is being underestimated here and it's Rock's best physically defensive wall. Now you're probably thinking "Diancie isn't even that good of a Fighting stop, Iron Hands and Zamazenta have hslam and Great Tusk has Ground" While I'll say that Hslam sucks for Diancie, defensive Great Tusk isn't even 2hkoing Diancie and it can just Draining Kiss. Its role in that pretty much unwinnable mu is get sufficient chip on bulkier mons and get Lycanroc to sweep with Play Rough. Iron Thorns and Shitcoal cannot hope to do that.

Anyway, onto things I care less about but still kinda my thoughts.

(Touch Grass) C to B - Ngl Grass's only consistent hazard setter and remover is being disrespected like this. Funnily enough, this stops you from losing to those offensive rain water teams with choiced Pelipper thanks to Wind Rider so C tier is baffling to me

At this point I would also put in S on Rock. Not running sand on Rock sounds like a massive troll to me when the type is already in the mud and without it, you cannot enable your best wincons as much. might be the best rock mon ever created, but it definitely isn't a necessity as much as is imo