weevile to a is absolutely insane alo, scizor, heatran and wogerpon's prevalence, tho it is a good knocker and has ice coverage a lot of the time tho i dont see why i wouldnt just have a samurot or a scizor instead, i dont think deoxys should drop seeing recent screens innovation in scl and olt, iron moth is generally significantly easier to fit onto screens and ho cores than anything below b+, also where is the clef hate coming from its such a nice utility mon into sand, heatran, garg, and a bunch of other mons, also hat to s- change my mindA- -> A
A- -> B
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> A-
B -> A-
A- -> B
A -> A+
A+ -> A
B+ -> A
I'll explain when I'll have the time
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Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #1101))
- Thread starter Shaymin Sky
- Start date
Sorry not trying to disagree but how is clef good into sand when its moonlight when it gets cut in half? Is wishtect a new viable set I've missed?
Thinking about it, sand rising in viability is a huge hit to Clefable. It gets worn down far easier and while healing less than 50% of your health can work like with Zarude in UU (though admittedly that also comes with the side effect of removing status), it is not nearly enough on a defensive pokemon with barely passable bulk in gen 9. Before realizing this, I thought that Clefable should be lowered but only to B+ instead of B. I still believe that, but I can totally see Clefable being B if sand becomes really good again (which I hope doesn't happen because not having Tyranitar in OU for once was a nice change of scenery).
Sand is not going to become omnipresent and frankly put, that does not make clefable anywhere close to being B. Clefable can still check ttar despite sand cutting into its healing, since it doesn't like taking knock off or moonblast, and any non stone edge move tickles it. The bulk has never been amazing, but thats not the point of it, its a defensive pokemon that does not care at all about passive damage, which is such an amazing thing. A lot of tyranitars are also dropping smooth rock, which means moonlights recovery reduction is less of an issue since its 5 turns max, which like, isn't the hardest thing to outstall. Clefable is A/A- minimum, anything below that (or even to B rank), is simply put ridiculous. It has a ton of other good mus (ting lu, zama, tusk, dragapult, garg etc) that make it an elite pokemon.
Finished putting together my thoughts of the meta thus far.
Notable Rises
A- > A+
The pinnacle of the anti-hazard meta. Hatt benefits from and enables dozens of offense/bo builds, contributing to its Top 10 usage. The development of Pain Split RH back during the early half of OLT not only improves its survivability, but lets it 1v1 Ting-Lu and Garg. Now its performing the role of a defensive backbone that fits on Balances with Psynoise + Nuzzle to generate excellent progress into non Gking structures. Calm Mind is as good as ever with Terrain and Screens rising in usage. Ironpress Zama has started teching Heavy Slam because Hatt is just that good rn.
A > A+
Don’t know why this dropped in the first place. Its the single hardest Zama counter in the game and presents excellent matchups into most of the physical meta including demon lesbian Waterpon. Nasty Plot has resurfaced and that set is nasty…plot. It has farmed wins throughout SCL as many teams do not prep for this set or lack no consistent answers to it.
A- > A
Should be higher. Unless it runs into Waterpon or G-Weez, this mon spams Flip Turn and never dies lol. AV is broken and it’s arguably a better special pivot than Gking with better MUs into Ghosts, NP Rai, Heatran, etc. Not even Specs Bolt kills this shit at full. There’s a lot of fantastic Mola pivot cores that compensate the Wellspring matchup with pressure from fast U-turners or dedicated checks like Hydra, Grasspon, Pecha, etc.
B > A
Might be a monumental rise, but it shouldn’t be a shock. Terrain Offense/BO is very good rn, and Rillaboom has proven to be explosive with SD LO. Many OU mons appreciate the passive recovery of Terrain and Rilla’s ability to force Knocks on the birds. Also enables crazy dual Grass offenses.
B+ > A-
iron moth shot dead in o-block. Ceru continues to skyrocket as an offense staple with screens continuing to perform well in SCL, picking between LO or Sash and Close Combat or Poltergeist, making it unpredictable and thus a valuable asset on SV OU offense. Glimm is just a great anti-offense, offense mon that punishes those Hatt/Torn/Kyu comps and teams lacking Tspike absorbers.
B+ > A-
Hydrapple is peak. Defensive glue with Regenerator and wallbreaker in one, so basically fat NP Torn. More Balances are starting to implement this on teams since it synergizes with other Regen pivots and 1v1s mons like Ting-Lu, SD Gliscor, Waterpon, Garg, Mola, Lando, etc. Sand has become legitimate (for the time being) and Hydrraple is an excellent fit on those structures. Offensive/Defensive Synergy with Ttar and doesn’t mind the sand chip.
B > B+
A surprising amount of Latios usage during SCL lately. They’ve adapted to the Hatt spam with Scarf Trick which also ruins its other checks and puts pressure on offense, historically its worst mu in SV OU. CM still puts in work vs Balance, and Heatran’s resurgence has made Latios’ defensive profile more relevant again. Also pls give Covert CM a shot, it 1v1s Hatt which is funny asf.
B > B+
Tealpon is back to its peak performance since the early half of 2024. It has found itself on consistent team structures in OLT and SCL, including Boots Spam, Specs Rai Balance, and Grass Spam. The utility of Knock + Encore and snowball potential with Tera is deserving of respect in the VR. Other sets like SD and most notably CB have also seen success.
B > B+
I could explain this throughly because I recently put together a Sand team that got JackRG to 2000+ ELO, so check that out and also the replays of Sand doing shit.
JackRG version
Intro
It’s the 2010s, Darude Sandstorm memes are everywhere, Minecraft and FNAF are the hot new games, and Sand is dominating the OU ladder. Tyranitar has received 4.99% usage on the OU ladder, so Me and JackRG decided to give Sand a shot in the builder. The result is the most cruel Sand team thus far, joining the ranks of the...
Intro
It’s the 2010s, Darude Sandstorm memes are everywhere, Minecraft and FNAF are the hot new games, and Sand is dominating the OU ladder. Tyranitar has received 4.99% usage on the OU ladder, so Me and JackRG decided to give Sand a shot in the builder. The result is the most cruel Sand team thus far, joining the ranks of the...
If you’ve been keeping up with SV OU, Sand is trending, to the point Ttar reached OU usage this month. Sand chip has incredible applications for playing around the tier’s insane non-Rock/Ground/Steel offensive types and breaking Dnite’s Multiscale or Ceruledge’s Focus Sash. Sand also has favorable matchups into offense with Drill outpacing everything under Sand and being decently consistent at spinning, as well as strong defensive backbones. Its Wellspring matchup has kept Sand off the map, but developments using Pecha and Hydrapple have levitated this issue.
As for Ttar itself, it’s proficent at forcing progress with Knock + Sand chip, managing to compete with Ting-Lu due to packing better matchups into Moltres, Gliscor, Torn, and Kyu. The Kyurem matchup is important. Not only has Kyurem usage heightened, but chipping it down has gotten tougher with dual hazard control structures Kyu finds itself on. Ttar comes in a couple times vs Sub-tect and scares it off with Knock or forces a Tera. CB is an underrated breaker and dumpsters Stall, 2HKOing Mola, Corv, and other bulky threats.
Even though Drill isn’t a necessity like Wake is for Sun, it still deserves to be alongside Ttar just for spinning and anti-offense role compression on Sand. Also Tera Blast sets sometimes pop off.
B- > B
Everyone’s been glazing this mon lately. Screens is in a good spot rn and Goltres trades well vs Ting-Lu and other special walls with Taunt to enable threats like Raging Bolt or Dengo.
C+ > B-
I actually find Fez decent in this meta. Checks non-Heavy Slam Zama, Bolt, Prima, Rilla, Tealpon, Pult, and more. Toxic Chain forces interactions that lead to easy U-turn vortexes. Nasty Plot sets are underexplored, functioning as a sidegrade to Pecharunt, trading physical bulk for more speed and special bulk. Moonblast + Dark Pulse hits a large portion of the meta and Fez is bulky enough to secure more than one Nasty Plot.
Notable Drops
S > S-
Still inarguably top 3, top 5 in the meta, but idt its on par with Dnite and Zama atm. Teams have gotten better at chipping and threatening Ting-Lu out. Pain Split Hatt and Rillaboom are troublesome matchups that have seen higher usage. The former makes Ting-Lu less consistent at setting Rocks/Spikes while the latter threatens an OHKO with Wood Hammer. Ting-Lu still remains a pillar of offense and defense with amazing progress making from hazards + Ruination.
A+ > A
The lack of defensive utility it provides does not offer Deo many opportunities to click Nasty Plot. Utility sets with Spikes have witnessed a downfall since Hatt usage skyrocketed. With that said, its the best screen setter rn, better than Ayy Tales.
A > A-
I don’t think its on the same level as Moltres or Zapdos for that matter. Corviknight checks a lot of things, but its greatest strength is also its downfall. Corv relies on being at decently high health to check most things which in practice is difficult when you’re fighting battles with Wellspring, Helmet Lando, CC Tusk, AoA Zama, and more. Corv wants Iron Defense to check things like Gambit after it Teras or SD Gliscor or Roost Dnite, but dropping Defog or U-Turn is tough. Zapdos and Molt are better at punishing physical threats via their abilitirs. Corv does have the advantage of Defog and being the best Knock absorber in the tier, so it is not outclassed by any means.
A- > B+
Its niche on offense has been taken over by Ceruledge and Glimmora. Booster Speed is ass. Basically every team has something that hardwalls it. Any team that gets swept by Speed Moth in big 2025 is ass. Only good sets are Booster SpA and Specs under Sun. Gambling with Fiery Dance boosts only brings disappointment.
A- > B+/B+ > B
The two worst Pokemon that are classified as OU (not counting Donbozo). Heatranator might’ve said putting it below A- is ridiculous, but ykw, imma be ridiculous. The utility Clef brings is undeniable with Rocks, Knock, T-Wave, Encore and Calm Mind can steal games. It does its job well, but its not splashable or as consistent as the A tiers. Clef does 1v1 a couple mons in SV OU, but there’s not much it outright checks. Take the examples Heatrantor provided (Ting, Tusk, Zama, Pult, Garg) It does well into Ting-Lu and Garg, but the other MUs are shaky. Tusk Headlong does 44% min, meaning even a little bit of chip will put it in 2HKO range. Same deal with Pult via Hex after being statused and Specs Sball. Zama is very iffy for Clef. Zama can Terastilize and turn Clef into setup fodder, or click Heavy Slam which naturally 2-shots it. Clef also doesn’t do well vs aggressive teams unless its Unaware, but Unaware is um….awkward.
Crown disappoints me. The main reason you put it on a team is to beat Kyurem and spam Tachyon. On paper Specs Crown should be a beast, in practice it ends up being overly prediction reliant with the amount of Steels and Grounds that exist in OU. Heatran is a real mon again and presents competition for Crown. Treads is commonplace. Offense matchup is awful. Getting a kill with Tachyon means Wellspring, Ceruledge, and Gambit get to do whatever they want for free. AV is decent, but lacks breaking power and completely folds to Ting-Lu. Maybe CM sets on Screens can do something, idk.
B+ > B
Screens is good but Ayy Tales ain’t it. Easy to anti-lead and very exploitable even with Encore. Deo is a better setter.
B > B-
So many teams pack 1-2 checks to this thing without trying. Keldeo has a tough time breaking in this meta, especially with AV Torn being a real mon.
B > B-
I might be a hater, but I rarely saw Ursaluna do anything recently outside of TR usage from MRH1106 and a couple showings here and there. It guarantees a kill every game, but its so tough to fit anywhere.
B- > C+
One hit wonder ahh mon. Haven’t seen much of this thing since WCOP ended. Rillaboom returning doesn’t help either.
Other noms I didn’t go over but will mention anyways:
A > A-
A- > B+
B+ > B
B+ > B
B+ > B
B+ > B
B > B-
B- > C+feel free to ask any questions and agree/disagree with my takes
Peace :)
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I never said sand would be omnipresent I am saying if it gets to near gen 8 levels. I never said the bulk was always amazing I just believe even with magic guard it is worn down far easier this gen than any other. I was only considering B as I think it could happen, but I personally think it is B+. The teamstyles it specializes on aren't that good right now and it gets bowled over by many offensive mons.
???
B- > B
Everyone’s been glazing this mon lately. Screens is in a good spot rn and Goltres trades well vs Ting-Lu and other special walls with Taunt to enable threats like Raging Bolt or Dengo.
A+ > A
as to not make this a one-liner: self explanatory but deo definitely should not drop by any means. plot has fallen off a bit due to other plotters with more defensive utility rising but is still very much a viable mon and screens has MORE than taken its place. hazards and aoa deo are both still solid picks asw. deo does not deserve to drop.
(nor do clef and crown with the recent success of fatter teams e.g. soulwind’s recent bring for clef and the ever increasing presence of kyurem for crown)
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Iron Boulder even being on the VR is a crime against humanity, i have never seen it do work against a good team, i would rather have a cosmoem with evolite on my team than this shit its so ass, i would rather have literally anything in c- on my team instead of a iron boulder, i would rather bring a lc team to a gen 9 ou match than have ts on my team. we should just ban this mon so i never have to see its midness againView attachment 785974
Finished putting together my thoughts of the meta thus far.
Notable Rises
A- > A+
The pinnacle of the anti-hazard meta. Hatt benefits from and enables dozens of offense/bo builds, contributing to its Top 10 usage. The development of Pain Split RH back during the early half of OLT not only improves its survivability, but lets it 1v1 Ting-Lu and Garg. Now its performing the role of a defensive backbone that fits on Balances with Psynoise + Nuzzle to generate excellent progress into non Gking structures. Calm Mind is as good as ever with Terrain and Screens rising in usage. Ironpress Zama has started teching Heavy Slam because Hatt is just that good rn.
A > A+
Don’t know why this dropped in the first place. Its the single hardest Zama counter in the game and presents excellent matchups into most of the physical meta including demon lesbian Waterpon. Nasty Plot has resurfaced and that set is nasty…plot. It has farmed wins throughout SCL as many teams do not prep for this set or lack no consistent answers to it.
A- > A
Should be higher. Unless it runs into Waterpon or G-Weez, this mon spams Flip Turn and never dies lol. AV is broken and it’s arguably a better special pivot than Gking with better MUs into Ghosts, NP Rai, Heatran, etc. Not even Specs Bolt kills this shit at full. There’s a lot of fantastic Mola pivot cores that compensate the Wellspring matchup with pressure from fast U-turners or dedicated checks like Hydra, Grasspon, Pecha, etc.
B > A
Might be a monumental rise, but it shouldn’t be a shock. Terrain Offense/BO is very good rn, and Rillaboom has proven to be explosive with SD LO. Many OU mons appreciate the passive recovery of Terrain and Rilla’s ability to force Knocks on the birds. Also enables crazy dual Grass offenses.
B+ > A-
iron moth shot dead in o-block. Ceru continues to skyrocket as an offense staple with screens continuing to perform well in SCL, picking between LO or Sash and Close Combat or Poltergeist, making it unpredictable and thus a valuable asset on SV OU offense. Glimm is just a great anti-offense, offense mon that punishes those Hatt/Torn/Kyu comps and teams lacking Tspike absorbers.
B+ > A-
Hydrapple is peak. Defensive glue with Regenerator and wallbreaker in one, so basically fat NP Torn. More Balances are starting to implement this on teams since it synergizes with other Regen pivots and 1v1s mons like Ting-Lu, SD Gliscor, Waterpon, Garg, Mola, Lando, etc. Sand has become legitimate (for the time being) and Hydrraple is an excellent fit on those structures. Offensive/Defensive Synergy with Ttar and doesn’t mind the sand chip.
B > B+
A surprising amount of Latios usage during SCL lately. They’ve adapted to the Hatt spam with Scarf Trick which also ruins its other checks and puts pressure on offense, historically its worst mu in SV OU. CM still puts in work vs Balance, and Heatran’s resurgence has made Latios’ defensive profile more relevant again. Also pls give Covert CM a shot, it 1v1s Hatt which is funny asf.
B > B+
Tealpon is back to its peak performance since the early half of 2024. It has found itself on consistent team structures in OLT and SCL, including Boots Spam, Specs Rai Balance, and Grass Spam. The utility of Knock + Encore and snowball potential with Tera is deserving of respect in the VR. Other sets like SD and most notably CB have also seen success.
B > B+
I could explain this throughly because I recently put together a Sand team that got JackRG to 2000+ ELO, so check that out and also the replays of Sand doing shit.
JackRG version
Intro
It’s the 2010s, Darude Sandstorm memes are everywhere, Minecraft and FNAF are the hot new games, and Sand is dominating the OU ladder. Tyranitar has received 4.99% usage on the OU ladder, so Me and JackRG decided to give Sand a shot in the builder. The result is the most cruel Sand team thus far, joining the ranks of the...
If you’ve been keeping up with SV OU, Sand is trending, to the point Ttar reached OU usage this month. Sand chip has incredible applications for playing around the tier’s insane non-Rock/Ground/Steel offensive types and breaking Dnite’s Multiscale or Ceruledge’s Focus Sash. Sand also has favorable matchups into offense with Drill outpacing everything under Sand and being decently consistent at spinning, as well as strong defensive backbones. Its Wellspring matchup has kept Sand off the map, but developments using Pecha and Hydrapple have levitated this issue.
As for Ttar itself, it’s proficent at forcing progress with Knock + Sand chip, managing to compete with Ting-Lu due to packing better matchups into Moltres, Gliscor, Torn, and Kyu. The Kyurem matchup is important. Not only has Kyurem usage heightened, but chipping it down has gotten tougher with dual hazard control structures Kyu finds itself on. Ttar comes in a couple times vs Sub-tect and scares it off with Knock or forces a Tera. CB is an underrated breaker and dumpsters Stall, 2HKOing Mola, Corv, and other bulky threats.
Even though Drill isn’t a necessity like Wake is for Sun, it still deserves to be alongside Ttar just for spinning and anti-offense role compression on Sand. Also Tera Blast sets sometimes pop off.
B- > B
Everyone’s been glazing this mon lately. Screens is in a good spot rn and Goltres trades well vs Ting-Lu and other special walls with Taunt to enable threats like Raging Bolt or Dengo.
C+ > B-
I actually find Fez decent in this meta. Checks non-Heavy Slam Zama, Bolt, Prima, Rilla, Tealpon, Pult, and more. Toxic Chain forces interactions that lead to easy U-turn vortexes. Nasty Plot sets are underexplored, functioning as a sidegrade to Pecharunt, trading physical bulk for more speed and special bulk. Moonblast + Dark Pulse hits a large portion of the meta and Fez is bulky enough to secure more than one Nasty Plot.
Notable Drops
S > S-
Still inarguably top 3, top 5 in the meta, but idt its on par with Dnite and Zama atm. Teams have gotten better at chipping and threatening Ting-Lu out. Pain Split Hatt and Rillaboom are troublesome matchups that have seen higher usage. The former makes Ting-Lu less consistent at setting Rocks/Spikes while the latter threatens an OHKO with Wood Hammer. Ting-Lu still remains a pillar of offense and defense with amazing progress making from hazards + Ruination.
A+ > A
The lack of defensive utility it provides does not offer Deo many opportunities to click Nasty Plot. Utility sets with Spikes have witnessed a downfall since Hatt usage skyrocketed. With that said, its the best screen setter rn, better than Ayy Tales.
A > A-
I don’t think its on the same level as Moltres or Zapdos for that matter. Corviknight checks a lot of things, but its greatest strength is also its downfall. Corv relies on being at decently high health to check most things which in practice is difficult when you’re fighting battles with Wellspring, Helmet Lando, CC Tusk, AoA Zama, and more. Corv wants Iron Defense to check things like Gambit after it Teras or SD Gliscor or Roost Dnite, but dropping Defog or U-Turn is tough. Zapdos and Molt are better at punishing physical threats via their abilitirs. Corv does have the advantage of Defog and being the best Knock absorber in the tier, so it is not outclassed by any means.
A- > B+
Its niche on offense has been taken over by Ceruledge and Glimmora. Booster Speed is ass. Basically every team has something that hardwalls it. Any team that gets swept by Speed Moth in big 2025 is ass. Only good sets are Booster SpA and Specs under Sun. Gambling with Fiery Dance boosts only brings disappointment.
A- > B+/B+ > B
The two worst Pokemon that are classified as OU (not counting Donbozo). Heatranator might’ve said putting it below A- is ridiculous, but ykw, imma be ridiculous. The utility Clef brings is undeniable with Rocks, Knock, T-Wave, Encore and Calm Mind can steal games. It does its job well, but its not splashable or as consistent as the A tiers. Clef does 1v1 a couple mons in SV OU, but there’s not much it outright checks. Take the examples Heatrantor provided (Ting, Tusk, Zama, Pult, Garg) It does well into Ting-Lu and Garg, but the other MUs are shaky. Tusk Headlong does 44% min, meaning even a little bit of chip will put it in 2HKO range. Same deal with Pult via Hex after being statused and Specs Sball. Zama is very iffy for Clef. Zama can Terastilize and turn Clef into setup fodder, or click Heavy Slam which naturally 2-shots it. Clef also doesn’t do well vs aggressive teams unless its Unaware, but Unaware is um….awkward.
Crown disappoints me. The main reason you put it on a team is to beat Kyurem and spam Tachyon. On paper Specs Crown should be a beast, in practice it ends up being overly prediction reliant with the amount of Steels and Grounds that exist in OU. Heatran is a real mon again and presents competition for Crown. Treads is commonplace. Offense matchup is awful. Getting a kill with Tachyon means Wellspring, Ceruledge, and Gambit get to do whatever they want for free. AV is decent, but lacks breaking power and completely folds to Ting-Lu. Maybe CM sets on Screens can do something, idk.
B+ > B
Screens is good but Ayy Tales ain’t it. Easy to anti-lead and very exploitable even with Encore. Deo is a better setter.
B > B-
So many teams pack 1-2 checks to this thing without trying. Keldeo has a tough time breaking in this meta, especially with AV Torn being a real mon.
B > B-
I might be a hater, but I rarely saw Ursaluna do anything recently outside of TR usage from MRH1106 and a couple showings here and there. It guarantees a kill every game, but its so tough to fit anywhere.
B- > C+
One hit wonder ahh mon. Haven’t seen much of this thing since WCOP ended. Rillaboom returning doesn’t help either.
Other noms I didn’t go over but will mention anyways:
feel free to ask any questions and agree/disagree with my takes
Peace :)
Only two i disagree with personally i got ursa at minimum A- and boulder at B+ ive done some crazy shit with both of these mons and ursa literally guarantees a kill in pretty much every game, also what even outspeeds a booster speed boulder you can get some insane sweeps with it if you just position correctly (example of boulder sweep vs storm zone)
B > B-
I might be a hater, but I rarely saw Ursaluna do anything recently outside of TR usage from MRH1106 and a couple showings here and there. It guarantees a kill every game, but its so tough to fit anywhere.
B- > C+
One hit wonder ahh mon. Haven’t seen much of this thing since WCOP ended. Rillaboom returning doesn’t help either.
Peace :)
Correction to my original post i believe iron boulder is now like c- and only viable on e terrain rlly like booster speed is atrocious icl