Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion [ SEE POST #5886 — mechanics update ]

So this is a HO, based on Stacking Hazards. https://pokepast.es/6900c1861aa3c495

Gholdengo @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
There’s Gholdengo, the first Pokémon I thought of because of its ability that prevents Defog. I put Substitute to benefit from the Corviknight switch-in to damage the Switch-In, so Chien-Pao cannot come in.

Slither Wing @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Leech Life
- Tera Blast
I have a doubt on this one, it’s basically a pivot that hits strong and forces to switch and take hazards.The Scarf allow it to outspeed Iron Bundle.

Iron Treads @ Leftovers
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch
So it’s Excadrill.

Meowscarada @ Black Glasses
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Play Rough
This Pokemon is both my spikes setter and my boots knocker.

Flutter Mane @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire
So it’s another Ghost to Anti-Spin.

Tinkaton @ Assault Vest
Ability: Own Tempo
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Gigaton Hammer
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
- Fake Out
So it’s my switch in to Flutter and Chien
No ground resist when the most common spinner are the Donphan Bros is kinda bad. Good team nonetheless
 
Personally far more in favor of a “terra clause” where you just have your terra types shown in battle than just banning it. I think Terra is super interesting to play around with and honestly I think it offers more to the meta than it takes away.

Part of this is a bias because Terra is fun. I have not had this much fun with a new gimmick in ages. It’s a blast with the extra layer of team building and mind games. Is it a little tilting due to its unpredictable nature at points? Sure obviously. But terra is not this breaker of worlds we worried it was. I will probably make a more detailed write up when it isn’t 2 am, but I do think that keeping Terra in our tier for now seems like a good call.
 
Personally far more in favor of a “terra clause” where you just have your terra types shown in battle than just banning it. I think Terra is super interesting to play around with and honestly I think it offers more to the meta than it takes away.
I agree with this. I think that it adds a bit of fun mind games and shakes up things, in a way that Dynamax just didn't. I think it would be better to experiment with it rather than just get rid of it.

I mean, a few months from now, if we gotta ban it, then sure. But let's hold for now.
 
Here's my silly Gravity team:
:chansey::Spidops::Sandy Shocks::Great Tusk::Chi-Yu::Gholdengo:
https://pokepast.es/f4789183364a23d5

Great Tusk is great on a gravity team. It has a 120BP Ground move, rapid spin for speed and hazard control, and Head Smash.
Gholdengo is also good because it stops both spin moves and Defog.
Spidops just sets up spikes and Webs. Stakeout is funny to hit Magic Bounce mons with U-turn.
Chansey and Sandy Shocks are the Gravity setters.
Chi-Yu is just an attacker with Taunt. Inferno can be used under Gravity for the memes.
 
Is Punching Glove bad implemented in Pokémon Showdown??? In Team Builder says 1.1 (10%) but in a VGC video says 1.5 (50%) increase.. Bassically a free band + protecting pads on punching moves (Jet Punch wink wink)..
Check this following pictures pls
View attachment 467204View attachment 467208

Serebii link says the same buff https://www.serebii.net/itemdex/punchingglove.shtml
Not gonna lie, I saw the same but just assumed I was wrong. Imagine palafin with that item tbh. Bulk up palafin is enough to get it banned if it ran that item
 

Karxrida

Lahabruh Moment
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Personally far more in favor of a “terra clause” where you just have your terra types shown in battle than just banning it. I think Terra is super interesting to play around with and honestly I think it offers more to the meta than it takes away.

Part of this is a bias because Terra is fun. I have not had this much fun with a new gimmick in ages. It’s a blast with the extra layer of team building and mind games. Is it a little tilting due to its unpredictable nature at points? Sure obviously. But terra is not this breaker of worlds we worried it was. I will probably make a more detailed write up when it isn’t 2 am, but I do think that keeping Terra in our tier for now seems like a good call.
I was conceptualizing a similar rule earlier today where we'd make it so team preview displays every Tera type you've selected but not which mons have them. This isn't a huge reach imo since the HP Mod technically works on the same principle (exact HP isn't displayed due to pixel BS but your opponent could give you the percentage), and it wouldn't even break game mechanics. It would just be a house rule.
 
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So this is a HO, based on Stacking Hazards. https://pokepast.es/6900c1861aa3c495

Gholdengo @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
There’s Gholdengo, the first Pokémon I thought of because of its ability that prevents Defog. I put Substitute to benefit from the Corviknight switch-in to damage the Switch-In, so Chien-Pao cannot come in.

Slither Wing @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Leech Life
- Tera Blast
I have a doubt on this one, it’s basically a pivot that hits strong and forces to switch and take hazards.The Scarf allow it to outspeed Iron Bundle.

Iron Treads @ Leftovers
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch
So it’s Excadrill.

Meowscarada @ Black Glasses
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Play Rough
This Pokemon is both my spikes setter and my boots knocker.

Flutter Mane @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire
So it’s another Ghost to Anti-Spin.

Tinkaton @ Assault Vest
Ability: Own Tempo
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Gigaton Hammer
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
- Fake Out
So it’s my switch in to Flutter and Chien
Tried this out, and while the concept of hazard stacking with Gholdengo is really good, it is really really fire weak which can be annoying in certain matchups - esp. vs Chi Yu, Skeledirge, and sun.
 
I have been fiddling around with max DEF gyarados, or which was earlier described in this thread as "Landorus at home". I felt like with the new mons being absolute speed demons, I needed a mon that could reliably use T-wave.
Even though I really love electrode and am excited for its return, it really cannot serve that purpose. Furthermore, the distribution of roar and whirlwind felt kind of lacking, so dragon tail was a difficult inclusion.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Waterfall
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt

Needless to say, fast substitutes are a glaring weakness to the set. Especially with fluttering manes starting to ditch coverage for utility moves. At this moment it still serves as a counter towards palafin without shed tail support, but with the more common bulk up sets, I'm also expecting people to eventually run substitute as well when they realize the mon is just jet punch.exe. Iron bundle is also a major issue.

Besides that, it's a really solid answer to Great Tusk. It has resistances to both STABs and can attack for super effective. Great tusk is a solid lead and spinner, so I expect that matchup to become more relevant once the meta has stabilized.

Furthermore, I haven't noticed a lot of electric coverage going on the ladder, which is one of its main detriments, the other being a stealth rock weakness. Once people start to pick up sandy shocks or iron thorns, I can see it becoming an issue. But at this moment, it does not look like Gyarados needs to terastilize to perform optimally, which does open up more flexibility in team building and play.

It is not a crystal clear answer to many of the threats in the current meta, but I think it can serve a decent amount of roles in a single slot.
 

3d

bag on me like im jansportin
is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor
with all of the HO spamming going on I decided to get in on it and put together this pretty cool iron thorns lead set.

Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 23 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Dragon Tail

the idea is u start off with 400 speed and all the tools any HO lead would need, namely taunt and hazards. in my experience with it it seems pretty cool and its upside over glimmora is it taunts other hazard setters letting u be the only person to getup hazards which can be pivotal in ho vs ho games. tera ghost is there to block spin in a pinch and takes away the 4x ground weakness too so u wont die to ground moves if ur relatively healthy. dragon tail is honestly just there to call out random setup moves and to phase out stuff but i rarely ever click it.
 
with all of the HO spamming going on I decided to get in on it and put together this pretty cool iron thorns lead set.

Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 23 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Dragon Tail

the idea is u start off with 400 speed and all the tools any HO lead would need, namely taunt and hazards. in my experience with it it seems pretty cool and its upside over glimmora is it taunts other hazard setters letting u be the only person to getup hazards which can be pivotal in ho vs ho games. tera ghost is there to block spin in a pinch and takes away the 4x ground weakness too so u wont die to ground moves if ur relatively healthy. dragon tail is honestly just there to call out random setup moves and to phase out stuff but i rarely ever click it.
If you rarely click it, you could run EQ, since Mortal Spin from Glimmora spins away a your Hazards.
 
Edited since I didn't include an alomomola set, but tbh outside of wish passing and walling some stuff, it's prob one of the worst.

Alright. This is gonna be long so I might aswell get to it.
This gen lacks walls, what we were used to was A LOT of them, but to be real, there are still many pokemon who can be used as such, and many new ones introduced this gen.
I'm gonna make a quick list of the mons I found the most threatning as walls and their possible sets.
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Mach Punch
- Spore
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast
This Pokemon is amazing at dealing with palafin, rain teams while tricking pelippers into believing they have a free ko with tera electric and even the donphans who threaten everything so much. It can spread spore to basically stop would be checks and it regenerates a lot of the damage it takes with the poison heal ability, sadly, it is a bit slow and raw stats aren't the best, but it gets the job done really well and it's one of the best walls in the tier right now. Tera blast with tera electric is a set I really like to run, but bullet seed is also amazing, and you can even run offensive sets with the dice and technician.
Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog
- Iron Head
What an amazing pokemon, enough to hold itself brave in this HO meta. It is a good physical wall that punishes any agression wiht rocky helmet, it's amazing in screens teams since it ends opposing screens aswell and it has u turn to pivot out, together with roost, which even nerfed, serves enough porpose for it to be good. It can also run something like safety goggles since spore is so common right now, countering like this, breloom, amoongus and other spore users. It can also run body press but flutter mane right now would use this as a free setup sooo...
Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Toxic
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
Amazing pokemon that you can have a regenerator pokemon with great typing, toxic that so many pokemon lost access to and access to spore can be found. Together with a rocky helmet, physical problems are no more. This one is pretty clear on why it is good.
Blissey @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
As of right now it gives a free setup to calm mind flutter mane, but once that thing is banned, it will be the good old reliable wall we all know. Just not as good and with more competition now, since it lost toxic and has to be stuck on status like thunder wave now.
Alomomola @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Liquidation
- Wish
- Zen Headbutt
- Healing Wish
As a regenerator mon with an incredible hp stat, with it's 80 def it can work as a wall to many pokemon, passing wishes around. Definitely a pokemon you should try if you want a wish passer.
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
Or
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
It's movepool took a big hit, it can no longer pain split, toxic or defog, however, it still has a good movepool with moves like will o wisp or thunder wave for status. Volt switch for pivoting and it's overall an amazing pokemon, being an electric type that counters the donphans. I still believe the trick set is good, specially since you can shut down a would be wall, and it's always risking a 50/50 to switch into something that counters hydro or something that counters volt switch. The defensive set can run shadow ball instead of foul play or even thunder wave aswell, but I just feel like foul play can bring more value. You can also run special defensive, I just prefer physical because of pokemon like palafin.
Grimmsnarl @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Careful Nature
- Parting Shot
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Spirit Break
This pokemon is amazing in this meta, although it is destroyed by gholdengo, it sets up screens with priority so it always takes half damage, and can parting shot after screens to a pokemon that will take absolute no damage. Pair this with something like cyclizar to pass a substitute to a pokemon like dragonite and you will have a god in your hands, that takes 4 times less damage from everything. Screens right now are really good, since defog is so hard to find, so I really believe in this pokemon. Spirit break is just to make sure it still has an attack that also lowers spa, but false surrender wouldn't be bad either.
Gholdengo @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Recover
Or
Gholdengo @ Light Clay
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave
Being the best screen users in the tier, making removing screens impossible and spreading thunder wave, makes this pokemon incredible. Without investment it's spa is an absolute menace and after screens you easily survive things like a crunch from chien-pao for an easy ko. The other set I inspired myself in melmetal, which although has no toxic, gains recover on a better typing, and with make it rain and shadow ball, nothing likes to switch in on it. You can of course choose to run special defense but I find physical much better.
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Roost
- Thunder Wave
- Fire Punch
This pokemon has a crazy movepool and with multiscale it can handle a lot of things that could normally destroy it. Espeed gives it a good revenge kill option, thunder wave cripples many pokemon and roost is amazing to try to look for a full para. Fire punch exists so that gholdengo and corviknight don't wall it. You can also run earthquake or ice coverage if you feel like the moveset could be better. Physical defense is also fine, but personally, I kinda prefer to use the offensive dragon dance set with shed tail cyclizar, since multiscale works behind the sub.
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Earthquake
Or
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Body Press
- Amnesia
- Recover
Clodsire is an amazing pokemon, that completely counters palafin, one of the strongest pokemon right now. Some are starting to run ice punch purely to be able to touch this thing, in which case if people do, stop using tera flying and choose smt that's neutral against throwards them and ground. It's really cool to see a pokemon that can setup spikes, toxic, stealth rock and have an amazing typing and ability, also being able to run unaware with a curse and amnesia strategy. I personally prefer this to boost to the maximum but you can also choose something like stockpile.
Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Headlong Rush
- Stealth Rock
- Bulk Up
Threatned by palafin, tera grass should be the best option for it. It can stealth rock for the team and then run a bulk up set with body press, having headlong rush as amazing cover. This one is pretty obvious on why it's good, the pokemon itself is amazing.
Houndstone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Last Respects
- Play Rough
- Psychic Fangs
- Stomping Tantrum
Or
Houndstone @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Last Respects
- Will-O-Wisp
- Body Press
- Yawn
I included the scarf variation because of fluffy, since with last respects, until the move is banned, is one of the best cleaners late game. And this solves problems like the many physical priorities and having to run ttar/hippo. Fluffy defensive houndstone is insane. With body press it deals a good amount of damage and threatens chien pao on switch in, yawn forces opponent to switch or gets the pokemon asleep while you gain lefties recovery and will o wisp shuts down physical attackers. Last respects on it is pretty straight foward.
Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake
It can run stealth rock, spikes, whirlwind for the many present substitutes and even memento. This pokemon is amazing for hazard stacking teams and it's stats allow him to tank pretty well. More of a hazard setter, but eq and body press can put in a good amount of work, and before flutter mane is banned, heavy slam is a REALLY good option.
Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Body Press
- Protect
Seen as a worst Ting-Lu, this pokemon is actually pretty amazing. You can run a defensive set with leech seed and protect to chip down any switch in, having body press and knock off in the movepool aswell to solve ghost types. It can also learn foul play so it's definitely an option over knock off if physical ghost types like dragon dance dragapult start showing up.
Toedscruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Energy Ball
- Earth Power
- Rapid Spin
An amazing pokemon that counters the donphans and gholdengo, rapid spins, spores ignoring abilities and has overall a great movepool with sludge bomb, dazzling gleam, flash cannon and Knock Off. All of this are options depending on what you are building around, and it can take pretty well on special attackers.
Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Liquidation
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
This pokemon is AMAZING. Having such a good hp stat, it can curse late game and win pretty much by doing nothing. Special grass types aren't really a thing right now, and neither are electric, so unless there is a special iron bundle running around with freeze dry, this thing can pretty much sweep. Unaware also makes attempts at countering it useless, but you must be careful cause water immunities are not that uncommon right now thanks to clodsire.
Annihilape @ Leftovers
Ability: Vital Spirit
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rage Fist
- Stealth Rock
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
Yes you read right. Annihilape, as a defensive pokemon that runs lefties and bulk up. Happens that this pokemon, besides learning stealth rock, has a move called rage first which increases it's power everytime this pokemon is hit. Basically, if you tank a lot, you get a lot stronger. Drain punch also helps you last longer and it's overall a good set, perhaps a bit niche but with tera poison aswell you can do wonders by tanking. Be careful with special attackers however.
Tauros-Paldea-Fire @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Body Press
- Raging Bull
- Bulk Up
And
Tauros-Paldea-Water @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Body Press
- Raging Bull
- Bulk Up
With intimidate and bulk up, this pokemons can turn into great physical walls, having will o wisp as coverage for tauros paldea fire and aqua jet for water, giving a way to shut down physical attackers like palafin who might try to switch in on it and tauros paldea water a way to finish low hp mons. They also have the move raging bull which is amazing right now, since many teams are running screens and this move is a 90bp normal type move that destroys them. Overall solid pokemon, they can also run earthquake and close combat if you ever want to try an offensive set with them and protect cud shew with a berry can prove itself to be quite viable aswell. They will get better when Flutter Mane vanishes.
Besides this, there are some pokemon here and there but not as solid. Iron threads is amazing but I just don't think it's a solid defensive pokemon right now.
Pex is fine aswell but It just doesnt fit the meta very well in my opinion right now... great palafin counter tho, there are just better mons.
 
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Alright. This is gonna be long so I might aswell get to it.
This gen lacks walls, what we were used to was A LOT of them, but to be real, there are still many pokemon who can be used as such, and many new ones introduced this gen.
I'm gonna make a quick list of the mons I found the most threatning as walls and their possible sets.
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Mach Punch
- Spore
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast
This Pokemon is amazing at dealing with palafin, rain teams while tricking pelippers into believing they have a free ko with tera electric and even the donphans who threaten everything so much. It can spread spore to basically stop would be checks and it regenerates a lot of the damage it takes with the poison heal ability, sadly, it is a bit slow and raw stats aren't the best, but it gets the job done really well and it's one of the best walls in the tier right now. Tera blast with tera electric is a set I really like to run, but bullet seed is also amazing, and you can even run offensive sets with the dice and technician.
Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog
- Iron Head
What an amazing pokemon, enough to hold itself brave in this HO meta. It is a good physical wall that punishes any agression wiht rocky helmet, it's amazing in screens teams since it ends opposing screens aswell and it has u turn to pivot out, together with roost, which even nerfed, serves enough porpose for it to be good. It can also run something like safety goggles since spore is so common right now, countering like this, breloom, amoongus and other spore users. It can also run body press but flutter mane right now would use this as a free setup sooo...
Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Toxic
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
Amazing pokemon that you can have a regenerator pokemon with great typing, toxic that so many pokemon lost access to and access to spore can be found. Together with a rocky helmet, physical problems are no more. This one is pretty clear on why it is good.
Blissey @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
As of right now it gives a free setup to calm mind flutter mane, but once that thing is banned, it will be the good old reliable wall we all know. Just not as good and with more competition now, since it lost toxic and has to be stuck on status like thunder wave now.
Alomomola
As a regenerator mon with an incredible hp stat, with it's 80 def it can work as a wall to many pokemon, passing wishes around. Definitely a pokemon you should try if you want a wish passer.
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
Or
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
It's movepool took a big hit, it can no longer pain split, toxic or defog, however, it still has a good movepool with moves like will o wisp or thunder wave for status. Volt switch for pivoting and it's overall an amazing pokemon, being an electric type that counters the donphans. I still believe the trick set is good, specially since you can shut down a would be wall, and it's always risking a 50/50 to switch into something that counters hydro or something that counters volt switch. The defensive set can run shadow ball instead of foul play or even thunder wave aswell, but I just feel like foul play can bring more value. You can also run special defensive, I just prefer physical because of pokemon like palafin.
Grimmsnarl @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Careful Nature
- Parting Shot
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Spirit Break
This pokemon is amazing in this meta, although it is destroyed by gholdengo, it sets up screens with priority so it always takes half damage, and can parting shot after screens to a pokemon that will take absolute no damage. Pair this with something like cyclizar to pass a substitute to a pokemon like dragonite and you will have a god in your hands, that takes 4 times less damage from everything. Screens right now are really good, since defog is so hard to find, so I really believe in this pokemon. Spirit break is just to make sure it still has an attack that also lowers spa, but false surrender wouldn't be bad either.
Gholdengo @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Recover
Or
Gholdengo @ Light Clay
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave
Being the best screen users in the tier, making removing screens impossible and spreading thunder wave, makes this pokemon incredible. Without investment it's spa is an absolute menace and after screens you easily survive things like a crunch from chien-pao for an easy ko. The other set I inspired myself in melmetal, which although has no toxic, gains recover on a better typing, and with make it rain and shadow ball, nothing likes to switch in on it. You can of course choose to run special defense but I find physical much better.
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Roost
- Thunder Wave
- Fire Punch
This pokemon has a crazy movepool and with multiscale it can handle a lot of things that could normally destroy it. Espeed gives it a good revenge kill option, thunder wave cripples many pokemon and roost is amazing to try to look for a full para. Fire punch exists so that gholdengo and corviknight don't wall it. You can also run earthquake or ice coverage if you feel like the moveset could be better. Physical defense is also fine, but personally, I kinda prefer to use the offensive dragon dance set with shed tail cyclizar, since multiscale works behind the sub.
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Earthquake
Or
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Body Press
- Amnesia
- Recover
Clodsire is an amazing pokemon, that completely counters palafin, one of the strongest pokemon right now. Some are starting to run ice punch purely to be able to touch this thing, in which case if people do, stop using tera flying and choose smt that's neutral against throwards them and ground. It's really cool to see a pokemon that can setup spikes, toxic, stealth rock and have an amazing typing and ability, also being able to run unaware with a curse and amnesia strategy. I personally prefer this to boost to the maximum but you can also choose something like stockpile.
Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Headlong Rush
- Stealth Rock
- Bulk Up
Threatned by palafin, tera grass should be the best option for it. It can stealth rock for the team and then run a bulk up set with body press, having headlong rush as amazing cover. This one is pretty obvious on why it's good, the pokemon itself is amazing.
Houndstone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Last Respects
- Play Rough
- Psychic Fangs
- Stomping Tantrum
Or
Houndstone @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Last Respects
- Will-O-Wisp
- Body Press
- Yawn
I included the scarf variation because of fluffy, since with last respects, until the move is banned, is one of the best cleaners late game. And this solves problems like the many physical priorities and having to run ttar/hippo. Fluffy defensive houndstone is insane. With body press it deals a good amount of damage and threatens chien pao on switch in, yawn forces opponent to switch or gets the pokemon asleep while you gain lefties recovery and will o wisp shuts down physical attackers. Last respects on it is pretty straight foward.
Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake
It can run stealth rock, spikes, whirlwind for the many present substitutes and even memento. This pokemon is amazing for hazard stacking teams and it's stats allow him to tank pretty well. More of a hazard setter, but eq and body press can put in a good amount of work, and before flutter mane is banned, heavy slam is a REALLY good option.
Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Body Press
- Protect
Seen as a worst Ting-Lu, this pokemon is actually pretty amazing. You can run a defensive set with leech seed and protect to chip down any switch in, having body press and knock off in the movepool aswell to solve ghost types. It can also learn foul play so it's definitely an option over knock off if physical ghost types like dragon dance dragapult start showing up.
Toedscruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Energy Ball
- Earth Power
- Rapid Spin
An amazing pokemon that counters the donphans and gholdengo, rapid spins, spores ignoring abilities and has overall a great movepool with sludge bomb, dazzling gleam, flash cannon and Knock Off. All of this are options depending on what you are building around, and it can take pretty well on special attackers.
Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Liquidation
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
This pokemon is AMAZING. Having such a good hp stat, it can curse late game and win pretty much by doing nothing. Special grass types aren't really a thing right now, and neither are electric, so unless there is a special iron bundle running around with freeze dry, this thing can pretty much sweep. Unaware also makes attempts at countering it useless, but you must be careful cause water immunities are not that uncommon right now thanks to clodsire.
Annihilape @ Leftovers
Ability: Vital Spirit
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rage Fist
- Stealth Rock
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
Yes you read right. Annihilape, as a defensive pokemon that runs lefties and bulk up. Happens that this pokemon, besides learning stealth rock, has a move called rage first which increases it's power everytime this pokemon is hit. Basically, if you tank a lot, you get a lot stronger. Drain punch also helps you last longer and it's overall a good set, perhaps a bit niche but with tera poison aswell you can do wonders by tanking. Be careful with special attackers however.
Tauros-Paldea-Fire @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Body Press
- Raging Bull
- Bulk Up
And
Tauros-Paldea-Water @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Body Press
- Raging Bull
- Bulk Up
With intimidate and bulk up, this pokemons can turn into great physical walls, having will o wisp as coverage for tauros paldea fire and aqua jet for water, giving a way to shut down physical attackers like palafin who might try to switch in on it and tauros paldea water a way to finish low hp mons. They also have the move raging bull which is amazing right now, since many teams are running screens and this move is a 90bp normal type move that destroys them. Overall solid pokemon, they can also run earthquake and close combat if you ever want to try an offensive set with them and protect cud shew with a berry can prove itself to be quite viable aswell. They will get better when Flutter Mane vanishes.
Besides this, there are some pokemon here and there but not as solid. Iron threads is amazing but I just don't think it's a solid defensive pokemon right now.
I just wanted to add a mon isn't on this list: Garganacl

Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Salt Cure

Salt Cure is such an incredible move. Not only does it let garg 1v1 things it really shouldn't (e.g. clod & corv), it punishes the mons that love switching in on garg the hardest. This set does get shut down by most physical setup mons with recovery and iron bundle is annoying, but the sheer amount of utility and defensive oppression it brings to a team are not to be overlooked
 
I just wanted to add a mon isn't on this list: Garganacl

Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Salt Cure

Salt Cure is such an incredible move. Not only does it let garg 1v1 things it really shouldn't (e.g. clod & corv), it punishes the mons that love switching in on garg the hardest. This set does get shut down by most physical setup mons with recovery and iron bundle is annoying, but the sheer amount of utility and defensive oppression it brings to a team are not to be overlooked
Being real I think the only reason I didn't even consider that pokemon is because of how much I hate him and it's design. It's a pokemon that can chip down other pokemon rly well, and to be honest a set using protect salt cure is probable really good aswell if you have another stealth rock mon since it keeps chipping down and also gets lefties recovery
 
Btw another good set for breloom would be this:
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spore
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
Loses to dragapult and ghost types with sub but if there are neither it dominates
 
Please do something about shed tail. Finding another team using flutter mane, chien-pao and dragonite with orthworm and cyclizar for shed tail passing is gonna drive me crazy lmao
 
i plan on making a more detailed post later. But a great poke in this meta is rocky helm chomp. It helps with alot of flip and volt turn shenanigans
 
I have tried out and fought teams using Shed Tail Orthworm and honestly speaking I dont think the move itself is a problem. The problem with the move comes with Cyclizar's particular kit. 121 Speed, Regenerator, Usable Scarf set outside of it. While I do think we should ban the move over banning the Pokemon, I do want to make the distinction for any discussion on said move.
 
Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Body Press
- Protect
Seen as a worst Ting-Lu, this pokemon is actually pretty amazing. You can run a defensive set with leech seed and protect to chip down any switch in, having body press and knock off in the movepool aswell to solve ghost types. It can also learn foul play so it's definitely an option over knock off if physical ghost types like dragon dance dragapult start showing up.
Wo-Chien in particular strikes me as something that's not necessarily that great now in these HO-focused early days, but is gonna become stellar as time goes on. I think being a good Leech Seed user in this game where recovery is limited and Ferrothorn is gone is invaluable in its own way.
 
Wo-Chien in particular strikes me as something that's not necessarily that great now in these HO-focused early days, but is gonna become stellar as time goes on. I think being a good Leech Seed user in this game where recovery is limited and Ferrothorn is gone is invaluable in its own way.
Tbh a mon like that is dondozo, but right now it can literally win games alone purely by a bad matchup for the opponent. It's something that if u don't have smt that checks, you auto lose. Probably one of the most broken pokemons out rn, even more than stuff like roaring moon in my opinion.
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Is Punching Glove bad implemented in Pokémon Showdown??? In Team Builder says 1.1 (10%) but in a VGC video says 1.5 (50%) increase.. Bassically a free band + protecting pads on punching moves (Jet Punch wink wink)..
Check this following pictures pls
View attachment 467204View attachment 467208

Serebii link says the same buff https://www.serebii.net/itemdex/punchingglove.shtml
If this is true, Melmetal’s definitely catching a ban if/when it comes back. Not having to choose between Band and Protective Pads means it can just click Double Iron Bash on literally anything and obtain results.
 
If this is true, Melmetal’s definitely catching a ban if/when it comes back. Not having to choose between Band and Protective Pads means it can just click Double Iron Bash on literally anything and obtain results.
Or a ban in the item, since I think everything would be op with it, imagine band+protective pads but you can switch moves, all mons would run it and it would be op
 
Or a ban in the item, since I think everything would be op with it, imagine band+protective pads but you can switch moves, all mons would run it and it would be op
No, take into account it only boosts punching Moves. Not many Mons have that many punching Mons, Melmetal really is different from something like Weavile in this regard.
 
No, take into account it only boosts punching Moves. Not many Mons have that many punching Mons, Melmetal really is different from something like Weavile in this regard.
Sure, tell me which pokemon here wouldn't be op if they could run punching glove, they all learn drain punch. Perhaps gallade wouldn't use it, but annihilape, iron hands, hawlucha, crabominable could even be op outside of tr, breloom you can argue it would prefer a dice but idk, iron valiant would love for physical sets aswell since why would you choose to run a 1 time item then, medicham stats are 410 so true it wouldn't be op, but passimian would.
1668949916293.png

This is only thinking about 1 specific move. Elemental punches, mach punch, bullet punch (Imagine scizor with technician bullet punch with this item lmao), and many others can be a threat. Pokemon right now like palafin would be beyond broken. Focus punch would be incredible on sub mons, hell you could even run sub iron hands with focus punch and demolish the tier. Dragonite who already is op rn with the shed tail would become a major threat with elemental punches, iron thorns could use this item to demolish, just imagine the mons who aren't even in yet like urshifu, ursaluna, hoopa. Iron fist ability pokemon like pawmot and crabominable multiplying the effect. It's far too powerful and being real, if it really is a 1.5 boost, ban it.
 
Is Punching Glove bad implemented in Pokémon Showdown??? In Team Builder says 1.1 (10%) but in a VGC video says 1.5 (50%) increase.. Bassically a free band + protecting pads on punching moves (Jet Punch wink wink)..
Check this following pictures pls
View attachment 467204View attachment 467208

Serebii link says the same buff https://www.serebii.net/itemdex/punchingglove.shtml
Its an Iron Fist Boost (20%) and its not stackable, meaning iron fist mons do not benefit fo this item
 

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