Just don't get hit tbh. No dodge button? Skill issue tbh tbh
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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The same could be said about dire claw, you could just switch into your steel type or Garg if you don't want to deal with dire claw hax.
yes, sorry, my mistake, i should have known that a replay that says this is public
didn't know that, which is the reason i asked. still, this is anecdotal, no matter how high-profile the match is or how bad a look this is for dire claw
(and for the record, i believe dire claw's broken as shit and is yet another point in the favor of cloakchads. i really don't know what game freak was thinking when they designed that move. actually, scratch that, i know exactly what game freak was thinking and it's the same thing they're always thinking: absolutely fuckall)
ill double you in that actually, why not covert cloak bro?
i mean if ur dragapult is spamming u-turn and u get para'ed by zapdos u shouldve been more careful. Sure but u can play around zapdos static. You can use pads if you really dislike being para'ed by generally u can predict zapdos coming in and hit it hard with smth else
Hate Dire Claw? Just bring in a Steel-type and skill issue if you predicted wrong and get smacked by Close Combat or Tera Ground Tera Blast /s
Convert cloak Lando, the set it needed to beat Tusk in usage.
lando is one of those mons that you can slap virtually any item on and have it work so i can actually see cloak lando cooking
anything that reduces counterplay to a specific item & not considered building/play is degenerate
extrapolate from this what you will
extrapolate from this what you will
The rng is the factor that annoys people because it doesn't have to do with the skill of either of the players, during the match itself or teambuilding. If static/flame body were something like "if you hit this mon with a SE move or do more than 60% in one hit then you get the status 100%" That would be way better for everyone because it would give the user a more powerful and consistent tool to deal with many things while the attacker could plan and play around that or decide what to do or not based on the positioning, basically the players choices actually will matter. With how it works now it even invites for more hax elements by running stuff like crash (miss and flinch chances) over spinner.
This is why Hazards are broken (at least Spikes are).
I've seen some teams resort to using Pokemon like Scyther as their defogger. The hazard epidemic seems to be getting worse and worse, though I'm not sure why its worse than last gen. HDB is still as good as ever + harder to remove because of less Knock Users. Guess its largely the lack of hazard removers, but a lot of teams also aren't running 3+ HDB users from what I've seen.
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is it me or are there only 3 topics of discussion in this thread
- people talking about rng
- people talking about something that was broken/is broken/was banned
- people talking about garchomp in uu
on another hand covert cloak lando actually sounds interesting
Landorus-Therian @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Stone Edge
- idk
hey look with covert cloak you can also check garganacl too
Earthquake for STAB, Taunt to mess with Garganacl, Stone Edge to hit possible tera flying Sneasler
180 speed evs allow you to outspeed max speed breloom, if you only care about adamant breloom then go with 88 speed evs, if you don't care about breloom at all then just 4 speed evs will allow you to oustpeed all the base 50 speed mons (azumarill, kingambit, iron hands, ursaluna)
just to be clear i made this in like 15 mins
- people talking about rng
- people talking about something that was broken/is broken/was banned
- people talking about garchomp in uu
on another hand covert cloak lando actually sounds interesting
Landorus-Therian @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Stone Edge
- idk
hey look with covert cloak you can also check garganacl too
Earthquake for STAB, Taunt to mess with Garganacl, Stone Edge to hit possible tera flying Sneasler
180 speed evs allow you to outspeed max speed breloom, if you only care about adamant breloom then go with 88 speed evs, if you don't care about breloom at all then just 4 speed evs will allow you to oustpeed all the base 50 speed mons (azumarill, kingambit, iron hands, ursaluna)
(-1 is sneasler after intimidate, +1 is sneasler after 1 swords dance and intimidate)
-1 252+ Atk Sneasler Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Landorus-Therian: 80-95 (20.9 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+1 252+ Atk Sneasler Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Landorus-Therian: 180-212 (47.2 - 55.6%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Sneasler Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Landorus-Therian: 65-77 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO
+1 252+ Atk Sneasler Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Landorus-Therian: 147-174 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and in return lando is almost always going to ohko sneasler
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Sneasler: 450-530 (144.6 - 170.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Sneasler: 300-354 (96.4 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Sneasler Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Landorus-Therian: 80-95 (20.9 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+1 252+ Atk Sneasler Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Landorus-Therian: 180-212 (47.2 - 55.6%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Sneasler Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Landorus-Therian: 65-77 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO
+1 252+ Atk Sneasler Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Landorus-Therian: 147-174 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and in return lando is almost always going to ohko sneasler
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Sneasler: 450-530 (144.6 - 170.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Sneasler: 300-354 (96.4 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Landorus-Therian: 40-48 (10.4 - 12.5%) -- possible 8HKO
this one doesn't even consider intimidate btw
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
this one doesn't even consider intimidate btw
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
It’s mainly that spikes finally have multiple users that aren’t passive/exploitable. Previously your choices were ferrothorn (who was mostly relegated to balance/stall) and mew (pretty much only ever seen as a suicide lead if it carried spikes). Having so many spikes setters that are actually good makes it way easier to keep them up compared to before.
This does low-key prove how problematic and game changing Tera is. In a bad lead matchup? Just change ur type and OHKO them instead. Lmao like how do you "skillfully" predict turn 1 Tera?
If Sneasler couldn't Tera, even under Terrain it was gonna take a shit load from EQ, making it much easier for a full health Pult in the back to revenge kill it, potential hax aside.
The madness of Tera is so normalized people don't even think about how insane that shit is.
Dire Claw is super funny though, no real place in a truly competitive metagame but its so funny otherwise.
It's interesting and I've considered it, but Leftovers just seems like a better item. You're only taking 6% chip each turn from Salt Cure and can pivot out with U-Turn, you'll heal on the turns you're not cured, and it's going to have a greater impact in more games. It is nice for Sneasler, but I feel like it'll get worn down pretty fast and struggle against the Air Balloon and Choice Band variants. As for the speed, I don't think Breloom is relevant enough to worry about, and this set still gets walled by Breloom so just go very bulky so it can last longer. I always love finding new Covert Cloak users, it's just tough to justify on most Pokemon
i went from denial all the way to acceptance in like two days. i still think garchomp was and is obscenely underrated, i still think it's very good in OU even if it drops and i still think it's going to return to OU relatively soon. you can't say it's bad or worse than it was last gen when GF gave this thing spikes as well as a new mechanic it makes wonderful use of. it may drop soon but this is far from the end of garchomp's reign of terror
I'm usually happy if they burn it first turn. They lost their surprise element and now I can click moves more safely. If I'm worried about turn 1 tera, then I'll make the safe play or some midground and really exploit them. If I lose to a turn 1 tera, then that's just a team issue; a defensive tera should handle pretty much anything well on a good team. As for predicting tera in general, I feel like with enough meta understanding, you can have a sense for when they're likely to go for it. Yes, a random tera can win games, but so do random Z-moves or just random movesets in general. I'm not pro- or anti-tera, either way would be fine for me, but this isn't the reason why it's problematic imo
Normally I'd agree, but outside of the Dire Claw Hax, it was clear that that turn 1 Tera def put the opponent in a bind that they were in an awkward spot to come out.
This replay doesn't show anything. EQ under Terrain doesn't come close to KOing, and if he hadn't Tera'd, Gambit's Sucker Punch & Dragapult's U-Turn would have been resisted. Finch should have used DDarts when he had Pult out. Finch also had Grass Knot for Sneaseler on his Lando-T, but couldn't use it cuz of Dire Claw Hax.
The only thing Tera Influenced was the other guy fishing for Hax with Dire Claw since he likely thought Lando-T didn't have GKnot.
Chomp will find its niche in due time, it is still good at several things but not exceptional or unrivaled in these roles. The bulk, power, speed, typing, moves, and ability are just enough to keep it viable and potent on the right team.
In the meantime, be happy Dragonite became a top threat! Gen 8 Chomp walked so that Gen 9 DNite could run at an extreme speed
this. it'll make a comeback soon, it's just there's no telling how soon. all i know is that garchomp will inevitably return to OU one day, we just have to wait and see how and when it does
covert cloak on defensive pokemon unironically makes them really good against sneasler but it also means you have to play very carefully around knock off and trick crippling your sneasler check and if you don't run CC then your options of dealing with it become limited to gholdengo, tera ghost/poison garganacl and maybe corviknight. yeah not really feeling this
As one of the few viable forms of hazard control, it will always be valuable for that reason. With that being said, I agree that corv typically just sits on the field in this meta and doesn't dish out much damage. It can check key threats like Sneasler and Enamorus which few can, but it's not a reliable counter to them either. Right now I wouldn't say it's top 10 in OU, but it's close for sure
The thing is that not everyone uses Garg or Sneasler, and not all Sneaslers use dire claw. Other common secondary effects like spirit break, mystical fire or para don't matter or not even affect them so is far from being optimal, similar to having to run a water absorb mon because of Vish (except that those two aren't used as much). Also, it doesn't help that convert Gholdengo loses to curse + tera water garg anyway.
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