The comparation was made because you mentioned the other setters first. The issue is that without gg Rilla is a mediocre mon. Indeede and Pincurchin are mediocre too, but they have more flexibility in teambuilding. You mention ground weak pokemon but with ballon, tera and all the new viable ground inmunities makes it kinda meh, especially when Ursa and Great Tusk with HR doesn't care about grassy terrain. Psychic terrain is the best terrain rn but isn't that great either, but blocking Gambit's sucker punch or any other priority is more valuable than grassy terrain and actually can see Sneasler with Indeedee. And again, Indeedee and Pincurchin have better synergies but they aren't meta defining teams. You can still use Rilla + Sneasler, but it seems like you would get better results with another way to trigger unburden.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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Ok guys I played a lot these days in custom game (I want to s/o about that my bros Vert and procorphish and also njnp bc he made a solid community where I was able to find people to test in a home meta) so I already had solid ideas to use today in the SV high Ladder (I was able to climb easily today the ladder with the new mons etc in the 1950-2000 range) and I wanted to share with you my ideas and thoughts about the metagame:
Regieleki needs to be BANNED asap. I don't think I need to explain that this pokemon will always scare your opponent no matter what because your opponent will need to preserve his tera to check this in a defensive way. But right now the best way to check this mon is using heavy offense with things like Baxcalibur, Dragonite (Espeed spam), priority or Troom strategy that thanks to magearna are viable now. The thing is that this mon is a negative centralizing presence for the metagame. When your opponent will waste his tera to check this mon he will have new holes in his teams and will lose from other centralizing HO threats probably. This is the first mon that should go OUT rn.
Once regieleki gets banned I can easily see this mon getting banned too as well. The thing is that there are really few ways to check Magearna properly. Magearna most broken set right now is the weakness policy one with stored power. We also have past experience of this Magearna set centralizing the metagame and there are not a lot of checks. We can try to use stuff like Skeledirge or Gholdengo but they get farmed so easily in this new heavy offense metagame so there is not a lot of space to defensive checks. Since you don't find a lot magearna with steel move you can try to use salt cure garganacl but it's not this great defensive check.
Magearna in this meta gains its BROKEN PEAK with Trick Room Epack Fleur Cannon moveset, opening the field to Ursaluna that will 100% get at least 1 or 2 kill. Ursaluna will never be a dead mon in your team, but I'll talk about Ursaluna later.
& 
It's required as a premise that currently I find Zamazenta-Regular more broken than Zamazenta-Crowned. You can basically use a choice band moveset or an iron defense one to open holes in EVERY team. Idk if it's only me but I find Zamazenta-Regular a better wallbreaker (at least now, in the current state of the meta) than Chien pao or Urshifu. It has basically a really high speed and a solid attack to be marked as a top tier wallbreaker in current metagame. Ngl I've not used a lot chien pao or shifu just bc I had the feeling that zamazenta was better for this role and because it fits better in current meta (let's not forget that this mon has a free +1 in def and can check a bit ursaluna too...). It's not this easy to revengekill too (I'd avoid using Valiant or mons like that because most of scarfers/energy booster mons/mons that can outspeed zamazenta make your team weaker to regieleki). Zamazenta-Crowned is maybe less broken than regular Zamazenta but I don't appreciate how brainless can be in more fat builds (can't be tricked). I don't think we really need these mons for a healthy meta development.
Ursaluna probably is one of the most centralizing mons of the ones released because as I've already said it is a godlike team mate of Magearna. But before suspecting or banning this one I'd like to see magearna banned first because probably Ursaluna is this broken because of Magearna. Without Magearna is still a super solid and godlike mon, but I'd like to see if the meta can handle it. Magearna can set up trick room and with its bulk it can survive almost every hit to bring in safely with fleurcannon+epack ursaluna but I find hard doing the same thing with other mons. Maybe Slowking-Galar can do that too as well but I can't see right now Slowking-Galar as a mon that can survive a lot in a meta full of threats. I'd like to see this thing suspected at least, but after Mage, Eleki and Zama. I think that without magearna is still really good, but maybe less broken. Idk we need to see that honestly...
Ngl these mons are great but at least in current meta they don't centralize as the above threats, but if some of the mons like eleki, mage etc get banned I can see them as top tier threats. For now I don't think they are broken but surely good.
ALSO LAST POINT OF MY WOT.
TERASTALLIZATION:
I think in this current meta we can see better the side effects of the tera. All the broken mons of this new SV meta are godlike abusers of tera. There will be a time in which the tera will be suspect tested again or no? (I'm not obv asking for a ban, I'm fine with Tera in the tier but I'm fine too without Tera)
I hope in some tiering action before WCOP to have a competitive and healthy meta.
Regieleki needs to be BANNED asap. I don't think I need to explain that this pokemon will always scare your opponent no matter what because your opponent will need to preserve his tera to check this in a defensive way. But right now the best way to check this mon is using heavy offense with things like Baxcalibur, Dragonite (Espeed spam), priority or Troom strategy that thanks to magearna are viable now. The thing is that this mon is a negative centralizing presence for the metagame. When your opponent will waste his tera to check this mon he will have new holes in his teams and will lose from other centralizing HO threats probably. This is the first mon that should go OUT rn.
Once regieleki gets banned I can easily see this mon getting banned too as well. The thing is that there are really few ways to check Magearna properly. Magearna most broken set right now is the weakness policy one with stored power. We also have past experience of this Magearna set centralizing the metagame and there are not a lot of checks. We can try to use stuff like Skeledirge or Gholdengo but they get farmed so easily in this new heavy offense metagame so there is not a lot of space to defensive checks. Since you don't find a lot magearna with steel move you can try to use salt cure garganacl but it's not this great defensive check.
Magearna in this meta gains its BROKEN PEAK with Trick Room Epack Fleur Cannon moveset, opening the field to Ursaluna that will 100% get at least 1 or 2 kill. Ursaluna will never be a dead mon in your team, but I'll talk about Ursaluna later.
& It's required as a premise that currently I find Zamazenta-Regular more broken than Zamazenta-Crowned. You can basically use a choice band moveset or an iron defense one to open holes in EVERY team. Idk if it's only me but I find Zamazenta-Regular a better wallbreaker (at least now, in the current state of the meta) than Chien pao or Urshifu. It has basically a really high speed and a solid attack to be marked as a top tier wallbreaker in current metagame. Ngl I've not used a lot chien pao or shifu just bc I had the feeling that zamazenta was better for this role and because it fits better in current meta (let's not forget that this mon has a free +1 in def and can check a bit ursaluna too...). It's not this easy to revengekill too (I'd avoid using Valiant or mons like that because most of scarfers/energy booster mons/mons that can outspeed zamazenta make your team weaker to regieleki). Zamazenta-Crowned is maybe less broken than regular Zamazenta but I don't appreciate how brainless can be in more fat builds (can't be tricked). I don't think we really need these mons for a healthy meta development.
Ursaluna probably is one of the most centralizing mons of the ones released because as I've already said it is a godlike team mate of Magearna. But before suspecting or banning this one I'd like to see magearna banned first because probably Ursaluna is this broken because of Magearna. Without Magearna is still a super solid and godlike mon, but I'd like to see if the meta can handle it. Magearna can set up trick room and with its bulk it can survive almost every hit to bring in safely with fleurcannon+epack ursaluna but I find hard doing the same thing with other mons. Maybe Slowking-Galar can do that too as well but I can't see right now Slowking-Galar as a mon that can survive a lot in a meta full of threats. I'd like to see this thing suspected at least, but after Mage, Eleki and Zama. I think that without magearna is still really good, but maybe less broken. Idk we need to see that honestly...
Ngl these mons are great but at least in current meta they don't centralize as the above threats, but if some of the mons like eleki, mage etc get banned I can see them as top tier threats. For now I don't think they are broken but surely good.
ALSO LAST POINT OF MY WOT.
TERASTALLIZATION:
I think in this current meta we can see better the side effects of the tera. All the broken mons of this new SV meta are godlike abusers of tera. There will be a time in which the tera will be suspect tested again or no? (I'm not obv asking for a ban, I'm fine with Tera in the tier but I'm fine too without Tera)
I hope in some tiering action before WCOP to have a competitive and healthy meta.
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that is not what sleep clause is.
Yes, the mod doesn't allow to get more than one Pokémon put to sleep from your rival, you still can make your own Pokémon sleep though.
That is on cartridge, on Smogon there is a mod that actually prevents sleep.
Sleep Clause as it's implemented on Showdown simply makes the act of putting an opponents to sleep fail if a Pokemon on their team is already asleep. So Dire Claw does not bypass Sleep Clause.
If Tera is suspected once again after some clearly broken mons have been banned, I have to say that I don't think Tera Preview would solve anything. The main thing it would do is allow your opponent to more easily outplay your defensive use of Terastal, which could stop some sweeps but also lead to more one-side matches since your opponent has more information about your options to stop his/her sweep.
Zamazenta-* feels like a non-factor to me, but I've only played a few games on the mid part of the ladder. Maybe with more games at a higher level I'll see what the deal is. BUT it is annoying that an otherwise defensive/ironpress Pokemon is so damn fast.
Regieleki, Magearna, and Chien Pao need to be gone yesterday though
Regieleki, Magearna, and Chien Pao need to be gone yesterday though
This thing shouldn't of been released onto the world of OU again. This thing does the EXACT same thing it did before, one Shift Gear, one Calm Mind, GG. It has got to go. Regieleki is definitely a threat, but I consider Mag way worse. Both Regieleki and Magearna are S+ tier mons rn, but the difference is that Mag doesn't even need Tera, in fact I see no reason to tera when Steel/Fairy is pretty much the best typing in the game. This means you can use a CM/Shift Gear Mag alongside something like a Tera Normal D-Nite/Tera Ice Regieleki and not feel like Mag is playing second fiddle without tera, but I think everyone has said this so let me move onto something else.
This thing is shockingly good. Rock Head Flare Blitz + Head Smash hurts like a steamtrain, and as a dedicated tera user, it doesn't have to be weighed down by its terrible defensive typing. Along with access to E-Speed so you can pull off Tera Normal shenanigans, Close Combat, Wild Charge and Psychic Fangs for good coverage, as Wild Charge with Rock Head has no recoil so its a real option, and two other really good abilities in Intimidate and Flash Fire, Arcanine-Hisui may actually have what it takes to stay viable in OU.
Same with this guy. Choice Banded Sharpness Razor Shell+Ceaseless Edge hits incredibly hard. Priority from Aqua Jet and Sucker Punch is great, along with Knock Off for utility, Drill Run, X-Scissor, which with Sharpness becomes Megahorn with perfect accuracy, and Sacred Sword, which with Sharpness is stronger than Close Combat with no stat drops. Another mon that might surprisingly keep good viability in OU as a hard-hitting spikes setter. I was not a Samurott believer before, but I am now.
Bulk + typing invalidate many of the offensive checks (other broken mons) that interrupt the (also dumb) base form and bulk + tera lets the Body Press set wincon immediately. The 'problem' is that this thing is not an Ice type without resists, setup moves, or physical STAB; it's about as far from Kyurem-B as it gets
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Lilligant is kinda dumb lowkey
The speed is a huge factor though, if this had base 80 I could see it dropping to UUBL but it isn't the case.
i feel like the broken pokemon are for sure chien pao... tera dark crunch still feels unwallable besides zama and then with future port it just gets chucked. Tera dark also removes its rock weakness so it feels impossible to wear down. Ice spinner/crash lets it just bypass great tusk esp phys def ones and crunch can even do a number on it esp with the pokemon its tasked to deal with
2nd pokemon on my list is magearna. It can CM ID up to just be unbreakable, shift gear CM on screens with WP to become unstoppable, or specs can just nuke shit esp with pivot support. Like CM ID can setup and with tera can become unstoppable at +2.. like u try to use chomp to stop it? well it tera water and now it takes minimal damage and it also CM's in your face
Regieleki feels like... tera ice removes ground resist and with boots it can just become a pivot that is unstoppable. specs feels overkill but yeah ... 50/50 always and no switch besides clodsire and blissey feel safe and yeah... fastest mon at base 200 outspeeding even some scarfers. yeah this thing is not fair....
Ursaluna is gonna be so overhyped once magearna is gone... magearna is just such a great trick room setter and abuser that once its gone ursaluna is prob gonna be better on trick room as in feeling fairer while guts outside of it will feel mid
2nd pokemon on my list is magearna. It can CM ID up to just be unbreakable, shift gear CM on screens with WP to become unstoppable, or specs can just nuke shit esp with pivot support. Like CM ID can setup and with tera can become unstoppable at +2.. like u try to use chomp to stop it? well it tera water and now it takes minimal damage and it also CM's in your face
Regieleki feels like... tera ice removes ground resist and with boots it can just become a pivot that is unstoppable. specs feels overkill but yeah ... 50/50 always and no switch besides clodsire and blissey feel safe and yeah... fastest mon at base 200 outspeeding even some scarfers. yeah this thing is not fair....
Ursaluna is gonna be so overhyped once magearna is gone... magearna is just such a great trick room setter and abuser that once its gone ursaluna is prob gonna be better on trick room as in feeling fairer while guts outside of it will feel mid
I'm going to be very sad if Sneasler gets banned because of a signature move I wasn't going to run. Not that there's much to be done about it since move bans are significantly harder arguments than mon bans, but all this talk before made it look like a really cool Unburden Glass sweeper for a typing and Mon line I'm a big fan of.
I can't win with Sneasel line moves this gen. Weavile lost the two moves that made it relevant and Sneasler potentially getting itself banned over a Signature that only exists to add Cheesing to the game
I can't win with Sneasel line moves this gen. Weavile lost the two moves that made it relevant and Sneasler potentially getting itself banned over a Signature that only exists to add Cheesing to the game
On the topic of Biggest Bear Trick Room...
hehe horsey (Glastrier) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Chilling Neigh
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Stomping Tantrum
- Close Combat
This guy exists. Lost HH because 1984 but he still has 145 attack, Moxie, and useful Ice stab that pairs with Ursaluna nicely. Very few teams can take the beating of one, basically 0 teams can take Glastrier's beating AND THEN have to fight an Ursaluna. Still not great and will fall off a cliff when Ursaluna or Mag inevitably gets banned but if you want to build full room consider the ice horse.
hehe horsey (Glastrier) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Chilling Neigh
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Stomping Tantrum
- Close Combat
This guy exists. Lost HH because 1984 but he still has 145 attack, Moxie, and useful Ice stab that pairs with Ursaluna nicely. Very few teams can take the beating of one, basically 0 teams can take Glastrier's beating AND THEN have to fight an Ursaluna. Still not great and will fall off a cliff when Ursaluna or Mag inevitably gets banned but if you want to build full room consider the ice horse.
i see this guy on tr teams and he happens to pair ridiculously good with chilly reception glowking. killing this thing with physical moves is a chore, tera nonwithstanding.
Basculegion with CB & Adaptability literally sweeps thanks to Wave Crash. You only need to find ways to deal with Water Absorb mons like Volcanion & Gastrodon.
also, I know this is an OU post, but I want to share how broken Basculegeon can be in Ubers & might actually be banned to AG?
Thanks to Kyogre, Basculegeon might outspeed every Ubers mon & just spam Wave Crash rain boosted & Last Respects.
Love this mon!
Why are you using Phantom Force? It’s either Ghost Tera Blast, Shadow Ball for weird mixed sets, or not Ghost STAB at all.
My predictions for how the new guys will fit into OU
Some highlights:
> Heatran - my goat. even without toxic or eruption i still believe it'll be top of the tier. i think tera really helps it (grass/flying), and just like older gens it has very few real counters thanks to magma storm.
> Ursaluna - let it be on record that i think this mon is crazy good and pastagirl said on multiple ocassions that it'd be UU and worse than terrak.
> Enamorus - this mon is weird bc she's mostly outclassed by Valiant but EP is huge, fairy/ground is insanely good coverage.
>Sneasler - dire claw is bs, maybe they'll ban it so it's forced to use pjab. either way i think it's still a healthy addition to the tier
>Hoopa-U - not a fan of gens 6 & 7 ou so it's cool to see him in a tier i kinda like. gonna be rly fun to use, big fan of this mon
> Goodra-H - feels like the sort of mon that will eventually have a niche once the meta settles. has some great resistances and huge spdef bulk.
>Moltres & Gapdos - finally some good Tusk switchins :)
>Regidrago - this guy with tera and some new tools might be pretty nice
| Rank | Mons |
| Uber | |
| S |   |
| High A |       |
| Low A |     |
| High B |   |
| Low B |    |
| C |        |
| D |       |
| UR | everyone else |
Some highlights:
> Heatran - my goat. even without toxic or eruption i still believe it'll be top of the tier. i think tera really helps it (grass/flying), and just like older gens it has very few real counters thanks to magma storm.
> Ursaluna - let it be on record that i think this mon is crazy good and pastagirl said on multiple ocassions that it'd be UU and worse than terrak.
> Enamorus - this mon is weird bc she's mostly outclassed by Valiant but EP is huge, fairy/ground is insanely good coverage.
>Sneasler - dire claw is bs, maybe they'll ban it so it's forced to use pjab. either way i think it's still a healthy addition to the tier
>Hoopa-U - not a fan of gens 6 & 7 ou so it's cool to see him in a tier i kinda like. gonna be rly fun to use, big fan of this mon
> Goodra-H - feels like the sort of mon that will eventually have a niche once the meta settles. has some great resistances and huge spdef bulk.
>Moltres & Gapdos - finally some good Tusk switchins :)
>Regidrago - this guy with tera and some new tools might be pretty nice
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