Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[Jonbot]

Cant wait to spam knock off w/ crawdaunt on hazard stack to stop the rash of stall teams that appear when scald returns

 

[Da Pizza Man]

I don’t think we should assume grass type for Okidogi, like at all. It’s legit just because it’s green, which is not a good indicator.

This pricesely. We have way too little information to go off of to making surefire assumptions on their typings in general. Plus, making assumptions on mons based on their color has historically never panned out well. Besides, Okidogi honestly comes across as more of a Fighting-type or a Dark-type.

 

[Empress Mobile]

lets be real about the Toxic Chain users:

Okidogi - Grass/Poison - Historically dogshit typing. If it has defensive stats pls explain why i would use this over Amoongus?
Munkidori - Water/Poison - Makes me think of Pex, but Pex shines bc of Regen and insane defensive stat distribution. In this meta with so many ground type threats if this thing has poor stats i dont see it being that big of a deal
Fezandipiti - Flying/Poison - Crobat typing, really struggles with Steel types. Flying means it basically has to use boots.

TBH guys i think these could end up being kinda mid. I think if you are really interested in spreading Toxic to your opponents team using Glimmora is likely still better.

Just my opinion!

I don't see the value of speculating viability of unreleased mons with unknown typing and stats in a currently non-existent metagame.

 

[Blue glass]

The Grass mon will be Ogerpon and green/ grass don't have the same strong relationship that purple and poison have.

 

[SDK03]

Even though Scald returning would suck, the abundance of good special attackers, Baxcallibur being a thing and Covert Cloak existing makes it a lot more bearable for this gen imo

 

[Mega Breloom]

I don't think the Toxic Chain mons will be used on stall that much as they are most likely offensive Pokemon that screw around with defensive cores through their ability, so it's not as big of a buff to stall as you think.

Game Freak doesn't give the same stat distribution to the same group of mons, most likely at least one of them will be good on fat teams, ideally the bird also could have roost and defog.

 

[Crimson Chris]

Honestly, I was just guessing typings based on colors and not saying anything concrete. Not really going over viability as we don't actually have their typings nor stats or movepool. (although afterwards I do agree that that Okidogi looks like he could also be fighting or dark. In fact we don't even know if they'll be poison type and just have an ability that can inflict poison)

Okidogi looks like he'll be a beefy phys attacker. Munkidori.....I have no clue lmao. Fezandipiti I can see being a fast special attacker. I am interested in these 3 mons and seeing what they bring to the table aside from Poison Touch on steroids.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Even though Scald returning would suck, the abundance of good special attackers, Baxcallibur being a thing and Covert Cloak existing makes it a lot more bearable for this gen imo

Nah, scald is bs doesn't matter what, easily one of the worst designed things in the game.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

So like...another great Ground type is confirmed coming back. I wonder how well Gliscor is gonna perform.

that's the killing blow against lando-t. having to contend with tusk hurt its usage badly enough, now it has to compete for teamspace with gliscor too. i wouldn't be surprised if people are calling it niche by the end of the gen

 

[Eeveeto]

that's the killing blow against lando-t. having to contend with tusk hurt its usage badly enough, now it has to compete for teamspace with gliscor too. i wouldn't be surprised if people are calling it niche by the end of the gen

Nah, I actually think that Gliscor with both Tera AND especially Spikes is going to be extremely broken and unhealthy. Other Spikes setters can be worn down either by direct damage, status or by knocking the item. Gliscor is immune to opposing Spikes (unless it Tera's too), doesn,t care if the Toxic Orb is knocked and will be recovering health every turn it doesn,t take damage. I find that extremely oppressive, especially if Gliscor manages to keep Knock Off and Toxic. And this is just Spikes set, cause it can very well be SD Sweeper with many random Teras.

 

[Mega Breloom]

that's the killing blow against lando-t. having to contend with tusk hurt its usage badly enough, now it has to compete for teamspace with gliscor too. i wouldn't be surprised if people are calling it niche by the end of the gen

All Lando needs is a good move from the tutors to be great again, just knock off would be enough. The lack of a spamable move is what is making Lando lose to Tusk since all it does now is u turn.

Nah, I actually think that Gliscor with both Tera AND especially Spikes is going to be extremely broken and unhealthy. Other Spikes setters can be worn down either by direct damage, status or by knocking the item. Gliscor is immune to opposing Spikes (unless it Tera's too), doesn,t care if the Toxic Orb is knocked and will be recovering health every turn it doesn,t take damage. I find that extremely oppressive, especially if Gliscor manages to keep Knock Off and Toxic. And this is just Spikes set, cause it can very well be SD Sweeper with many random Teras.

If Breloom still has toxic then it is very likely that Gliscor keeps toxic too, knock off probably will be a tutor move but idk, GF could surprise us and not adding it.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Nah, I actually think that Gliscor with both Tera AND especially Spikes is going to be extremely broken and unhealthy. Other Spikes setters can be worn down either by direct damage, status or by knocking the item. Gliscor is immune to opposing Spikes (unless it Tera's too), doesn,t care if the Toxic Orb is knocked and will be recovering health every turn it doesn,t take damage. I find that extremely oppressive, especially if Gliscor manages to keep Knock Off and Toxic. And this is just Spikes set, cause it can very well be SD Sweeper with many random Teras.

i was talking about calling lando niche, not gliscor. toxic and knock off are lost causes, but if gliscor keeps roost and gets spikes, lando may be done

 

[Eeveeto]

All Lando needs is a good move from the tutors to be great again, just knock off would be enough. The lack of a spamable move is what is making Lando lose to Tusk since all it does now is u turn.

If Breloom still has toxic then it is very likely that Gliscor keeps toxic too, knock off probably will be a tutor move but idk, GF could surprise us and not adding it.

In BDSP Gliscor actually lost Toxic and kept Knock Off, which is the better move of the 2. Breloom had Toxic in BDSP. Doesn,t mean they will follow the same, doesn,t even mean that Gliscor gets Spikes (though in PLA it had the move), but still is something to take note about.

i was talking about calling lando niche, not gliscor. toxic and knock off are lost causes, but if gliscor keeps roost and gets spikes, lando may be done

What I was saying is that Lando might not lose the niche if Gliscor ends up being broken and banned, which I think it will. Gliscor + Gholdengo looks really nasty for example.

 

[Moyashi]

that's the killing blow against lando-t. having to contend with tusk hurt its usage badly enough, now it has to compete for teamspace with gliscor too. i wouldn't be surprised if people are calling it niche by the end of the gen

??? This is acting like Lando is already struggling somehow for viability (it's not). Especially as defensive grounds, Lando is many times better than Tusk who has frankly a dogshit typing defensively.

 

[Mega Breloom]

??? This is acting like Lando is already struggling somehow for viability (it's not). Especially as defensive grounds, Lando is many times better than Tusk who has frankly a dogshit typing defensively.

Lando is struggling because it lacks an spamable move rn, it gets several chances to switch in but barely makes progress and just u-turns unlike when it had knock off or toxic and could cripple the rival's team. Basically it just gets chip damage over the course of the match. Tusk feels more impactful in most of the matches even if only gets the chance to knock off one or two mons or gets to spin the hazards.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Especially as defensive grounds

you mean the area where gliscor directly outperforms lando, to the point where it was being used on defensive teams more than lando was in tours at the tail end of gen 7?

what i'm saying is, tusk is better than lando for offense and gliscor is better than lando for defense, leaving it in a really awkward position where lando is only really preferable if you want a mix of the two. he's not the king of ou anymore. his reign has ended, like tyranitar's before him

and for the record, there's no way gliscor will end up banned. defensive mons just aren't broken enough to ban basically ever. mega sableye was a massive outlier that only got a ban at the end of gen 6 when no one really cared anymore, and deo-d was more of a reflection on how good spikes was on a mon that fat in the pre-boots era. the most a defensive mon will typically get is "we might suspect it after we take care of all the broken offensive threats", except nowadays every time we actually finish cleaning up all the broken stuff an entirely new meta happens like a week later

 

[CaptainDaimyo]

What Gambit set should I use?

I've been using the set with a decent amount of speed investment of 144 EVs. Allows you to outspeed most Corv I believe

 

[SDK03]

Nah, scald is bs doesn't matter what, easily one of the worst designed things in the game.

I agree and would rather Scald just not exist outside of Volcanion, but that whole thing is made better by everything out there that helps stave it off.

 

[Pabloaram]

Gotta say, Toxic Chain is kinda cracked. They have the ability to basically apply Toxic with any of their attacks.

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I assume the typings of the Momotaro Trio are gonna be;
Okidogi - Grass/Poison
Munkidori - Water/Poison
Fezandipiti - Flying/Poison

Okidogi looks like fighting/dark than grass poison but that ability alone gonna be annoying to fight with the lack of heal bell/aromatherapy

 

[GravitysGone]

I assumed the removal of widespread scald/toxic/knock was deliberate balancing but I guess it was just laziness lol

Also, with the new "toxic poison on ANY attack" ability, I wonder if there would be an appetite for an OM that breaks from cartridge and does some rebalancing. The power creep is just so out of hand at this point

 

[Avira]

and for the record, there's no way gliscor will end up banned. defensive mons just aren't broken enough to ban basically ever. mega sableye was a massive outlier that only got a ban at the end of gen 6 when no one really cared anymore, and deo-d was more of a reflection on how good spikes was on a mon that fat in the pre-boots era. the most a defensive mon will typically get is "we might suspect it after we take care of all the broken offensive threats", except nowadays every time we actually finish cleaning up all the broken stuff an entirely new meta happens like a week later

Mega Sableye's ban wasn't solely due to timing but also because the OU Council didn't want to act on Dugtrio/Arena Trap, which was the real problem, so Mega Sableye was scapegoated because people wanted to do something regarding stall. Many people who posted in the Mega Sableye suspect complained about Dugtrio being a big problem and maybe even the real issue, which was proven true when stall was broken without Mega Sableye because of Dugtrio's cancerous impact on the game.

I wouldn't say there's no chance of Gliscor getting banned though because if it keeps Roost and can Tera into whatever type it wants, it will be ridiculous to face for a lot of teams. For the record, I do not believe Gliscor will retain Roost, so it should stay OU or UU. Gamefreak removing all recovery from Mew likely shows that it does see that making Spikes really difficult to remove will mean that some mons will need to lose their reliable recovery, and I believe Gliscor will be one of those mons.

 

[Ast0rga]

Is Gliscor that good? Doesn't seem that fast, doesn't seem that bulky

(This is half bait, half serious question waiting to be answered with nice facts)

 

[G-Luke]

Big stall will gain a lot of favors with the dlc. Free toxic, scald to utterly destroy any semblance of balance physical walls had, and a great stallmon in reuniclus, to name the freebies.
Sad times are ahead.

Isn't Reuniclus Stall's biggest opp rn? What is stopping it from CMing up and sending stall to hell with Stored Power? Also, historically Poison Touch is used to bypass stall tactics, not bolster them. We can't assume stats or anything, but I have a feeling these pokemon are more offense leaning than defense leaning.

 

[Pabloaram]

Is Gliscor that good? Doesn't seem that fast, doesn't seem that bulky

(This is half bait, half serious question waiting to be answered with nice facts)

Lando T before Lando T

 

[Srn]

Isn't Reuniclus Stall's biggest opp rn? What is stopping it from CMing up and sending stall to hell with Stored Power? Also, historically Poison Touch is used to bypass stall tactics, not bolster them. We can't assume stats or anything, but I have a feeling these pokemon are more offense leaning than defense leaning.

Haze pex is gonna stop stored power, but it won't enjoy psyshock sets before tera that threaten it+blissey. Tera fairy haze pex with some speed creep will probably stop all CM reuni shenanigans though.

Also fuck HO and everything but I have enjoyed switching kingambit into pex. Dear god do not bring back scald.