Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

On the one hand I do think at this point some Moderator input is valid. On the other hand I would assume some of them have seen it by now (Gren's been here since the first page if only for a mildly reductive joke response) so I don't feel like a ping is necessary either.
 
I'm busy but I'll try to make a post later today. I haven't read the previous pages but will catch up soon.

In the mean time, OLT starts in a week, which means we're bound to get some new exciting metagame development in unexpected ways. What are your predictions for this OLT? Rain historically finds a way to resurge every OLT, do you think that'll be the case this year? Will we see new Veil teams or even full Snow teams? I have no clue but move on from whatever the past few pages were and try and discuss this for now.

Have a nice day
 
Anchor9 said:
What’s OLT?
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OLT is Smogon's annual Official Ladder Tournament! (it's the first thing that comes up when you google olt smogon)


TPP said:
In the mean time, OLT starts in a week, which means we're bound to get some new exciting metagame development in unexpected ways. What are your predictions for this OLT? Rain historically finds a way to resurge every OLT, do you think that'll be the case this year?
Click to expand...

I've been experimenting with rain a little bit lately, particularly finding success with standard rain 4 + lefties physdef rbolt + AV Volcanion.
https://pokepast.es/006e047eeaaa5aab

Got me to 1700s for the first time recently, I think the final two solve a lot of rain's problems. Rbolt switches into pon and rillaboom incredibly well and is incredibly hard to wall in return, while volcanion is a nuke under rain even without specs and assault vest lets it switch in on a lot of otherwise threats, notably primarina and iron valiant, and threaten them in return. It also traps Blissey and Alo and eliminates them, removingmons that otherwise wall bolt and barras respectively. It in general takes a surprising number of hits and deals back frankly surprising damage. Steam Eruption having that burn chance makes it particularly hard to switch into.

tl;dr, I am a rain fan, and strongly believe it will make a comeback. I think it is vastly underexplored in the current meta and has a lot of potential innovation.
 
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Anchor9 said:
What’s OLT?
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it's the only legumes tournament, a tournament where the only allowed pokemon are ones that are shaped like peanuts

in seriousness, completely off the top of my head by someone who knows nothing about it: olt is the official ladder tournament. it takes place in cycles that last about a week (i think?) where people ladder and whoever ends up top 4 or 5 or whatever at the end of each cycle gets a spot in the actual "tournament" portion. then whoever wins that tournament gets a cool trophy next to their name
 
TPP said:
In the mean time, OLT starts in a week, which means we're bound to get some new exciting metagame development in unexpected ways. What are your predictions for this OLT? Rain historically finds a way to resurge every OLT, do you think that'll be the case this year? Will we see new Veil teams or even full Snow teams?
Click to expand...
rain already had a bit of a semi-sorta-resurgence with that bellibolt team a while back, so i expect to see some heavily optimized variations of that team floating around. i also have an inexplicable gut feeling that someone is going to go crazy with overqwil this time around
 
I'm hoping for (but not expecting) the return of Maushold in OLT. Static and Flame Body are less common, Rocky Helmet can be dealt with via Knock Off support, and +1 Tera Dark Bite can rip most of the tier's ghosts a new one. Being able to revenge almost all Ogerpon-W sets and any Kyurem set that either lacks DD or hasn't clicked it yet means it's a good revenge killer, and fast Encore remains great.

It's also hazard removal that Gholdengo can't prevent, and while it needs a lot of support, 300 BP Population Bomb is quite the payoff.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
gee, looking back at the last few pages of this thread i don't have the slightest idea why they don't let the general public weigh in on policy review discussion
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daddy i really do respect you and you know im mostly with you and got your back, but the way you're treating us who believe we're overdue for change is really disheartening. if anything, i would have expected you to maintain a dialogue and bring worthwhile points, while in reality you have been strawmanning us and being dismissive for the sake of being dismissive.

i believe a lot has been said about why do we even need to implement this and as others have pointed out, its not a question of this change having a significant or direct impact in the meta, its a question of consistency and coherence.

if you, or anyone, want to discuss a formula or wording that could be satisfactory to all parties, i'm more than welcome. but dismissing people's opinions just bc they don't line up with yours is never acceptable, and trust me when i say this, because i fucking learned my lesson
 
arnimacarni said:
daddy i really do respect you and you know im mostly with you and got your back, but the way you're treating us who believe we're overdue for change is really disheartening. if anything, i would have expected you to maintain a dialogue and bring worthwhile points, while in reality you have been strawmanning us and being dismissive for the sake of being dismissive.

i believe a lot has been said about why do we even need to implement this and as others have pointed out, its not a question of this change having a significant or direct impact in the meta, its a question of consistency and coherence.

if you, or anyone, want to discuss a formula or wording that could be satisfactory to all parties, i'm more than welcome. but dismissing people's opinions just bc they don't line up with yours is never acceptable, and trust me when i say this, because i fucking learned my lesson
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i'm struggling to understand what could be more consistent or coherent than "you can't use multiple mons with the same dex number". wouldn't any sort of exclusion or extension to that be less consistent by definition? "except for regional forms" doesn't cover it because you'd still be able to use pikachu-alola and pikachu (it has the same suffix in the code as an alolan form, so there's no simple way to signify "alolan forms" coding-wise without excluding that pikachu). "except for regional forms with mechanical differences" still leads to problems because there are technically four regional forms of tauros and being able to load four of those guys seems a lot less desirable than being able to load two slowkings. so either we've already had to exclude two exceptions from the exception and we're straying further and further away from any kind of consistency and coherence, or we're allowing four-tauros/two-pikachu teams for the sake of the consistency we had to disturb to get here in the first place. problems like this will likely only become more complex in the future as more pokemon, regional forms, and forms of regional forms are added

also, does basculin-white-stripe count as a regional form because it debuted in hisui? if not, why not? just because it lacks the "-hisui" suffix? if that's the criteria, then do the pikachus count as regional forms because they do have the suffixes? the entire concept of "regional forms" is itself arbitrary

also, this:
IMG_2219.jpeg
 
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TPP said:
I'm busy but I'll try to make a post later today. I haven't read the previous pages but will catch up soon.

In the mean time, OLT starts in a week, which means we're bound to get some new exciting metagame development in unexpected ways. What are your predictions for this OLT? Rain historically finds a way to resurge every OLT, do you think that'll be the case this year? Will we see new Veil teams or even full Snow teams? I have no clue but move on from whatever the past few pages were and try and discuss this for now.

Have a nice day
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Hax spam teams + Misty Surge GWeezing counterpick will likely be on the rise on the upper end of ladder.

I'm expecting some niche mons to rise in usage like Sinestro, Fezandipti, etc. to help check some meta threats, though we'll see some easy counter tech for that like Psyshock Rai and Knock Off Ogerpon.

Hawlucha teams I think might seem some more usage since their wincon isn't too hard.

Anti-Zama tech will be spammed I think. Tera Ghost Tusk, Tera Ghost Gambit, Tera Ghost Kyurem, etc.

Speaking of Kyurem, we will likely start seeing some of the more MU fishy sets pop up. I think there will be some big Kyurem innovations here with stronger cores relying on it & players getting more greedy on what they run on it w/ adequate Tera & team support to compensate.
 
Mostly unrelated, but I have been loving using Tinkaton lately. Encore and Thunder Wave feel mandatory, and you need one of Rocks or Knock Off, but this mon feels like it just does so much despite it's bunching of stats. I've been going to speedcreep Kyurem so T Wave into encore is still viable on boosters like Valiant. Tusk is a hard wall, but so many other things can be crippled and then forced into an advantageous situation for you that I feel like it may have merit beyond the current fad of a spectacular Rai switch in.

I also think Mold Breaker is underexplored. Being able to Paralyze Gholdengo, Hatterene, and Garganacl feels huge with the rise of the latter two in the past few months and the ever present nature of Gholdengo.
 
SittinGamer said:
I also think Mold Breaker is underexplored. Being able to Paralyze Gholdengo, Hatterene, and Garganacl feels huge with the rise of the latter two in the past few months and the ever present nature of Gholdengo.
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Echoing the Mold Breaker love, TWave on those targets is sooooooooooo huge, being able to Encore Hatterene and Gholdengo is also very big to stop setup opportunities. As of now it's defo my favorite option over Pickpocket.
 
Sorry if this may feel irrelevant but just opened this thread since OST, can any1 tell me what's discussions about ? (I'm reading but there are so many replies....)(also it's 1 am so yeah, I'm reading slowly)
I don't know why but since yesterday I just wanna talk...
 
FFK said:
Sorry if this may feel irrelevant but just opened this thread since OST, can any1 tell me what's discussions about ? (I'm reading but there are so many replies....)(also it's 1 am so yeah, I'm reading slowly)
I don't know why but since yesterday I just wanna talk...
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current discussions are about olt and what strategies might be on the rise during it. there's some buzz surrounding less-used mons and strats like rain, fezandipiti, sinistcha, and tinkaton, all of which i personally hope will end up popping off. morkal also recently reemerged with a jolteon analysis. nothing else of note really
 
TPP said:
I'm busy but I'll try to make a post later today. I haven't read the previous pages but will catch up soon.

In the mean time, OLT starts in a week, which means we're bound to get some new exciting metagame development in unexpected ways. What are your predictions for this OLT? Rain historically finds a way to resurge every OLT, do you think that'll be the case this year? Will we see new Veil teams or even full Snow teams? I have no clue but move on from whatever the past few pages were and try and discuss this for now.

Have a nice day
Click to expand...

Actually interested if there's any new stall that'll come out of this. Previous OLTs have yielded neat stall types like Moltres + Avalugg stall in Gen 7 and that one Buzzwole team in Gen 8 I think. I know the stall community is strong in SV so I'm wondering what they have cooking up.

Another fun thing you get is people loading up hard counterteams and sniping people at the very top of the ladder. Hilarious when it happens. I can't find the replay but I vividly remember someone loading stall and getting sniped by a guy with a 2-mon team (one of them was Hoopa-U.)

I'm also hoping for the return of the goat Ske and his Manaphy rain...
 
I’ve been trying a lot of Rain and stall on ladder (for that portugese ladder tour (trained for olt) as well as tours (can link few tour games if people are interested in seeing some cool Specs Torna-T 3-0) and they will definitely be very good this OLT, I think Sun gonna be a bit hard but Rain and Stall are, imo, the best playstyles to use at the beginning of OLT, then just see trends and adapt? HO good this gen as always, I think Balance will be kind of fucked, even if rn it’s ok, but BO + Sinistcha definitely counters the meta.
I’m just summarizing a lot bc it’s 2 am but may see tomorrow if I can find cool stuffs.
 
Been cooking today with restalk zama and the rest of the team nearly dedicated to riding of ghosts and to a lesser extent glowking. Tera dark knock off doexys. Tera fairy on hsam for dragapult. Flamethrower glowking.

Also threw boulder on the squad bc getting rid of ghould, and timely future sights allow it to do it's thing.

Tera flying sub SD sets up on most gliscor.

Coming back up in ELO after a bad experimental tilt.
 
Magcargo said:
Hax spam teams + Misty Surge GWeezing counterpick will likely be on the rise on the upper end of ladder.

I'm expecting some niche mons to rise in usage like Sinestro, Fezandipti, etc. to help check some meta threats, though we'll see some easy counter tech for that like Psyshock Rai and Knock Off Ogerpon.

Hawlucha teams I think might seem some more usage since their wincon isn't too hard.

Anti-Zama tech will be spammed I think. Tera Ghost Tusk, Tera Ghost Gambit, Tera Ghost Kyurem, etc.

Speaking of Kyurem, we will likely start seeing some of the more MU fishy sets pop up. I think there will be some big Kyurem innovations here with stronger cores relying on it & players getting more greedy on what they run on it w/ adequate Tera & team support to compensate.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't be surprised to see some really cool anti Darkrai tech and sub Kyurem tech on ladder during this, because holy shit sub Kyurem is a monstrosity.
 
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