Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Gouging Fire is banned]

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Scizor makes for a nice defogger until you realize it has no recovery and blanks into defensive dengo (heh... notice a theme? almost like this mon is banworthy or something..) . It's forced to run boots as well due to it taking 3 billion from hazards and thus can't even recover with lefties. I love me a good scizor but unfortunately brokendengo makes it hard to justify fog sciz rn, band or sd are the main two real sets for it imo.

Yeah, ok... That's one out of like all the rest. Other niche Defog options like Talonflame or Geezing don't have a problem with Ghold matchups. All the UU ranked spinners besides Quaq also hit Ghold supereffectively with STAB, though you almost never see Phan or Drill because Tusk and Treads exist. Not many people know this, but Cyclizar and Brambleghast can also be used as spinners that beat Ghold. Although, Brambleghast has to be careful of the set and isn't always as workable in OU.

And if we are being honest, the lack of Roost hits Scizor far more as a defogger than Ghold's existence does. Otherwise, you can just do the slow U-turn thing that Corv already does.

It may still be viable to use a Scizor set with emergency Defog as a team's second option. But you'd have to run less coverage.
 
I've become a Slither Wing Truther holy fuck, this thing puts in so much work its insane. What are some sets you guys have tired on it? I've been using a utility set by Morkal to great success, still getting used to the mon but it lives thru so much its unreal. BU as a set sounds fun in theory, as does AV. :blobuwu:

EDIT: I'm ignoring everything else happening in this thread I want to talk about the bug he's my new friend

I’m hoping Slither Wing will finally get ranked on VR this time around. First Impression is so useful with all of the Darkrais and Waterpons running around. It’s also fun Wisping Zama when they think they can set up on you.
 
I've become a Slither Wing Truther holy fuck, this thing puts in so much work its insane. What are some sets you guys have tired on it? I've been using a utility set by Morkal to great success, still getting used to the mon but it lives thru so much its unreal. BU as a set sounds fun in theory, as does AV. :blobuwu:

EDIT: I'm ignoring everything else happening in this thread I want to talk about the bug he's my new friend
You're even ignoring Cocaine Bear (the name it has for my... narcotics based team)?

It seems the AV is the item of the month, lots of mons are using it to great effect. If we can make a team with all Heavy Duty Boots or Quick Claw, it shows that we can afford odd itrm choices, and Assault Vest isnt evem a bad choice by any stretch.
 
It seems the AV is the item of the month, lots of mons are using it to great effect. If we can make a team with all Heavy Duty Boots or Quick Claw, it shows that we can afford odd itrm choices, and Assault Vest isnt evem a bad choice by any stretch.
i'd like to point out that, unlike boots and quick claw, av has a distinct downside besides "not being able to simultaneously run another item". locking yourself out of status moves doesn't work for honestly i'd say the majority of mons. offensive mons tend to have some status move on them a lot of the time and defensive mons (who would benefit the most from av without the downside) really need status moves. most things that can afford to run 4 attacks are gonna be going on the offensive and running a choice item, boots for pivoting, or occasionally life orb instead (or expert belt, in darkrai's case). av is good on a few mons—glowking is a notable example—but a lot of the time it's just simply better to run something else

also, an all-boots team isn't "odd item choices". boots are the single best item in the game this gen and stacking six of them (or 5 + scor) is great for draining your opponent's momentum by letting them waste turns setting up useless hazards and maintaining your own momentum by not needing to spend turns on hazard removal as long as you can keep a knock absorber healthy. monoclaw is an odd item choice, i'll give you that
 
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i'd like to point out that, unlike boots and quick claw, av has a distinct downside besides "not being able to simultaneously run another item". locking yourself out of status moves doesn't work for honestly i'd say the majority of mons. offensive mons tend to have some status move on them a lot of the time and defensive mons (who would benefit the most from av without the downside) really need status moves. most things that can afford to run 4 attacks are gonna be going on the offensive and running a choice item, boots, or occasionally life orb instead

also, an all-boots team isn't "odd item choices". boots are the single best item in the game this gen and stacking six of them (or 5 + scor) is great for draining your opponent's momentum by letting them waste turns setting up useless hazards and maintaining your own momentum by not needing to spend turns on hazard removal as long as you can keep a knock absorber healthy. monoclaw is an odd item choice, i'll give you that
Well, yeah. I'm not saying that it's the item to end all items, it's not even splashable. Just that here has been quite a few posts popping up that's been singing praises of AV on various mons. People have been experimenting. Luna, Dark, Crown, Slither. Of course, a few of these had been tried before, but a common pattern now seems to center around AV.

And of course, boots spam isn't an odd choice. The point was, we can afford to be creative with our item choices. The whole reason monoclaw even worked at all was because the mons in questions were solid without an item. Same for bootspam, I think. 5 boots vs a team that doesn't even use hazards means you're basically playing an item less team (Toxic Orb doesn't count). Yet it's still a worthwhile strategy, even when it doesn't pan out.

There are mons that are just made for AV, and they seem to be springing up more these paat few days.

As an aside, I asked on Discord how well AV Luna would work, and was told that I'm better off sticking to its offensive presence. I'm glad I didn't listen to them.
 
You're even ignoring Cocaine Bear (the name it has for my... narcotics based team)?

It seems the AV is the item of the month, lots of mons are using it to great effect. If we can make a team with all Heavy Duty Boots or Quick Claw, it shows that we can afford odd itrm choices, and Assault Vest isnt evem a bad choice by any stretch.
Make no mistake, I've been running AV Mama Bear alongside it for funsies. The teams so bulky that it makes wish passing for both in case of emergency very, very fun and effective. I'm planning on trying to refine a team that runs both to see how far I can take it, 1600 is the high thus far but I feel with proper management and effort I could refine it higher to make it more consistent. :blobuwu: Sun is the biggest annoyance thus far, I need to better organize a team around both.
 
For the SD Wellspring enjoyers out there, Play Rough seems to be the move rn yes? There's been a huge uptick in dragons like Kyu, Dragonite, Raging Bolt (and Hydrapple?!) in ladder these past few weeks and SD PR is good at mowing them down, provided you don't miss. Losing Encore is a bummer but the added coverage is worth it.
 
Hello all it is once again time for a shitmon spotlight and today it is one from all the way back in rby
:sv/Tentacruel:
Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes

Anyone who's played old gens knows how annoying this guy can be in the right situations and in SV it has a couple neat advantages. The goal of course is utility: spin, knock, pivot etc. Liquid Ooze is the first major key. This means Tentacruel has a very good matchup against one of the most popular spinblockers, Sinistcha. Matcha Gotcha is easily tanked for negative health on Sinistcha, and Strength Sap can straight up OHKO. This can also be good against things like Giga Drain from venusaur or others, Horn Leech from ogerpons, and even the odd drain punch.

EVs here are for outspeeding Tusk, letting you Flip Turn out before they can spin on you or KO with a ground move. This has good synergy with spinblockers of your own, letting you keep up Tspikes and play mindgames with ground immunities. Defence is for matching up against Samurott, who Tentacruel naturally walls and spins on. After a spin you outspeed meaning you can knock, get up tspikes, and continue to spin until they either take you down or switch out, at which point you are likely to be able to spend the rest of the game hazard free. This set also matches up decently well into webs as they really don't like toxic spikes.

Knock is an obvious addition, allowing for progress against easy switch ins like Gholdengo and Dragapult. Also works great against things looking to absorb a status move like Glowking or Alomomola.

I've been having success tagging in Tentacruel with grassy terrain support and something to tank psychic moves like Tinkaton. Hope you give it a try
 
The only worthwhile Ubers comment at this point is:

Ubers is OU minus the rule against over-centralization.

On a more worthwhile note, welcome back Lokix, good to see you again. I wonder how many sub-OU mons would be possible to include in a team and still get near the top of the ladder?

I hit top 10 a few times in Gen 8 with a team of full RU mons. Currently have two accounts in top 100 with my Yanmega squad where the only OU mon is Val. It's really rewarding to challenge yourself and tailor lower tier mons for OU threats. You can't just copy RU spreads. My Yanmegas either run Shadow Ball or Psychic Noise to hit OU threats/break walls. Working on getting a 3rd account in top 100 using E-Terrain and other random lower tier mons. Bulk Up Okidogi can 1v1 Zama, I love when an overlooked or underwhelming mon hard counters legit top OU threats. Unlocking the potential of "weaker" mons is legit the only reason I still play this silly game lol.
 
I’m hoping Slither Wing will finally get ranked on VR this time around. First Impression is so useful with all of the Darkrais and Waterpons running around. It’s also fun Wisping Zama when they think they can set up on you.

IMG_4752.jpeg
 
Hello all it is once again time for a shitmon spotlight and today it is one from all the way back in rby
:sv/Tentacruel:
Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes

Anyone who's played old gens knows how annoying this guy can be in the right situations and in SV it has a couple neat advantages. The goal of course is utility: spin, knock, pivot etc. Liquid Ooze is the first major key. This means Tentacruel has a very good matchup against one of the most popular spinblockers, Sinistcha. Matcha Gotcha is easily tanked for negative health on Sinistcha, and Strength Sap can straight up OHKO. This can also be good against things like Giga Drain from venusaur or others, Horn Leech from ogerpons, and even the odd drain punch.

EVs here are for outspeeding Tusk, letting you Flip Turn out before they can spin on you or KO with a ground move. This has good synergy with spinblockers of your own, letting you keep up Tspikes and play mindgames with ground immunities. Defence is for matching up against Samurott, who Tentacruel naturally walls and spins on. After a spin you outspeed meaning you can knock, get up tspikes, and continue to spin until they either take you down or switch out, at which point you are likely to be able to spend the rest of the game hazard free. This set also matches up decently well into webs as they really don't like toxic spikes.

Knock is an obvious addition, allowing for progress against easy switch ins like Gholdengo and Dragapult. Also works great against things looking to absorb a status move like Glowking or Alomomola.

I've been having success tagging in Tentacruel with grassy terrain support and something to tank psychic moves like Tinkaton. Hope you give it a try
wait, how can strength sap ohko sinistcha? with no investment and a neutral nature tentacruel hits 176 attack, which translates to 176 damage, which isn't enough to ohko even uninvested sinistcha (even if it's holding big root). but i do think tentacruel is heavily underrated for something that can knock, spin, pivot, outspeed tusk, and tank special moves
 
I wonder if eyes will be on Kyurem after olt? That mon is a demon and I can only imagine it getting more broken.

I normally avoid this thread like the plague for obvious reasons but I wanted to contribute my 2 cents on what I think is the most problematic Pokemon in our metagame.

Kyurem will define many OLT teams, either by their use of it or response to it. I've witnessed a kind of scramble on high ladder recently following the introduction of a new and dangerous Kyurem set by a certain returning great of the game. People very quickly sought to adapt by bringing very hard counters like AV Iron Crown, Tera Steel Psynoise Latios, and Encore on every Dnite. The set I'm talking about is Sub, Protect, Freeze Dry, Earth Power.

:sv/kyurem:
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ground/Ice
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

While the hard-counters have started to wane in popularity, so have balance teams. While I'm not the best at saving replays, I have seen barely any traditional balance teams on high ladder in the last week. The reason is pretty simple; Kyurem, specifically this set, forces non-traditional answers that simply don't fit on balance teams without hazard removal. A clear example is certifiedlovergirl (alt name, I won't reveal who it is), who was spamming Tusk, Gliscor, Weavile, Raging Bolt, Glowking, Zamazenta from 1900s to 2000s. While I don't know for sure their reasoning for switching teams, I can guess that it was because of this Kyurem set since it popped up around the same time they changed teams and the team is completely washed by it. Last time I saw them on ladder they were in 2000s with a version of a team I made during Archaludon meta: Specs Iron Crown, Scarf Samu-H, Clodsire, Moltres, Weezing-G, and Band Scizor. We can see that in order to fit an offensive switchin to Kyurem like Iron Crown that forces it out, we have to run non-traditional hazard removal options and a strange choice-item-centric balance structure. I will also note that when I edited this team for the current meta, I included Roar on Moltres to capitalize on Hazard Stacking and phaze Kyurem out.

This is obviously anecdotal, but I see a pattern of adaptation among good players that I see on high ladder. They're either avoiding balance entirely or switching to weird structures that I would call like Heavy Bulky Offense. Another issue with Kyurem (and I understand that this buzzword gets thrown around too much by people who have no idea what they're talking about) is its versatility. Between SubTect, Boots, NMI Mixed, DD, and Specs. The mon can give you headaches no matter how you try to defensively answer it. So the natural answer is to check it offensively. This doesn't mean just using offense, as good balances can offensively check threats by using their defensive pivots. Some may say this is easily accomplished by balance using Slowking-G and a revenge killer like Wake or Pult. Ignoring the fact that the Snow change limits you to special attackers, the thing about Kyurem is it has different ways of disrupting this strategy for every set except boots. It can Sub; Sub DD; DD; 2hko with Tera Ice Blizzard, force a tera, and switch out on the predicted Twave. I have seen all of these happen on Gking, so it's natural that people are turning to less resilient balance options like Tinkaton and Crown to answer it. My point is that this is not a healthy effect. While I don't think I've seen any more or less Gking on ladder, I've certainly seen less Gking paired with Gliscor, Corviknight, or Ting Lu. Balance is suffering because of this mon, and I think OLT will show us that it needs to go, regardless of how much Kyurem we actually see on the ladder.

I was going to make some grand prediction about how the meta will look as the cycles go on and advise you all to look out for the effects of Kyurem, but the truth is there are so many different factors that shape playstyle popularity and pokemon choice. Many OLT teams will simply be reactions to the popular team that x top player used to top the ladder last cycle. Regardless, I think the wealth of quality games that we'll all get to see will be a great testing ground to discuss potential future changes to the meta. I personally hope that Kyurem is our next choice for tiering action.

Hope you enjoyed reading my thoughts.

Have a good day,
leng
 
wait, how can strength sap ohko sinistcha? with no investment and a neutral nature tentacruel hits 176 attack, which translates to 176 damage, which isn't enough to ohko even uninvested sinistcha (even if it's holding big root). but i do think tentacruel is heavily underrated for something that can knock, spin, pivot, outspeed tusk, and tank special moves
I was wondering that myself, figured a Sin musta killed itself while at low hp during the op's match and they didn't notice Sin's health at the moment because they were laughing too hard lol
 
Certainly Tentacruel isn't OHKOing Sinitcha anytime soon, but we have to take into account that Matcha Gotcha will also hurt Sinitcha, so it will have to just use the ghost Stab and will be worn down by the time Tenta dies. I personally think Sinitcha is a fraud Mon and very overrated, but for those who don't think the same, Tenta is a useful asset.
 
So like, I got a mean Cyclizar set:

Cyclizar @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Double-Edge
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin/Draco Meteor
- Overheat/Draco Meteor

Mixed attackers are really good right now because they can take out some of the walls that would otherwise block them. It's a great way to make progress into a lot of cores. Cyclizar appealed to me as a LO candidate because it has access to high BP moves, Regenerator, and similar attacking stats to D-speed. Although it does requires more EVs in speed investment, I found full attacking investment to be mostly sufficient.

The main move you are going to click is Double Edge. With the bonus multipliers on that 120 BP, it hits very hard. Knock Off also hits hard when Tera Dark, but you'll need to pick and choose your Tera spots for when it makes sense. Either way, it's really good for chip and making progress.

The other two moves are really based on preference. In my initial testing, I did not have Rapid Spin. You can run it with just the other 4 attacks and it works ok. But it's obviously good for hazard clear to spin. Additionally, getting one RS off is very useful for dealing with teams that have faster mons like Pult. This also includes stuff like scarf Meow or BE speed Valiant. It means that they can't just come in and threaten to RK you.

My opinion is you want to keep Overheat. It gives you another way to hit Ghold, as well as other non-Heatran steels like the Metal Birds and Crown. Being able to hit Ghost types with Knock Off and Steel types with Overheat has really good synergy with the STAB Double Edge. There also aren't that many rock types to worry about besides Garg and maybe Glimm.

Draco is better against neutral targets because it is STAB. So you hit things like Dozo and Zama harder. I suppose it depends on your team what you need more. But in my testing, I found myself clicking Draco Meteor a lot less than Overheat. This includes tests when I had both and tests when I just had one or the other with spin. There are also a lot of Fairy types and Tera Fairy mons out there that make a set with both Dragon STAB and Knock Off generally less ideal. Depending on your team comp and needs, you may still decide you want Draco Meteor. So I left it as an option.

Well, yeah. I'm not saying that it's the item to end all items, it's not even splashable. Just that here has been quite a few posts popping up that's been singing praises of AV on various mons. People have been experimenting. Luna, Dark, Crown, Slither. Of course, a few of these had been tried before, but a common pattern now seems to center around AV.

And of course, boots spam isn't an odd choice. The point was, we can afford to be creative with our item choices. The whole reason monoclaw even worked at all was because the mons in questions were solid without an item. Same for bootspam, I think. 5 boots vs a team that doesn't even use hazards means you're basically playing an item less team (Toxic Orb doesn't count). Yet it's still a worthwhile strategy, even when it doesn't pan out.

There are mons that are just made for AV, and they seem to be springing up more these paat few days.

As an aside, I asked on Discord how well AV Luna would work, and was told that I'm better off sticking to its offensive presence. I'm glad I didn't listen to them.

I remember using AV Ursaluna much earlier in the gen. I liked Tera Poison Gunk Shot. Tera Poison was good for the Fighting and Grass moves you'd often see while hitting fairies. Gunk Shot was just a really nice high BP move with a chance to poison. I don't know if I would run it now with Gliscor and Lando-T being so common. I think you'd probably want like Avalanche and/or maybe Supercell Slam for the metal birds.

And while we are talking about boots spam, I just want to say that I back you up on this. I personally don't believe in spamming like 5 boots on a non-stall team. You should be able to structure it so you have 3 at most and take advantage of other items. There are a lot of really good hazard resistant glue mons like Gliscor, Gambit, Crown, Skarm, Corv, Tusk, Treads, Glowking, Clodsire, and Clefable. Most teams can fit at least 1 or 2 of these 10 mons on their teams without needing to run boots on it.

Most teams that aren't stall don't need access to all 6 mons constantly regardless of the current hazard situation. Players should be able to have a rotation of like 3-4 mons for that situation until they can deal with it. And in the first place, if you aren't stall, your team shouldn't be so passive that you are constantly letting them get up crazy levels of stacked hazards on you all the time. And by you, I mean people in general. Not you specifically.

Hello all it is once again time for a shitmon spotlight and today it is one from all the way back in rby
:sv/Tentacruel:
Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
Anyone who's played old gens knows

As far as I'm concerned, you could've stopped it right there. I got you. We know. Tentracruel used to sometimes even be seen in Ubers in some earlier gens due to its abilities as a special wall. I greatly approve of this.
 
So like, I got a mean Cyclizar set:

Cyclizar @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Double-Edge
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin/Draco Meteor
- Overheat/Draco Meteor

Mixed attackers are really good right now because they can take out some of the walls that would otherwise block them. It's a great way to make progress into a lot of cores. Cyclizar appealed to me as a LO candidate because it has access to high BP moves, Regenerator, and similar attacking stats to D-speed. Although it does requires more EVs in speed investment, I found full attacking investment to be mostly sufficient.

The main move you are going to click is Double Edge. With the bonus multipliers on that 120 BP, it hits very hard. Knock Off also hits hard when Tera Dark, but you'll need to pick and choose your Tera spots for when it makes sense. Either way, it's really good for chip and making progress.

The other two moves are really based on preference. In my initial testing, I did not have Rapid Spin. You can run it with just the other 4 attacks and it works ok. But it's obviously good for hazard clear to spin. Additionally, getting one RS off is very useful for dealing with teams that have faster mons like Pult. This also includes stuff like scarf Meow or BE speed Valiant. It means that they can't just come in and threaten to RK you.

My opinion is you want to keep Overheat. It gives you another way to hit Ghold, as well as other non-Heatran steels like the Metal Birds and Crown. Being able to hit Ghost types with Knock Off and Steel types with Overheat has really good synergy with the STAB Double Edge. There also aren't that many rock types to worry about besides Garg and maybe Glimm.

Draco is better against neutral targets because it is STAB. So you hit things like Dozo and Zama harder. I suppose it depends on your team what you need more. But in my testing, I found myself clicking Draco Meteor a lot less than Overheat. This includes tests when I had both and tests when I just had one or the other with spin. There are also a lot of Fairy types and Tera Fairy mons out there that make a set with both Dragon STAB and Knock Off generally less ideal. Depending on your team comp and needs, you may still decide you want Draco Meteor. So I left it as an option.



I remember using AV Ursaluna much earlier in the gen. I liked Tera Poison Gunk Shot. Tera Poison was good for the Fighting and Grass moves you'd often see while hitting fairies. Gunk Shot was just a really nice high BP move with a chance to poison. I don't know if I would run it now with Gliscor and Lando-T being so common. I think you'd probably want like Avalanche and/or maybe Supercell Slam for the metal birds.

And while we are talking about boots spam, I just want to say that I back you up on this. I personally don't believe in spamming like 5 boots on a non-stall team. You should be able to structure it so you have 3 at most and take advantage of other items. There are a lot of really good hazard resistant glue mons like Gliscor, Gambit, Crown, Skarm, Corv, Tusk, Treads, Glowking, Clodsire, and Clefable. Most teams can fit at least 1 or 2 of these 10 mons on their teams without needing to run boots on it.

Most teams that aren't stall don't need access to all 6 mons constantly regardless of the current hazard situation. Players should be able to have a rotation of like 3-4 mons for that situation until they can deal with it. And in the first place, if you aren't stall, your team shouldn't be so passive that you are constantly letting them get up crazy levels of stacked hazards on you all the time. And by you, I mean people in general. Not you specifically.



As far as I'm concerned, you could've stopped it right there. I got you. We know. Tentracruel used to sometimes even be seen in Ubers in some earlier gens due to its abilities as a special wall. I greatly approve of this.

Wouldn't U-Turn work well for this set? Punch someone in the nose real hard and gtfo with 121 Speed+regenerator?

24 Sp. Atk EVs ensure a Overheat 2HKO on bulky Ghold after rocks, so you can drop Knock-Off if you have another knocker in your team. You TRULY need something to pivot it in anyways because 70/65/65 bulk with double recoil just can't take an unresisted hit, but on the plus side it'd make a functional double-turn core. In theory, at least.
 
I personally think Sinitcha is a fraud Mon and very overrated, but for those who don't think the same, Tenta is a useful asset.

*GASP* You take that back, [GENDER UNCONFIRMED]! I've been singing Sin's praises before it was cool! And I regret it, since my teams are grass weak! Me, of all people!

I also have strong feeling regarding Arboliva but I don't have time to test it. Before Rilla was a thing, I had fun with Eject Button. But Rilla is a thing.
 
i also have to disagree here, i think sinistcha is very good as a spinblocker and bulky wincon. being one of the only safe switch-ins to both ursaluna and ogerpon is a very impressive feat, to say nothing of the many other physical attackers it can set up on
 
Wouldn't U-Turn work well for this set? Punch someone in the nose real hard and gtfo with 121 Speed+regenerator?

24 Sp. Atk EVs ensure a Overheat 2HKO on bulky Ghold after rocks, so you can drop Knock-Off if you have another knocker in your team. You TRULY need something to pivot it in anyways because 70/65/65 bulk with double recoil just can't take an unresisted hit, but on the plus side it'd make a functional double-turn core. In theory, at least.

In theory, yes. In practice, I found the other 5 moves to all be more useful for me. Personally, I preferred to get off like 1-4 moves and then hard switch it. But you can certainly try U-turn if you're ok with dropping Knock Off. Just be careful of when they try to switch in Ghost types on the DE. Pult will then outspeed you without a RS boost. Bulkier ghosts like Sinistcha or Dirge can also sometimes be a problem. Perhaps you can U-turn into a teammate for that.

I also have strong feeling regarding Arboliva but I don't have time to test it. Before Rilla was a thing, I had fun with Eject Button. But Rilla is a thing.

Sadly, I was personally never able to make Arboliva work in OU. I love the thing, but Rillaboom is just way better.
 
i also have to disagree here, i think sinistcha is very good as a spinblocker and bulky wincon. being one of the only safe switch-ins to both ursaluna and ogerpon is a very impressive feat, to say nothing of the many other physical attackers it can set up on
I've been a staunch Sini believer for awhile, it's very very good and I think both its bulky status sets and Calm Mind sets are great. Awesome answer to many threats and has very little weighing it down too hard. Too bad about Kyurem though!
 
Harvest Sitris Berry is stupid amounts of fun. You just need to ask yourself "how much do I hate my opponent today".

The answer may surprise you!

If we had less Knock Off users in the Tier, Harvest Arboliva and Alola Egg (or even Tropius, who has U-Turn going for it) would be able to use Leppa Berry to ensure (with Tera Poison or Steel) you almost never lose to defensive teams. Other Mons that can use the similar Recycle + Leppa Berry are Bronzong (Levitate and no need to Tera, but needs to use Rest), Hydrapple (Regenerator and big damage output), Muk and Snorlax (both of these unfortunately need Rest and are not hazards immune like Bronzong, but they can do something offensively, especially Muk). This strategy improvement is another reason to support a Ban of Waterpon (notorious Knock Off user).
 
If we had less Knock Off users in the Tier, Harvest Arboliva and Alola Egg (or even Tropius, who has U-Turn going for it) would be able to use Leppa Berry to ensure (with Tera Poison or Steel) you almost never lose to defensive teams. Other Mons that can use the similar Recycle + Leppa Berry are Bronzong (Levitate and no need to Tera, but needs to use Rest), Hydrapple (Regenerator and big damage output), Muk and Snorlax (both of these unfortunately need Rest and are not hazards immune like Bronzong, but they can do something offensively, especially Muk). This strategy improvement is another reason to support a Ban of Waterpon (notorious Knock Off user).
important to note, though, that leppa + recycle/harvest risks pinging the endless battle clause detector. it's unlikely if you're not actively trying to violate the clause, but there's still a distinct possibility of your opponent having tech capable of triggering it, recognizing they have this bizarre alternative wincon, and positioning themselves in such a way that the ebc alarm goes off, which will make you automatically lose for bringing leppa + recycle/harvest
 
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