Strength Sap Ferrothorn is kinda horrifying. We don't need to give it reliable recovery too, it already has everything sob
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
The moderators of this forum are Finchinator, Ruft, ausma, 658Greninja, kd458, Heatranator, FayaWizard, Shaymin Sky and TPP.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 ( NEW SURVEY UP, POST 20,700 )
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Strength Sap Ferrothorn is kinda horrifying. We don't need to give it reliable recovery too, it already has everything sob
So happy about Moltres' rise. I've been using it since DLC2 dropped out and I think it's a cool and good mon:) it stops non-tera zama, and it's a really good check to most lando, cinderace, meowscarada, weavile, skarm, corv and great tusk set. Also, flame body is busted in general
Take the lead on organizing a no-terastal tournament, then; a quarter of the player base would like some form of action, they should be a few experienced hosts willing to teach you the ropes.
If the interest is there and a semi-regular tournament can be sustained, you'll get to see what Gen 9 could have been. If not, you'll have confirmed that there isn't enough interest in a no-tera alternate to make a go of it. Either way, that's useful to know.
Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?
I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.
Just wondering, but what was the role that serp accomplished? Was it simply just a fast attacker or did it fill some defensive role.
Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?
I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.
The only thing I can think of so far is weavile with tera fighting low kick, but of course if serp had a specific role on this team, it would prob be easier to determine. Weavile can even take one earth power from specs kyurem and with tera fighting low kick, OHKO kyurem.
Serp mainly existed as a lure in for people expecting it to crumble under heavy physical hits; Think Tusk switch ins after Tink's balloon pops, etc. It basically existed to spread status and act as speed control while AV Crown took on any heavy SPA hits. A lot of the time I used Future Sight > Glare on Dark switch ins. Which worked great! until it didn't. Largely because stupid dragon can hit in either direction.
I originally had Pult in Serps place, but after a nasty run in with one too many Dozo's I swapped for Serp and it utterly demolished a lot of stall teams lol.
Well, Kyurem usually tera Ices for wallbreaking, right? That being the case, it is VERY vulnerable to steel and Teraing won't help him much. As long as you set SR quickly AV Crown should force him out repeatedly with tachyon cutter. This interaction should deal heavy chip and scout if it's HDB, in which case your team should handle it normally as long as you make sure it can't hit the field easily since your entire team threatens it. It will require a sac or two and it'd crumble vs Tera Ground DD or something psychotic like that but that's why everyone hates Kyurem I guess
Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?
I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.
You won't believe what I've run into about three times now that's made me come to the conclusion I need this stupid dragon wiped from the face of the earth.
It sucks cuz I've had a great deal of success against nearly every other existing threat in the meta, but man Kyurem is the one thing I feel like really ruins this team LOL. I assume its from people building it to counter stall or similar but it feels like a 50/50 as to whether I should bring in Crown or similar against it--Either due to it mashing Tera Ground or dragon dancing and immediately ruining my entire day. I played with Tera Fairy on crown for a bit but it didn't have the same bait potential as Tera Fighting for me against a lot of steel types I use it as back up against.
I don't think there is anything persay that can purely recreate what serp does while countering kyurem. The only other thing I can think of is a bulky cinderace.
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire/Fighting
EVs: 224 HP / 32 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Court Change/High Jump Kick/Low Kick
You have the spreading status with will-o-wisp, which is nice, and you can take kyurem's ice moves decently well. Tera fighting helps you as with HJK, you can potentially ohko kyurem from full, while always living any non draco meteor hit (this is assuming its specs, bulky cinder can live any hit from HDB Kyurem from full). Of course, tera fire is better against most things. Low kick does less damage, but has no chance to deal 50% hp recoil. Though of course, court change can be chosen over the two in order to have more hazard control, which wears down specs kyurem easier.
Now that's an interesting one! I'll try it out, thank you. HJK sounds like a very good middle ground for dealing with both set up steels and getting status chip on switch ins.
Thank you. Yeah I guess that is life. Full of ups and downs. Calmed my nerves a bit and am slowly playing better again. I simply have to refresh my mind every time shit hits the fan I guess and not let gxe or elo decide how good I am.
If we are talking about new answers, I have seen slightly more Scizors who can threaten with BP or get momuentum with u-turn.
AV H-Goodra does quite well into Kyurem, tanking most of its moves including EP while firing back from her good sized special attacks. There is also AV Hatt that can take on Kyurems attack temporarily and spread status or just fire back. Granted those aren't permanent solutions but they give you enough breathing room for you to wiggle with. Kyurem barely has any defensive answers and is mainly checked by offensive pressure though.
I run Scizor and it does well but not on repeated switch-ins unfortunately (like you said - temporary), but it does really well in those situations and CB hits very hard, or you can knock-off for guaranteed progress. Decent stuff, though it still loses to DD Tera Ground because Kyurem is tanky as fuck.
One simply can't outright blank Kyurem, which is why it is so strong against stall. If they are playing correctly, it will only hit the field when it is safe to fire a nuke, and then retreat. It's kinda like RM in that regard - if it hits the field something is probably gonna die or take severe damage. Like you said - offensive pressure is all you can do, if Kyurem does hit the field it's a matter of cutting losses more than outright winning the interaction ig unless you get a nasty predict on its set
The Smogon-recommended AV Glowking set doesn’t have an optimal spread for the Kyurem matchup. Instead, invest more in special bulk with a Spdef boosting nature and some 120 Spdef EVs. This turns Ice Beam into a 4HKO and Earth Power into a 3HKO.
AV Glowking doesn’t like spikes chip so you need good hazards removal support. Keep in mind that Kyurem doesn’t have a lot of free opportunities to switch in so the strain can be more manageable in practice. You can also leverage your own hazards to chip Kyurem if Specs. So the dynamic goes both ways.
The offensive teams that use Kyurem also carry other special breakers/sweepers like Valiant, Deoxys, or Raging Bolt that can inevitability put a lot of strain on Glowking or any Spdef core. Many games Kyurem softens up Glowking so that Valiant/Bolt can sweep. So it helps to have good partners. Pair Glowking with a Flying type and bulky Steel type. Know when you can trade Glowking for Kyurem and when you have to conserve its health when there are other special threats in the back.
Mixed Kyurem sets are problematic. I think Tera Steel on AV Glowking could be used more to address this.
One other innovation is increased usage of Balloon Gambit and Ghold, which can always safely switch into Kyurem once.
I do think Kyurem puts a lot of strain on bulky teams and I wouldn’t mind seeing it get the boot at some point.
Last edited:
Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?
I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.
One thing that stands out to me is a lack of priority. I don't know if Rillaboom is the answer you are looking for because Kyurem resists Grassy Glide, but you could add priority, passive recovery, and EQ resistance for your Okidogi and steels by replacing Serp for it.
Another thing that stands out to me is your Fire weakness. 4/6 of your mons are weak to Fire with no resists.
As for Kyruem, Av Crown is one of the better checks you could run. Tinkaton is decent, too. But I don't know what you are running it for besides rocks.
sinistcha isnt weak to fire, still agree tho, this team gets eaten alive by iron moth.
Any tips for being stuck in 1300s for months after reaching 1800. This ladder feels equally difficult at all elos for some reason.
That's true. I forgot about Heatproof.
Posting here cuz I've ran into a bit of a team building issue. This is a team I've been using and largely gliding along fine with, but I'm been repeatedly running into the hard problem known as "Kyruem fucking destroys me" due to its mixed sets. Serperior has let me glide up pretty high but is starting to show its wear and tear (it's a physdef set with rocky helmet, don't ask) so I was thinking of replacing it. Based on the team, what's a mon that stands out that would help with my current crushing Kyruem problem?
I've tried Prima and Darkrai, but with the current line up I have they didn't feel too stellar. Ground/Ice in one combo is a pretty hellish thing to deal with when it's on the SPA side.
I’m not sure what your Tinkaton set is, but if you haven’t already, I’d recommend trying out Air Balloon with Pickpocket as an ability. As long as Air Balloon isn’t popped you get a very free switchin into Kyurem. Pickpocket synergizes nicely with Air Balloon since once its popped you can steal other mons’ items upon contact.
I would also look into replacing Crown with Psyshock Glowking to deal with Iron Moth.
Whenever you lose a match, I recommend saving your reply and watching it later. The games you lose are more valuable for learning than the games you win. Watch the replay and ask yourself what factors contributed to the loss and what you would have done differently. See if you can identity any pivotal turn(s) with misplays that contributed to the outcome. Or if there are team composition issues that became evident during the match.
Happy to discuss more in DMs with regards to teambuilding too.
Last edited:
Rekka's Backend, Iron Crown works best on Bulky Offense structures that can take advantage of the momentum it generates whereas your team is really slow.
I believe having Sinistcha and Guard Dog Okidogi on the same team is also kind of overkill, and it seems you clearly have PTSD from Zamazenta to be running both on the same team.
In Gen 9, it's kind of hard for a team with no priority, phazing, or speed control to succeed. And I do believe your team will prevent you from rising further.
I believe having Sinistcha and Guard Dog Okidogi on the same team is also kind of overkill, and it seems you clearly have PTSD from Zamazenta to be running both on the same team.
In Gen 9, it's kind of hard for a team with no priority, phazing, or speed control to succeed. And I do believe your team will prevent you from rising further.
Last edited:
this is scary
For reference my Tink's set is Thunderwave/Knock/Hammer/Rocks. Usually I use it to set rocks against Hatters or Thunderwave Gargs/Ghold's a lot. Largely because I've found a lot of games end in needing to bruteforce against these two at times to open up teams. Glowking isn't a poke I've used a lot, but Psychock is a very interesting option--I'll give it a run and see how it fairs.
This is a very good good point as well. Okidoki I usually bring out soon as all SPA attackers are out of the picture as It's Def invested so it can almost always tank EQ's after one or two Bulk ups. Committing Tera fighting on rillaboom sounds funny to snipe a Kyurem so I might play with surprise factor.
Since I forgot to include it originally, here's a pokepaste for anyone that was curious: https://pokepast.es/adc00e2f296720c6 I just realized I aksed this question without dropping that due to posting late at night and being partially awake lol. Thanks for the replies thus far, I'll definitely experiment with things.
I've been pretty lucky to have not many Iron Moths on the ladder for some reason, but in hindsight I definitely see the danger involved. Usually i've just relied on Tera Water and Psychic noise into Typhon, but I think I'll have to future proof against fire types a bit harder.
strength sap ferro somebody please silence this person before game freak gets any ideas omg
You'd either need to be a world-class orator and streamer, have mind control methods to use versus Chaos and the OU Council, or be the first to discover new arguments in favor of a ban.
The last two surveys showed a steady 25% support for taking action, so you'll need to convince a great many players that don't currently view it as a problem.