that calc is so fucked up. if you can get even a little bit of chip on dondozo it's already over
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 ( NEW SURVEY UP, POST 20,700 )
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
that calc is so fucked up. if you can get even a little bit of chip on dondozo it's already over
I know you're proposing this 'cause Ctc or whatever his username is changed the tides last time, but I believe it will probably be obvious in OLT whether Gouging Fire is a problem. People changing their minds 'cause a top player said otherwise might not happen a second time.
nah, i just think he's going to have a straight-up meltdown in the second suspect thread and get banned again. the volc ban made him mald so hard that he made a whole pr thread demanding a retest and to be let onto the council, i don't think he's going to take a second gouging suspect sitting down and i'd like to spare the community from that
I don’t claim to be the first one to have brought this set up, but I would say I’m one of the first to entertain the idea. Regardless of if you think Kyurem was broken even before this set took off, Sub-Tect did spark this discussion in recent memory. I think its too early to take action on anything rn and if I’m being for real, I think the meta is fine. There’s some meta developments I wanna discuss, but I’ll wait for Cycle 2 to finish beforehand.
To continue the spark of discussion. What are you’re thoughts on these mons in the meta? Should they be suspected or nah?
i say all of them deserve suspects. to be perfectly clear, i don't think zamazenta is banworthy and i would vote dnb if it were suspected, but i think it's too contentious to not be suspected. of course, i would put this lower on the priority list than the other three and multiple other mons (gambit, ghold, waterpon, and the two other unbanned mons from dlc1), but i do think it should eventually happenTo continue the spark of discussion. What are you’re thoughts on these mons in the meta? Should they be suspected or nah?
as for the other guys, i can't say for certain which one i would suspect first right now. they're all problematic, but the problematicity of each one relative to the others is in a state of flux right now because of the amount of exploration and innovation that olt has spurred. i'll wait to make a judgement call until one of the three properly solidifies itself as the premier threat and we can rally behind that
I'll say that I can see a case for all 3 of Darkrai, Kyurem, and Gouging Fire to be suspected, but I'm still convinced Zamazenta has no business being suspected as it is the main reason SV OU is even playable due to how it limits physical offense. If Zama were to be banned, we would need to ban a lot more mons, and I think that scenario is what a lot of offense players hope doesn't happen.
Here's your monthly Rekless Reminder that most (if not all) of these mons would not be nearly as much of an issue to prep for if Tera was gone. I'm just happy we're getting some potential suspects, even if it's at the end of August. Regarding the dog being a lower priority: Zama is a band-aid on a busted meta and ripping that band-aid off would expose Gen 9 OU for the fraudulence that it is. Either way, the ladder will be dead again after OLT, so this will hopefully bring some people back.
Gourging Fire can be scary under sun, since that will acitvate it's Protosynthesis.
View attachment 656526
I don’t claim to be the first one to have brought this set up, but I would say I’m one of the first to entertain the idea. Regardless of if you think Kyurem was broken even before this set took off, Sub-Tect did spark this discussion in recent memory. I think its too early to take action on anything rn and if I’m being for real, I think the meta is fine. There’s some meta developments I wanna discuss, but I’ll wait for Cycle 2 to finish beforehand.
To continue the spark of discussion. What are you’re thoughts on these mons in the meta? Should they be suspected or nah?
I think kyurem warrants a resuspect ASAP, and i wouldn't be opposed to gouging fire getting resuspected as well. the other two pokemon are perfectly fine, for now at least
However, even in sun it is countered by Dachsbun, a physical wall that Gouging Fire teams must be built to handle due to how it invalidates the Gouger.
The only thing can hit Dachsbun is Iron Head, which almost Gouging Fire never uses it. a Tera Steel Choice Band Protosynthesis with Max Attack will OHKO the Dachsbun.
that's what i'm sayin fr. real agents use pokemon like abomasnow and forretress to beat gouging fire
Like, a Forretress at full health tries to bait Gourging Fire to Flare Blitz it, then survives it thanks to Sturdy and retaliates with Counter. Then to make it hold a Custap Berry to the mix to set Steath Rock or Spikes before fainting.
I've been building various weather teams for fun and I have to say that sun has easily been the one that feels easiest to build due to its sheer toys lmao. Been doing DD Gouging with dragon tail utility and then a CB variant, both feel downright nasty to do and in comparison to rain or even terrain teams its like mashing your face over a keyboard. Having fucking Raging Bolt to counter act a lot of play is pretty crazy too.
Drop one
?
I don’t think darkrai is a problem. Sub NP twave is a scam set that shouldn’t exist, but other than that I think there are sufficient stops to this. Try NP dark/psyshock/stellar blast if you want to see people cry a problem solely bc of Tera. Any special attacking sets are non-issue. Just cheesy when it dd Tera fire/elec and you lose bc offensive counterplay is removed too. This is the case for all setup sweepers in a game with Tera!!! it’s too fat. The damage isn’t a problem. Exacerbated by being impossible to kill if it has Tera available. Suspect. jokester move letting this back into OU. Just send this stat pile back to Uber and it will become a lot clearer what a mess the tier is beneath this holding everything in place.I think only zamazenta is a true problem. Everything else, like
, along with a number of defensive Pokémon are big problems bc of Tera, but I would rather lose Tera than 10+ Pokémon. If none of the above is going to occur, then I would like to see some stuff dropped. Regieleki would be a nice spinner and momentum-based offensive tool (in contrast to the setup and blast HOs that exist now.), whereas something like 
would be a nice stop to the turbo stupid bulk cores of gliscor + gking + gargif we’re making our bed with Tera, may as well have fun with it
Imo
View attachment 656526
I don’t claim to be the first one to have brought this set up, but I would say I’m one of the first to entertain the idea. Regardless of if you think Kyurem was broken even before this set took off, Sub-Tect did spark this discussion in recent memory. I think its too early to take action on anything rn and if I’m being for real, I think the meta is fine. There’s some meta developments I wanna discuss, but I’ll wait for Cycle 2 to finish beforehand.
To continue the spark of discussion. What are you’re thoughts on these mons in the meta? Should they be suspected or nah?
is what's keeping the meta in check and if it's going, then fuck . Im finding with subtect or specs to be hard to deal with and is way too bulky, strong and decently fast AND has recovery in morn sun
I think only zamazenta is a true problem. Everything else, like
if we’re making our bed with Tera, may as well have fun with it
gonna need some elaboration on how zamazenta is top 1 broken but urshifu should be allowed to roam freely in OU. like yeah the latter rips through common defensive cores but that doesn't really matter when urshifu also rips through everything else in the tier
To continue the spark of discussion. What are you’re thoughts on these mons in the meta? Should they be suspected or nah?
Suspect Kyurem its been fucking broken ever since it was first suspected. Second suspect would still be Waterpon. I dont think Gouging Fire is broken at all, although dtail sets are cool, Zamazenta is a hard dnb, and Darkrai is kinda annoying sometimes but i wouldnt suspect it, certainly not right now.
I also mentioned that Waterpon in rain hits hard after a swords dance and tera.
+2 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem in Rain: 405-477 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem in Rain: 405-477 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
gonna set up an SD right in front of kyurem with my ogerpon as they sub. my opponent will be so confused by my play that they'll be too flabbergasted to even go for an attack. incredible observation hyper gooner, you've done it again
Kyurem also takes 120 bp damage from Low Kick and Grass Knot (which it will nail it under tera ground)
At least Waterpon doesn't take x4 damage from Freeze-Dry when it teralizes, it simply gets 2HKOd (Useless it crits). Light Screen support allows waterpon to live longer against Kyurem. Other fun fact, Freeze-Dry activates Yache Berry for water type pokemon.