Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597]

Seems like you need to take a few days away from the game and enjoy the view around you. It’s just a game. It’s okay to step away.
Well, yeah, who said I haven't? Nothing I wrote suggests otherwise. That seems an odd response given the doom and gloom I normally see here. Something was said that I found disagreeable, and I found the rebuttal also disagreeable. I'll always take issue with the notion that people are merely "getting off" on complaining, so to speak. Most here have made rather good points on all accords, even if there have been people whom took it too far. Their arguments deserve respect.

That aside, while I may not like the state of the game, I don't think it's anybody's fault. Nobody but the devs. The council, the player base, we've done a decent job of patching this up to our standards. I'm able to naysay because I've seen the results of proper action - didn't take long before things were good last dlc, and I dont think this meta will stay the way it is for long either.
 
no one is claiming it's unkillable, it has no recovery moves. You people act like Pokémon are only "banworthy" when they one shot everything, never die, and win the game instantly upon being sent out. It's true, once you hit it with several neutral special moves it does eventually die. I like how you say "Just use a few moves" oh a few huh? How many? So I'm supposed to give it how many free turns? Turns it can use to electro shot, turns it can use to get free kills (in fact While these "a few special moves" are being used on arch it usually claims a ko or two) not to mention that every time you attack it stamina procs. So your suggested counterplay involves boosting the power of body press to the moon. Archaludon is a killable Mon, sure, that is what happens when a Pokémon has no recovery. But what does it do while you're killing it and is it ok?
You're ignoring my other points. Arch has legitimate counterplay in pokemon you would want to use already because they are good. Chilly Reception neuters the special boosting and then you can literally just burn it with your will o of choice to neuter body press. I'm not pretending that Arch is bad, but I am saying that I think there's an extent where people are just playing into it wrong.
 
I'm not pretending that Arch is bad, but I am saying that I think there's an extent where people are just playing into it wrong.
I resonate with this. In that I hardly talk about Arch here because I can't tell if it's a skill issue on my part or if it's really a bullshit mon.
 
I resonate with this. In that I hardly talk about Arch here because I can't tell if it's a skill issue on my part or if it's really a bullshit mon.
It's definitely a mix of both. Arch is definitely a bullshit pokemon, but, at least at my ladder ranking, a lot of the wins I get off of his back are honestly because my opponent is just playing into it wrong. I'm guilty of this too there's a reason I'm extremely low 1500s at best, but at its core Arch is basically the hippo in super auto pets: easy to play into wrong and easy to win with but very easy to punish if you know how.
 
It's definitely a mix of both. Arch is definitely a bullshit pokemon, but, at least at my ladder ranking, a lot of the wins I get off of his back are honestly because my opponent is just playing into it wrong. I'm guilty of this too there's a reason I'm extremely low 1500s at best, but at its core Arch is basically the hippo in super auto pets: easy to play into wrong and easy to win with but very easy to punish if you know how.
All of this! I'm a primarily defensive player, and I'm at a loss when I come to it. Along with the stress (and I use that word lightly, people) of the opponents play - if I'm playing a competent opponent, they aren't gonna toss it out willy nilly. Unless they do! It feels like I need to make the right move at all times the second I see it on preview.
 
I figured I'd finally get started on OU once the Kyurem ban was done and then another suspect started right after that one. Oh well, might as well hop in.

For rain teams with bridge dragon, are people just running Archaludon/Pelipper/Barraskewda/Treads + 2 others? It feels like rain has a very concrete core, I've been trying Kingambit + Meow for my last two.
 

Finchinator

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For rain teams with bridge dragon, are people just running Archaludon/Pelipper/Barraskewda/Treads + 2 others? It feels like rain has a very concrete core, I've been trying Kingambit + Meow for my last two.
Yes, we see a lot of Raging Bolt, Manaphy, Rillaboom, Greninja, and Tornadus-T on these teams, too, but Arch Peli Skewda Treads are all staples
 

viivian

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Do people who qualified for kyurem suspect really need to earn reqs all over again?
a lot of the qualified voters for the kyurem suspect wanted immediate action on archaludon, including top players like vert and maverick shooters. so yes i do think most people who acquired reqs for the kyurem suspect are willing to do so again for archaludon
 
Yes, we see a lot of Raging Bolt, Manaphy, Rillaboom, Greninja, and Tornadus-T on these teams, too, but Arch Peli Skewda Treads are all staples
I forgot Manaphy existed for a moment, I don't see it much anymore. What happened? Trends no longer favored it (until now)? I remember people thinking it problematic.
 
character development time: after careful consideration and actually trying out rain archaludon for real, i've gone from 90% in favor of it staying to 100% in favor of getting that shit outta here. this thing is fucking unbeatable in rain and stamina lets it live shit that nothing has any business living, especially if you invest in defense, which i experimented with and produced some truly vile results (at one point i was at +2 with 15% hp and lived a +2 population bomb, which is an interaction that should literally never happen). i hereby disavow any pro-archaludon posts i made in the past and sincerely apologize for telling people to "just play around it bro" as though that's somehow an achievable option when hitting it does nothing except make it stronger. this mon is just annihilape 2: electric boogaloo and i mean the electric part literally
 
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It's still perfectly usable; it is just overwhelmed by the abundance of threats it competes with that happen to be favorable into it like Walking Wake, Raging Bolt, etc.
Yeah I do think it's an unfortunate case of RUBL by usage because it's very usable in OU - with Tail Glow, its offenses aren't really the problem and it has a good defensive typing but its really held back by base 100 speed. Even though it has the coverage to kill almost everything, it gets revenge killed very easily.

Base 100, not base 90, my bad, but I think my point generally still stands about it getting revenge killed.
 
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Yeah I do think it's an unfortunate case of RUBL by usage because it's very usable in OU - with Tail Glow, its offenses aren't really the problem and it has a good defensive typing but its really held back by base 90 speed. Even though it has the coverage to kill almost everything, it gets revenge killed very easily.
with how strong rain is right now, i'm genuinely considering slotting manaphy onto a team. i think it might actually be time for the hydration rest set to live up to its full potential
 
I heavily value archaludon in this current metagame and i have been playing lots if games recently and archaludon has appeared in ALOT, but its never been backbreaking when i played against it and never felt busted when i used on my rain team,

its simply failed to create the unhealthy dynamics that broken tend to do or warp the meta around itself in the games i’ve been playing, its most certainly good but far from broken to me, i will be voting dnb as its often revenge killed by special or super effective attacks before it can spiral out of control
 
The six of Barra / Arch / Peli / Gambit / Treads / Raging probably gives you the best match-up coverage overall. Balloon Gambit gives you insurance vs Kyurem, check Pult (which imo is one of the hardest MUs to overcome for rain in general), and has secondary priority for Walking Wake under sun (another incredibly difficult MU for Rain IMO). Raging Bolt gives you even more insurance vs Walking Wake with its own powerful priority, and acts as a secondary Ogerpon-W check, and a powerful secondary breaker / wincondition, which is great if you are good at misplaying Arch like me. Iron Treads just does the most for rain in general, providing pivoting support, a raging bolt check, glim check, pivoting, etc. For reference, the current rain team I'm using runs Iron Crown / Landorus-T / Hatterene, which takes 3 slots to provide the same utility Iron Treads provides in one lol.

So far, the hardest MUs imo when using this team are Hatterene, HSam, Specs Pult, Raging Bolt, Walking Wake, Ogerpon-W, Keldeo, Tyranitar, Alolan Ninetales, Clodsire, and Quaquaval. Gambit / Iron Treads / Raging Bolt aren't perfect vs all these threats, but they have a much easier time vs them than my current lineup imo.
 

FayaWizard

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check Pult (which imo is one of the hardest MUs to overcome for rain in general)
Neat rain tip: if you tera water skewda you have a 25% chance to flat out ohko dpult from full, and rocks turns that 25% into a guarenteed kill.

To make this not a one liner, I think Archaludon is broken just for the sheer number of supposedly good checks into rain that get blown up by it.
Waterpon is forced to run Low Kick or die (and even then you are forced to blank into Bolt), Electro Shot + Draco heavily chips Gking, threatens Water Absorb Clodsire and forces it to run Amnesia lest Arch just spam Electro Shot to stack up before hitting hard with Flash Cannon or Draco, 1v1s other Archaludons with Draco and BPress, threatens Ttar with BPress on the switch, and the list just goes on and on.
 
Not related to ou in the slightest but comfey is about to get banned for doing what so many mons have been doing this gen with cm and stored power alongside tera, Listen idgaf about tera at this point because people don't want a suspect but how many more mons are going to abuse tera+ stored power and ruin meta's and get themselves banned before we just squash the damn thing?
 
kingambit on its way to ruin your game when you tera your fighting type to secure a KO:
flash-run.gif


Not related to ou in the slightest but comfey is about to get banned for doing what so many mons have been doing this gen with cm and stored power alongside tera, Listen idgaf about tera at this point because people don't want a suspect but how many more mons are going to abuse tera+ stored power and ruin meta's and get themselves banned before we just squash the damn thing?
wtf are you talking about I have not seen comfey a single time and low ladder has a fucking fetish for stored power
 

FayaWizard

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Not related to ou in the slightest but comfey is about to get banned for doing what so many mons have been doing this gen with cm and stored power alongside tera, Listen idgaf about tera at this point because people don't want a suspect but how many more mons are going to abuse tera+ stored power and ruin meta's and get themselves banned before we just squash the damn thing?
What are you talking about? No one is talking about a Comfey ban in OU, and if you're talking about a lower tier, why are you bringing it up in the OU discussion thread? Stored power has been very annoying over this gen, but mostly has fallen off with DLC 2 due to the presence of many more immediate and powerful threats, as well as a lot more dark types dropping into the tier.
 
character development time: after careful consideration and actually trying out rain archaludon for real, i've gone from 90% in favor of it staying to 100% in favor of getting that shit outta here. this thing is fucking unbeatable in rain and stamina lets it live shit that nothing has any business living, especially if you invest in defense, which i experimented with and produced some truly vile results (at one point i was at +2 with 15% hp and lived a +2 population bomb, which is an interaction that should literally never happen). i hereby disavow any pro-archaludon posts i made in the past and sincerely apologize for telling people to "just play around it bro" as though that's somehow an achievable option when hitting it does nothing except make it stronger. this mon is just annihilape 2: electric boogaloo and i mean the electric part literally
Annihilape! Of course! I knew my Blood Moon comparisons felt off.
kingambit on its way to ruin your game when you tera your fighting type to secure a KO: View attachment 601751


wtf are you talking about I have not seen comfey a single time and low ladder has a fucking fetish for stored power
I'm like what? I heard it was good but damn why wasn't I using it if it's that good, I love stored power guess my elo
 
It's fascinating how the meta evolves constantly, not long ago, sun was so predominant and was causing havoc and now rain is pouring and it's flooding the tier to the point of making 1 pokemon broken or almost broken and making a skinny ass fish jump from RU to OU. I hope sand sees a surge too eventually but with so few users of it, I doubt it.
 

viivian

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wtf are you talking about I have not seen comfey a single time and low ladder has a fucking fetish for stored power
i've seen (and used) comfey a lot up in the 1700-1800 ELO range, it's a really fun anti-meta pick imo. it's held back by its lack of immediate damage but +3 priority on draining kiss alongside stored power + CM cheese is huge. usually it only fits on terrain offenses w/ rillaboom though so it's not a very splashable pokemon, could explain why you're not seeing it super often

there's also a few SPL replays where comfey manages to pull off late-game sweeps, as seen below
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-741008
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-742734
 
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Okay I'm sorry to ask again but I'm really not that imaginative. Why the hell is Treads good on rain all of a sudden? What does it have over Tusk? I took a sample rain team and jumped on the ladder after some time off, switched my Treads into Arch and then realize they hadnt even given it EQ? Like I fail to see how it synergizes with Peli and Arch and Barra. Sorry and thank you.
 

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