Thanks I really appreciate it. I’ll move off of the boots spam team and check out some SPL replays. I will say, I did start using AV Glowking and immediately switched in a loaded dice Kyurem, so I still think it’s a joke that Pokemon is in the tier.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
this isnt really true. boots glowking does an okay job either way although its shaky. the issue is that boots glowking is a way more splashable set than AV and to be honest there's already limited defensive counterplay to kyurem; either gking (with your argument that its only AV, a much less splashable set, making it even less), spdef garg, mola + non-tran freeze dry resist, or the fake spdef clef being the only real defensive counterplay. Also, "feasts on balance" is a problem because balance is essentially supposed to be the most reliable team style; the closer to HO and stall you get the more fishy it tends to be bc there can be auto-lose mus. something feasting on balance is a problem.
Blizzard doing 49% to bulky Kingambit is kinda out-of-pocket.
Off your replay, you do make some mistakes. For example, I saw no reason to click Ice Shard here unless this is Adamant. Even so, Knock was the best play here. Since Kyu revealed itself to be Blizzard, I think the play here was to Tera Water Glowking early. With Protect Gliscor + Gambit/Weavile, you shouldn’t have trouble switching into Freeze Dry anyways. The team itself has a nice structure, but I do not like Glowking and Clef together. Glowking cuts off Moonlights recovery. I would either replace Glowking or Clef.
On a side note, I think there should be a forum dedicated to reviewing replays and giving feedback (if it doesn’t already exist). I’ve heard players feel left out due to the high skill ceiling of SV OU and any sort of help could lift up the community. This isn’t a request, just something I’ve noticed.
Yes they are, especially with things like Gliscor naturally fitting. You just have to be particular with them.
Could you elaborate a bit or drop a successful one? Thanks.
No problem. I would caution against just swapping the glowking set without any other changes since the team doesn't have much in the way of removal. Maybe finch can help.
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I peaked and won in SPL with this: https://pokepast.es/9318f755bbee6f88
Just one of many examples of balance tbh. You usually see 2-3 HDB + a Gliscor or Clef type with PH to negate or MG to ignore hazards.
Overall, these type of teams are solid, but need to be very cognizant of topical breakers like Wellspring and Booster Gouging. They’re still among the most consistent I’d say.
Thanks!
BobbyHill You seem chill, do you have a Discord? I'm also a balance player. I'd be down to brainstorm some team ideas.
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Your opponent did a good job stopping hazards with taunt torn in the early game. Big thing I noticed is that you didn't attack it all. I would have attacked Kyurem with Clefable rather than risk losing Weavile. Either knock its specs off or moonblast for good damage. The most Clef was contributing to this match was rocks specifically for Kyurem and its gonna struggle to heal with snow everywhere. Moonblast from Clef would have dropped it in range for Weavile to revenge or knock something else if they switch. That's a good trade. No damage on Kyurem led to you sacking Gambit later anyway and tera dark Gambit was your best tool for Dondozo. If you give a free switch to a strong balance breaker like Kyurem it's always gonna be bad. Better to just get damage on it if possible in situations like that so you can kill it later with something else.
Another idea, since Kyurem keeps giving you problems try using it and see how other balance builds deal with it. It fits like glue on balance builds with glowking and hazards that you're using already.
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I have a habit of not using the so called broken threats. I guess subconsciously I'm like this mf ain't that good. I don't think I used volc all of this gen until now. I'm using qd fd wow morning sun tera grass w HDB. If you don't have a flash fire mon and I get in a QD, and there's no fast proto mon, and WOW hits your physical mon I can win a good amount of games with it.
Sticky web bee leads usually get me +3 off the rip and if it's not GG from there I'm at least taking something good out. To clear the way.
But some games it does nothing. I tried giga drain instead of morning sun but you need to recovery to set up on non-toxic gking and similar.
Sticky web bee leads usually get me +3 off the rip and if it's not GG from there I'm at least taking something good out. To clear the way.
But some games it does nothing. I tried giga drain instead of morning sun but you need to recovery to set up on non-toxic gking and similar.
I believe this is why Volc is controversial in the first place, right? As the “matchup moth” it has a wild amount of versatility (and the ability to win games on preview sometimes) that Tera exacerbates, making it hard to build checks to it because it can change type + add a STAB on the fly to make it less manageable?
My view on Gen 9 OU is limited as I don’t play the meta often, but this is the impression I got.
What’s the Tera ice Kyurem answer on these teams? Everyone seems mum on this or just says “outplay”. I understand hazards help but typically Kyurem teams will run multiple forms of hazard control. Blizzard/freeze-dry specs Kyu absolute tears through every boots spam I try to build.
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Zama and Pult outrun and KO, Ting Lu trades about half health and keeps it low no matter what with SR if it’s not Boots, Gambit wins 1v1, and GKing chews 2 + has Tera Water + pivots into faster Pkmn.
I do think Kyurem is pretty dumb, but that team is better into it than most.
If volc gets banned i think we are getting a future suspect on kyurem. The freezy dry boots set is by far its best set and volc was the only thing besides gking that can answer it in balance/offensive teams, and gking is too passive, kyurem was actually a place for volc to set up. Volcarona is broken tho.
This boots freeze dry set has no power. You are barely 2HKOing physically defensive Corviknight with Ice Beam after Rocks and hits just bounce off of other mons like Clefable, Tera Fairy Garganacl, etc. in addition to struggling vs Zama. Offensive teams have plenty of counterplay between various AV mons like Iron Crown, balloon Gambit/Ghold, etc. Frankly, I still believe other balance breakers like Darkrai, SD Gliscor, or Ogerpon-W will be more difficult to answer for balance teams in a meta without Volcarona.
This. If Kyurem at some point ends up banned (hopefully not) it will be either because of the Specs or DD Sub Protect sets. Boots is totally balanced and check either offensively or defensively by half of the meta.
I have to desagree. Its not that kyurem kills everything with its boots set, its that nothing can reliably deal with it on the course of the game. Besides clearly defensive mons like calm clef, everything on balance is threatened to some degree by kyurem. If a mon has to tera to deal with another i dont see that as a check, just an emergency batton, so i dont count fairy garga as a check. Same with balloon gambit or ghold, those will switch in once on an ice move and then wont be able to take on kyurem. Specs is inmediate and really dangerous and DD subs can be deadly in many situations, but ice+ground+freezy dry on a mon so bulky, with boots and decent speed is another level. Sure there are offensive checks to it but my point is that without volc balance teams are destroyed by kyurem, and dont even get me started on freezes . Not saying that its an obvious uber but its really annoying.
Does anyone have advice for dealing with HO? I feel like I’ve been losing to just awful teams lately. Unless I’m running unaware pokemon I really struggle, especially with Tera. It can be an NU Mon and I’ll find a way to lose. I know move like encore help, but they still feel a hit prediction reliant.
Don't know what your team is or what specific HO mons you struggle with, but you need to keep checks healthy if you can't deny setup, if your opponent gets setup + your check is too unhealthy you lose. Priority and smart tera usage can also be key.
Edit: another common mistake is leading against HO, every turn and every bit of chip is important, don't brainlessly antilead say glimm with great tusk, consider great tusk getting earth powered and possibly failing to check insert physical sweeper, many times its better to just allow stealth rock.
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Typically I lose to veil+ a lesser used or “gimmick” set up Mon that I don’t know the full move set of or makes it hard to diagnose the proper check. It often feels like with Tera HO always is one step ahead.
I would request this. This gen has felt increasingly unwelcoming as a newer player. it feels like you need to be perfect every turn or you lose. I understand improvement is not linear and that there are more valuable turns than others but the meta doesn’t seem great for improving because mistakes are so costly. Sample teams are great but are quickly taken advantage of and team building is usually just throwing things at the wall until I stop tilting.
Just wanted to bring this up but do any of you feel 
may fall off in the viability ranking? I've been using it lately and it feels like it harder to spin than ever. The rise of bulky Gholdengo being able to live headlong due to bulky sets, flame body Volc/ heatran punishing spin, and just faster threats forcing it out like Kyurem or Val makes spinning a pain. It def still S-/ A+ material but it just doesn't feel nearly as good as it once did. It also doesn't help that more ground types like lando and gliscor have been seeing success recently as well
may fall off in the viability ranking? I've been using it lately and it feels like it harder to spin than ever. The rise of bulky Gholdengo being able to live headlong due to bulky sets, flame body Volc/ heatran punishing spin, and just faster threats forcing it out like Kyurem or Val makes spinning a pain. It def still S-/ A+ material but it just doesn't feel nearly as good as it once did. It also doesn't help that more ground types like lando and gliscor have been seeing success recently as well
The Tusk will adapt, the Tusk will outspin, no one can stop the Tusk, for it is the greatest.Just wanted to bring this up but do any of you feel
- Sun Tzu: Art of War
I think the whole Tusk has fallen off thing is a bit of an overreaction tbh. I can see why people are saying it, though A+ rank is way too low even if tusk has fallen off. It is by far and large the best hazard removal in the tier and while we have seen the rise of teams that just ignore hazards, many mons appreciate them being gone. It also is the most offensively threatening ground by quite a lot, for example +2 SD gliscor e-quake does 77% to i-val (I'm using the calc sets to be more consistent) while offensive tusk headlong rush at neutral does 74%. This is massive, especially with dealing with bolt and the various steel and fire types. It also feels like it can mix and match it's moveset a decent amount. You have headlong rush for stab, but that's the only 'necessary' move (though rapid spin is mostly needed, but can technically be dropped). From there, you can choose all of ice spinner, cc, knock off,roar, taunt, bulk up, stealth rock, temper flare, supercell slam and even smack down works to deal with Volc. Compare that to other grounds, who mostly have the same sets (with the exception of gliscor and sometimes Lando-T) and the set variety is amazing.Just wanted to bring this up but do any of you feel
Other ground types are great (though I do believe gliscor is overrated, but that's already been discussed), but tusk I think is the best. The only close one is Lando-T (it's surreal when you realise that it was going to fall to UU at one point) and I would say tusk firmly wins the debate.
TLDR, tusk is still S rank material.
There certainly is more competition for it this DLC than in the last one. With so many Dragon and Dark-types being good, Tusk sharing weaknesses to Fairy and Ice moves can make it tougher to fit onto teams compared to other Ground-types like Lando-T, Gliscor, or even Iron Treads. That being said, it still is a great Pokemon with tons of utility. Defensive Ghold making a comeback is IMO good for Tusk. It means you can get away with more defensive EV spreads or an Adamant nature without getting sniped by fast Ghold's Make It Rain. Several Ghold variants are also ditching Air Balloon for other items like Boots, which makes Tusk perform better against it. IMO the T-Wave Hex set that is seeing some popularity also just hates Ground-types in general, esp if it ditches Make it Rain for another move like Focus Blast, which Tusk can benefit from.Just wanted to bring this up but do any of you feel
Tusk certainly has more competition for its role as a Bulky Utility/Glue Ground, but I wouldn't say it necessarily got worse into the Meta, which would be what I personally base a potential drop around. Teams ignoring Hazards can eschew Tusk, but then they have either concerns about stacking Weaknesses like Ice (Gliscor, Lando) or REALLY needing to lean on Knock Off Absorbers to preserve Boots/Leftovers. Besides Spinning, Tusk can be things like the Knock Off user, Wallbreaker, Defensive check, or a Win Condition with BU, and the team doesn't strictly give away what role(s) it plays on a team.
We see how rapidly the Meta adapts to things like Gouging Fire over the course of a Suspect, or the short period between Archaludon's low survey and high Rain Winrate, so even if Superman teams caused Tusk to drop, I would be confident adaptions to said teams would cause teams wanting Hazard control to catch up and raise Tusk right back up. Balance teams like the one Finch shared have multiple members afraid of its STABs and/or Knock Off removing their items (Zamazenta and Dragapult survives without Boots even if burning), I think you'd be hard pressed to find a match in which a team uses Tusk and it doesn't have work to put in with whatever set it pulls out of the Toolbox, which is at least what I personally attribute the S-Rank to: Pokemon who excel in one or more roles, and typically lack for flaws that make them replaceable on a team without major rework ripples due to how they play. Even if Lando-T competes with Tusk on several roles, Tusk is still competent and distinct enough in them that slotting Lando in does not guarantee the team remains equal or better as a single change
We see how rapidly the Meta adapts to things like Gouging Fire over the course of a Suspect, or the short period between Archaludon's low survey and high Rain Winrate, so even if Superman teams caused Tusk to drop, I would be confident adaptions to said teams would cause teams wanting Hazard control to catch up and raise Tusk right back up. Balance teams like the one Finch shared have multiple members afraid of its STABs and/or Knock Off removing their items (Zamazenta and Dragapult survives without Boots even if burning), I think you'd be hard pressed to find a match in which a team uses Tusk and it doesn't have work to put in with whatever set it pulls out of the Toolbox, which is at least what I personally attribute the S-Rank to: Pokemon who excel in one or more roles, and typically lack for flaws that make them replaceable on a team without major rework ripples due to how they play. Even if Lando-T competes with Tusk on several roles, Tusk is still competent and distinct enough in them that slotting Lando in does not guarantee the team remains equal or better as a single change