Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Just got suspect reqs, I was fully expecting to be on the ban side by the time I got them. But surprisingly I had very little trouble against Wake, if at all, and with a team that didn't even have clod, slowking or azu. I got swept by it once where it subbed in front of my pex and all my counterplay was dead. Against the standard sun set though, playing around it with Pex, Spdef Gholdengo and Spdef Rotom was honestly enough.
 
This brings to mind a "Best Value" version of Jaw Lock Roaring Moon combining a Boost and SS trapping, encumbered mainly by Decidueye's lack of speed boosting outside of Trailblaze, which makes for weak STAB.

I think ultimately the Alolan Bird is going to be a low tier player who pokes his head in for very fringe tournament counter picks at best. I'm curious how the Hisuian counterpart fares with Triple Arrow having like 3 effects but none too major. Both Decidueye seem burdened by their speed despite possessing respectively strong Offensive Types for this Gen.
Yeah, p. much. Has the advantage of not being forced to stay in like Roaring Moon if it f's up what its trapping, but the difference is that Moon has the stats of an Uber while Decidueye's stats would have a hard time cutting it in UU, so its match-up spread with such a set would be significantly worse. Still, like you said, it could be fun match-up fish, particularly against some Regenerator Pokemon.

Decidueye does have some utility moves like Knock Off, Defog, and U-Turn + a good offensive typing, but I agree that its speed just won't be cutting it, esp w/ all the Ghost and Dark moves flying around. Its gonna be competing with many significantly better Pokemon like Gholdengo, Skeledirge, etc. so players will need to get creative to utilize its unique traits over them. I think Hisui Decidueye would be able to find more of a niche in this meta since its typing and statline gives it a more favorable match-ups against non-CC Great Tusk, Kingambit, and Meowscarada, while also not being too bothered by the ghost in the tier like Gholdengo due to Scrappy, though who knows when that Pokemon will return.
 
Yeah, I'm honestly surprised y'all are talking about alolan over husian decidueye, while his trapping potential with tera is cool, I'm hype for triple arrow scrappy.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Yeah, I'm honestly surprised y'all are talking about alolan over husian decidueye, while his trapping potential with tera is cool, I'm hype for triple arrow scrappy.
That one won't be available til Home, no point in talking about it right now.
 

Soiramio3000

Banned deucer.
I just noticed something weird and I wonder if it was suppossed to happen or not:
pokemon apparently can't terastylize if they have to use struggle.
was this suppossed to happen or it has been wrongly implemended here?

(my kingabit got tricked to choice scarf and my opponent's meowscarada pp stalled the sucker punch).
 
In another set of news, for the people who are running sun, what's your way out of CM Hatterene?
[/QUOTE]

i usually blow it up with flash cannon on my av magnezone. If they they tera water blow it up with thunderbolt
 
I just noticed something weird and I wonder if it was suppossed to happen or not:
pokemon apparently can't terastylize if they have to use struggle.
was this suppossed to happen or it has been wrongly implemended here?

(my kingabit got tricked to choice scarf and my opponent's meowscarada pp stalled the sucker punch).
I don't have a Switch to test this, but usually in-game when you're forced to Struggle you do that automatically after pressing the FIGHT button, and the Terastalization button is inside the fight menu, so you don't get the chance to press it.
 

CaptainSC

THE 'Hype Boy'
is a Tiering Contributor
does anyone know why almost everyone lately is running bulk up great tusk?
It's really strong in this meta where sun is everywhere around the corner.+ tera fire tusk can set up on torkoal and become a set up sweeper while providing spin support. but u don't have to tera to beat the torkoal obviously.
 
you know I gave it some thought. What exactly switches into Choice Band Roaring Moon in Sun (+Atk) well?

This occurs more commonly with Walking Wake around, just food for thought.
Roaring Moon is the most insanely broken and entirely slept on mon of Gen 9. Nothing switches in reliably, not even the hardest of physical walls, unless you resist everything -
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 288-340 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I fully expect Sun to just become truly cracked and result in a ton of bans down the line when Home comes around. Venusaur at the least will be pretty terrifying for the coverage it gives to cover its proto teammates. Protosynthesis was just not meant to be a thing that existed, it's too cursed. God help us if we get Chilly Reception but in sun form.
 
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does anyone know why almost everyone lately is running bulk up great tusk?
In my opinion it always has been the best set for Tusk unless you want something too specific from him. Bulk up synergises very well with rapid spin a.k.a the move you always will run on Tusk anyway, with it you are able to punish physical sweepers that try to set up on Tusk like RM, Kingambit or Dragonite thinking they are safe thanks to tera. On top of that stab body press is also strong, but you would need to give up knock up for that.
 
Roaring Moon is the most insanely broken and entirely slept on mon of Gen 9. Nothing switches in reliably, not even the hardest of physical walls, unless you resist everything -
adamant dies to every scarfer though (plus pult once you reveal your speed tier), it never gets to stay in for multiple kills unless you save it till like the very very end of lategame. the real threat imo is the 220atk speed boosting set with band. It just gets to pivot on everything until it just decides it feels like it has enough chip and wants to start eating things. Way harder to deal with unless you have like scarf/booster valiant or something
 
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adamant dies to every scarfer though (plus pult once you reveal your speed tier), it never gets to stay in for multiple kills unless you save it till like the very very end of lategame. the real threat imo is the 220atk speed boosting set with band. It just gets to pivot on everything until it just decides it feels like it has enough chip and wants to start eating things. Way harder to deal with unless you have like scarf/booster valiant or something
That is true, yeah. Jolly + Tera Dark might be a better set overall but I guess the point I'm getting at is it's Chien Pao 2: Electric Boogaloo. Tear open the packet and just add sun.
I think people are starting to realize this and I think longterm, even if he's not banned, he's not healthy for the tier.
 
Roaring Moon is the most insanely broken and entirely slept on mon of Gen 9. Nothing switches in reliably, not even the hardest of physical walls, unless you resist everything -
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 288-340 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I fully expect Sun to just become truly cracked and result in a ton of bans down the line when Home comes around. Venusaur at the least will be pretty terrifying for the coverage it gives to cover its proto teammates. Protosynthesis was just not meant to be a thing that existed, it's too cursed. God help us if we get Chilly Reception but in sun form.
Dude this isn't November lol

Anyway Moon actually isn't that crazy. Adamant loses out on a lot of speed, being outsped by Wake, Zoro, Treads, and most notably, Iron Valiant. You're already outsped by the likes of Meow, Gren, Dragapult and speed tie with Ace even with a jolly nature too. Tusk is by far the best answer to it's band set, and with it being on more than every other team, Moon will have a lot of trouble making progress. DD Acro is pretty threatening, I'll give you that, but it too has good counterplay in Dozo, Defensive Rotom Wash, Ting Lu whirlwind, Kingambit, Bax etc.

All that said, Moon is still a fine mon in the meta but it requires skillful maneuvering and removing its checks. I'd say it's a healthy part of the metagame and far from "insanely broken".
 
Okay so I have been theorymonning about Decidueye

Decidueye @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- U-turn/Seed Bomb/Knock Off
- Roost
- Spirit Shackle

I think this has a niche as a defogger who does it better than corviknight LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

252 SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Tera Fighting Decidueye: 165-195 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO

160 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 158-188 (41.7 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

From the looks of it, it still has Knock Off, defog and roost, no other Pokémon right now has this combo of utility, it's slow and kinda frail, but thanks to Long Reach, an ability that is essentially Protective Pads, you can either keep momentum or brawl with stuff with no problem, it has good matchups with Ting Lu, Clodsire, garganacl, glimmora, these are common rockers

it cannot touch Garchomp, but if garchomp doesn't have a fire move then Garchomp cannot touch decidueye either

it has bad matchups aginst Tusk, Chomp running fire moves, torkoal, orthworm, which are even more common as rockers

it also has 4MSS, of the bad kind, meaning it doesn't have its true potential, but what do you guys think about this bit of theorymonning
I am curious, what's the reasoning behind Tera Fighting with no TB or other Fighting STAB to use with it? Why not Tera Dark, so you block Prankster shenanigans and stuff H-Zoroark?
Yeah, I'm honestly surprised y'all are talking about alolan over husian decidueye, while his trapping potential with tera is cool, I'm hype for triple arrow scrappy.
This also sounds kinda fun. Decidueye's stats feel a little all over the place... But maybe a fun set might come out of one or the other.
 

1LDK

Trial by fury
is a Top Team Rater
I am curious, what's the reasoning behind Tera Fighting with no TB or other Fighting STAB to use with it? Why not Tera Dark, so you block Prankster shenanigans and stuff H-Zoroark?
I was more focused on its matchup to the hazard metagame which is basically a hardcore monopoly game I guess tera dark works to troll grimmsnarl, but it makes the matchup against tusk even worse, as I said I didn't work too much on it, but I think Decidueye is in a Talonflame/Oricorio/Forretress spot where it has a niche thanks to Corviknight being so ASS this gen
 
I was more focused on its matchup to the hazard metagame which is basically a hardcore monopoly game I guess tera dark works to troll grimmsnarl, but it makes the matchup against tusk even worse, as I said I didn't work too much on it, but I think Decidueye is in a Talonflame/Oricorio/Forretress spot where it has a niche thanks to Corviknight being so ASS this gen
Fair play. There's various Tera types that could work for it, but with boots why bother factoring in hazards for Tera type?
 

1LDK

Trial by fury
is a Top Team Rater
but with boots why bother factoring in hazards for Tera type?
Not for the hazard damage itself, but for the hazard removal

:Gholdengo: Blocks all
:Dragapult: (((and :Zoroark-Hisui: at the moment))) Blocks Spin
:Garchomp: punishes spin attempts
:Garganacl: (((and :Kingambit: if defiant))) punishes defog attempts
----------------------------------------------------------------
:Great Tusk: :Ting-Lu: :Clodsire: :Garganacl: :Garchomp: :Torkoal: :Orthworm: :Meowscarada: :Glimmora: :Greninja: all set up rocks, spikes or both
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:Great Tusk: :Corviknight: :Scizor: :Talonflame: :Torkoal: :Hatterene: :Cinderace: :Glimmora: Remove hazards


(((I know there's more, but these are the popular ones)))
You will interact with these mons a lot in early/mid-game, therefore, I though having an overall neutral matchup for most of them would be better
 
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Not for the hazard damage itself, but for the hazard removal

:Gholdengo: Blocks all
:Dragapult: (((and :Zoroark-Hisui: at the moment))) Blocks Spin
:Garchomp: punishes spin attempts
:Garganacl: (((and :Kingambit: if defiant))) punishes defog attempts
----------------------------------------------------------------
:Great Tusk: :Ting-Lu: :Clodsire: :Garganacl: :Garchomp: :Torkoal: :Orthworm: :Meowscarada: :Glimmora: all set up rocks, spikes or both
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:Great Tusk: :Corviknight: :Scizor: :Talonflame: :Torkoal: Remove hazards


(((I know there's more, but these are the popular ones)))
You will interact with these mons a lot in early/mid-game, therefore, I though having an overall neutral matchup for most of them would be better
You could add Hatt and Ace as another way of "hazard" control.
 
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