Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[ritch.]

Ban Palafin next wave or smth get that shit out of here, it's on 90% of teams

 

[Callmeyeshua]

Talonflame can do it. There are also some other niche Defog options that may be possible, but I don't want to speculate on stuff that is so fringe right now. The real issue there is that Defog has a lot less distribution now. On the other hand, there are a lot more spinners. Great Tusk and Iron Treads beat Gholdengo. Torkoal is another option. You can absolutely find hazard clear on your team that can deal with Gholdengo.

Beat it how? They cant switch in and if its on a balloon it makes it even harder for them. The problem is that it isnt even passive, youll have a sball coming back at you and what if the ghol teras into flying to dodge the EQ…its too much to play around.

 

[TravisB]

Moving away from the endless Tera debate for a minute, what do people think of Iron Treads? I see a lot of hype over Great Tusk and rightfully so, but I feel people are overlooking its counterpart somewhat. I think Tusk is better in a vacuum but Treads can do stuff that Tusk can't like blocking Glimmora leads and beating Clodsire, Gholdengo, the occasional Hatterene and potentially Chien-Pao depending on the sets. Because of that, I find I'm using Treads a lot more than Tusk because it fits on teams easier. Treads obviously does have the massive disadvantage of being beaten by Tusk, but I'm curious as to other people's thoughts on it.

Its been really good for me. I haven't played a ton, but Ive been using it as a rocker/spinner on rain with flying tera type. Ive also been using Revavroom with flying tera type on rain and its surprisingly hard to kill despite its unimpressive bulk.

 

[Moyashi]

The general consensus was that Gen 8 OU was the worst meta since probably ADV. Boots, regenerator, knock off and scald spam. The entire meta in a nutshell.

Tiering surveys would strongly disagree with you. A small vocal minority complained about these things but the overall majority found it to be a solid tier. But honestly none of this has anything to do with SV OU so let's just not talk about another unrelated metagame.

Moving away from the endless Tera debate for a minute, what do people think of Iron Treads? I see a lot of hype over Great Tusk and rightfully so, but I feel people are overlooking its counterpart somewhat. I think Tusk is better in a vacuum but Treads can do stuff that Tusk can't like blocking Glimmora leads and beating Clodsire, Gholdengo, the occasional Hatterene and potentially Chien-Pao depending on the sets. Because of that, I find I'm using Treads a lot more than Tusk because it fits on teams easier. Treads obviously does have the massive disadvantage of being beaten by Tusk, but I'm curious as to other people's thoughts on it.

Treads is a great spinner and utility mon and I think it is highly underrated. It does match up a bit worse into some big threats right now but I highly suspect it will get significantly better as the metagame stabilizes. Being a spinner that beats Glimmora leads is really nice while also being a mon Gholdengo can't comfortably spinblock. A nice swiss army knife I think. Though i understand why Great Tusk is more popular right now. But Iron Treads' better defensive utility is nice.

 

[Zentrius]

i have a legitimately question that i think should be asked: is there any reason as to why we are going this fast with removing pokemon from the tier when the simulator is not 100% up to in-game mechanics?

the simulator as it is right now still has inconsistencies in regards to several mechanics in-game (namely revival blessing) so i personally dont think action should be taken this fast without a proper simulator that reflects to a t the mechanics of gen 9.

this is not to say that iron bundle palafin and the likes arent broken currently by the way; they are insanely problematic, but idk it just feels weird to me to tackle things this fast from a banning perspective when the meta still isnt set in stone at this point due to lack of proper mechanics in the simulator

 

[shadowpea]

im posting while reading almost 0% of the 45 pages of shit posted

thank god flutter mane was banned lmao. i never had a problem with it since my day 1 team had specially defensive tera-poison gambit but hey, i was using specially defensive tera-poison gambit. thats probably a half-decent ban argument right there. still find it funny that it lasted all of, what, 2 and a half days? i think this may be the fastest qb ou ever got (aside from zygod, but come on its zygod)

no comment on houndstone aside from thank god its banned too

shit after laddering:


Iron Moth @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire / Grass / Fairy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IV: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave / Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball / Dazzling Gleam
- U-turn

chi-yu is more powerful than this, but scarf moth can pivot, revenge ada booster valiant and randomly snipe palafin with tera grass. its still pretty damn good at cleaning games. i admit scarf chi-yu is probably better, especially given that moth is trying to be a rocks weak pivot, but eh on some of my teams being able to revenge roaring moon, ada valiant, and palafin goes a long way. sludge wave if you want reliable stab, gleam if you want to revenge roaring moon and shit (fairy tera resisting sucker punch is also pretty sweet), discharge if you want to be cheeky and snipe one of the 3 rain teams going around.


scarf chi-yu is such a good cleaner oh my god. people have realized with this sort of raw power you dont even need specs or np to clean games. it can be flexible with its fire stab too - flamethrower for consistant damage, overheat for massive burst, fire blast as something in between those two. i personally like flamethrower+overheat, but ive seen sets with just one, and even sets that run all 3 if they really need the semi-consistant high damage output of fire blast. dark pulse is a given, but the last slot can easily go to psychic for clod/pex, wisp to cripple something in a pinch or to troll lead palafins, or memento on more offensive teams. i fully expect specs and np to pick up once some broken fastmons get banned and things start to slow down, and i also fully expect chi-yu to get the hammer in the coming months.

also, specs and np are the definition of unwallable aside from ttar. again, meta is too offensive for it now, but once it starts to slow down chi-yu can utilize its power to its absolute fullest potential.

To make this post more relevant to discussion, anyone been using Sandy Shocks? It’s been a couple of my teams lately and it can put in some good work. Electric / Ground is really nice, SR and Spikes, Volt Switch and a fairly fine spread of stats including a cheeky 101 base speed. Really helps dismantle some of the cores I’ve seen that rely on Corviknight or Slowking to check Ground-types. Its overshadowed for sure but if some of the things on the Radar start falling off I think it could make a fine offensive pivot.

yes!

THE SHOCKER (Sandy Shocks) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric / Grass / Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Spikes / Tera Blast

i love this mon so much. im not sure if specs is the first thing that comes to people's minds when they see it, but the truth is, blissey/chansey aside, no tbolt switchins want to take an earth power and no earth power switchins want to take a tbolt. not to mention volt switch let it run rings around teams lacking electric immunities (or, if you removed their electric immunities). it can be prediction reliant, sure, but that is mitigated somewhat by the sheer amount of switches it forces. besides, you have spikes, so when in doubt and in against something that can't really hurt you like corv, just click spikes. this thing makes good progress and can find a great amount of opportunities against common defensive corv + water + donphan structures as well as clod, gholdengo, etc. resisting rocks also naturally helps a shit ton against hazard-centric teams.

as for tera blast, shock's movepool is honestly pretty barren, so you might as well run it if you dont need spikes. i like grass for palafins and grounds, but ice for sure gives the best neutral coverage. making yourself rocks weak is kinda lame, though. electric tera without terablast is absolutely nuts against teams lacking ground immunities.

shocks is also naturally a great antilead against glimmora, torkoal, peli, and pincurchin (s/o to the one guy that ran it). seeing torkoal get ohkoed by volt switch under protosynthesis that they gave is beautiful.


valiant rn really dislikes how fast and offensive the meta is and it really have issues finding opportunities to set up and take kills. however, this thing's set variety is still huge, and honestly it can kill whatever it feels like with that incredible movepool. right now, its usually a one-and-done setup mon like to roaring moon, but i can see all kinds of sets pop up, right now or in the future:

• swords dance. when i first saw this mon i was thinking (like many others, im sure) "oh shit, swords dance will be the move that breaks valiant". and that might still be true. between your vanilla sd 3 attacks booster sets to the ghost terablast+sneak set in lydia's paste 40 pages back to sd agility to techs like taunt or sub or encore, sd sets can beat whatever the hell it wants to. however, unless you manage to remove all of their fastmons, these sets are only the most effective the first time they come in, to dance up and clean with the booster speed boost. it's still obnoxious to deal with when it grabs an opportunity to set up, since 116 speed + booster is absurdedly hard to revenge kill if you don't pack scizor or banded palafin. tldr sd might still break valiant, but with all the sets cropping up for it, no guarentees.
• calm mind. has the cm sets ive seen on the ladder pop up on the forums yet? im sure they have and are somewhere in the 40+ pages i didnt read. calm mind sets pack less initial power in exchange for being harder to revenge kill, even after the one-time booster activation, as the spdef boosts means you cant just throw any special attack at valiant's shoddy spdef and kill it. honestly, i suspect the greatest reason cm sets exist at all is because moonblast is such a good move. like sd, ive seen a variety of cm valiants, from 3 special attacks to mixed close combat to again some utility move to setup on fatmons. im not sure exactly how good this is, but being able to break most of your conventional walls is really sweet.
• no setup, non-choiced. this is probably the kind of set im the most excited for when i first saw valiant. mixed 4 attacks is the kind of valiant that just tries to damage as much of the tier as possible. with knock off in the equation, i feel mixed 4 attacks valiant has serious potential to completely screw over slower teams. of course, you can also run shit like sub 3 attacks, taunt 3 attacks, shit like encore or twave or even hypnosis, whatever you want, each targeting a different set of mons as if they are just running a different coverage move. the meta is still a tad too fast and offensive for these kind of sets to truly shine, but i feel that it have serious potential. give us a shout if you run one of these with booster energy to redefine "slower" once per game.
• choice scarf. valiant's 116 speed and bottomless coverage options lets it revenge most offensive threats that it wants to. and it also have another nifty tool: trick, which lets you cripple a fatmon once per game. honestly, its really the first part that sold me. fighting/fairy with 116 speed lets it revenge most of the threatening sweepers and cleaners in the meta, like chien-pao, roaring moon, chi-yu, and dragapult. fighting/fairy also lets you easily shrug off sucker punch, which is pretty sweet. scarf sets lose a good amount of breaking power, but in return you have one of the best revenge killers in the tier. and it still got tools like knock off and trick to pressure bulkier mons too.
• choice band/specs. band is weird because spirit break is lame, but close combat's damage output goes straight through the roof. specs is in a similar boat, where the special fighting options are pretty sad, though i feel that close combat should be your fighting move of choice even on specs. i wouldnt be surprised if specs sets with moonblast as the only special attack starts popping up, with cc/knock/trick as the other moves, with the intention of tricking the specs away asap unless you really need it (this looks more plausable in aaa with tinted lens lol). the power is great, and banded/speced coverage can smite some mons that you normally wouldnt be able to pressure well, but god valiant really likes to switch its moves. trick alone can make them somewhat worthwhile, though.

whew, i really talked a lot about that one mon didnt i. but all of valiant's sets almost feel like different mons. moving on...


pult is so so so good rn and is criminally underused on the ladder (probably because of all the new toy syndrome). that speed tier is quite literally what makes pult this amazing. both specs and hex sets from last gen looks really nice here. specs prey on the heavily offensive meta with powerful stabs and uturn, letting it take advantage of mons like gholdengo and frankly any offensive mon who cant take a dm (which is pretty much all of them). being the only non-scarf non-breloom mon that can revenge bundle is also pretty sweet. wisphex on the other hand kills fatter teams better and threaten offensive mons out almost as easily, since too many things don't want to take a burn. wisping chien-pao trying to sucker punch you is a huge perk over specs sets. running boots also make this set more of an uturn bot. twave sets sends all the offensive mons running for the hills at the cost of being worse at pressure fatter teams and mons. infiltrator is again an unexpected godsend, letting pult kill or cripple mons that got passed a shed tail or behind screens.

dd ghost terablast is also a set, idk if its a ladder thing or not. om players know pult always appreciate buffs to its ghost stabs in one way or another.


i have noticed this annoying thing called "corviknight" that pisses off all your chien-paos, roaring moons, donphans, and valiants. this is the solution.


scarf is the best set imo to cripple annoy and revenge as much offensive mons as possible. meows also gets trick to cripple a fatmon of your choice (often corv since thats what it lures in), stab knock off as both an offensive and utility tool, and stab uturn for uturn purposes. beyond that, you get flower trick for power for cleaning and revenging bundle/palafin (though grass is too easily resisted imo to clean), play rough to be a stab fairy (coverage fairy is often lame, but stab fairy is great as always) and revenges dnite/unterad roaring moon/valiant, low kick for steels and chien-pao (which, surprisingly, gets hit at 100 bp), and thunder punch for...flyings, i guess. spikes is also a thing, though i have issues fitting it on. banded sets hit hard but cant revenge chien-pao and need bundle chipped for sucker to pick it off, and like chien-pao has to play sucker/knock mindgames with wisphex pult. on the other hand, it is protean-boosted hitting hard, so it might be worthwhile...after some fast stuff gets banned, i guess. spikes can also find its way onto boots sets, or even banded or scarfed if moveslots stop being so demanding for it.


bax wins games. and its really good at it. glaive rush is such a good move and imo dragon is the best tera for it just to abuse this 120 bp stab move probably boosted and coming off of your base 145 attack. the side effect often means nothing when the guy in front of you just dies and the guy that comes in next also dies. at +1/+1, every offensive mon falls. at +2/+2, most bulky mons also falls. bax's beefy bulk also finds it far more opportunities than you'd expect, and combined with its jet punch resist and its ability to tera away the bullet punch/mach punch weakness it also sweeps more than you'd expect. the best set imo is just dd/glaive/crash or spinner/eq, but you can easily use sub as a move and turn some fatmons into fodder. and really, at the end of the day, you'll just be killing shit with boosted glaive rushes. my only complaint about this mon is that it looks like a naked duraludon with a sword on its back.


obnoxious. cb breaks shit like no tomorrow and water tera jet punches clean games absurdedly easily once the water resists are weakened. bu taunt is a different kind of obnoxious that forces some really weird counterplay (why am i running pjab on my pex and clod). i would love to see this go.


imo tusk and treads are a large part of what makes this tier bearable with lando-t gone. i like tusks more simply because its a massive statball that does not give a shit about any physical attacks whatsoever (it only takes like 50 from boots chien-pao’s crash lol). its just an amazing blanket check to just about every physical attacker that is not fin/chien/valiant/bax/tera-flying roaring moon, which…is admittedly a massive chunk of the most viable physical attackers, but it does answer everyone else. treads on the other hand provides more utility with its steel typing, speed, and volt switch. its kinda like an upgraded utility excadrill from the lando-less days of pre-ct ss ou. more importantly, though, theyre about the only two removal options that scares away gholdengo, and i genuinely believe that if they dont exist gholdengo would enable hazard stack to such a point that the tier would be a nightmare to play in. they also are pretty nice antileads to glimmora, since rapid spin removes hazards after toxic debris activation. both mons also carry knock off, which serves the dual purpose of threatening balloon gholdengos and taking lefties off of incoming fatmons, such as the corviknights they both bait in so easily.

i should also mention offensive great tusk is an absolute beast. ground/fighting is incredibly hard to switch into when your ground immunity is usually corviknight. and that titanic physical bulk even uninvested gets it plenty of opportunities. ive also seen booster energy being surprisingly effective. those sets rips shit up once per game but usually consistantly inflict enormous damage. fighting stab helps a lot even defensively, if sometimes only to burn roost pps on corvi (do account for pressure if you want to try that, though).


i dont know why, but it just feels somewhat balanced to me. maybe its because the lack of knock off not allowing it to exert massive pressure on its checks, or the lack of axel that makes its ice-type damage output basically a more consistent version of weavile’s, or just that most mons have a way of hurting if not outright killing it if it tries to set up. emphasis on the “somewhat” though, sd sets still effortlessly rips through teams when positioned properly.


being the de facto defensive flying of the tier is great for corv’s usage but sucks for me who hates to stack steels. its also a defogger that does jack shit to gholdengo and a flying that have issues tanking fighters. that said its defensive profile and its status as one of the only defensive uturn and defog users gives it great usage. still pains me to run it tho sometimes.


am i crazy or do i see a bit of merit on the defensive ladder talonflames. i mean it defogs into gholdengo, packs uturn, and actually resists fighting, but…defensive talonflame. like what.


i think those of us like me who thought clod would be an unaware stallmon got over it pretty fast. clod is such a nice mon, its fat and its an amazing fairy resist and unlike pex its damaging options arent the definition of garbage. not to mention how nice it fits on hazard stacking teams setting whatever you need it to set, puts tusk on a timer with toxic, and makes treads a bit nervous about coming in on eqs. and of course water absorb is much better than unaware because palafin is stupid. please ban this shit lmao so i dont have to use poison jab on clod.


this is the most irritating thing a defog corv user can possibly see and unfortunately for me i am one of those defog corv users. and its shockingly offensively threatening with np and stabs, because make it rain is a stab 120 bp nuke and shadow ball is stab ghost-type. of course you can also run trickscarf on this and abuse its surprising unboosted strength with a scarf, or cripple something and grab a free plot as you trick the scarf away. and naturally good as gold is a godly ability making it an almost must-have on hazard stacks.


big fimp. one of the better non-corv ground resists since you can comfortably run bulk on this mon, since there isnt that much to outspeed at its speed tier and half the mons there gets chunked by fimp anyway. packing a slow powerful uturn is also pretty sweet. im running boots on mine and i think the boots go a long way for it not dying as quickly and checking treads for longer amounts of time (it can't hope to outdamage tusk even in a 1v1 when you resist its stabs but it can slow pivot out). it sometimes misses band's power but even without band 252 ada fimps does numbers.


grouping these two together: anyone else think spore is a pain in the ass? a lot of times your resources are spread pretty thin, where every one of your mons is valuable for something, so it isnt easy for any of them to take the sleep. of course gholdengo/amoonguss teams dont give a shit but otherwise? taking sleep on something in such an offensive meta often feels like killing a mon. i am honestly tempted to try brute bonnet to get sleep against gholdengo teams.


breloom gets grouped again, this time with scizor as priority technician mons. loom can revenge bundle, but scizor provides more utility. not bad mons imo with how important speed and priority is in this metagame.


the more i play against it the more obnoxious it seems. specs literally does not believe in walls that is not chansey/blissey, while hdb pivot sets still abuses the perfect stab coverage extremely well. 136 speed is imo bundle's greatest asset that lets it outspeed almost the entire unboosted tier and find way too many opportunities against grounds and waters that seem to be on most teams as well as every offensive mon it outspeeds. i originally thought the 136 speed lets it help keep the tier's crazy attackers in check, but really its using them to break apart teams. it genuinely (genuinely) to me feels like a better faster sandy shocks that just packs a rocks weakness. unlike shocks, bundle does not have immunities to its stabs on almost every team, letting it just click buttons and claim kills without much thought. its greatest weakness is, as people pointed out, hydro pump is a 80% accurate move. certainly would not be opposed to a ban here.

use shocks btw its good


fat waters is something that i can't possibly miss until they're gone. or nerfed to the ground. pex absolutely relied on scald and knock off to apply any sort of pressure, and slowbro sorely misses teleport as well as scald. what this means, however, is that palafin gets to be an even more moronic piece of shit than it would be in previous generations. not to mention chi-yu and chien-pao can literally use toxic-less pex as setup fodder. don't even use bro, its absolutely atrocious. at least king gets saved by getting chilly reception. ive never been a fini enthusiast, but it would be so good to have around here for palafin, chien-pao, and chi-yu.


it refuses to die

tera
i get how people want it banned, but it wins me games and saves me games, so im on the fence for now. offensive tera just feels obnoxious, though.

i really am not done writing essays huh, i guess this is what the new gen does to me. until next time.

 

[1LDK]

i have a legitimately question that i think should be asked: is there any reason as to why we are going this fast with removing pokemon from the tier when the simulator is not 100% up to in-game mechanics?

the simulator as it is right now still has inconsistencies in regards to several mechanics in-game (namely revival blessing) so i personally dont think action should be taken this fast without a proper simulator that reflects to a t the mechanics of gen 9.

this is not to say that iron bundle palafin and the likes arent broken currently by the way; they are insanely problematic, but idk it just feels weird to me to tackle things this fast from a banning perspective when the meta still isnt set in stone at this point due to lack of proper mechanics in the simulator

honestly yeah, theres obvios things like DoomBird and Palafuckingdolphin but i think we can be patient, besides, tera its still without a general consensus, everyone knows my opinion already, but one thing im starting to realize is the gohldengo tera spam for the sake of shameless trolling while keeping the hazards on, I knew hazzzard stack was gonna get more controversial so for the moment lets just keep playing and wait

 

[TyCarter]

Tried out baxcalibur now that flutter mane is gone and I think it's a promising DD Sweeper that has a lot going for it. It has a decent movepool with Glaive Rush being quite good as a delete button and doesn't have the drawback of outrage. The base speed is also workable for the tier and it is one of two notable icicle spear users which can be using in breaking up shed tail shenanigans (which btw is definitely controversial). Ice Shard let's it get priority on frailer threats like Roaring Moon.

Downside is that u most likely will need heavy duty boots for it to work as a dd cleaner but I love it so far since it has some good coverage moves too like Iron Head and EQ. Tera Dragon or Tera Ice both have merits with Tera Dragon making its ability Thermal Exchange complement it nicely as fire becomes a resistance and u can really punish stuff like Chi-Yu. The burn immunity is also huge too which is a trait many physical sweepers would love to have and it's def a sleeper pick imo. What are your guys' thoughts on it?

 

[ritch.]

So we can all agree pala needs to go right?

 

[alephgalactus]

i have a legitimately question that i think should be asked: is there any reason as to why we are going this fast with removing pokemon from the tier when the simulator is not 100% up to in-game mechanics?

the simulator as it is right now still has inconsistencies in regards to several mechanics in-game (namely revival blessing) so i personally dont think action should be taken this fast without a proper simulator that reflects to a t the mechanics of gen 9.

this is not to say that iron bundle palafin and the likes arent broken currently by the way; they are insanely problematic, but idk it just feels weird to me to tackle things this fast from a banning perspective when the meta still isnt set in stone at this point due to lack of proper mechanics in the simulator

Would you say the same about Koraidon and Miraidon? They were Ubers before the gen even started. These quickbans are just to determine the other things that should have been Ubers from the start—Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle and Palafin would have been gone day 1 had everyone known for a fact that they would be like this. The Council is attempting to help Gen 9 OU survive its infancy and ignoring the problems is equivalent to strangling it in the crib. And I really don’t think the broken things would somehow be less broken if you add Revival Blessing to the mix—if anything, that would make them even more of a problem, since then the game becomes “who kills whose Pawmot first so they can’t bring back Flutter Mane after it faints”.

Also, banning obviously broken stuff before the website is 1:1 with the games is standard practice—last gen, we didn’t figure out that Snipe Shot had a high crit rate or that Steely Spirit boosted the user’s moves too until long after Dracovish and Galarian Darmanitan were gone.

 

[Fablle]

yea pala needs to get banned and I'm sure it will the bulk up set up shit is ridiculous.

This is a set I've been using counter Palafin 1v1. Usually your force to keep it fully healthy to avoid losing to bulk up automatically
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder Wave

For Iron Bundle, we should give it more time to develop. I do think it's a really good mon but to ban so quickly without a fully meta develop is not it. I don't think it's an overcentralize mon in the meta just yet to ban it unlike set up palafin.

 

[alephgalactus]

For Iron Bundle, we should give it more time to develop. I do think it's a really good mon but to ban so quickly without a fully meta develop is not it. I don't think it's an overcentralize mon in the meta just yet to ban it unlike set up palafin.

“I should definitely stitch up this chest wound I have, but I don’t know if I should be so quick to get out of the way of the oncoming train. I mean, that’s not the main source of my problems at this very moment because it hasn’t hit me yet, so why bother trying to avoid it? I feel like I should wait until the situation develops a little further before I make any rash decisions.”

 

[Fablle]

“I should definitely stitch up this chest wound I have, but I don’t know if I should be so quick to get out of the way of the oncoming train. I mean, that’s not the main source of my problems at this very moment because it hasn’t hit me yet, so why bother trying to avoid it? I feel like I should wait until the situation develops a little further before I make any rash decisions.”

yes

 

[Bakugames]

Some people are saying to not ban mons until tera gets tested, but I don't agree. I think the priority should be to get rid of ridiculous stuff that tears the tier no matter if it has tera, so when we have the tera suspect, it won't get bogged down by some of the best abusers also being insane pokemon regardless.

Also I've tried out the glimmora + dondozo duo and its really good. Clodsire is a good setter, but getting poison/toxic out there makes dondozo so much better, and it'll only improve when iron bundle gets out I feel. Amazing palafin answer too.

Glimmora

Janitor (Glimmora) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Mortal Spin
- Power Gem

This is my Glimmora set, tends to guarantee 2 layers of tspikes vs physical attacks. Lmk if you guys have better performing ones though

 

[alephgalactus]

yes

I don’t know whether you’re agreeing with me or not, but I’m going to assume you are because I can’t imagine the type of person who looks at what I posted and says “yeah, I would just stand there”.

 

[ryangregory78]

Moving away from the endless Tera debate for a minute, what do people think of Iron Treads? I see a lot of hype over Great Tusk and rightfully so, but I feel people are overlooking its counterpart somewhat. I think Tusk is better in a vacuum but Treads can do stuff that Tusk can't like blocking Glimmora leads and beating Clodsire, Gholdengo, the occasional Hatterene and potentially Chien-Pao depending on the sets. Because of that, I find I'm using Treads a lot more than Tusk because it fits on teams easier. Treads obviously does have the massive disadvantage of being beaten by Tusk, but I'm curious as to other people's thoughts on it.

When Flutter was in the tier I found myself running Iron Treads on almost every team. Admittedly, I was trying (and mostly failing) to pull of BO and Balance teams, Max SpDef AV Treads was almost my go-to Spinner on account of Volt Switch and its ability to check Flutter and beat Gholdengo 1v1. I've been trying to get on the HO wave lately so I've drifted away from it but it's still undeniably a solid choice. Sure it's physically frailer and weaker than Great Tusk but its defensive profile's still nothing to scoff at.

 

[bogglywoods]

I don’t know whether you’re agreeing with me or not, but I’m going to assume you are because I can’t imagine the type of person who looks at what I posted and says “yeah, I would just stand there”.

Ah yes, competitive Pokemon, famously known for being a life or death situation with high stakes that can't be gone back on.

 

[1LDK]

yes

I don’t know whether you’re agreeing with me or not, but I’m going to assume you are because I can’t imagine the type of person who looks at what I posted and says “yeah, I would just stand there”.

not to be mean but he just made a meme where you ale were the soyack while he was the chad, therefore his argument is stronger, im sorry for your loss of the argument, youll get him next time

Also i havent tried or seen glimmora like at all, what are you guys using on it, i guess some core of mora + gold + insane abuser

 

[alephgalactus]

Ah yes, competitive Pokemon, famously known for being a life or death situation with high stakes that can't be gone back on.

We’re looking at the life and death of the tier, not a person. If it becomes uncompetitive, people leave and play other things. Right now, OU is bleeding from about eight different fatal wounds and we’d be remiss to not at least offer it a Band-Aid.

not to be mean but he just made a meme where you ale were the soyack while he was the chad, therefore his argument is stronger, im sorry for your loss of the argument, youll get him next time

I refuse to accept an L from someone who can’t spell “soyjak” correctly

 

[Bakugames]

We’re looking at the life and death of the tier, not a person. If it becomes uncompetitive, people leave and play other things. Right now, OU is bleeding from about eight different fatal wounds and we’d be remiss to not at least offer it a Band-Aid.

Brother this tier is not even a week old. Most people are aware the first month, up to three months are usually a jank mess. I want iron bundle banned too but this isnt 2 years in the gen with no semblance of balance where people give up on it or something

Also i havent tried or seen glimmora like at all, what are you guys using on it, i guess some core of mora + gold + insane abuser

I use glim + great tusk + dondozo, and been trying running av on tusk so that it can resist make it rain from gholdengo (which is a nuke LOL)

 

[oopsalldeoxys]

First thing I see when I log back on is the word soyjak what the hell happened

 

[bogglywoods]

We’re looking at the life and death of the tier, not a person. If it becomes uncompetitive, people leave and play other things. Right now, OU is bleeding from about eight different fatal wounds and we’d be remiss to not at least offer it a Band-Aid.

It's Pokemon. Like, let's be real for a second. If a rocky or bad start to an OU would kill the tier permanently, the community would've died before dynamax got banned last gen. I agree that Iron Bundle should be banned but we could maybe cut the dramatics lol

 

[alephgalactus]

First thing I see when I log back on is the word soyjak what the hell happened

Sorry, just got a little salty is all

 

[Bold School]

Beat it how? They cant switch in and if its on a balloon it makes it even harder for them. The problem is that it isnt even passive, youll have a sball coming back at you and what if the ghol teras into flying to dodge the EQ…its too much to play around.

What do you mean how? The whole thing with Gholdengo is it stops hazard clear by switching into Defog, Rapid Spin, or Mortal Spin. It's not firing of those special attacks first in this scenario. It's after the switch in you have to worry about it. Gholdengo can't safely switch into a pokemon with decently strong ground or fire moves in the first place. So any hazard clearer with one of those types of moves, or maybe even a strong Ghost or Dark move, can threaten Gholdengo when it switches in.

Maybe Gholdengo can switch into a ground type attack or two with a balloon, but that's only a temporary thing. It's not very hard to chip a hit on it. And if it becomes Flying type, great, it can't block Rapid Spin or even Mortal Spin anymore. Problem solved. I legit don't understand why people are acting like this is some phenomenon that can't be countered or adjusted to.

 

[oopsalldeoxys]

Quick change of subject here, but I've really been liking garganacl. It spreads residual damage so nicely and is bulky enough to take a bruising. I've also really been liking slapping assault vest in random shit, seems really nice on a ton of mons.