i gave it a fair few tries myself, slowking makes for a very respectable snow setter with chilly reception but the big problem is there’s no good aurora veil setter atm, which is the big reason you’d want hail over another weather. Abomasnow has snow warning and can set it, but his other attributes are terrible and he never really does anything else for the rest of the match. He’s also forced to pick between light clay for longer aurora veil or icy rock for longer hail. Avalugg can manage to come in on anything physical with his absurd defense stat, but he really wants HDB with all the hazards flying around and taking aurora veil can give him some annoying 4MSS. Not to mention he still folds like wet paper to any special attacks which can be a big problem. Froslass is ok at it, probably your best option, but similarly to abomasnow she just doesn’t have the stats to keep up in a generation where everything is a 570 bp pseudo legendary that can sweep your team after a single boost. Bundle was the best option because he never needs more then 3 move slots anyways and had great stats to back it up, but he got banned for unrelated reasons so snow is in a rough spot. Honestly your best option is to run a snow package of slowking + cetitan/baxcalibur, and run a normal core in the other 4 slots.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
]General thoughts + a lil bit of ranting
I really don't know how Finch manages to do this, shoutout to him, especially with all the trolls/conspiracy theorists
In terms of Terastalization, I personally don't have a fully formed opinion, but I am leaning towards supporting the Tera Clause argument.
Summing it up, Pro Tera says
I am also in favor of waiting for some time to get more broken aspects (LOOKIN AT U CHIEN PAO) out and then do a suspect test for terastalization. I personally do not believe it is ultra broken, and so, I think the community should vote and decide.
More importantly,
FUCK YOU GAMEFREAK YOU EVISCERATED MY FAVORITE PLAYSTYLES
RAIN
I really don't know how Finch manages to do this, shoutout to him, especially with all the trolls/conspiracy theorists
In terms of Terastalization, I personally don't have a fully formed opinion, but I am leaning towards supporting the Tera Clause argument.
Summing it up, Pro Tera says
- It makes the metagame more fun
- It lets the metagame have its own flavor(??)
- clearly not as broken as dmax
- as the tier settles, clear tera types will come along for each mon and so tera will become easier to counter
- pokemon can beat their own checks = unhealthy
- super stab is STUPID
- massive level of unpredictability
I am also in favor of waiting for some time to get more broken aspects (LOOKIN AT U CHIEN PAO) out and then do a suspect test for terastalization. I personally do not believe it is ultra broken, and so, I think the community should vote and decide.
More importantly,
FUCK YOU GAMEFREAK YOU EVISCERATED MY FAVORITE PLAYSTYLES
RAIN
- MY BOY BARRASKEWDA NOOOO MY BOY
- It's gotten bad to the point where i saw someone (here or r/stunfisk) talking about using beartic as a swift swim user
- like even IRON BUNDLE gets flip turn, but nooo, not barraskewda
- kilowattrel is like walmart zapdos, i hate it
- minor but PELIPPER DOESNT GET DEFOG
- On a serious note, it's still relatively viable (although worse than sun now) and it'll get a lot better with home and dlc (zapdos come back please)
- still viable, but gamefreak john lost to a blissey and said "oh hell naw"
- RECOVER IS 5 PP?? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO STALL
- tera fire tera poison and tera electric can avoid status, the main method of making progress on a lot of stall teams
- power creep bro, WHY CAN CHI-YU 2HKO BLISSEY
- tera as a whole basically doesn't help stall, toxapex going tera ground or smth doesn't do as much as when a sweeper does anything
Hello, first post here and i find myself wondering, if we ever get Hisuian Zoroark, how well could it fare in OU? Although he's virtually the same as Unovan Zoroark (albeit a bit faster and with better SpA but poor bulk) i belive his typing is great with only a Dark weakness. Could he be used as a Revenge Killer or Special Sweeper? Thanks in advance and have a great day.
It's been since ORAS/ S&M since i posted so i apologize if im not quite in the right place/right formatting.
I have two mons/sets I'd like to toss around and see what others feel about them.
Forretress (F) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Bug/Water
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes/Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Pin Missile/Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch
I haven't taken the time to do the math so its just a generic spread but i think its being slept on because of the above mentioned tera-fire and i dont think it should be. Hazard stacking seems to be the most straight forward way of cutting down on H/O teams just running through everything besides also just running H/O and the slow swap out is super under rated with how difficult switch ins are right now. I will concede that it does become set up fodder on almost any failed swap prediction though. Personally I've been going tera-bug and Pin Missile over water and or gyro ball but the ladder is probably the more consistent albeit expected.
Carkol (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Water/Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
- Body Press
- Fire Blast
- Rapid Spin
- Will-O-Wisp
Imo better than its evo, Eviolites added bulk is great and flash fire paired with either of the bug/steels or just steel types in general is great. And most of the time you can wisp and ruin the switch in. Fire blast over others because this boii weak af otherwise. The spread is just to keep both def/spdef equal for testing. Tera type is pretty irrelevant here honestly, you're only going to do it to get a sneaky ko or because youre behind but both have there place.
Ive had some success with both but i can definitely see where they fall short currently, if im being honest i can see both falling to uu and nu respectively.
I have two mons/sets I'd like to toss around and see what others feel about them.
Forretress (F) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Bug/Water
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes/Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Pin Missile/Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch
I haven't taken the time to do the math so its just a generic spread but i think its being slept on because of the above mentioned tera-fire and i dont think it should be. Hazard stacking seems to be the most straight forward way of cutting down on H/O teams just running through everything besides also just running H/O and the slow swap out is super under rated with how difficult switch ins are right now. I will concede that it does become set up fodder on almost any failed swap prediction though. Personally I've been going tera-bug and Pin Missile over water and or gyro ball but the ladder is probably the more consistent albeit expected.
Carkol (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Water/Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
- Body Press
- Fire Blast
- Rapid Spin
- Will-O-Wisp
Imo better than its evo, Eviolites added bulk is great and flash fire paired with either of the bug/steels or just steel types in general is great. And most of the time you can wisp and ruin the switch in. Fire blast over others because this boii weak af otherwise. The spread is just to keep both def/spdef equal for testing. Tera type is pretty irrelevant here honestly, you're only going to do it to get a sneaky ko or because youre behind but both have there place.
Ive had some success with both but i can definitely see where they fall short currently, if im being honest i can see both falling to uu and nu respectively.
Honestly i think GF messed up because everyone thought megas and z moves were going to be bonkers and mostly they were fine. The issue i see coming from Tera is keeping the old stabs + the additional. If you lost your old stab and only gained super stab from a type you were originally otherwise it was just regular stab then almost all of the issues would go away but keeping the original stabs + gaining either a new stab+ mono type or a mono type + super stab is what i personally see causing any potential future bans. Hopefully however thats not the case either because of rebalancing or because its just not busted when the problem mons are settled accordingly.
I find chi-yu broken. it has a 140bp stab with great spa stat and an insane ability. Its speed stat is also very good for a wallbreaker. It can also run np, taunt, ruination and more to get past would be checks/counters.
Like others i think that gholdengo has a centralizing effect on the meta. Its support for hazard stack ho makes items that arent hdb not vaible on a lot fo mons. I think it should be suspected. If it gets banned, i would be ok to retest it, if something like home improves ways of beating it.
Like others i think that gholdengo has a centralizing effect on the meta. Its support for hazard stack ho makes items that arent hdb not vaible on a lot fo mons. I think it should be suspected. If it gets banned, i would be ok to retest it, if something like home improves ways of beating it.
Giving Adaptability to all mons shows who can sweep the hardest, and while i'm not against the idea of disallowing same type Terastallization (as it's only for one pokemon), giving a free x2 STAB while retaining their ability can be problematic. This was one of the main reasons Palafin-H could hit very hard.
TBH this is a win on its own if your forcing an opponent to burn their tera to not be trap killed, they no longer resist the dragons or whatever wanted ferro gone so its doing the job but with extra steps
Can someone please provide me with the number of the Council's dealer, because I desperately need what they are smoking to allow Cyclizar to pass through two ban cycles. I mean sure, I was abusing the fuck outta Iron Bundle too, so he didn't bother me much before this, but you guys have to have seen how broken he was once IB was banned!
What is the reason for this? "It's underwhelming outside of shed tail"?!??! My Brother in Christ it was made to abuse Shed Tail!! No one is using this as a mediocre sweeper, they're using it to get a free set up turn on the most dangerous Mons this game has ever seen!
It's one of the fastest unboosted mons in the tier, which means you get a guaranteed Shed Tail on your first turn unless you're running Dragapult or Chien-Pao. I can throw a priority user out first to try and knock it below 50%, but it's a simple matter to hard switch and bring it in at a better time. Regenerator makes this thing fucking stupid I can't even whittle it down over time I have to OHKO the little bastard. Combine it with Dragonite's Multi scale and you're doubling the HP the sub has.
What in the nine hells am I missing here? I guess everyone's cool running Dragapult & Chien-Pao.
What is the reason for this? "It's underwhelming outside of shed tail"?!??! My Brother in Christ it was made to abuse Shed Tail!! No one is using this as a mediocre sweeper, they're using it to get a free set up turn on the most dangerous Mons this game has ever seen!
It's one of the fastest unboosted mons in the tier, which means you get a guaranteed Shed Tail on your first turn unless you're running Dragapult or Chien-Pao. I can throw a priority user out first to try and knock it below 50%, but it's a simple matter to hard switch and bring it in at a better time. Regenerator makes this thing fucking stupid I can't even whittle it down over time I have to OHKO the little bastard. Combine it with Dragonite's Multi scale and you're doubling the HP the sub has.
What in the nine hells am I missing here? I guess everyone's cool running Dragapult & Chien-Pao.
Laters Gators
So i really wanted to talk about maushold since it has swept so many games for me esp with this set
Maushold-Four @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Low Kick
- Tera Blast
- Tidy Up
This set basically can come in tidy up then DESTROY most mons with pop bomb,and it ca use low kick to break most steels,rocks that resist pop bomb and Tera fire helps it kill the mons that pop bomb+low kick doesn't,it helps with certain steels which are neutral to normal+fighting combo and this move also hits ghosts.
Maushold-Four @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Low Kick
- Tera Blast
- Tidy Up
This set basically can come in tidy up then DESTROY most mons with pop bomb,and it ca use low kick to break most steels,rocks that resist pop bomb and Tera fire helps it kill the mons that pop bomb+low kick doesn't,it helps with certain steels which are neutral to normal+fighting combo and this move also hits ghosts.
>He doesnt know about Rocky Helmet Dondozo
speaking of that, i´ve been playing with helmet dondozo because both go hand in hand, i know rest is not the best move ever but my matches do not last that long, and if i get hit in the special side im still able to tank at least one hit, meanwhile phisical attacks just bounce of me, just like that
Dondozo @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Liquidation
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Skarmory? whos that? Corviknight? isnt the bird tinkaton eats? rough skin garchomp? he needs some lotions, this is the ultimate punisher, with enough liquidation luck, you can basically force dragapult out, the rest just get squashed, i mean yeah leftis are nice but once you tried, you will never want it gone
It's interesting how predictable it gets though. This creature was built for one thing and one thing only: to pass subs. Once in a blue moon, it will knock you off or rapid spin. But its sole purpose is to shed its skin and send it to its teammates for free set ups (icky).
It does strike a unique balance between broken and outright useless. If it faces stall or balance, it can find ways to set up often and pass its subs to others. But it crumbles against hyper offense. Priority and scarf users love to ruin its day, making it dead weight for most of the game.
I do find its use of shed tail stupid though, especially compared to Orthworm. Orthworm's use of shed tail has real drawbacks. You're giving up 50% of your health on a guy with no recovery (outside of ground moves) so that one of your mons can get a free sub to set up. It's slow, so it can't just pass these without thinking. Meanwhile, Cyclizar bypasses all that and just asks you if you wanna play 5v6 while it spams shed tail.
tl;dr: I dunno if Cyclizar is broken, but its design sure is idiotic
Since people are suggesting (defensive) Talonflame as a Defogger who can force Gholdengo out, may I suggest a Defogger with the same typing that's a lot less passive - Oricorio(-Baile)!
Oricorio @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dancer
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Revelation Dance
With its somehow decent base speed stat of 93, Oricorio naturally outspeeds Gholdengo and Great Tusk and can nail them with these:
252 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 260-308 (82.5 - 97.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Oricorio Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 488-576 (112.4 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And that's before Quiver Dancing!
Oricorio-Baile, like Talonflame, takes advantage of most Great Tusk sets lacking Rock-type coverage and most Great Tusk and Iron Treads sets lacking Electric-type coverage not named Volt Switch by setting up in their faces even if it somehow doesn't force either of them out:
252+ Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Oricorio: 192-227 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Oricorio: 233-275 (80 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Oricorio: 216-255 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Thunder Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Oricorio: 314-370 (107.9 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (this actually needs Choice Band, ouch)
0- SpA Iron Treads Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 94-112 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 96.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 324-384 (100.9 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (ouch, this is unboosted)
+1 252 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 482-570 (125.5 - 148.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Forcing Teras out of sets like these is funny.
When checking Gholdengo, especially Scarf Gholdengo, the only attacks Oricorio-Baile fears are Thunderbolt and Power Gem (and Water Tera Blast, I guess) and bulky Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball because it's living the rest:
252 SpA Tera Ghost Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 238-280 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tera Ghost Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 260-308 (89.3 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 177-209 (60.8 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tera Steel Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 195-230 (67 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 265-313 (91 - 107.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 219-258 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 266-314 (91.4 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (better than I thought, actually)
0 SpA Gholdengo Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 392-464 (134.7 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (I have personally not been able to fit Power Gem onto my defensive Gholdengo sets, but...)
And that's if you're dummy enough to attack slower Gholdengo first. Quiver Dance in Gholdengo's face and the only Shadow Ball you need to fear is the Tera Ghost Choice Specs one:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 195-231 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ghost Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 260-308 (89.3 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ghost Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 238-282 (81.7 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Thunderbolt vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 294-348 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Admittedly, you can't OHKO Scarf Tera Ghost(/Fairy) Gholdengo back with a +1 special attack:
+1 252 SpA Oricorio Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ghost Gholdengo: 240-283 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tera Electric makes Oricorio-Baile turn into a non-Flying Oricorio-Pom-Pom instead. More importantly, it gains a resistance to Electric and neutralities to Water and Rock while not leaving it open to any more priority moves.
Let's compare this Oricorio-Baile to defensive Talonflame sets I've seen floating around for how well they tank Gholdengo's attacks and scare out Gholdengo:
252+ SpA Gholdengo Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 298-352 (83 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
52 SpA Talonflame Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 254-300 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Talonflame Overheat over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 352-418 (111.7 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
52 SpA Talonflame Overheat over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 380-450 (100.5 - 119%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
0 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 228-270 (72.3 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (20.9 - 24.8% recoil damage)
A bulkier Oricorio EV spread of 116 SpA / 140 SpD / 252 Spe Timid dodges the OHKO from Modest Gholdengo Thunderbolt and Modest Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball but fails to guaranteed OHKO max. HP Great Tusk with Hurricane. A similar bulkier Oricorio spread of 192 SpA / 64 SpD / 252 Spe Timid dodges the OHKO from Timid Gholdengo Thunderbolt and now guaranteed OHKOs max. HP Great Tusk with Hurricane but always fails to OHKO 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo with unboosted Revelation Dance after Stealth Rock and fails to guaranteed OHKO no-bulk Iron Treads with unboosted Revelation Dance.
Actually, rather like Quaquaval, Oricorio-Baile tends to end up being a sweeper first and a hazard remover second, but insurance always feels nice!
These are admittedly not high-ladder, and they all have Oricorio come with Orthworm support (Orthworm lures Fire and Fighting attacks/attackers quite well, including Corviknight and Great Tusk, and can Shed Tail), but here are some replays featuring Oricorio-Baile:
Oricorio @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dancer
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Revelation Dance
With its somehow decent base speed stat of 93, Oricorio naturally outspeeds Gholdengo and Great Tusk and can nail them with these:
252 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 260-308 (82.5 - 97.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Oricorio Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 488-576 (112.4 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And that's before Quiver Dancing!
Oricorio-Baile, like Talonflame, takes advantage of most Great Tusk sets lacking Rock-type coverage and most Great Tusk and Iron Treads sets lacking Electric-type coverage not named Volt Switch by setting up in their faces even if it somehow doesn't force either of them out:
252+ Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Oricorio: 192-227 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Oricorio: 233-275 (80 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Oricorio: 216-255 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Thunder Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Oricorio: 314-370 (107.9 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (this actually needs Choice Band, ouch)
0- SpA Iron Treads Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 94-112 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 96.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 324-384 (100.9 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (ouch, this is unboosted)
+1 252 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 482-570 (125.5 - 148.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Forcing Teras out of sets like these is funny.
When checking Gholdengo, especially Scarf Gholdengo, the only attacks Oricorio-Baile fears are Thunderbolt and Power Gem (and Water Tera Blast, I guess) and bulky Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball because it's living the rest:
252 SpA Tera Ghost Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 238-280 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tera Ghost Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 260-308 (89.3 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 177-209 (60.8 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tera Steel Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 195-230 (67 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 265-313 (91 - 107.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 219-258 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 266-314 (91.4 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (better than I thought, actually)
0 SpA Gholdengo Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio: 392-464 (134.7 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (I have personally not been able to fit Power Gem onto my defensive Gholdengo sets, but...)
And that's if you're dummy enough to attack slower Gholdengo first. Quiver Dance in Gholdengo's face and the only Shadow Ball you need to fear is the Tera Ghost Choice Specs one:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 195-231 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ghost Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 260-308 (89.3 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ghost Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 238-282 (81.7 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Thunderbolt vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 294-348 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Admittedly, you can't OHKO Scarf Tera Ghost(/Fairy) Gholdengo back with a +1 special attack:
+1 252 SpA Oricorio Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ghost Gholdengo: 240-283 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tera Electric makes Oricorio-Baile turn into a non-Flying Oricorio-Pom-Pom instead. More importantly, it gains a resistance to Electric and neutralities to Water and Rock while not leaving it open to any more priority moves.
Let's compare this Oricorio-Baile to defensive Talonflame sets I've seen floating around for how well they tank Gholdengo's attacks and scare out Gholdengo:
252+ SpA Gholdengo Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 298-352 (83 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
52 SpA Talonflame Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 254-300 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Talonflame Overheat over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 352-418 (111.7 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
52 SpA Talonflame Overheat over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 380-450 (100.5 - 119%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
0 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 228-270 (72.3 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (20.9 - 24.8% recoil damage)
A bulkier Oricorio EV spread of 116 SpA / 140 SpD / 252 Spe Timid dodges the OHKO from Modest Gholdengo Thunderbolt and Modest Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball but fails to guaranteed OHKO max. HP Great Tusk with Hurricane. A similar bulkier Oricorio spread of 192 SpA / 64 SpD / 252 Spe Timid dodges the OHKO from Timid Gholdengo Thunderbolt and now guaranteed OHKOs max. HP Great Tusk with Hurricane but always fails to OHKO 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo with unboosted Revelation Dance after Stealth Rock and fails to guaranteed OHKO no-bulk Iron Treads with unboosted Revelation Dance.
Actually, rather like Quaquaval, Oricorio-Baile tends to end up being a sweeper first and a hazard remover second, but insurance always feels nice!
These are admittedly not high-ladder, and they all have Oricorio come with Orthworm support (Orthworm lures Fire and Fighting attacks/attackers quite well, including Corviknight and Great Tusk, and can Shed Tail), but here are some replays featuring Oricorio-Baile:
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replacing defog with roost here makes it a way better sweeper, it's really only a second rate defogger anyway. Talonflame isn't only a good defogger because it's fire type, it's a good defogger because it's fire type and also extremely fast, has flame body, and gets access to nice utility moves like will-o and u-turn.Since people are suggesting (defensive) Talonflame as a Defogger who can force Gholdengo out, may I suggest a Defogger with the same typing that's a lot less passive - Oricorio(-Baile)!
Oricorio @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dancer
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Revelation Dance
Funnily enough, Oricorio gets access to U-turn (and Taunt), too (but not Will-o-Wisp).
While Oricorio has stiff competition from Volcarona as a Fire-type Quiver Dancer, Volcarona cannot Defog and it needs Hurricane (instead of Psychic or Giga Drain) to OHKO Great Tusk without a boost (said OHKO isn't even guaranteed if Great Tusk is max. HP). Combine that with my deep desire for role compression in offensive teams and I believe Oricorio-Baile has a niche in OU.
I actually didn't know oricorio gets turn, that's pretty fun.
Ok so im looking at the meta, and is there a particular reason we havent really seen dragmag? Like magnazone seems like a great answer to gholdengo? Maybe not because of chi-yu? Also if a steel type terrastalizes into a different type are they still trapped? Anyway with cyclizar, dragonite and dragapult it seems like a strong option imo
ghost types cannot be trapped bro
Major f never mind i guess
DragMag probably didn't see too much play because none of the best Dragons we have currently actually have trouble getting past Steels.
Magnezone can't trap Gholdengo because it is part Ghost.
If a Steel type Tera into a different type they are not trapped, but they lose Steel type so Mag still kinda fulfils it's purpose.
So for the people saying rain isn’t viable, I gotchu. The premo threat is right here: Hydration + Calm Mind Vaporeon. Think Rest Hydration Manaphy, but slower to boost, although easier to set up with due to its superior bulk.
The set:
Mermaidman (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Muddy Water / Chilling Water / Surf
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Rest
Rest + Hydration and w/ Rain means instant full recovery and status immunity as long as rain is up.
CM boosts your special attack and def, while compounding Stored Power’s strength.
Stored Power is essential to beat Unaware mons and stuff that is immune to water.
The choice between your Rain-boosted water STAB comes down to consistent power in Surf, extending physical bulk in Chilling Water (RIP Scald), or leveraging power for cheesing misses in Muddy Water, at the expense of your own accuracy. In any case, they all hit Dark types allowing you to not be walled by only using Stored Power.
Good Tera types include Grass, which makes you immune to Leech Seed and Spore (post rain), and resist Grass and Electric unexpectedly, while Dragon gets those same important resists while not worsening the sun mu. Also, Fairy and Steel could be used to also get some different resists.
Check him out in action.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1723084262
Winning this game was a matter of making sure Rotom couldn’t Trick scarf my Vaporeon. After that between Parting Shot and Screens support, setting up with Vap is really easy, even against Magnezone, with Grass Tera.
The set:
Mermaidman (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Muddy Water / Chilling Water / Surf
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Rest
Rest + Hydration and w/ Rain means instant full recovery and status immunity as long as rain is up.
CM boosts your special attack and def, while compounding Stored Power’s strength.
Stored Power is essential to beat Unaware mons and stuff that is immune to water.
The choice between your Rain-boosted water STAB comes down to consistent power in Surf, extending physical bulk in Chilling Water (RIP Scald), or leveraging power for cheesing misses in Muddy Water, at the expense of your own accuracy. In any case, they all hit Dark types allowing you to not be walled by only using Stored Power.
Good Tera types include Grass, which makes you immune to Leech Seed and Spore (post rain), and resist Grass and Electric unexpectedly, while Dragon gets those same important resists while not worsening the sun mu. Also, Fairy and Steel could be used to also get some different resists.
Check him out in action.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1723084262
Winning this game was a matter of making sure Rotom couldn’t Trick scarf my Vaporeon. After that between Parting Shot and Screens support, setting up with Vap is really easy, even against Magnezone, with Grass Tera.
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I havent read all the way through this thread so forgive me if someone has brought this up before. One difficulty I have had with Tera from a team building perspective is that it has been pushing me away from balance teams when I build them. This might be an issue with my approach, but I have been trying to build teams with the flexibility to have multiple Mons tera based on the matchup.
For aggressive offense teams, this is easy. I just look to see what the opposing team would have the hardest time dealing with and tera that. Sometimes get bodied by EKiller Dnite, other by Adaptability Weavile 2, and others maybe I need to go for a fire tera to lure the opposing steels. For defensive team, I look to tera the mon that would be most disruptive to the opposing team. Ghost Bliss, Steel Croc etc.
But for balance, I have a hard time picking out how to decide which teras work the best. Any advice on this?
For aggressive offense teams, this is easy. I just look to see what the opposing team would have the hardest time dealing with and tera that. Sometimes get bodied by EKiller Dnite, other by Adaptability Weavile 2, and others maybe I need to go for a fire tera to lure the opposing steels. For defensive team, I look to tera the mon that would be most disruptive to the opposing team. Ghost Bliss, Steel Croc etc.
But for balance, I have a hard time picking out how to decide which teras work the best. Any advice on this?
I've ran it a bunch but it has a couple problems.
1. the most common steel is immune to trapping (and also coincidentally beats corv really hard)
2. Magnezone is so slow that in games without corv/sciz it does nothing but be sack fodder even with the scarf since it is still slower than valiant/moon/cyclizar/meowscarada
3. Magneton (who I use, see my post above) also struggles to find a role against non corv builds and is weaker in general but at least is able to force out/revenge iron valiant and anything slower than chien pao/pult
4. Corv is really bad right now. Corv most often gets forced on teams because defog but it gets hard blocked by gholdy so the only corvs you see are u-turn variety so its not like you can switch into them unless you can punish whatever else they go to/stack enough hazards to force the defog
Still good for teams that run dragonite and/or scarf roaring moon. Pult beats steels anyways with all of its sets so it doesn't need mag support outside of it being a special attacking electric so it can hurt dondozo for physical ones
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