Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Shed Tail is just baton pass with extra steps so I was honestly surprised it was/is allowed since the move has been tainted by past transgressions (I know it will never happen but free dry baton pass please)

The only other one I totally agree with right now is Revival Blessing which is.....yeah no there is no way this won't be stupid. Pawmot is actually good and Rabasca easily fits on trick room builds. Can't wait to see some vile person wheel out lunar dance recycle cress and revival blessing mons to just infinitely revive cress to troll stall.

edit: all this being said I understand the desire to wait on everything else till we decide what to do about tera since that will have a dramatic impact on how the meta develops
 
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dragapult is a iffy answer. Without band/specs it doesnt have the power to do anything vs the random walls you run into. I guess I can try life orb but the issue is cyc or grimm lead you dont really win. You can just shadow ball either recklessly and all it takes is one turn for shit to spiral out of control basically (the speed boost bird behind a sub is basically gg)

idk it just seems a wee bit too strong but Im open to suggestions to combat it
Hmm, Taunt Chi Yu beats Grimmsnarl and Ting Lu can just whirlwind most of the threats I think? There may have a few other things to do but none of them is really reliable, Shed Tail is getting a lot of traction so imo it's soon going to be discussed out and suspected. It's just weird people voted non ban when it got popular pretty early on, and users seem to only give Finch (even in OU chat) shit as if he was the only guy in charge of the council... When if anything he is the one perpetually doing the communication. Not to say anyone is at fault, but maybe there isn't enough transparency on that front idk. However i must salute them for taking out the other problematic monns within the tier and they still did a good job so far with the new metagame.

The other problem is that regarding Shed Tail, to me it is clearly the move and i would definitely not be surprised if people started using Orthworm variations too for the same results, but that would rather be a subsequent effect to the Cyclizar ban so it would not be resolved if only Cyclizar gets banned (and there isn't evidence yet)

We don't talk about Lunala at home
Yea we shouldn't, owned by Species Clause like Calyrex-Ice
 
Shed Tail is just baton pass with extra steps so I was honestly surprised it was/is allowed since the move has been tainted by past transgressions (I know it will never happen but free dry baton pass please)
People keep saying this, and it's just not true. Baton pass wasn't banned because passing a substitute was overpowered, it was banned because of non-interactive full-team baton pass strategies which were absurdly matchup fishy. Shed tail obviously does not have this problem, if shed tail is problematic then it is problematic on its own terms and not because of a surface level similarity to a banned move.
 
My prediction several pages back that the meta would turn into Gholdengo + hazard spam came true sooner than I thought. It's the make-up of every single team and is totally egregious.

Also, I keep losing to Primeape - Rage Fist is a silly move.
 
Been trying out gimmicky stuff with Hatterene but I find that her Calm Mind set is ultimately her better one.
It's hard to make her work too with all these ghosts walking around and decking you in the face if you even think about staying in. Still, Magic Bounce is a great ace to have against all this hazard stacking. I just wish my team building skills were better to make my favorite pokemon work when she has a genuine niche in this limited roster.

This was the team I used before Palafin got banned and I wonder if I could rework it without Fin Fin. It's just Blunder's priority spam team paired with bulky Volcarona, Calm Mind Hatterene and SpDef TTtar. Maybe I should explore this Hatterene and Tyranitar combo?

teamteam.png


Also shoutouts to all the low ladder players that ragequit once they remember Magic Bounce is a thing or when their Scizor dies to Mystical Fire. Y'all give me life.
 
Dunno if this fits here but the mons with the proto ability are way to strong. I hope they get banned. Powercreep is fine and all but they make all old OU mons look like UU mons. I have basically no reason to use any other mons besides Protosynthesis or the pseudo-legends
 
Any chance Iron Jugulis stays in OU and not drop to UU / UUBL? Seems like a straight downgrade from Hydreigon. Been trying to find a good set tu run on it but it's so.... bad/flavorless lol. Anyone has been running a set with relative success?
 

1LDK

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bro i just realized we are not even 10 days in and we have 92 pages lmaoooo
also, on the rapid spin disscussion, i just saw that i forgot about a little tiny friend, :Tatsugiri: and just like you and arven on the adventure game, he is fucking angry

Tatsugiri @ Assault Vest
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Dragon Pulse
- Tera Blast/Icy Wind (if no tera)
- Hydro Pump

Behold, a speciallized counter to the cheese fries from Pizza Hut, you might belive this is dumb as fuck, but let me enligh you with calcs, this put :Forretress: to shame lmao and i though he was finally in ou

+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tatsugiri: 99-117 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 3.7% chance to 3HKO

+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tatsugiri: 133-157 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tatsugiri: 132-156 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



4 SpA Tatsugiri Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 150-177 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tatsugiri: 50-59 (14.7 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO


252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tatsugiri: 67-79 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO


252 SpA Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tatsugiri: 67-79 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO

Sadly, Specs Gholdenpoo still shits it but not too hard


252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tatsugiri: 81-96 (23.8 - 28.2%) -- 95.1% chance to 4HKO


252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tatsugiri: 109-130 (32 - 38.2%) -- 96.6% chance to 3HKO


252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tatsugiri: 109-129 (32 - 37.9%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO




4 SpA Tatsugiri Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 150-177 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

What do you guys think about this?
 
Dunno if this fits here but the mons with the proto ability are way to strong. I hope they get banned. Powercreep is fine and all but they make all old OU mons look like UU mons. I have basically no reason to use any other mons besides Protosynthesis or the pseudo-legends
Gen 8: The new pokemon are too strong, ban them all!
Gen 7: The new pokemon are too strong, ban them all!
...
Gen 2: The new pokemon are too strong, ban them all!

All hail the eternal god-king Tauros, I guess?


Satire aside, there is no defined power level that OU is intended to have. If old OU stables no longer cut it, that's not a problem, they'll find a home in the lower tiers.

OU's goal is a competitive metagame that bans the fewest things possible to achieve that goal. If that means the tier skews toward favoring one style, as long as it's not the only playable style, that's fine - it's looking really offensive this gen, but stall is still doing well and balance usually takes time to get going.
 
Gen 8: The new pokemon are too strong, ban them all!
Gen 7: The new pokemon are too strong, ban them all!
...
Gen 2: The new pokemon are too strong, ban them all!

All hail the eternal god-king Tauros, I guess?


Satire aside, there is no defined power level that OU is intended to have. If old OU stables no longer cut it, that's not a problem, they'll find a home in the lower tiers.

OU's goal is a competitive metagame that bans the fewest things possible to achieve that goal. If that means the tier skews toward favoring one style, as long as it's not the only playable style, that's fine - it's looking really offensive this gen, but stall is still doing well and balance usually takes time to get going.
You say this but people in this thread have literally argued the opposite position as you. It sounds like a lot of people are under the belief that basically anything should be banned that does something powerful outside of the norm, and council agrees with them.
 

Togkey

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Why is Chi-yu Counterplay rn limited to just praying? it just crit flinches your teams down if you have solid defenses vs it because the only pokemon that can take 2 hits are passive af and everything else just folds to overheat. It's sdef and speed tier are amazing and it can just wisp or teratype for its defense which isn't even that terrible either. Chien-Pao is obviously broken I don't think anything needs to be said about that but I hope that Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao are both considered on the next ban slate
 
You say this but people in this thread have literally argued the opposite position as you. It sounds like a lot of people are under the belief that basically anything should be banned that does something powerful outside of the norm, and council agrees with them.
That isn't true

They ban shit that's unhealthy and stunts the entire game. Proto isn't that, maybe there's another outliner but I'm not and probably never will be convinced that sandy shocks and slither wing are broken to the point their only ability and thus all of the paradoxes need banned.. saying the whole pool of new shit needs to go or is broken is blind sighted. Saying the new OU makes old OU look like UU is pointless.

Pokemon get outdated simple as that, gengar, scizor, and aegislash fell to UU, even volcarona was UUBL in gen 6 and came back, shit happens and we don't need to ban everything new to keep the old timeless, as long as everything new can coexist without breaking their own meta game (palafin).
 

1LDK

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Why is Chi-yu Counterplay rn limited to just praying? it just crit flinches your teams down if you have solid defenses vs it because the only pokemon that can take 2 hits are passive af and everything else just folds to overheat. It's sdef and speed tier are amazing and it can just wisp or teratype for its defense which isn't even that terrible either. Chien-Pao is obviously broken I don't think anything needs to be said about that but I hope that Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao are both considered on the next ban slate
In my opinion, Yu is not broken right now, sure its a fucking nuke, but its weak to hazzards, gets blown up by a tiny breeze and his movepool is sad, meaning he doesnt have a lot of options, Pao is more broken due to priority and Electric terrain being more common than physquic due to quark drive, meaning the chance of getting his sword dance priority cut short is low
 

Togkey

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In my opinion, Yu is not broken right now, sure its a fucking nuke, but its weak to hazzards, gets blown up by a tiny breeze and his movepool is sad, meaning he doesnt have a lot of options, Pao is more broken due to priority and Electric terrain being more common than physquic due to quark drive, meaning the chance of getting his sword dance priority cut short is low
I mean it can run boots or can just use strong hazard control with something like Hatterene + Great Tusk. It's movepool doesn't really matter when it 2HKO's the entire tier with just STAB moves, and it has lots of unique sets like Taunt/Sub with Nasty Plot, Nasty Plot Flame Charge, Scarf, Specs, and factoring random teras like Fire and Dark or Fairy or Grass, it feels quite impossible to play around in games, especially factoring that it can just flinch its "checks" down without any risk of trying to
 
That isn't true

They ban shit that's unhealthy and stunts the entire game. Proto isn't that, maybe there's another outliner but I'm not and probably never will be convinced that sandy shocks and slither wing are broken to the point their only ability and thus all of the paradoxes need banned.. saying the whole pool of new shit needs to go or is broken is blind sighted. Saying the new OU makes old OU look like UU is pointless.

Pokemon get outdated simple as that, gengar, scizor, and aegislash fell to UU, even volcarona was UUBL in gen 6 and came back, shit happens and we don't need to ban everything new to keep the old timeless, as long as everything new can coexist without breaking their own meta game (palafin).
to be fair to Aegislash, he was nerfed by like a full 40BST points and was still too strong for UU.
 
to be fair to Aegislash, he was nerfed by like a full 40BST points and was still too strong for UU.
Fair, gengar lost levitate too, scizor dropped from OU, and even latias who got stealth buffed in pursuit being removed from the game ended up dropping last gen.

I'm still waiting for the day we get enough new mons to make lando and heatran shit themselves and drop UUBL or something.

Point is stuff doesn't keep its pedestal forever.
 
Fair, gengar lost levitate too, scizor dropped from OU, and even latias who got stealth buffed in pursuit being removed from the game ended up dropping last gen.

I'm still waiting for the day we get enough new mons to make lando and heatran shit themselves and drop UUBL or something.

Point is stuff doesn't keep its pedestal forever.
Yeah I agree with your point, I'm just always out here to defend my son Aegislash from the haters.

Also aegislash in gen 6 was fun and I will die on this hill-
 
I've been trying some stuff with Future Sight Slowking,with FS Chilling Reception Surf Slack Off,and there's a nasty combo with Chi-Yu (drops ennemy spedef which affects future Sight) which is quite powerful I feel like (can also be paired with cyclizar)

Chi-Yu already looks really good but I feel like this Slowking set makes him quite unstoppable (even Chansey can get cooked on switch with rocks and some chip)
 
I would like to talk about a Pokemon I am yet to see mentioned in this thread (at least recently): Gholdengo.

Gholdengo is incredibly strong, with one of the best typings possible, great stab attacks, perfect coverage, nasty plot, recover, and trick. The combination of these factors make Gholdengo a verified offfensive threat, with some nice defensive utitlity, too.

The cherry on the top, though, is Gholdengo's ability: Good as Gold. Good as Gold makes a Pokemon immune to "status moves". Great, no burn, sleep etc.? No. It also makes it "immune" to Defog, and other targeted non-attacking moves. This means that, in combination with the Ghost typing, Gholdengo shuts down all viable forms of hazard removal.

There exists an archetype of hyper-offence teams, utilising hazard-stacking leads with powerful sweepers, along with Gholdengo, as it is a natural fit for such a team. It is my belief that Gholdengo is, in taken in totality, too strong. Not only that, I would say it is currently centralising the metagame, and will centralise the metagame in the future.

I think we should keep an eye on the impact that Gholdengo has on the metagame as it is given time to develop, though, as I obviously cannot predict the future. Just some thoughts.
 
I know that I shouldn't expect every commenter to read through the entire massive thread before they post, but it's pretty funny seeing someone go "hey did you guys know Gholdengo is really good? Hazard stack gholdengo is really strong!"
I'm discussing the metagame in a metagame discussion thread. Shocking, I know.
 

1LDK

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I'm discussing the metagame in a metagame discussion thread. Shocking, I know.
bro there is like a fucking netflix documental talking about them, theres already 3 sets (NP, Scarf and Specs)
and i have been talking about rapid spinner who could take a nice chance against him, go to the search thing and put gholdengo
also daily reminder to reject modernity, return to claydoll
 
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