Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Finchinator

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1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
HO feels like the top dog to me right now and it has thrived off of the mechanic, new toys, and so on. I would say bulky-offense has some unique tools though, so it can be second. Stall is clearly third to me as we have begun to see it on ladder a fair bit, but not everywhere. Balance is last for me, but honestly one day I am sure it will improve and be 1 or 2.

1. Hyper-O
2. Bulky-O
3. Stall
4. Balance
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
On HO, leads like Glimmora and Garchomp deserve a shout alongside Scarf Gholdengo.

On stall, the obvious necessitation of Unaware, but also Blissey.
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
Annihilape hype got a little out of control last week, but also Iron Valiant.
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
Kingambit is genuinely top 5-10 in the meta and does not get that respect. Also, Garganacl is so hard to kill that it deserves some love here.
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
Gholdengo for sure!
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
I love Dragonite and how it abuses Tera right now.
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
8 or 9.
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?
3 or 4, but it was initially a 1 or 2 and we are hoping to keep scaling this up as time elapses!!!
 

Marnie

Leap of Faith
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Had this drafted before TPP's questions so I guess this is my excuse to post them:psysly:
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
Garchomp!
:rocky-helmet::sv/garchomp::rocky-helmet:
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Ghost / Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
Losing out on Scale Shot sucks, since it is no longer capable of becoming the terrifying sweeper it once was, but gaining Spikes gave Garchomp a whole new different dimension to play with (the hazard-stacking Ferrothorn + Garchomp core we know to love since the good ol' days is now being taken over solo by the landshark!). With an abundance of old and new faces getting access to plenty of entry hazards, lack of good Defoggers, and the introduction of Gholdengo, hazard-stacking become a very strong archetype in the current metagame (whether it's on offenses or hard balances), and Garchomp is one of the leading forces of said strategy. If you've played a moderate amount of SV OU games in the past week or so, then this beautiful specimen of a Pokemon is certainly not a stranger at all. Thus, I present you, SV OU's TankChomp!

With plenty of entry hazard setters in the metagame, what makes TankChomp so good? The combination of Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet lets it pseudo-spinblock common spinners like Great Tusk, Iron Treads, and non-Dragon move Cyclizar, letting it keep up its own entry hazards by KOing them in the process. It also punishes Corviknight from using U-turn, the only reliable Defogger that beats Garchomp, chipping it down significantly to open up Garchomp's offensive teammates like Iron Valiant and Dragonite that enjoys Corviknight being low. Even uninvested, Garchomp can pressure Iron Treads, Glimmora, Gholdengo, and Clodsire with its STAB Earthquake, letting it—and its team—come out on top in the hazard game. In fact, Garchomp can improve this job further by making use of Terastalize; Tera Ghost is more reliable to stop Rapid Spin attempts entirely, while Tera Steel stops Glimmora from using Mortal Spin (subsequently, prevents Garchomp from being worn down easily from poison as well). Aside from removing all of its weaknesses, Tera Steel notably gives it a slightly better matchup against Hatterene, which has seen an uptick in usage to slow down the metagame's hazard-stacking attempts with its Magic Bounce. Do note that Terastalizing Garchomp is only done when absolutely necessary (i.e. you need the entry hazards to stay up at all cost or to emergency check threats like Chien-Pao or Dragapult that would otherwise sweep the team), since Terrastalizing its offensive teammates are often times significantly better. Finally, Dragon Tail rounds out the set, preventing it from being setup fodder from foes like Dragonite, Annihilape, and Bulk Up Corviknight, further spreads chip damage by forcing its Stealth Rock + Spikes onto the opposition, and pops Gholdengo's Air Balloon to threaten it easier. Outside of the hazard game, its natural bulk and typing lets Garchomp soft check threats like Chi-Yu, Non-Tera Ice Volcarona, Great Tusk, and Gholdengo. EV spread is pretty standard, with maximum Speed investment for the mirror as well as the aforementioned Chi-Yu and Volcarona. If more bulk is needed, the lowest Speed EVs to hit is possibly 136+, which outspeeds base ~85 Pokemon like Great Tusk, Gholdengo, and Glimmora.

Due to its positive matchup against most of the metagame's entry hazard setters and removers, ability to quickly spread significant chip damage, and easily becoming an valuable team support option all in one slot, I find Garchomp to be arguably one of the best returning Pokemon in current gen OU! But don't just take my word for it - go and try it out yourself:mehowth:
 
Ok. So I have good news and bad news on Jolteon after further testing.

The good news is I think it's actually a better fast electric type than Kilowattrel, at least in singles. Jolteon is faster and has better special defense, making it a bit bulkier on the special side and just generally better stats. Both get Volt Absorb and are fast Volt Switchers, so they can do similar things. The exceptions to this would be niche Tailwind teams and rain, where Kilowattrel gets access to Hurricane and Weather Ball. For some reason, Jolteon doesn't get weather ball anymore and GF seems intent to keep subtracting from its already shallow move pool. But I digress. Outside of the rain and niche situations, it looks like Jolteon is the better fast Volt Switcher.

I've also had some interesting uses of Quick Feet, though this is highly situational. I once beat a Dragapult because I switched in on a Will-O-Wisp and outsped it. Toxic Spikes can also trigger it. It's a shame Electroball isn't as good on Jolteon as it was Regieleki, or this could be more than just niche. But in general, the electric immunity is likely better.

The bad news is that Jolteon is still very mid. I've tried a number of different iterations and it can work. It's just underwhelming, which is not exactly what you want in this power creep sprint meta. Priority is also a problem because so many mons just hit really hard with it. Jolteon is too frail to take on the priority moves that override its speed tier.

Jolteon also appears to be a bad Tera candidate. Tera Electric just flat doesn't work that well. Its power and coverage are just not good enough to be worth stacking double STAB compared to better threats. I tried Tera Ice and this worked... sort of. But I find it's usually not worth the opportunity cost to Tera Jolteon over better threats.

Like I had a game where I took out lead Garchomp with Tera Ice. Great first turn, right? Not exactly, because then I was stuck with Tera Jolteon instead of something better. Meanwhile, my opponent still had their Tera and I had no Tera to counter their Tera anymore. They won the game. In general, it doesn't seem like a single KO is worth it for Tera in most games. And this is something that seems insane to say. But no, the meta is just that offensive right now.
 
I still believe that the following things need to go, in order of urgency:
  • Shed Tail or Cyclizar
  • Grimmsnarl
  • Dragapult or Terastal
  • Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu
  • Gholdengo, once all the others are gone
  • Revival Blessing, once coded
All of these (besides Revival Blessing, which doesn’t exist yet but will be a big problem when it does) heavily restrict teambuilding and enable extremely braindead strategies. Shed Tail in particular needs a quickban and did since day 1.
I don't believe Cyclizar will get banned, Shed Tail however... Like, it's cool that he can set up a susbstitute and leave as fast as my dad when he saw me being born but giving vitually Disguise for free to any pokemon? Absolutely stupid, major brain damage move. Still the problem i see with the move is the fact you need to run something very specific to counter it that being Mausehold with Tidy Up just to make your opponent say "fuck he's got the mouse!!!" so you can stand a chance against free sub just because a bike lizard is able to do so. Banning the move will be wiser because Cyclizar itself can find some value in other type of builds/teams. The rest i agree specially Gholdengo, fucker sets up hazards more quickier than a nuclear company throwing nuclear waste to the nearest river.
 

BlackKnight_Gawain

PUPL Champion
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]


1. Balance > HO > BO > Stall (preference wise, power wise I'd probably just flip the first three but with HO leading)
2. Great Tusk fits very well on all of these rn. Lando 2.0?
3. Right now I think every team needs a good priority user regardless of playstyle (except maybe stall?). Also definitely a good spinner over a defogger right now, considering defogs lack of options. Yet again I'm going to point to Tusk as an answer for this.
4. Cyclizar/Maushold. Both are good but predictable, the latter in particular so especially low ladder.
5. Gargancl. If it had another typing it'd be constant pick. Honestly, good ability and good signature move that works well against a lot of common meta picks. I just have incredible trouble trying to fit it on my teams :psysad: Iron Moth is another good one. Using a wacky AV set for a sun team and it's kinda neat role compression.

6. I miss Bundle already....but aside from that, loving Tusk and finding excuses to use Iron Valiant would be good. A good chunk of these Paradoxes are based on mons I quite love soooo
7. Breloom uprising! Y'all sleeping on Breloom I swear, but it does require more thought and support to use than I'd like.
8. I need to find a way to use Mirror Herb....Booster is also a good pick but not broken as people say it is.
9. Highly enjoying SV OU, favorite meta since Gen 5 weather wars. Will I peak as high as I did then though? So far I'll give it an 8, waiting for meta to settle and if we keep tera I'll be a very happy person.
10. Definitely a solid 8, tier is not in the crisis that people think it is. Sorry guys, power creep is real but not everything is busted.
 
Last edited:
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
1. I think there's technically a category of Offense between HO and BO, but I'll shove it in BO.
Enjoyment: Bulky Offense > Balance > Hyper Offense > Stall
Power: Bulky Offense > Hyper Offense > Stall > Balance
I think HO sees more use right now maybe, but BO is better if you are aware of the potential tera threats. I think Stall and Balance will climb up in terms of power over time as the meta is more figured out.
2. Bit hard to tell since there's a ton of variety right now, but shout-out to the Unaware bros Dondozo/Clodsire/Skeledirge keeping BO and Stall together. There's a lot of scary set-up threats right now, so Unaware is better than ever.
3. I rather like the core of TSpikes Iron Moth + dual hazard Chomp + Gholdengho.
4/5. Cannot say as people's opinions are all over the place rn.
7. Torkoal rather benefits from all the sun abusing Protosynthesis mons (and murder fish). Sun BO is my favorite rn.
8. Not really, not a huge fan of Booster Energy so far.
9. I'd say about 8-9, I rather enjoy the additional planning I have to do from Tera, it feels quite skillful. Also GameFreak has notably gotten better over time with making interesting unique abilities and moves (even if some are out of line, but that's why we have bans).
10. Right now 7-8, but it's hard to tell since the meta hasn't settled yet at all. Also see the above mention of Tera.

And keep up the good work as well. As mods/council you'll be targets sometimes, but you're appreciated. Have a nice day :]
 
Because Baton pass was too powerful even with a limited number of mons. Councils literally have gone through hoops trying to nerf baton pass chain.
Yeah I'm aware. The post I was replying to was saying full pass is the only reason Baton Pass got banned, and I know that's not true for the exact reason you said.
 
A buncha random thoughts on the game right now.

:gholdengo:
I think what a lot of people are learning, both new and old players, is that hazard stacking always fucking sucked! Yeah what goldilocks here is doing isn't inherently that much different from the pre defog days of spin blocking. But that style of play was nightmarish to deal with. Gen 3's most popular teams are based around mons immune to spikes and sandstorm. The current most popular gen 5 playstyle is hazard stack sandstorm with mons immune to passive damage. One of the best Pokemon in ubers for those generations was a mon whose entire shtick was to stack a bunch of spikes at the start of games. It sucked, and it always sucked, and the game got better for the widespread use of defog.

At least now there's an item that ignores hazards. I have legit run into teams with 5 of their mons rocking those fashionable boots. Seeing mold breaker Hawlucha become a legitimate mon is hilarious. I'm not sure if this is healthy long-term. It may be a return to what Pokemon used to be, but I'm not sure that's a good thing. I'm not even sure if banning Gholdengo will solve the problem when the defoggers and spinners are much more limited compared to the hazard stackers. It will be interesting to see how UU shapes out. Will defog Noivern single-handedly hold the tier together from being a hazard stack nightmare, or will it end up looking very similar to current OU?

BTW I do recommend building a team with mostly boots. It is very funny to watch your opponent sac mons to get up ultimately useless hazards.

:Chien-Pao: :Chi-Yu:

The Chinese breakers are nuts. We knew this from very early on, but the fact that they haven't completely torn the tier apart yet is crazy. Weavile was already borderline broken last gen, and here we have Mega Weavile. Yet it's....like, not completely broken? It ultimately plays exactly like Weavile so counterplay ends up feeling the same.

Chi-Yu meanwhile feels a lot like Tapu Lele. Lele wasn't weak to rocks, was immune to priority, had psyshock to hit special walls, and had team support options like future sight. However Chi-Yu is slightly faster, hits harder, has a nuke button in overheat, can use weather to boost its nuke to stupid levels, doesn't have its dual stab resisted by a single type, and has access to nasty plot. Imagine what Lele could do with nasty plot. Weirdly I never see the bonkers fire fish use nasty plot. The meta is too fast, slow teams are packed full of unaware mons, and it hits hard enough that it almost doesn't need it.

Both are nuts and I wouldn't be surprised to see them both go eventually, but for now I'm happy to see them stick around.

:great-tusk: :iron-moth: :iron-valiant: :roaring-moon: :slither-wing: :iron-treads: :iron-hands:

Anyone who suggests banning booster energy should be laughed out the room. Neither of the mons banned have been broken due to booster energy. Hands, Treads, Thorns, Jugalis, Scream Tail, Slither Wing, and Brute Bonnet clearly aren't breaking anything right now, booster energy or not. Which leaves us with Iron Moth, Roaring Moon, Iron Valiant, and Great Tusk.

Moth has a pretty great agility fiery dance set that uses booster energy, but it's a long way off being broken. Tusk is pretty threatening after booster attack plus rapid spin, but it has 4mss and isn't that hard to stop (plus it's one of the only mons holding the meta together right now). Iron Valiant loves the speed boost on end game sweeps, but can get forced out by a lot of stuff, wasting the booster. Roaring Moon might be broken right now, especially with tera flying acrobatics, but that's more a problem with tera.

In short there's at most 4 mons who really abuse booster energy. One of them isn't busted at all. One is a meta superstar who is a big glue piece and would cause more harm than good to remove. One is pretty damn strong with it but ban calls have completely died away after the first few days. And then there's one who might be busted, but is due to having the correct tools to abuse new and old mechanics together to create this monster.

Tl;dr booster energy breaks, at most, 2 mons, maybe only 1, and even then it's a string of other factors at play that makes it strong. You don't ban an item because it makes 1 mon too strong. Unless you want to ban Leftovers for breaking sub glare Zygarde.

:cyclizar: :orthworm:

Please stop with the "we banned baton pass so obviously we should ban shed tail". Baton Pass was banned primarily due to its ability to pass stats, not due to the power of sub pass. You're being disingenuous if that's your entire argument.

Saying it grants a free turn of setup is a bit weak of an argument too. Memento kinda does the same thing for example. At least with Memento you have to kill yourself to use it, but then the problem with shed tail is specific to Cyclizard and its ability to do it repeatedly over the course of a game.

:annihilape:

If I had a nickel for every time Gamefreak introduced a 300 base power physical ghost move in generation 9, I'd have 2 nickels etc.

This is a mon, or more specifically a move, I think might actually be broken. It could just be a tera thing, so we can wait. I'm amused by the idea of using Primeape for the same role though, as some people mentioned earlier in the thread.

:dragapult:

Oh right, giving this thing physical ghost STAB breaks it. Boosting the power of its shadow balls also breaks it. I am shocked by these totally unforeseeable developments. On the other hand, it is the main thing holding back Cyclizar from tearing the game apart, but that sounds like "broken checks broken" sooooo.

:ditto:

It's weird how little Ditto I've seen. For all the little jabs at tera I've had, the relative lack of Ditto at least tells us that we aren't anywhere close to the level of chaos Dynamax was.

Although apparently Ditto doesn't copy your stabs after you tera away from your original type, and there was the part where you could dmax Ditto to avoid its choice lock, and yeah OK maybe not the best comparison. But still, the relative lack of Ditto has been notable.
 
:cyclizar: :orthworm:

Please stop with the "we banned baton pass so obviously we should ban shed tail". Baton Pass was banned primarily due to its ability to pass stats, not due to the power of sub pass. You're being disingenuous if that's your entire argument.

Saying it grants a free turn of setup is a bit weak of an argument too. Memento kinda does the same thing for example. At least with Memento you have to kill yourself to use it, but then the problem with shed tail is specific to Cyclizard and its ability to do it repeatedly over the course of a game.
Are you saying that Shed tail isn't broken Cyclizar is? I agree, this is just a weird way to say it.
 
1. Offense is thriving and balance and stall are hurting, pretty clean cut.

2. On HO, Glimmora and Gholdengo are some of the most valuable that can apply pressure very easily. Bulky Offense loves all its new toys in Iron Treads, Great Tusk and Kingambit which have all shown to be very strong mons in the current OU climate. Bulky Offense also enjoys the inclusion of Corviknight which can still keep hazards off and take hits, even if Gholdengo is a thorn in its side. As for stall and balance, yeah probably Dondozo because even with the lack of reliable recovery Dondozo absolutely destroys a lot of physical mons like nothing else due to its absolutely monstrous physical bulk.

4.Ceruledge/Armarouge are both not very good mons, even if they are fun to use that you see a lot in the lower ladder. (Ceruledge is better, but even ceruledge isn't really that viable.)

5. Quaquaval, funni swave duck can absolutely run over teams in the late game as well as teams that do not have anything to deal with it, and its surge in usage shows that people are finally catching on to how absurd of a late game cleaner it is now that palafin-H is gone, since palafin did the same thing in the late game better and was far more oppressive for it. I also doubt Quaquaval's late game value will go away any time soon considering that urshifu rapid strike and spectrier, two very similar mons that could outclass it once home comes out, are very likely to get quickbanned on arrival since it seems like they have new toys to push them over the edge. (Rapid strike got swords dance, and spectrier got draining kiss.)

6. Iron Bundle, even if it was banned, the thing was so braindead to use with specs while it was OU but it was an absolute blast to use, even if it was painful to play against. Glad I will be able to continue using it in ubers since it is super viable there! Right now though I think it is the two paradox donphans, treads/tusk are so much fun!

9. 8-9 out of 10, I love this new more offensive meta, and while I do hope balance gets better, it is nice not to deal with stall as much for once. Sw/Sh meta was like a 7/10-6/10 for me around the time it ended because the meta was kinda getting stale, so it is nice to have a big change of pace.

10. Right now it is like 8/10, things I wanna see dealt with being a suspect for shed tail (In my mind it is uncompetitive for the same reasons as baton pass, and I would rather see shed tail dealt with over cyclizar/orthworm, since shed tail is the only thing making them broken.), as well as the aforementioned terastal which definitely needs some sort of suspect.
 
A buncha random thoughts on the game right now.

:gholdengo:
I think what a lot of people are learning, both new and old players, is that hazard stacking always fucking sucked! Yeah what goldilocks here is doing isn't inherently that much different from the pre defog days of spin blocking. But that style of play was nightmarish to deal with. Gen 3's most popular teams are based around mons immune to spikes and sandstorm. The current most popular gen 5 playstyle is hazard stack sandstorm with mons immune to passive damage. One of the best Pokemon in ubers for those generations was a mon whose entire shtick was to stack a bunch of spikes at the start of games. It sucked, and it always sucked, and the game got better for the widespread use of defog.

At least now there's an item that ignores hazards. I have legit run into teams with 5 of their mons rocking those fashionable boots. Seeing mold breaker Hawlucha become a legitimate mon is hilarious. I'm not sure if this is healthy long-term. It may be a return to what Pokemon used to be, but I'm not sure that's a good thing. I'm not even sure if banning Gholdengo will solve the problem when the defoggers and spinners are much more limited compared to the hazard stackers. It will be interesting to see how UU shapes out. Will defog Noivern single-handedly hold the tier together from being a hazard stack nightmare, or will it end up looking very similar to current OU?

BTW I do recommend building a team with mostly boots. It is very funny to watch your opponent sac mons to get up ultimately useless hazards.
this is the only note that I really disagree with, I think a hazard stacking meta has its appeal, and I definitly wouldn't say its "always sucked", and I don't think it nearly as bad as it was back then either, I do wonder if the meta will evolve to have leads and anti-leads to keep hazards from going up, gen 4 style. but as long as defog is still in the game, hazard control will be better than it was back then, even if only one good mon actually gets it.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
I feel like Cyclizar and Gholdengo are the 2 remaining ban-worthy mons in OU rn
We understand some people want bans, but we also feel that we have reached a point where time is on our side and we have taken out the most egregious offenders. If we notice anything too excessively problematical, we are happy to be proactive still. I promise we will remain diligent in our pursuit of balance
 
I feel like Cyclizar and Gholdengo are the 2 remaining ban-worthy mons in OU rn
I think those two are a little more debatable, I think Gholdengo has enough counterplay in the offensive department and its not the fastest thing in the world so that kinda holds Gholdengo back from being truly broken. Blocking status and its offensive typing is incredible, but that base 84 speed and not being super duper bulky really holds it back from really being overpowered.

And Cyclizar is really more of a shed tail issue, as I have been seeing orthworm run it to great effect as well, which to me says that shed tail is a broken and uncompetitive move, not necessarily that cyclizar or orthworm is broken. Personally I believe shed tail should be tested, not cyclizar as banning cyclizar does not necessarily solve the problem of shed tail being busted.
 
We understand some people want bans, but we also feel that we have reached a point where time is on our side and we have taken out the most egregious offenders. If we notice anything too excessively problematical, we are happy to be proactive still. I promise we will remain diligent in our pursuit of balance
Gholdengo and Cyclizar,while really really good,are not as broken as Palafin/Fluttermane/dog Imo,so even though I think Gholdengo and Cyclizar are really REALLY good and somewhat restrictive for the meta,that's ok,I can see time being taken for these decisions
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
I do not see any quickbans or radars coming this week. This is subject to change, but there are no current plans for any bans.
Adding onto this, I plan to begin working on resources such as the first formal Viability Rankings for SV OU and potentially other projects this week now that we have hit a point of remote stability.

It is important that we capitalize on interest peaking and grow our tier at this time. I look forward to working on these and sharing what we can moving forward. Stay tuned!
 
Adding onto this, I plan to begin working on resources such as the first formal Viability Rankings for SV OU and potentially other projects this week now that we have hit a point of remote stability.

It is important that we capitalize on interest peaking and grow our tier at this time. I look forward to working on these and sharing what we can moving forward. Stay tuned!
Finch have there been talks of potentially suspecting shed tail instead of Cyclizar? The move is honestly what feels broken not the pokemon itself, and we have another pokemon with the move in Orthworm that is bulky enough on the physical side to use it effectively.

Also just to let you know, on the viability list finch, you never added Quaquaval.
 
I think those two are a little more debatable, I think Gholdengo has enough counterplay in the offensive department and its not the fastest thing in the world so that kinda holds Gholdengo back from being truly broken. Blocking status and its offensive typing is incredible, but that base 84 speed and not being super duper bulky really holds it back from really being overpowered.

And Cyclizar is really more of a shed tail issue, as I have been seeing orthworm run it to great effect as well, which to me says that shed tail is a broken and uncompetitive move, not necessarily that cyclizar or orthworm is broken. Personally I believe shed tail should be tested, not cyclizar as banning cyclizar does not necessarily solve the problem of shed tail being busted.
I agree,even though Gholdengo opens up a team playstyle that I think is quite boring (Hazard stacking),and Cyclizar has Shed Tail + Regenerator which is NASTY,I agree these are less blatantly broken
 

Finchinator

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Finch have there been talks of potentially suspecting shed tail instead of Cyclizar? The move is honestly what feels broken not the pokemon itself, and we have another pokemon with the move in Orthworm that is bulky enough on the physical side to use it effectively.
Not yet, but I imagine there will be. It’s not viewed as the most pressing matter currently, but I can promise it won’t be forgotten
Also just to let you know, on the viability list finch, you never added Quaquaval.
Mainly because I’m pushing for an earlier VR release altogether and working on that, which will make the list no longer necessary altogether.
 
Ever since the bundle/palafin ban, not really. Gholdengo will probably get suspected at some point and Terra currently has a whole thread for discussing tiering action.
Can I ask where this can be found?

edit:

Yes please for the love of arceus just get tera out of here so I can restore my sanity. There is literally 0 reason to keep this generational gimmick, it just makes everything more complicated / worse and every matchup is a game of fish. In general just broken and makes the game less fun as a result.
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
I do not see any quickbans or radars coming this week. This is subject to change, but there are no current plans for any bans.
I’m kind of dismayed to hear this. Either Cyclizar or Shed Tail urgently need to go. As of the last Council vote, half of the Council agreed that it warrants a quickban, and it’s only gotten more oppressive since banning two Pokémon that could get it below 50% before it used Shed Tail (but don’t get me wrong, those bans were absolutely the right move). The meta is clearly suffering because of it.
 
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