Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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alephgalactus said:
I was just thinking that Magic Bounce is an excellent thing to have in the current climate. Mega Absol would be eating really well right now if it still existed. But since it doesn’t, let’s focus on the Magic Bouncers that do. I’d think that Chi-Yu would make a good teammate for Hatterene, since it scares a lot of the Ghost-types and Steel-types in the tier right now. Annihilape’s a problem for both, but it’s a problem for everything else too, so for now we just have to learn to live with it.
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Chi-Yu is a pretty smart idea. I've been using Sp.Def T-Tar as a special wall and it works decently well. But it obviously loses to Annihilape. I should try that out though.
 
The only chance Annihilape will have at getting unbanned will be when Hisuian Zoroark gets released. And even then, it might stay banned because every team will need to run Hisuian Zoroark.
 
alephgalactus said:
Yeah, if I were in any kind of (non-formal) battle on cartridge and there was a gentleman’s agreement on revealing your Tera types, I’d lie about every single one. I’m not a gentleman unless I’m on a date, and considering that I’m arguing about competitive Pokémon on the Smogon forums, you can tell exactly how often that happens.
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I guess in a situation like this, it would be more than a gentleman's agreement; if the tournament was in person and on cartridge, you could be penalized for lying about your tera type. Potentially an auto forfeit or, if in a best of 3 like vgc, an auto game loss.
 
LadyLynn said:
I mean, how is that different from reneging on something like Sleep Clause, or Evasion Clause, or... whatever else, really?

This isn't a case where you can hide the fact that you're cheating: the only way you can hide the fact that you lied about your Tera Types is by not terastalizing. After all, as soon as you use it, the opponent will know you lied.

The consequences of doing a Terastalize you lied about are the exact same as the consequences of Sporing multiple enemy mons or suddenly busting out Double Team or something else illegal.

I'm not saying that a "reveal Tera" clause is the correct choice, but I don't find this to be a compelling argument against it.
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Doesn't the code of PS prevent you from violating the Sleep Clause?
And what can my opponent do if I lied about a Tera Type?
 
Mikegengsta said:
Annihilape seems fine. Just needs to learn how to play around it.
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The biggest issue is that tera on Annihilape (like most mons) makes "playing around it" incredibly tricky and a 50/50 whether a play that'd work without tera is going to do anything other than make your situation worse.
 
alephgalactus said:
Yeah, if I were in any kind of (non-formal) battle on cartridge and there was a gentleman’s agreement on revealing your Tera types, I’d lie about every single one. I’m not a gentleman unless I’m on a date, and considering that I’m arguing about competitive Pokémon on the Smogon forums, you can tell exactly how often that happens.
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That and if i was vs. some random link battle there's no way to communicate tera types. Going a UU team vs. a OU team is w/e cause clauses are shared, but even if OU vs. OU there's no way to reveal tera types with the comms issue. You can mutually agree to not use tera like i rarely saw anyone use dyna on cartridge and never see sleep clause broken, but no one is emailing me or inviting me to a discord call to discuss tera types over link battle, and if they magically could, language barrier. You can tell when someone is playing the same format as you just by looking at the team, mentally you can just assume the game a win even if you lose should they break a clause ig lol.

I see no reason reveal type clause should be implemented, its not as easy to implement in practice on cart unless you only battle friends/people over discord.
 
RoyalDispenser said:
That and if i was vs. some random there's no way to communicate tera types. Going a UU team vs. a OU team is w/e cause clauses are shared, but even if OU vs. OU there's no way to reveal tera types with the comms issue. You can mutually agree to not use tera like i rarely saw anyone use dyna on cartridge and never see sleep clause broken, but no one is emailing me or inviting me to a discord call to discuss tera types over link battle, and if they magically could, language barrier.
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How do you even link battle someone without communication? If you put a code in a random chat and say "battle me" and someone randomly connects you are by that point forfeiting ANY rules whatsoever are you not? Your opponent could bring 6 arceus with legend plate with illegal EV's you don't really know whats gonna happen, and also its very easily to communicate pokemon tera types cross language lets not try to make that argument.

Someone dm's you asks for a battle, you ask "smogon rules" they say yes at teamviewer you reveal tera's to eachother, they say no to smogon rules then you can just leave lmao
 
Wenby said:
This new gen has been pretty crazy so far!
I've been getting back into competitive pokemon, as I usually do when a new generation is out/when there's a big roster update, and it's been pretty fun. I appreciate Game Freak going out of its way to add some interesting new mechanics and NOT putting them on "Scrimblo Bimblo, the loveable NU mascot". Even if Palafin is completely busted, I really love the creativity for its ability and I'm happy to at least have used it before its inevitable ban. Still wish they would have replaced Freeze with Frostbite, would have been way more competitive but what can you do.

I've been trying to make Hatterene work recently, which is hard to do in a tier where ghost types are so prevalent. Magic Bounce is a great niche when hazard stacking is super viable but I gotta find better ways to use her instead of just its old Calm Mind set. Any tips or ideas for sets or good teammates?
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if you’re into trick room, hatt is one of the best setters. you bounce all status moves while getting the room up and since you want to maximize all the tr turns you can, you can healing wish into an abuser.

outside of tr, i like nuzzle. maybe magic powder could be a heat choice with all the type switching? magic pow + tera dark could force a lot of switches
 
I feel like the issue with tera being communicated is that you still don't know what Pokemon is going to terastalize or if they're going to at all, which means it's still going to be a 50/50 whether or not their check or counters get completely removed from play out of nowhere or not. You could play perfectly with predicting switch-ins and what not but even if you know the tera type you're still going to be in a situation where you being the better player can be completely invalidated because they pressed the free "resist/nullify all of my counters" button either on a Pokemon you couldn't expect or to a type you couldn't expect, and it's especially bad on Annihilape and Roaring Moon. It's very much like Dynamax to me where players can just press a "No u" button in place of skillful play, even if Dynamax was an even bigger "No u" button.
 
akuto said:
How do you even link battle someone without communication? If you put a code in a random chat and say "battle me" and someone randomly connects you are by that point forfeiting ANY rules whatsoever are you not? Your opponent could bring 6 arceus with legend plate with illegal EV's you don't really know whats gonna happen, and also its very easily to communicate pokemon tera types cross language lets not try to make that argument.

Someone dm's you asks for a battle, you ask "smogon rules" they say yes at teamviewer you reveal tera's to eachother, they say no to smogon rules then you can just leave lmao
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Link battle isn't strictly friends and searching by link code.

And yeah, you never know what you're going to get when you do queue up and randomly find someone, but even if you're playing under the 'smogon rules' like sleep clause/banned mons there's no way to discuss tera types.

SWSH random queueing if you were both playing an OU team, you both typically never dynamaxed. I actually never see players dynamax unless they were some in-game team user so who cares at that point. Most of the time there was a mutual no dyna agreement in my games. SV I'd expect the same experience with no-tera clause, but tera reveal clause makes it impossible to do that.

I don't think making a clause that complicates things on cart is a good idea to make an unhealthy mechanic 'healthier', just ban it lol.
 
fly casanova said:
if you’re into trick room, hatt is one of the best setters. you bounce all status moves while getting the room up and since you want to maximize all the tr turns you can, you can healing wish into an abuser.

outside of tr, i like nuzzle. maybe magic powder could be a heat choice with all the type switching? magic pow + tera dark could force a lot of switches
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Oh my gah, I didn't even SEE she got both Magic Powder and Nuzzle??? That's real heat right there sjehbfrfdgjhb
Trick Room is also a good idea, I need to explore that. I've never really played with Trick Room rooms so it could be a good excuse to try them out.

Honestly, it's gonna sound stupid but I never used Hatterene before gen 9 and now she's my new favorite Pokemon. I dunno how or why I never tried her out before but I adore her design. Big witch hats are my jam.
 
I think it’s worth recognizing that we don’t need to solve whether a reveal tera types on team preview clause would solve all the issues with the mechanic. You really won’t know how it plays out until it is put into practice.

I think right now discussion should be focused on whether it is something worth trying. I imagine an attempt would be something like a suspect test where that change is implemented temporarily allowing players try it and vote on whether it stays.
 
Bugboy said:
I think it’s worth recognizing that we don’t need to solve whether a reveal tera types on team preview clause would solve all the issues with the mechanic. You really won’t know how it plays out until it is put into practice.

I think right now discussion should be focused on whether it is something worth trying. I imagine an attempt would be something like a suspect test where that change is implemented temporarily allowing players try it and vote on whether it stays.
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It's definitely worth trying before a choice is made about whether banning it or not, I'm just personallu skeptical of how much it'd actually fix.
 
The more I see/play games the more I'm fine with it, it's a silly mechanic on paper but people seem to adapt to it really quickly

Excited to how it'll develop in the future after the quickbans

Also rip palafin and iron bundle
 
ban
Bugboy said:
I think right now discussion should be focused on whether it is something worth trying. I imagine an attempt would be something like a suspect test where that change is implemented temporarily allowing players try it and vote on whether it stays.
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no, it's not something worth trying. it doesn't even address the issue it purports to solve, considering pre-battle factors, and the unpredictability of which mon/when a mon will use it.

AND tera, on its own is overwhelmingly strong, regardless of any bandaids you apply in a vain effort to normalise it. it is both broken & uncompetitive, and a suspect of the kind you propose would be a waste of time when we could just suspect the mechanic itself (or ideally just quick ban it).
 
Bugboy said:
I think it’s worth recognizing that we don’t need to solve whether a reveal tera types on team preview clause would solve all the issues with the mechanic. You really won’t know how it plays out until it is put into practice.

I think right now discussion should be focused on whether it is something worth trying. I imagine an attempt would be something like a suspect test where that change is implemented temporarily allowing players try it and vote on whether it stays.
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This is a really good focus for the discussion.

For me, playing with tera is fun enough that to me it is worth trying. Of course, players' biggest concern will be about game balance, and there have been good arguments against it. I personally think it is fine, but I'm not the type of player Smogon is trying to satisfy with these bans and balances.

In short, tera is fun enough that I want to see an effort to keep it, but understand if it goes.
 
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