Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Player J said:
My research on Glaceon was very extensive.
I uncovered how Glaceon interacts on regular team and how Glaceon would interact on snow team.
I didn’t even get a chance to share my findings about Glaceon on a snow team.

To bad, Players will simply have to do their own research.
They will have to uncover the secret knowledge for themselves.
Click to expand...

Extensive research? Show us the results then thru replays rather than just talking about it. Nobody's stopping you from sharing your 'findings' but nobody's gonna believe you either unless you have the replays to back it up

And also, seems to me like you just written down some notes and never bothered to test them. I'm not even gonna comment on the fact with how you used Amoonguss and Amoonguss alone to make your case when there are about thirty other mons in the tier, half of which probably won't give a damn about Glaceon or can simply use terastal to get around their ice weakness
 
Player J said:
I’m sorry, but it seems the forum thread has turned hostile.
This will be the last thing I write to you about Glaceon.

All I can say to you is my investigation uncovered Glaceon to be a Bulky Ice - Wall Breaker.
I tested my theory by simulating a Pokemon Battle situation.

The Pokémon I used in the simulation was Amoongus.
Amoongus is a popular Pokémon in OU.
Amoongus is a Wall Pokémon which could see play on Stall teams.
Amoongus is a Grass/Poison Type.

Glaceon Prey’s on the following:
- Wall Pokémon
- Dragon, Flying, Grass, or Ground Types.

The Pokémon Amoongus matches the Prey criteria.
The Pokémon Amoongus is Wall & a Grass Type.

The Simulation began!
- Amoongus on the Pokemon Battle Field
- Glaceon hard switches into Amoongus

What does Amoongus do to Glaceon?
All Damage Calculators indicate it would take 5 to 6 hits for Amoongus to kill Glaceon.

0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Glaceon: 81-96 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Glaceon: 67-81 (20 - 24.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

A lot of people said Ice Type is bad defensive type because it only resist Ice.
The truth is the Ice Typing is irrelevant because the Pokémon you switch Glaceon into do no damage.

The only thing Amoongus could do against Glaceon is cripple it with Status Condition.
- Toxic
- Paralyze
- Sleep

Status Condition’s will not work on Glaceon because she could run the Move Rest.
The Move Rest would cancel any status condition a Pokémon like Amoongus could do.

In addition to all the above, Glaceon could threat Amoongus with very devastating attacks.

0 SpA Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Amoonguss: 222-264 (51.3 - 61.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Glaceon Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Amoonguss: 174-206 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

A lot of people said Glaceon Speed at only 65 made her to slow to handle other Pokémon.
People didn’t think about the Speed “Wall” Pokémon have.

Amoongus has 30 speed
Glaceon has enough speed to run circles around Amoongus.

Furthermore, Glaceon has the move Calm Mind.
Glaceon could use Amoongus as set up fodder to not only kill Amoongus, but other Pokémon as well.
Glaceon could be very dangerous if allowed to boost up.

Ladies & Gentlemen
- I did an investigation on Glaceon stats
- I did an evaluation on Glaceon move pool
- I did a summary on what Glaceon role as Pokémon was as well as what her nature Prey might be.
- I did a Battle Simulation showing people how Glaceon would behave vs. a Pokémon which is her Prey.
- I did Test in the Simulation showing Damage Calculations to further demonstrate how Glaceon abilities to counter these Pokémon are absolute.

If your still not convinced Glaceon is Good Pokémon, Than you never will be!
Nothing anyone tells you or shows you will ever change your mind because you have created a prejudice against Glaceon.

It’s sad that a person who doesn’t even like Glaceon had to be the one to defend Glaceon.
The prejudices and hostility toward Glaceon has made the subject uncomfortable to talk about.

It’s a shame because now people will never know why Glaceon is the “Key” Pokémon for Snow Teams.
A missed discussion opportunity.

My research on Glaceon was very extensive.
I uncovered how Glaceon interacts on regular team and how Glaceon would interact on snow team.
I didn’t even get a chance to share my findings about Glaceon on a snow team.

To bad, Players will simply have to do their own research.
They will have to uncover the secret knowledge for themselves.
Click to expand...
Showing Glaceon beating Amoongus doesn’t help anything. Of course Amoongus has a poor matchup against Glaceon, it’s a slow Grass type.
When showing the potential of a Pokémon, you have to explain its strengths that it has over Pokémon occupying a similar role, and even just justifying why you would put it on a team. Why would I use Glaceon over, say, Baxcalibur? Baxcalibur has an extra STAB and better stats, including better speed which it can boost further by using Dragon Dance. Baxcalibur can be very threatening if it gets off a DD, meanwhile Glaceon gets outsped and killed by one of its 4 weaknesses, 3 of which are to very common attacking types. Why would I use Glaceon over Chien-Pao, which is immediately threatening with its 120 Attack+Sword of Ruin combined with a great 135 speed. Also, both of these Pokémon have great coverage. Glaceon‘s best coverage is Shadow Ball, which completely does not address Ice’s resists.
Going more broad than the Ice type comparisons, why use it as a Calm Mind sweeper? It’s coverage makes it very hard to use outside of as cleanup, and stuff like Iron Valiant can fulfill the role of a CM cleaner better(you can also spam Tera Ghost DD Pult up and down the ladder, wink wink).
Go on the ladder and give me some actual proof that Glaceon can do something, because currently I see no reason to use it over other options.
 
Player J said:
Amoongus has 30 speed
Glaceon has enough speed to run circles around Amoongus.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm/we're making fun of you. I'm legit not trying to be hostile. But the way you talk about some of these things makes it sound really out there. I also personally find much of it hilarious. There were a few times I spent so long laughing that it delayed my posting.

The ability to "run circles around" pokemon with sub 100 speed has never been a coveted thing, let alone one with 30 speed. Even Skeledirge, which is slow enough I tried it in a Trick Room team, actually has higher base speed than Glaceon. It's slow. Yes, Glaceon is a lot faster than Amoongus. Twice nothing is still nothing. Who actually covets that or uses such phrases to describe things like that?

In general, your takes seem pretty sloppy. You obviously haven't ladder tested this and you began trying to convince everyone with an incomplete set, let alone a flawed one. Many of the things you say just aren't true. This is why people are having a hard time taking you seriously. You aren't actually presenting a solid case. I recommend taking some time to learn the competitive scene more before commenting stuff like this. There is a big difference between theory and hard testing.
 
F77A58C3-0ECD-4C6C-A518-6E98CD320910.jpeg

“STOP POSTING ABOUT GLACEON!! IM TIRED OF SEEING IT!!
 
Player J said:
I’m sorry, but it seems the forum thread has turned hostile.
This will be the last thing I write to you about Glaceon.

All I can say to you is my investigation uncovered Glaceon to be a Bulky Ice - Wall Breaker.
I tested my theory by simulating a Pokemon Battle situation.

The Pokémon I used in the simulation was Amoongus.
Amoongus is a popular Pokémon in OU.
Amoongus is a Wall Pokémon which could see play on Stall teams.
Amoongus is a Grass/Poison Type.

Glaceon Prey’s on the following:
- Wall Pokémon
- Dragon, Flying, Grass, or Ground Types.

The Pokémon Amoongus matches the Prey criteria.
The Pokémon Amoongus is Wall & a Grass Type.

The Simulation began!
- Amoongus on the Pokemon Battle Field
- Glaceon hard switches into Amoongus

What does Amoongus do to Glaceon?
All Damage Calculators indicate it would take 5 to 6 hits for Amoongus to kill Glaceon.

0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Glaceon: 81-96 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Glaceon: 67-81 (20 - 24.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

A lot of people said Ice Type is bad defensive type because it only resist Ice.
The truth is the Ice Typing is irrelevant because the Pokémon you switch Glaceon into do no damage.

The only thing Amoongus could do against Glaceon is cripple it with Status Condition.
- Toxic
- Paralyze
- Sleep

Status Condition’s will not work on Glaceon because she could run the Move Rest.
The Move Rest would cancel any status condition a Pokémon like Amoongus could do.

In addition to all the above, Glaceon could threat Amoongus with very devastating attacks.

0 SpA Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Amoonguss: 222-264 (51.3 - 61.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Glaceon Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Amoonguss: 174-206 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

A lot of people said Glaceon Speed at only 65 made her to slow to handle other Pokémon.
People didn’t think about the Speed “Wall” Pokémon have.

Amoongus has 30 speed
Glaceon has enough speed to run circles around Amoongus.

Furthermore, Glaceon has the move Calm Mind.
Glaceon could use Amoongus as set up fodder to not only kill Amoongus, but other Pokémon as well.
Glaceon could be very dangerous if allowed to boost up.

Ladies & Gentlemen
- I did an investigation on Glaceon stats
- I did an evaluation on Glaceon move pool
- I did a summary on what Glaceon role as Pokémon was as well as what her nature Prey might be.
- I did a Battle Simulation showing people how Glaceon would behave vs. a Pokémon which is her Prey.
- I did Test in the Simulation showing Damage Calculations to further demonstrate how Glaceon abilities to counter these Pokémon are absolute.

If your still not convinced Glaceon is Good Pokémon, Than you never will be!
Nothing anyone tells you or shows you will ever change your mind because you have created a prejudice against Glaceon.

It’s sad that a person who doesn’t even like Glaceon had to be the one to defend Glaceon.
The prejudices and hostility toward Glaceon has made the subject uncomfortable to talk about.

It’s a shame because now people will never know why Glaceon is the “Key” Pokémon for Snow Teams.
A missed discussion opportunity.

My research on Glaceon was very extensive.
I uncovered how Glaceon interacts on regular team and how Glaceon would interact on snow team.
I didn’t even get a chance to share my findings about Glaceon on a snow team.

To bad, Players will simply have to do their own research.
They will have to uncover the secret knowledge for themselves.
Click to expand...

Hey guys, did you know that in terms of male human and female Pokémon breeding, Vaporeon is the most compatible Pokémon for humans?

But while we're on the topic of eveelutions, does anyone think that lefeon could have a niche as a chlorophyll sweeper? I tried to make it work on sun in gen 8, and it wasn't that bad, with SD, leaf blade and synthesis it was a solid physical sweeper. With all the new protosynthesis mons, sun is a much more viable playstyle than last gen, and with venusaur gone, I was thinking lefeon could fit on to some of these sun teams. It does get screwed by its lack of coverage though (and by chi-yu simply existing)
 
SwaggySammy44 said:
But while we're on the topic of eveelutions, does anyone think that lefeon could have a niche as a chlorophyll sweeper?
Click to expand...
I’m gonna make a lot of people upset by saying this, but it’s the truth: no Eeveelutions besides Sylveon are, or ever will be, worth using in OU. Jolteon has no coverage, Flareon’s too slow and reliant on being poisoned, Vaporeon is just outclassed by other bulky Waters, Espeon is too frail, Umbreon is too passive, Glaceon is Glaceon, and Leafeon doesn’t have the coverage to sweep or the bulk to set up. Any discussion on this topic will lead to the same place it’s led in every generation since the games moved to 3D: absolutely nowhere. Unless they all get massive movepool/Ability buffs or Megas come back and they all get one, the non-Fairy Eeveelutions are damned to the lower tiers for eternity. End of story. We’re moving on. I’m being harsh here because this same Eeveelution discussion happens every single time the meta changes and the result is always the same.
 
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[Black Knight]Gawain said:
fellas, is it gay to use eeveelutions?
(also, I hope you never find out the Machamp line can be female, it might kill you)
Click to expand...

just about choked laughing lmao

Player J said:
Ladies & Gentlemen
- I did an investigation on Glaceon stats
- I did an evaluation on Glaceon move pool
- I did a summary on what Glaceon role as Pokémon was as well as what her nature Prey might be.
- I did a Battle Simulation showing people how Glaceon would behave vs. a Pokémon which is her Prey.
- I did Test in the Simulation showing Damage Calculations to further demonstrate how Glaceon abilities to counter these Pokémon are absolute.

My research on Glaceon was very extensive.

To bad, Players will simply have to do their own research.
They will have to uncover the secret knowledge for themselves.
Click to expand...
someone please there has to be some way we can turn this into a lavos-esque copypasta


edit: alr with finals obliterating me I finally check back in this thread, hoo-boy, the glaceon stuff is good for some laughs. Thanks for keepin the joke going as long as you all have fellas
 
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Remember when I told you guys to stop replying to G***eon guy? I'd recommend heeding my advice now lol

What have your consistent Iron Valiant checks been? It scares the hell out of me with how unpredictable it is.
 
alephgalactus said:
I’m gonna make a lot of people upset by saying this, but it’s the truth: no Eeveelutions besides Sylveon are, or ever will be, worth using in OU. Jolteon has no coverage, Flareon’s too slow and reliant on being poisoned, Vaporeon is just outclassed by other bulky Waters, Espeon is too frail, Umbreon is too passive, Glaceon is Glaceon, and Leafeon doesn’t have the coverage to sweep or the bulk to set up. Any discussion on this topic will lead to the same place it’s led in every generation since the games moved to 3D: absolutely nowhere. Unless they all get massive movepool/Ability buffs or Megas come back and they all get one, the non-Fairy Eeveelutions are damned to the lower tiers for eternity. End of story. We’re moving on.
Click to expand...

I've tested some of the Eeveelutions and seen some on the ladder. It really doesn't help that GF keeps taking away from the movepools. Most aren't OU level, but I wouldn't go quite this absolute with it.

Umbreon is usually pretty good and Foul Play is nice. Jolteon was mid and probably should be UU, but I've tried it in OU and it's better than Kilowattrell (which should also be UU) as a fast Volt Switch mon. Espeon might have some niches with Magic Bounce, but it is outclassed by Hatterene. Those are the only others I could see having some niche, and Umbreon is probably the best bet of the 3.

The rest, not so much. As for Leafeon, it isn't good at all. The Eeveelutions lost Weather Ball, which was useful last gen for things like Ferrothorn. You could Tera Fire, but then you waste your Tera. This doesn't even get to the fact it doesn't have Solar Blade, so it has to go back to Leaf Blade.
 
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Vengeance417 said:
What have your consistent Iron Valiant checks been? It scares the hell out of me with how unpredictable it is.
Click to expand...
Sylveon, i have mostly seen Special variants, and I always can take 2 hits and KO back with Hyper Voice, and now that i have said it, its gonna be really funny when people are gonna start running Choice band Poison Jab, speaking of

Iron Valiant @ Expert Belt
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spirit Break
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab

I theory crafted this set a while ago, i can see Expert belt becoming a great item for valiant since its naturally quite strong and fast, this would requiere P I N C U R C H I N, and you guys are scared of running Curchin, its not that bad guys
 
Bold School said:
Umbreon is usually pretty good and Foul Play is nice. Jolteon was mid and probably should be UU, but I've tried it in OU and it's better than Kilowattrell (which should also be UU) as a fast Volt Switch mon. Espeon might have some niches with Magic Bounce, but it is outclassed by Hatterene. Those are the only others I could see having some niche, and Umbreon is probably the best bet of the 3.
Click to expand...
Wait, what does Umbreon even get? It lost Toxic and Heal Bell. I’m genuinely curious what you’re running as your last move (I know the first three are Foul Play, Wish and Protect).
 
unironically tho, why doesn't quaquaval have a stronger place in the meta? i haven't seen too much of higher elo but I've done some matches with a rain team and once it gets going, pretty much nothing can stop the aqua step + moxie + rain + mystic water combination, esp when you run close combat and aqua jet with it
 
FORTNlTE said:
unironically tho, why doesn't quaquaval have a stronger place in the meta? i haven't seen too much of higher elo but I've done some matches with a rain team and once it gets going, pretty much nothing can stop the aqua step + moxie + rain + mystic water combination, esp when you run close combat and aqua jet with it
Click to expand...

Honestly, I personally see it a lot. As you said the strong combo with Aqua Jet + Close Combat + Aqua Step. I would say it's ranked B+ currently with the Viability ranking out now but reality it's a A- at least.


| 40 | Quaquaval | 5.126% |

I think the reason you don't see it as often is because of Storm Drain + Unaware Dondozo + Toxapex (Just off the top of my head).
 
alephgalactus said:
Wait, what does Umbreon even get? It lost Toxic and Heal Bell. I’m genuinely curious what you’re running as your last move (I know the first three are Foul Play, Wish and Protect).
Click to expand...

Depends what you are trying to do. The set is Foul Play, Moonlight, Snarl, and T-Wave on a physically defensive set with Synchronize and Tera Dark. It's better at switching into physical attackers than Grimmsnarl and can potentially double STAB Foul Play. I thought that was maybe worth testing as a niche with all the strong attackers this gen, but I want to be clear that I haven't tested this nearly enough to say if it's viable at this point.

Umbreon also has several other possible niches that it mostly gets outclassed in, but could maybe be something in combination.

Anyway, my point in all this is not to definitively say Umbreon deserves to be OU. It's to say I don't know yet and I'm not at the point where I would explicitly rule it out from having a potential role or two.
 
Bold School said:
Anyway, my point in all this is not to definitively say Umbreon deserves to be OU. It's to say I don't know yet and I'm not at the point where I would explicitly rule it out from having a potential role or two.
Click to expand...
All right, that’s fair. I was just thinking that there’s not many reasons for using it over Ting-Lu besides being a Wishpasser (which isn’t exactly a viable role right now), but I didn’t know it got Thunder Wave this gen. Still probably not worth considering in OU, I would think.

Anyway, if I see another Pokémon name ending in “eon” I’m going to reach through the computer screen like a cartoon and show whoever typed it an eon of pain, so let’s discuss literally any topic that doesn’t evolve from Eevee.
 
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Hey guys, just figured I'd drop a set for one of my favorite mons. It might not be that viable, but here it is.

1671011220164.png

LuminEON @ ... wait a minute, how'd this get here...

Quaquaval @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Step
- Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner

You can replace the boots with your item of choice, though I find boots to be the most useful right now. This does hard lose to things like dondozo and defensive corv without a moxie boost, so be careful! Works very well as an end game sweeper, aqua step and moxie are a great pair. I also have water tera type on, though maybe there's a more useful one. Water just lets aqua step have a bit more power to hopefully grab the kill and get a moxie boost out of it.

This meta seems really focused on hazards right now, and stuff like garchomp is super common. Maybe we'll start seeing more rapid spin tatsugiri's or just boots on everything. Could be interesting.
 
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