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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Amidst the chaos following the Tera decision, I wanted to share a neat Garg tweak I've used the last couple of days.
Garganacl @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 216 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Salt Cure
- Tera Blast
- Recover
We're all familiar with Garganacl, but a couple of problems I ran into while playing Garg balance/BO builds were 1) using a team where Water Garg fits best, and playing a matchup where Garg wants to Tera to help vs a Gholdengo or something, but also wants to avoid Tera'ing because it will get nuked by an opposing Garg if it does, and 2) getting my progress/tempo slowed down by opposing Tusker switches. So, I came up with this to mitigate those problems, and it does a passable job. Most of the time, Garg will be the thing on its team that wants the Tera the most, so the opportunity cost of Tera Blast becoming dead weight in games where you don't Tera is a lot smaller of a risk than with some other mons. Cloak lets you consistently force out opposing Garg and make them take hazards on re-entry (and I find Garg doesn't miss the lefties recovery as much as I expected him to), and Tera Blast lets you make progress in matchups where more immediate damage is needed than can be provided by Salt Cure. Most importantly, it lets Garg dent Great Tusk, which makes it harder for it to come back in later to threaten your other members or spin away your hazards. It also helps significantly vs Tera'd NP + Recover Gholdengo, for example. The 32 Attack EVs let it OHKO banded Cinder after rocks, Chi-Yu after a spike, and 2HKO Clodsire so you limit its layer-setting.
Definitely not a set that can fit everywhere but on teams that need the specific role compression it provides it's quite effective.
Garganacl @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 216 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Salt Cure
- Tera Blast
- Recover
We're all familiar with Garganacl, but a couple of problems I ran into while playing Garg balance/BO builds were 1) using a team where Water Garg fits best, and playing a matchup where Garg wants to Tera to help vs a Gholdengo or something, but also wants to avoid Tera'ing because it will get nuked by an opposing Garg if it does, and 2) getting my progress/tempo slowed down by opposing Tusker switches. So, I came up with this to mitigate those problems, and it does a passable job. Most of the time, Garg will be the thing on its team that wants the Tera the most, so the opportunity cost of Tera Blast becoming dead weight in games where you don't Tera is a lot smaller of a risk than with some other mons. Cloak lets you consistently force out opposing Garg and make them take hazards on re-entry (and I find Garg doesn't miss the lefties recovery as much as I expected him to), and Tera Blast lets you make progress in matchups where more immediate damage is needed than can be provided by Salt Cure. Most importantly, it lets Garg dent Great Tusk, which makes it harder for it to come back in later to threaten your other members or spin away your hazards. It also helps significantly vs Tera'd NP + Recover Gholdengo, for example. The 32 Attack EVs let it OHKO banded Cinder after rocks, Chi-Yu after a spike, and 2HKO Clodsire so you limit its layer-setting.
Definitely not a set that can fit everywhere but on teams that need the specific role compression it provides it's quite effective.
Some people (including me), should just git gut.
Sources reveal Gholdengo to also be on the tiering radar.
If you saw what the council has put on the radar (Dragonite, Espartha, Chi-Yu, Annihilape, Gholdengo, and Cyclizar), that's a very reasonable list.
At least people isn't asking to ban SR anymore.
I think the list is at least a little bit longer than that. Garg for one has already been confirmed (via Finch's sources) to be on the radar, and Chien-Pao was on the radar last time and I would be very surprised if it wasn't there again (not that I expect it to be banned). Outside of that, maybe Valiant and Roaring Moon have potential to appear, as they have in the past, though I don't think anyone cares to ban them at this point.
Nonetheless, there hasn't been a vote on these things in about a month so I agree it's not too many Pokemon. And aside from Chi-Yu, Cyclizar, and Annihilape, I'd be very surprised if any of them got QB'd.
If Pao doesn't get ban this time I expect that all the hate towards Chi-Yu will be put on it. Shares most of Chi-Yu's traits, is faster and has access to priority which is a big deal for offense.
Sources confirm Chien-Pao is present on the radar.
Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao are weak to Mach Punch, Both Breloom and Pawmot resist Sucker Punch but not Ice Shard for Breloom since it gets OHKOd by it against Choice Band variants. Pawmot takes about 58.7 - 69.3% from a Choice Band Ice Shard.
Finch outright stated it's likely to be suspected or even quickbanned. There's nothing to doubt there.
Also, Espathra is broken with tera and the meta hasn't adapted to it. Tera fighting/fairy invalidates it's wannabe checks
The meta adapted very well to it that isn't even OU. Doubt it is getting banned, especially if Cyclizar gets banned.
Espathra is on the radar, but I’d say it’s less likely to get quickbanned than other things listed such as Chi-Yu, Cyclizar, and Annihilape. Anything is possible of course though.
BlackKnight_Gawain
PUPL Champion
Sources leakier than a broken faucet.
(to avoid lame one liner: really interesting the bird is still up for debate, and that dragonite is getting attention as well even if I think it isn't as bad as it was before, thanks sources)
Well suspect is a likely, and for quickban I mostly implied it's a possibility. Although I don't believe Espathra should be quickbanned (only thing I think should be considered for qb is Cyclizar)
Id be very surprised if espathra needs any form of action if cyclizar gets axed; shed tail seems super important to espathra functioning, even more-so than tera prr calcs
The only reason a couple of mons are still legal in OU was the suspect test taking forever. Now that it's over and the community voted to ban abusers of tera rather then the mechanic itself there is so much that needs to go.
Don't kid yourself, the current state of OU is horrible balance wise. Banning the 3+ mons that either delete playstyles entirely or turn games into instant coinflips on team preview will solve alot of the issues.
Bruh, more then just shed tail needs to be quickbanned lol. Like you can't seriously believe that Fish/Ape are healthy or skill based.
I don't get this logic, Orthworm isn't as good because it lacks the speed and regenerator. Cyclizar with regenerator allows to bring safely set up sweepers more than once in a game, that is why people looks at it like busted.
The move itself isn't broken otherwise people would ask to ban Orthworm too, also don't see the point on banning just the move to keep Cyclizar, without shed tail there is noy a good reason to use it.
While not trying to burst your bubble, I'm under the impression that unlike Houndstone the move is shared by multiple mons and therefore qualifies for a ban of the move rather then the mon.
since the move is shared, it is theoretically allowed to be suspected, but first you have to prove that it is the piece that makes these mons broken and/or uncompetitive, so orthoworm has to give a similar level of pressure (even if not 1:1 w cyclizar). Personally, I'm not sure if orthrworm is nearly that good of a user of shed tail, but also I haven't played in a while so X_X
speaking of that, I decide to skip this suspect test bc i had a holiday break, I come back and I back read the funniest event to happen in an ou forum. truly incredible. excited for suspects and qbs to pick up again to get this tier back to speed
That is exactly why I mentioned Orthworm, it isn't as problematic as Cyclizar because it lacks the trails that make Cyclizar + shed tail being on the radar. If shed tail alone were that OP both, Orthworm and Cyclizar, would be considered to be banned, not just the later.
Why tf is there an NU leader? There’s no nu
Is anything truly real? Is this all a simulation?
We are voting on Cyclizar, not Shed Tail. Shed Tail is not broken because Orthworm uses it to the effect of being viable, but not problematic. In fact, it is even UU. Cyclizar’s characteristics such as high speed, Regenerator, and even perhaps other movepool utility enable Cyclizar with Shed Tail to be problematic.
You cannot isolate the move, but you can clearly isolate the Pokemon for its whole presence. The same goes for Rage Fist and Annihilape — we clearly have to look at Annihilape in this instance.
You cannot isolate the move, but you can clearly isolate the Pokemon for its whole presence. The same goes for Rage Fist and Annihilape — we clearly have to look at Annihilape in this instance.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1763775352-lcpl50eun10il801lzfu8hbbct8pgc8pw
Aight bet, I made this team in literally 30 seconds by spamming the most broken mons in the tier rn, now tell me these mfs don't deserve to get banned.
Aight bet, I made this team in literally 30 seconds by spamming the most broken mons in the tier rn, now tell me these mfs don't deserve to get banned.
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