Resource SV OU Post-HOME Viability Ranking Thread [ Final Update: Post #280 ]

[Finchinator]

art by ausma | VR concept credit goes to PK Gaming | run by Finchinator​

Welcome to the post-HOME Scarlet and Violet Overused viability rankings!

In this thread, we, as a community, will be ranking every single justifiably usable Pokemon into "tiers" ranking their viability in the metagame. You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are viable in OU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes, but the ultimate decision will be handled by OU Viability Rankings council vote during each slate of rankings!

The general idea of the topic is to rank each OU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a tier list for the entire metagame, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense, defense, and supportive presences in the metagame within this thread. For example, Cinderace can be ranked in the A- tier as a supportive presence, Walking Wake can be ranked in the A- as an offensive presence, and Dondozo can be ranked in the A- tier as a defensive presence.

Finally, there will be a council of experienced players who will discuss and vote on the ranking of Pokemon. Depending on how the metagame is developing, we could update the thread every couple of weeks or every month+. Please note that your posts still very much matter and will be factored in to what we discuss and the discussions themselves. This thread is nothing without the posters and every informed opinion that is shared is considered a valuable contribution in my eyes, so do not hesitate to post if you know the metagame well and understand the forum rules. The council will consist of the following users:

• airfare
• ausma
• ayevon
• Baloor
• Finchinator
• Highv0ltag3
• ironwater
• Lily
• Mimikyu Stardust
• njnp
• Ruft
• TPP

S Rank:

S Rank

Great Tusk

Kingambit

S- Rank

Gholdengo

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Baxcalibur

Dragapult

Iron Valiant (drop from S-)

Samurott-Hisui (rise from A)

Slowking-Galar

Ting-Lu

Zapdos

A Rank

Amoonguss

Cinderace

Dragonite

Enamorus (drop from A+)

Garganacl

Greninja

Landorus-Therian (rise from A-)

Moltres (rise from A-)

Walking Wake

Zamazenta-Hero

A- Rank

Dondozo

Iron Moth

Meowscarada (rise from B+)

Sneasler (drop from A)

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Clodsire (rise from B)

Corviknight

Hatterene (drop from A-)

Hoopa-Unbound

Rotom-Wash (drop from A-)

Skeledirge

Torkoal (rise from B)

Toxapex (drop from A-)

Ursaluna

B Rank

Azumarill (drop from B+)

Basculegion

Brute Bonnet (rise from C+)

Cresselia (drop from B+)

Enamorus-Therian (drop from B+)

Glimmora (drop from B+)

Garchomp

Heatran (drop from A-)

Hydreigon

Lilligant-Hisui

Moltres-Galar

Pelipper

Rillaboom

Roaring Moon (drop from B+)

Sandy Shocks

Scream Tail

Slowking

Volcanion (drop from B+)

B- Rank

Alomomola (rise from C+)

Blissey (rise from C+)

Breloom

Maushold (rise from C+)

Muk-Alola

Scizor (drop from B)

Thundurus-Therian

Tornadus-Therian

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Arcanine-Hisui

Armarouge (rise from C)

Basculegion-Female (drop from B-)

Ceruledge (rise from C)
Cyclizar (rise from UR)

Floatzel (rise from C)

Grimmsnarl

Hawlucha (drop from B-)

Indeedee (rise from C)

Iron Hands (drop from B-)

Iron Jugulis

Iron Treads (drop from B-)

Polteageist

Tinkaton (rise from D)


C Rank

Abomasnow

Articuno-Galar

Frosmoth

Pincurchin (rise from D)

Talonflame
Wo-Chien (rise from UR)

D Rank:

D Rank

Braviary-Hisui

Cloyster
Decidueye-Hisui (rise from UR)

Ditto (drop from C)
Drifblim (rise from UR)

Gastrodon
Grafaiai (rise from UR)

Magnezone (drop from C)

Masquerain

Mew (drop from C+)

Mimikyu

Pawmot (drop from C)

Quaquaval (drop from C)

Regidrago

Slither Wing

Slowbro

Toedscruel

Zapdos-Galar

Zoroark-Hisui

Rules - Updated as of 7/2/2023

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will be deleted and potentially infracted if it is a repeat issue. Expand on your opinion with actual analysis showing understanding of the metagame and perhaps bringing a unique perspective to the conversation.
• Absolutely no flaming, personal attacks, or general idiocy will be tolerated. Part of this is under moderator discretion and please know that posting in this thread is a privilege, not a right. You'll get warned initially if it is not something overly malicious, but harsher punishments can and will come with repeated behavior or severe offenses.
• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. There needs to be more substance than just this. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
• When nominating a Pokemon to move from one rank to another, do not merely list its obvious qualities such as stats, typing, movepool, etc. If you think a Pokemon deserves to rise or drop, explain what has changed in the meta to cause such Pokemon to get better or worse. I can assure you that the VR Council already knows the obvious qualities and we are far more interested in understanding why you believe it has increased or decreased in viability.
• Unrelated discussion such as talk of (potential) suspects and unproductive one liners that do not greatly contribute to discussion will be deleted. If this becomes a recurring issue for any particular user, then it could lead to an infraction. If you are unsure where to post something, feel free to start a conversation with me on here or discord. Moreover, if you have a general question, then odds are it belongs in the SQSA, not here.
• Being OU by usage alone does not guarantee a ranking. We touched on usage not being the sole reason behind viability of anything before, but this is very true here as a lot of things accumulate ladder usage despite not being the best option. Do not mistake the correlation between usage and viability as stronger than it actually is. If you have any further questions about this, please start a conversation with me on here or discord instead of posting it in this thread.
• When new Pokemon, items, abilities, and/or anything else relevant to the OU metagame are released, please hold off on discussing the ranking of the new Pokemon or the rankings of Pokemon that are impacted by these developments until there is approval to discuss the matter by an OU Moderator in this thread.
• Failure to follow these rules after warning(s) will result in an infraction or possibly a ban depending on the severity of the offenses.
• If you are nominating a Pokemon to be ranked (meaning it was previously unranked), then you need to provide replays of it being used in the metagame and you also should go out of your way to be as thorough as possible in explaining why it has a niche in the metagame (Example of GOOD UR Nomination) -- a vast majority of nominations have been of poor quality historically and we reserve the right to revoke nomination privileges from thread posters at any point in time. If you are in doubt, then feel free to start a conversation with me on here or discord prior to nominating a Pokemon and I will give you honest feedback on the post.

Blacklisted Pokemon: All posts regarding these Pokemon will be deleted (or nominations of these Pokemon will be removed)

• None (for now)

I am hoping for a productive discussion to take place in this thread throughout the generation. I am looking forward to seeing the metagame develop in front of our eyes; I find this to be a very cool prospect and it is one of the main reasons why I elect to run this thread. With this said, I am still only one person and our moderation team only consists of so many people, so try not to make our lives too hard here...post intelligently, lurk before commenting if you are new, and do not expect everything to be moderated super closely 24/7. We are all volunteering our time and effort to maintain threads like these, so we expect a certain degree of respect and understanding of this.

 

[Finchinator]

Reserved for update log

 

[Finchinator]

This list was voted on around a week ago. I personally intend to make the following nominations when nominations open to address more recent shifts (please note: this is just my opinion):

• from S to S-/A+
• to A to A+
• from A- to A
• from B+ to A-
• from B to B-
• from B- to B/B+
• from C+ to B-/B

If you have questions on any of these, perhaps hold them for next slate. I am sure there are many more things to address as this is just a very quick, arbitrary list of things that came to mind as we prepare to open this for questions.

 

[Finchinator]

With this in mind, the thread is NOT OPEN TO NOMINATIONS OR DISCUSSION OF THE RANKS.

For the next 24 hours, you may ask questions about any rankings (or lack thereof) in this thread. I am traveling and starting vacation tomorrow, but I will do my best to respond. Some others may also respond, so stay tuned for that.

To be clear: we are NOT open to nominations yet. We are now open for questions on the initial VR. Do not ask repeat questions please.

 

[Finchinator]

This is now open for posting (please see the above post for instructions for the first 24h period).

 

[viivian]

i'm the first one here yaaay (i think)

anyways i'm really happy with samurott's placement here, i think it's good but i'm especially glad it wasn't placed super high. but what makes corviknight and hoopa-U B+ rank instead of at least A-?

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

What caused Hisuian Zoroark go from A- to unviable in a month

 

[Finchinator]

anyways i'm really happy with samurott's placement here, i think it's good but i'm especially glad it wasn't placed super high. but what makes corviknight and hoopa-U B+ rank instead of at least A-?

Corviknight is not a very good Pokemon right now. Bulk Up sets have died out entirely while Defog sets end up getting caught in awkwardly predictable, passive loops a lot while facing competition from Court Change Cinderace, Rapid Spin Great Tusk, etc. Losing to Gholdengo when trying to Defog is the icing on the cake there. Corviknight has definitely seen better days; it is still very viable, but it is limited.

Hoopa-U has cool sets like AV, Eject Pack, and Choice Specs which can help it both break and serve some offensive purposes, but it faces pretty stiff competition among darks and does not do a ton on the bloated defensive checklist to fit on to many teams right now.

 

[Mega Breloom]

What caused Hisuian Zoroark go from A- to unviable in a month

It was not a month, the ranking wasn't updated since its introduction when the new toy syndrome made it look better than it was, once people adapted to it was a low tier pick and with the Home update it just can't compete with the rest of the tier.

 

[Finchinator]

What caused Hisuian Zoroark go from A- to unviable in a month

Offense. Balance. Stall. Quick Claw.

My ladder hero friend used to tell me stories about the old days, a time of peace when Zoroark-Hisui was very viable. But that all changed when Pokemon HOME attacked. Only the most creative pokegod could save him. Only he could stop the ruthless new Pokemon, but when the world needed him most, he vanished. A hundred years have passed and Pokemon HOME is nearing victory in the war on Zoroark-Hisui

 

[Yoko]

just wondering what makes donbozo (dondozo) a A- tier

 

[Finchinator]

just wondering what makes donbozo (dondozo) a A- tier

It is a great hard-stop to a handful of set-up users, but it struggles a lot with Knock Off, Rest reliance, and a lot of stronger special attackers that came out. It is only able to work on a small portion of teams because of this, but it is a physically defensive cornerstone on those teams. It is a very good Pokemon given this, but its limitations stop it short of being great or top tier.

 

[viivian]

Corviknight is not a very good Pokemon right now. Bulk Up sets have died out entirely while Defog sets end up getting caught in awkwardly predictable, passive loops a lot while facing competition from Court Change Cinderace, Rapid Spin Great Tusk, etc. Losing to Gholdengo when trying to Defog is the icing on the cake there. Corviknight has definitely seen better days; it is still very viable, but it is limited.

Hoopa-U has cool sets like AV, Eject Pack, and Choice Specs which can help it both break and serve some offensive purposes, but it faces pretty stiff competition among darks and does not do a ton on the bloated defensive checklist to fit on to many teams right now.

both of these make a lot of sense but i still do find hoopa to be better than what its placement lets on. a lot of bulkier teams running around right now and hoopa does a really good job of dismantling them with its many different breaking sets. still tho B+ is at least decent for it

one last question that i forgot to ask in my initial post is why hydreigon is B since i expected the meta to be far more harsh to it with the amount of new threats running around

What caused Hisuian Zoroark go from A- to unviable in a month

HOME meta powercreep fucked this guy over so badly. it's slightly better off now since a lot of the really fast attackers like regieleki and especially chien-pao are banned but it's still really hard to make work in this much more powerful metagame. it especially hates kingambit being so good but even past that it still struggles against a lot of the top tiers

 

[artificialdeath]

What developments specifically have made Clod fall all the way to C+?

 

[Finchinator]

one last question that i forgot to ask in my initial post is why hydreigon is B since i expected the meta to be far more harsh to it with the amount of new threats running around

Sub NP Hydreigon is able to really capitalize on bulky cores right now; imagine it pulling up against non-WW Ting Lu, Toxapex, utility Great Tusk, Skeledirge, Dondozo, Rotom-W, Slowking, etc. and it’ll probably make more sense. It isn’t the same bonkers breaker of prior generations, but it has some finesse to it that’ll salvage its viability for the time being.

 

[Finchinator]

What developments specifically have made Clod fall all the way to C+?

Feel like it is a victim of a lot. For starters, Encore being used on a lot of set-up/hyper offense makes it a much less effective hyper offense stopper as an Unaware Pokemon, which is big hit. But also in terms of metagame trends, Urshifu-Rapid and Volcarona being banned hurt it as Water Absorb sets died out and Unaware sets lost one of their best reasons to come out. It’s still solid on stall and even viable on fat balance, but so many Ground types and generally strong physical attackers punish its passivity. There are also more hazard setters that offer a lot of different things that Clodsire does not, relegating it to normally be justified by having Toxic, as not many things use that, but this really isn’t enough to use it outside of specific bulky structures sadly.

 

[NotInMyChristianServer]

Just wondering what puts Amoonguss above Landorus-T and Heatran. Between the neverending HO teams I run into in ladder and the fact most threats that in theory checks (Sneasler and Iron Valiant come to mind) can muscle through it quite easily thanks to SD Tera-boosted coverage (Acrobatics and Knock Off, respectively), I just don't think Amoonguss is particularly good in this metagame.

 

[Yoko]

what has made zapdos a A+ tier pokemon while its counter part galarian zapdos a C tier pokemon

 

[Finchinator]

Just wondering what puts Amoonguss above Landorus-T and Heatran. Between the neverending HO teams I run into in ladder and the fact most threats that in theory checks (Sneasler and Iron Valiant come to mind) can muscle through it quite easily thanks to SD Tera-boosted coverage (Acrobatics and Knock Off, respectively), I just don't think Amoonguss is particularly good in this metagame.

Ngl in my opinion, I’d have Amoonguss a little lower, but others understandably feel different. Amoonguss has been a role compression beneficiary recently. Red Card + Spore forcing sleep early in games is a huge way to flip positions and it doing well into Valiant, which can otherwise sweep easily, and walking CB Zama-H goes a long way. Just a generally convenient Pokemon. I don’t see how you can say Iron Valiant easily muscles last it unless you’re running a very unconventional set ngl.

Landorus-T faces such stiff competition right now that it’s definitely not where it usually is viability wise, too, which leaves it feeling low naturally.

 

[Finchinator]

what has made zapdos a A+ tier pokemon while its counter part galarian zapdos a C tier pokemon

They’re entirely incomparable. Zapdos is one of the best Pokémon right now with an awesome dual STAB, a game changing ability like Static, and a super practical defensive presence in a metagame filled with Great Tusk, Zama-H, and so on. It is also generally hard to swap into for offense and even balance if they lack a Ruination Ting Lu or GKing.

Zapdos-G is limited to mostly band and fringe, Tera reliant BU sets maybe. It’s seen very sporadically and it has a very minimal niche.

 

[Squaredash]

So what makes breloom D rank when scizor is C+? Breloom can do pretty much anything scizor does but better. Sure, it has less bulk and a worse defensive typing, but spore gives it a lot more variety in sets, and it matches up better into some of the top threats, particularly kingambit, who is absolutely and utterly useless as long as breloom is alive unless gambit terastilizes, and even then, forcing it to tera can potentially make such an annoying pokemon easier to deal with.

 

[NotInMyChristianServer]

Ngl in my opinion, I’d have Amoonguss a little lower, but others understandably feel different. Amoonguss has been a role compression beneficiary recently. Red Card + Spore forcing sleep early in games is a huge way to flip positions and it doing well into Valiant, which can otherwise sweep easily, and walking CB Zama-H goes a long way. Just a generally convenient Pokemon. I don’t see how you can say Iron Valiant easily muscles last it unless you’re running a very unconventional set ngl.

Landorus-T faces such stiff competition right now that it’s definitely not where it usually is viability wise, too, which leaves it feeling low naturally.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I have to say my experience facing Amoonguss has been quite scarce to say the least, which is why I wondered what makes it a serious competitor in this meta. Not to mention that most of my teams are heavy voltturn spam BOs, so I just defaulted to run Eject Button Amoonguss, not exactly the best set rn.

 

[clairepods]

Curious what circumstances have changed to knock Ceruledge down so far; on a cursory glance it seems like it could still hold its own but what do I know

 

[pokeclysm]

Just one thing that should be corrected, at the top of the post it says

Welcome to the first ever Scarlet and Violet Overused viability rankings!

Even though this is the 2nd SV OU viability ranking. Seems like it should say something different?

 

[Finchinator]

So what makes breloom D rank when scizor is C+? Breloom can do pretty much anything scizor does but better. Sure, it has less bulk and a worse defensive typing, but spore gives it a lot more variety in sets, and it matches up better into some of the top threats, particularly kingambit, who is absolutely and utterly useless as long as breloom is alive unless gambit terastilizes, and even then, forcing it to tera can potentially make such an annoying pokemon easier to deal with.

Ngl I kinda stopped following when you said Breloom can do anything Scizor can, but better, and then proceeded to explain part of why Scizor was better at during the start of the following sentence.

With this in mind, a lot of Steel types are ranked a bit higher than others of similar perceived strength. It’s the best defensive typing, but there are so few. Breloom is probably more fit for C than D to me, but saying it unilaterally outclasses Scizor when one is more of a suicide lead Spore user and the other is a Steel type who plays very differently and focuses more on late game isn’t right.

I find your comparison to not really be valid here, sorry.