Resource SV OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread

YNM said:
Considering that Serperior is very likely to get banned as well due to Stellar Tera, I feel like we're gonna need to have clear proof of that mechanic being completely unhealthy for the meta, otherwise the Council will probably just resort to quickbanning both mons and call it a day. I guess we're gonna have to wait and see how good that Tera actually is.
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Stellar Tera? Serperior seems like a very sub-par user of it since the move just boosts a given Type 1 time for 1 move use, which means Serperior's MO of utility to spam Leaf Storm to win gets very little out of it (and it's pure offense without anything like type-flipping to survive a would-be KO). The Contrary inversion of the Stellar Tera Blast boosts sounds good in theory but it's for a weaker hit giving a lesser boost on something that's Pure Normal vs a non-Tera target.

If Serp ends up unhealthy I'd expect it to be from regular Tera, whether Tera Blast for coverage or even Tera Grass to brute force Leaf Storm harder.
 
pika pal said:
Stellar Tera? Serperior seems like a very sub-par user of it since the move just boosts a given Type 1 time for 1 move use, which means Serperior's MO of utility to spam Leaf Storm to win gets very little out of it (and it's pure offense without anything like type-flipping to survive a would-be KO). The Contrary inversion of the Stellar Tera Blast boosts sounds good in theory but it's for a weaker hit giving a lesser boost on something that's Pure Normal vs a non-Tera target.

If Serp ends up unhealthy I'd expect it to be from regular Tera, whether Tera Blast for coverage or even Tera Grass to brute force Leaf Storm harder.
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Serp doesn't really care about the boost from Tera IMO. What it does like is Tera Blast having neutral coverage on everything (including the likes of Heatran and Corviknight) AND preserving its Leaf Storm PP so it can play a bit more recklessly. Doing something like Leaf Storming -> Spamming Stella Tera Blast vs mons like Heatran to make your self stronger and wear them down seems like a legitimate strategy to me, especially on a set like Substitute Glare, which can fish for misses / paralysis and is passively recovering health. IMO this is much better than any other Tera Blast type it could use, as it will not have any noticable holes into anything (i.e. Tera Fire loses to Heatran, Tera Ground loses to Corv, etc.)
 
Magcargo said:
Serp doesn't really care about the boost from Tera IMO. What it does like is Tera Blast having neutral coverage on everything (including the likes of Heatran and Corviknight) AND preserving its Leaf Storm PP so it can play a bit more recklessly. Doing something like Leaf Storming -> Spamming Stella Tera Blast vs mons like Heatran to make your self stronger and wear them down seems like a legitimate strategy to me, especially on a set like Substitute Glare, which can fish for misses / paralysis and is passively recovering health.
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Okay that was something I wasn't clear on: If Stellar Blast into non-Tera Targets became True Neutral or remained Normal-Type damage. If it's pure Neutral I could see more concern with that
 
YNM said:
Considering that Serperior is very likely to get banned as well due to Stellar Tera, I feel like we're gonna need to have clear proof of that mechanic being completely unhealthy for the meta, otherwise the Council will probably just resort to quickbanning both mons and call it a day. I guess we're gonna have to wait and see how good that Tera actually is.
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Terapagos’ Stellar Form isn’t really comparable to other Pokémon using Stellar Tera. It gets a 100 BST increase and its STAB move becomes neutral on everything WITHOUT lowering its attack stats 1 stage & WITHOUT only being a 1-time STAB, (from what I last heard from mechanics testing). If it’s broken, (it will be), it won’t really reflect on Stellar Tera as a whole.
 
TheTraininator said:
Terapagos’ Stellar Form isn’t really comparable to other Pokémon using Stellar Tera. It gets a 100 BST increase and its STAB move becomes neutral on everything WITHOUT lowering its attack stats 1 stage & WITHOUT only being a 1-time STAB, (from what I last heard from mechanics testing). If it’s broken, (it will be), it won’t really reflect on Stellar Tera as a whole.
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If so, would a ban on Terapagos from Tera-ing considered a complex ban? Because by itself without the mechanic it's a decent mon thanks to faux Multiscale and a setup move but not very banworthy.
 
tinyranitar said:
If so, would a ban on Terapagos from Tera-ing considered a complex ban? Because by itself without the mechanic it's a decent mon thanks to faux Multiscale and a setup move but not very banworthy.
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Yeah, this is what I’m wondering. There’s technically precedent for something similar with the Mega Rayquaza ban, but that was a ban from Ubers and not from OU.
 
KamenOH said:
I dont think itd be complex at all. "Terapagos-Stellar (or whatever) is banned from OU" is about as concise as it gets, really. It's a form change, and will likely be treated as such.
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it's technically a complex ban, but there is precedent for it—rayquaza was specifically banned from mega evolving. the same could easily be done for terapagos; if the stellar form and only the stellar form turns out to be broken, it would be fairly straightforward to introduce a "terapagos clause" preventing it from using tera. to me, this is different from a tera blacklist because no other pokemon gets an extra 100 bst from tera, so nothing else would be in consideration for barring from being able to terastallize
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
it's technically a complex ban, but there is precedent for it—rayquaza was specifically banned from mega evolving. the same could easily be done for terapagos; if the stellar form and only the stellar form turns out to be broken, it would be fairly straightforward to introduce a "terapagos clause" preventing it from using tera. to me, this is different from a tera blacklist because no other pokemon gets an extra 100 bst from tera, so nothing else would be in consideration for barring from being able to terastallize
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Another question, is Terapagos locked into Stellar tera or can its tera be changed? And does it signature move change type when tera-ed?
 
How long does it usually take for a new metagame to come online? Its more curiousity than annoyed or anything, because I can also use this for future references i.e. if Gen 10 has dlc. I don't mind waiting longer if it will be better than releasing it half baked.
 
Heatranator said:
How long does it usually take for a new metagame to come online? Its more curiousity than annoyed or anything, because I can also use this for future references i.e. if Gen 10 has dlc.
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As far as I know they got the DLC 1 up and running after 1 day, but since DLC 2 has a bunch of new mechanic like Stellar tera and Terapagos, I think it would take them a smidge longer to fully discover the mechanic, bug and all.
 
^Not secret, but Maushold is still great at cleaning up even on a Gholdengo switch and smacks things for massive damage, and Hatterene can keep your field clean at least for longer on the more passive setters, and will even have the option to forgo Psychic/Psyshock for Psychic Noise to stop healing.
Anything past that will have to be refined as the meta evolves... or starts at all, for that matter.
Plan C is to get reqs to ban Ghold/Glisc when the time comes, so make of that what you will.
 
Wapf said:
Anyone got any secret hazard removal plans in the coffer? I know with gliscor coming back plus both deoxys forms being allowed, spikes are going to be EVERYWHERE and removal is going to be so rough
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Tusk can beat Air Baloon Gholdengo now thanks to Temper Flare. If Gholdengo came in on a Ground/Fighting/Spin immunity, that would double the Temper Flare damage

4 Atk Great Tusk Tempe Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 284-336 (90.1 - 106.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Temper Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 344-406 (109.2 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don't think this makes Tusk too much of a hard counter but Balloon Gholdengo gonna get a tougher time now
 
Wapf said:
Anyone got any secret hazard removal plans in the coffer? I know with gliscor coming back plus both deoxys forms being allowed, spikes are going to be EVERYWHERE and removal is going to be so rough
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Drill is BACK to SAVE OU.

Also Tusk getting temper flare as stated earlier makes it more consistent into Dengo.
 
Wapf said:
Anyone got any secret hazard removal plans in the coffer? I know with gliscor coming back plus both deoxys forms being allowed, spikes are going to be EVERYWHERE and removal is going to be so rough
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tidy up cinccino baby! it's no maushold in terms of raw stab power, but it's got some pretty solid coverage, and loaded dice lets it almost run technician and skill link at the same time. it even gets knock off to deal with gholdengo—a 97.5 power dark move off of base 95 attack at +1 is substantially better than maushold's 90-power dark move off of base 75 attack at +1
 
Magcargo said:
Serp doesn't really care about the boost from Tera IMO. What it does like is Tera Blast having neutral coverage on everything (including the likes of Heatran and Corviknight) AND preserving its Leaf Storm PP so it can play a bit more recklessly. Doing something like Leaf Storming -> Spamming Stella Tera Blast vs mons like Heatran to make your self stronger and wear them down seems like a legitimate strategy to me, especially on a set like Substitute Glare, which can fish for misses / paralysis and is passively recovering health. IMO this is much better than any other Tera Blast type it could use, as it will not have any noticable holes into anything (i.e. Tera Fire loses to Heatran, Tera Ground loses to Corv, etc.)
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Stealar tera blast is neutral, not normal
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
it's technically a complex ban, but there is precedent for it—rayquaza was specifically banned from mega evolving. the same could easily be done for terapagos; if the stellar form and only the stellar form turns out to be broken, it would be fairly straightforward to introduce a "terapagos clause" preventing it from using tera. to me, this is different from a tera blacklist because no other pokemon gets an extra 100 bst from tera, so nothing else would be in consideration for barring from being able to terastallize
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Honestly, the precedent im thinking of is the various Mega forms thatve been banned in OU, like Blaziken (though thats mostly because hot chicken was also banned), Metagross the unfairly banned (they seriously said something along the lines of "it can run ten moves at once" because apparently having multiple sets was too much?) and Sableye the straggler, among probably a couple others.

Now, if its the only thing Terapagos can tera into, then yeah id say its unequivocally complex because youre saying "cant terastalize if its terapagos"
 
KamenOH said:
Honestly, the precedent im thinking of is the various Mega forms thatve been banned in OU, like Blaziken (though thats mostly because hot chicken was also banned), Metagross the unfairly banned (they seriously said something along the lines of "it can run ten moves at once" because apparently having multiple sets was too much?) and Sableye the straggler, among probably a couple others.

Now, if its the only thing Terapagos can tera into, then yeah id say its unequivocally complex because youre saying "cant terastalize if its terapagos"
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Banning Mega was never a complex ban until Mega Ray, because you can simply ban the Mega Stone (Item bans weren't considered complex)

Ray WAS a complex ban due to the fact it's banning you from clicking a button .
 
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