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Metagame SV Pokebilities AAA (It's a permaladder now!)
- Thread starter Miss Crisis
- Start date
LETS FUCKING GO
Since this is now a permanent ladder I might as well make a serious case to unban Keldeo.
1) It doesn't have a usable native ability, so it relies entirely on its AAA ability to function. This alone is not a reason to unban it but it already shows that it is kinda overshadowed in its role by the likes of Greninja (both normal and Battle Bond).
2)
It's pretty bad into alomst every native Regenerator, it needs to hit Specs Primordial Sea Hydro against most of them to make a dent, and then since it's choice locked they can just pivot out. It's also bad against several common AAA Regenerators like Primarina and Hatterene
3)
It's even worse against Water Absorb mons, native ones in particular already beat it pretty badly and then you can potentially slap Water Absorb on anything to make a workable Keldeo check out of thin air, like Water Absorb Great Tusk
4) Desolate Land also works similarly but it is less reliable against Primordial Sea specifically.
5) Keldeo is also really vulnerable to being revenge killed, both by faster mons (some of which like Latios, Desoland Iron Moth or Ogerpon-Wellspring can even afford to hard-switch in sometimes), and by priority like Grassy Glide and Gale Wings Brave Bird.
The main takeaway is that most teams prepare naturally for Keldeo by including basic stuff like a Regenerator core, a Water immunity, Grassy Glide or a Pokémon faster than 108 base.
Since Tinted Lens is now restricted Serperior could also be considered for a unban, but it is not such a clear cut case as Keldeo in my opinion.
1) It doesn't have a usable native ability, so it relies entirely on its AAA ability to function. This alone is not a reason to unban it but it already shows that it is kinda overshadowed in its role by the likes of Greninja (both normal and Battle Bond).
2)
It's pretty bad into alomst every native Regenerator, it needs to hit Specs Primordial Sea Hydro against most of them to make a dent, and then since it's choice locked they can just pivot out. It's also bad against several common AAA Regenerators like Primarina and Hatterene3)
It's even worse against Water Absorb mons, native ones in particular already beat it pretty badly and then you can potentially slap Water Absorb on anything to make a workable Keldeo check out of thin air, like Water Absorb Great Tusk4) Desolate Land also works similarly but it is less reliable against Primordial Sea specifically.
5) Keldeo is also really vulnerable to being revenge killed, both by faster mons (some of which like Latios, Desoland Iron Moth or Ogerpon-Wellspring can even afford to hard-switch in sometimes), and by priority like Grassy Glide and Gale Wings Brave Bird.
The main takeaway is that most teams prepare naturally for Keldeo by including basic stuff like a Regenerator core, a Water immunity, Grassy Glide or a Pokémon faster than 108 base.
Since Tinted Lens is now restricted Serperior could also be considered for a unban, but it is not such a clear cut case as Keldeo in my opinion.
Celebrating the new perma ladder, ya girl has been goofing around with weather!
Barraskewda @ Choice Band
Ability: Dazzling
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drill Run
- Flip Turn
- Liquidation
- Poison Jab
Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Volt Switch
- Earthquake
Veluza @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Aqua Cutter
- Psycho Cut
- Drill Run
Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
Alomomola @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Scald
- Wish
- Mirror Coat
Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
Ok so there's a method to the madness that is the meme Veluza- ...ok it's the only Mold Breaker mon with Flip Turn left. Could try Mold Breaker Floatzel, or even MB Barra but I prefer Dazzling on Barra for anti prio and Barra has a nice secondary STAB in Psycho Cut (just better coverage in general) but I can see Focus Punch Floatzel being a high risk way to punish Heatran. PJab on Barra for Oger, Drill Run for Desolate Land Heatran. Hands continues to stay an insane regen pivot that is vastly underrated.
Great Tusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Knock Off
- Ice Spinner
Torkoal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Body Press
Alomomola @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
Lilligant-Hisui (F) @ Protective Pads
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Victory Dance
- Axe Kick
- Solar Blade
- Triple Axel
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- U-turn
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Solar Power
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
You ever just want to NUKE shit? Yeah, Adamant Banded Proto Tusk is just pure crack in the form of a button clicker, and with Chlorophyll you outspeed near everything. It is genuinely HILARIOUS how hard this thing hits. Protective Pads Lilli-H is also nuts, No Guard because you can still miss with Triple Axel with Compound Eyes (and might as well use Axe Kick at that point). Still not super sold on Solar Power Venusaur, was considering Chlorophyll Charizard but it's soooo weak to Heatran and suffers a bit from 4MSS, could prob drop Solar Beam on it for Scorching Sands though.
I think weather teams are huge matchup fishes tbh though, they are insanely weak to Primordial Sea/Desolate Land users like Heatran, Woger, Zapdos, Torn-T, Cinderace, etc. Fun? Oh most certainly, but very very inconsistent. Cheers to permaladder!
Barraskewda @ Choice Band
Ability: Dazzling
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drill Run
- Flip Turn
- Liquidation
- Poison Jab
Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Volt Switch
- Earthquake
Veluza @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Aqua Cutter
- Psycho Cut
- Drill Run
Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
Alomomola @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Scald
- Wish
- Mirror Coat
Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
Ok so there's a method to the madness that is the meme Veluza- ...ok it's the only Mold Breaker mon with Flip Turn left. Could try Mold Breaker Floatzel, or even MB Barra but I prefer Dazzling on Barra for anti prio and Barra has a nice secondary STAB in Psycho Cut (just better coverage in general) but I can see Focus Punch Floatzel being a high risk way to punish Heatran. PJab on Barra for Oger, Drill Run for Desolate Land Heatran. Hands continues to stay an insane regen pivot that is vastly underrated.
Great Tusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Knock Off
- Ice Spinner
Torkoal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Body Press
Alomomola @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
Lilligant-Hisui (F) @ Protective Pads
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Victory Dance
- Axe Kick
- Solar Blade
- Triple Axel
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- U-turn
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Solar Power
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
You ever just want to NUKE shit? Yeah, Adamant Banded Proto Tusk is just pure crack in the form of a button clicker, and with Chlorophyll you outspeed near everything. It is genuinely HILARIOUS how hard this thing hits. Protective Pads Lilli-H is also nuts, No Guard because you can still miss with Triple Axel with Compound Eyes (and might as well use Axe Kick at that point). Still not super sold on Solar Power Venusaur, was considering Chlorophyll Charizard but it's soooo weak to Heatran and suffers a bit from 4MSS, could prob drop Solar Beam on it for Scorching Sands though.
I think weather teams are huge matchup fishes tbh though, they are insanely weak to Primordial Sea/Desolate Land users like Heatran, Woger, Zapdos, Torn-T, Cinderace, etc. Fun? Oh most certainly, but very very inconsistent. Cheers to permaladder!
Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
This set is very fun to use, people slack on their Dragon resists and try to rely on raw bulk to check it.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shadow Shield Reuniclus: 140-165 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
You outdamage regen healing on 14/16 damage rolls, meaning next time they come in they take the full brunt of the draco meteor for an easy 2hko
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 189-223 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Smashes Goodra-Hisui for well over half
sorta matchup fishy, facing an Iron Crown/Scream Tail/Hatt feels pretty bad but people really love to slack on their dragon resists so this set applies enormous pressure
Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
I need to test if Hydreigon actually works but it seems to have potential, it is slower and slightly weaker but it has a superior defensive typing imo (dark resistant instead of weak) and stab dark pulse lets it threaten Reuniclus with greater ease, also good to spam into spdef corv to flinch them. Fireblast hits non-wbb corv for huge damage, flash cannon hits ScreamTail/Hatterene
I think Hydreigon has a better chance of being good with non-dragon's maw abiltiies cause it has a better secondary stab (honestly tempted to drop psyshock on latios for flip)
So in total:
Pros: Secondary dark stab is a solid click into bulky psychics and steels that would attempt to stave off Latios (Reuniclus, Crown, Heatran, Corv) while also hitting Scream/hatt for neutral
Fire blast lets you threaten non-wbb corv and flash cannon really discourages Scream/Hatt
Superior defensive typing by virtue of Dark resistance, Latios doesn't get much use out of Fighting resistance considering the dark weakness
Has nasty plot
Cons: Slower, weaker, walled by Primarina
Fighting weakness not fun to have
Maybe?
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Filler
- Nasty Plot
Focus blast is used over Earth Power since it also hits Ting Lu and threatens to OHKO Hoodra at +2
I personally really like the immediately threat of specs though
Q. Why Dragon's maw over Beads of Ruin?
Simple, damage.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 189-223 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dragon's maw offers a 12.5% boost to your dragon moves compared to beads of ruin which is super significant.
In this example, the damage difference between them on Hoodra is basically equivalent to an extra round of stealth rock chip (extra 6% or so) which is huge.
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
This set is very fun to use, people slack on their Dragon resists and try to rely on raw bulk to check it.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shadow Shield Reuniclus: 140-165 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
You outdamage regen healing on 14/16 damage rolls, meaning next time they come in they take the full brunt of the draco meteor for an easy 2hko
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 189-223 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Smashes Goodra-Hisui for well over half
sorta matchup fishy, facing an Iron Crown/Scream Tail/Hatt feels pretty bad but people really love to slack on their dragon resists so this set applies enormous pressure
Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
I need to test if Hydreigon actually works but it seems to have potential, it is slower and slightly weaker but it has a superior defensive typing imo (dark resistant instead of weak) and stab dark pulse lets it threaten Reuniclus with greater ease, also good to spam into spdef corv to flinch them. Fireblast hits non-wbb corv for huge damage, flash cannon hits ScreamTail/Hatterene
I think Hydreigon has a better chance of being good with non-dragon's maw abiltiies cause it has a better secondary stab (honestly tempted to drop psyshock on latios for flip)
So in total:
Pros: Secondary dark stab is a solid click into bulky psychics and steels that would attempt to stave off Latios (Reuniclus, Crown, Heatran, Corv) while also hitting Scream/hatt for neutral
Fire blast lets you threaten non-wbb corv and flash cannon really discourages Scream/Hatt
Superior defensive typing by virtue of Dark resistance, Latios doesn't get much use out of Fighting resistance considering the dark weakness
Has nasty plot
Cons: Slower, weaker, walled by Primarina
Fighting weakness not fun to have
Maybe?
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Filler
- Nasty Plot
Focus blast is used over Earth Power since it also hits Ting Lu and threatens to OHKO Hoodra at +2
I personally really like the immediately threat of specs though
Q. Why Dragon's maw over Beads of Ruin?
Simple, damage.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 189-223 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dragon's maw offers a 12.5% boost to your dragon moves compared to beads of ruin which is super significant.
In this example, the damage difference between them on Hoodra is basically equivalent to an extra round of stealth rock chip (extra 6% or so) which is huge.