Resource SV PU Viability Rankings

[Aurist]

Let's get more noms rolling woooo


RAIKOU
NEW -> A

Early nom, but regardless of how we feel on Raikou's broken status (probably not? but it also has so much set and Tera variation that unhealthiness is on the mind for me) I think Raikou is a top meta mon that you don't necessarily want on every team. It's fast enough to be faster than all but a couple of relevant mons, it has a lot of CM setup opportunities thanks to its 90/75/100 bulk, and it's somewhat shaping the meta with teams ensuring they have 2 checks to it, though those checks are good enough that they'd probably be on the team anyway. Tbolt/Scald/whatever Tera Blast is genuinely hard to check while Sub/CM and Protect/CM are available for (literally) Pressuring fat mons. It can also be a pivot (again, with CM) and has some potential with Specs. Time and this week's PUPL matchups will have a lot to say about Raikou but I think this is a safe nom overall.


COOPER
NEW -> A-

Another early nom but I think the picture is a lot clearer for Cooper aka Copperajah than it is for Raikou, with it being a solid hard hitting tank that slots well into our defensive lineup but is beaten by quite a lot of coverage moves or hard hitting neutral stuff. It has some set variety mainly in whether it packs Protect, Whirlwind, or a variety of coverage moves like Earthquake, Heat Crash, Rock Slide, Play Rough etc. It packs a pretty valid Assault Vest set too thanks to the aforementioned coverage options. Could be better than I'm giving it credit for here but I think A- is a comfortable slot for now.



KLAWF
UR -> B/B+

We been talking about this boi on the discord for a little while but it was still early days on discovering Klawf in this meta in the first round of noms. Klawf has emerged recently as a particularly consistent Knock Off absorber, especially vs our king Knock users Skuntank and Bombirdier. It is a good check to a lot of physical mons in addition to the aforementioned Skunk and Bird, like Arcanine, Ambipom, (scarf) Staraptor, Scyther, physical Zoroark, Minior, Grimmsnarl etc. as well as being a useful nuisance for a bunch of our psychic mons like Slowbro-Galar, Bronzong, scarf Hoopa. Klawf also eats many super effective physical hits allowing it to knock much of the tier and potentially switch to come back later or make a reasonable trade vs a strong mon.

Klawf makes good use of Regenerator being able to repeatedly come in on Knock and U-turns throughout a game and still remaining healthy enough to trade or win a 1v1 later. It has a good matchup spread vs all of our Defoggers making it solid on spikestack, though its matchup vs spinners leaves a little to be desired, only really having a winning matchup vs Coalossal of the spinners.

Klawf @ Rocky Helmet / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe OR 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe OR 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Swords Dance

Swords Dance is a slot to win the Curse Arcanine matchup and generally increase pressure vs bulky mons, the rest is standard Rocks/Knock/STAB. 8 speed creeps min Florges and itself, creeping other stuff takes more EVs which the other spreads do. The 44 Spe spread outspeeds Altaria and Mesprit, while the 96 Spe spread meets the 210 benchmark allowing it to hit Knocks on the likes of Golurk, Gligar, Milotic and Qwilfish-H. Ideally you want max to decrease your chance to get 2 shot on switch to random Close Combats, but nonetheless the speed helps your utility. Rocky Helmet is the common choice to make progress but some teams do want it to not take hazard damage so it can check stuff for longer.

I think Klawf is very worthy of at least a B slot, with a good enough matchup spread that I think could place it in B+.


DECIDUEYE
A -> A+

I think we've been far too conservative in our ranking of Decidueye and I'm not sure why. Decidueye has been the top used mon in PU in both ladder and tournaments for a while now, used among the most successful teams we've seen, present on Balance, BO and HO alike. It's a mon that acts as a midgame check to common stuff like Tauros-Aqua, a breaker and a lategame wincon simultaneously and often with the same set. It was about 1 changed vote off being A+ in the last round, and it's also literally only getting more useful in Raikou meta, which remains to be seen if it sticks around but still. I think we should finally display it as the definitive PU meta mon that it has been for the last 3 months.


HOOPA
B -> B+

Hoopa is on a come up in current PU as people realise Scarf Hoopa is fast enough to outspeed our top speed meta mons while hitting hard enough to pressure our fat mons, this being reflected in it finally making PU usage with a healthy 6.3% beating out the likes of Rotom-Heat, Rotom-Mow, Bombirdier and Goodra. I would say it's the 2nd best Trick user in the tier after Florges also. It's still a little lacking in tournament showings though it did help secure a nice W in pupl week one. I don't think its MUs are so good that it merits going any higher than high B, but it feels like a clear example of a high B mon to me.


SANDSLASH
B- -> B

I don't have a ton to say here but Sandslash just has more use than B- would convey, being a decent phys tank with spin/knock/hazards and a volt immune that has real use case when your team doesn't fit Coalossal/A-slash/Tatsu.


KILOWATTREL
A -> A-

Kilo has been getting increasingly unfavoured in this meta as Tbolt/Hurricane struggles to make dents into more robust teams. It's still a very valid option to improve your matchup vs offense but these days you need to do more than 1 thing in PU to be a top dog. Raikou's presence doesn't help it either as it has no real way to hurt it and loses to most of its coverage moves.


TORNADUS
B -> B-

Sorry this thing is dog. It needs to tera to do anything, it struggles to set up and doesn't even kill after it sets up most of the time. The main thing it has going for it is Tailwind is cute on HO.

A couple noms here I don't have much to say about but they haven't done anything notable in the tier in a while and I think merit a drop on being nonexistent until they're seen doing something.
Oricorio-Sensu B+ -> B
Exeggutor-Alola B- -> C
Jolteon C -> UR (RIP to this worse Raikou that doesn't check Raikou)

 

[tom holland]

Hey pu people! I have been learning the S/V meta since I came back from my long break and have felt hesitant to post any content on here until I felt knowledgeable enough. With that said, I have a good idea of this meta now so here is a nom that came up for me while I was building spikestack/noticed primeape is considered an unmon down here.

primeape: UR->C rank
Primeape @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Rage Fist
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

This is the only set as of right now I recommend running on primeape personally. Before u say passimian does the same thing, it rlly doesnt because the bulk/speed isnt comparable enough to hit these stats and hello rage fist. The speed hits 264 for hoopa and below, and the rest is dedicated to special bulk. Now I want to make it clear upfront, primeape only works in spikestack with a team built around it, but with this context it becomes as powerful as most A rank threats in the tier right now. This is why I think it is only C despite performing very well in testing, because ape is a tera hog and resource hog.

So how does this mon work? It carves a niche as a bulky stallbreaker that also strongly discourages hazard removal and acts as a spinblocker. This creates a lot of role compression because you now are automatically going to have a favorable matchup into slow teams, you have a spinblocker, you have a defog punisher, and as well as an alternative wincon. The cherry on top is that you get a special tank because this mon can take a surprising amount of power from specially offensive pokemon. This makes primeape a valid style for the spikestack archetype, but it does come with its many caveats.

If you are wanting to play primeape spikestack, you literally have to start the builder with primeape+a mon that supports primeape. In my case I use primeape+healing wish and build from there usually. Here is a brief checklist of what primeape needs to be successful:
1. Healing wish
2. Entry Hazards
3. Hazard removal
4. Other 5 mons don't want to be Tera reliant
5. Bulkier/fatter build
6. Knock off/trick absorber

This really strains the builder and makes primeape niche, which is why it doesn't go higher than C rank for me. If it was more self-reliant, I would feel differently.

Last major callout I have is people who don't believe in primeape, I strongly recommend trying it again and getting back to me because I feel like another pain point is how people play primeape in games. Primeape is meant for the long game usually, you want to weave it into weak attacks, sponge pivot moves, taunt sr mons and force your opponent to make predictable decisions when you bulk up. Lategame when you have a 250 BP rage Fist it's usually gg. This is why you want a fatter build with healing wish. Also, primeape is not meant to be the primary wincon most games, it's primarily there to keep hazards off the field by tera-ing early vs spinner teams, and this is just an alternative wincon to the primary objective of spikestack which is to wear down your opponent's with hazards for a lategame clean. They synergize well bc longer games favor spikestack, and longer games favor primeape, and wish/healing wish supports both of these.

replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2154524403-jmjw57z8apufdfumkp5w5dhg2kaxwstpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2154684129-r53leltuphcu0jlk8xafqebh436qtj7pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2154768583


https://pokepast.es/1405ea2d71b5c7cf
Here is a team to try with it if you don't feel like building!

 

[Theycallmephil]

New mons=New noms, inotherwords smth for me to yap abt

I think its best to start with the "elephant" in the room
NEW -> A+
Raikou has cemented itself as a solid pivot and more importantly amazing(albeit sometimes cheesy) sweeper. Obviously it's stats are very solid, with a passable 115 speed, solid special attack and a solid base 100 special defense, calm mind is the set up option of choice for raikou, most effectively paired with substitute(how original ) allowing this pkm to steal games and alongside Leftovers recovery, weasel out of possible checks to itself.

Now onto the actual Elephant

NEW -> A
Finally a good steel that's not neutral to fairy or named alolan-sandslash. Copperajah, affectionately dubbed "Cooper" by the community is far from flawless, but it's combination of traits take alot of stress off the builder, with access to knock off, whirlwind, genuinely solid attack and freedom to hold items such as assault vest, I personally have really enjoyed it, Coopers defensive stats are bad, base 69 in each but it's great HP can kinda make up to it, make no mistake this pkm isn't rlly a true wall.
Cooper also maintains a better defensive typing than the other meta steels, that being pure steel, while I wouldn't exactly recommend bringing it in on fighting attacks, it noteably isn't weak to dark or ghost unlike

More fun noms later!

 

[Bella]

Bellaposting again, time for a semi-long one potentially...

RISES:
A -> A+
Decidueye is one of the most commonly used and threatening Pokemon in PU, and its not hard to see why. Its extremely scary to face against when the opposing Dark-type such as Bombird and Wo-Chien are chipped or KOd, and can easily game up games. Add that onto its great defensive typing and the rise of new movesets and options such as Sucker Punch and Low Kick, being found on every playstyle from hazardstack to HO to standard balance, and I think the rise to A+ tier is more than justified.
speaking of bombird...

A -> A+
I used to be a hater of this thing, but over the past few months I've seen the light. Bombirdier is a Pokemon that no matter what will always get something done in a game, either by spreading Knock, disrupting the opposing team with Taunt, setting up Stealth Rock, pivoting, being a scary revenge killer and breaker, etc. The typing is crazy good, especially as it can hit the majority of the top threats bar like, Bellibolt relatively hard. Its easily the best Dark-type IMO, and should go up to show that.

A- -> A
I really really like Paldean Tauros-F right now, and although i don't think its better than wetbull, I think its agruably the second best fighting-type right now and is a better choice mon than wetbull and flamigo. Simply put: the STAB combo is pretty crazy. Although not having a STAB that hurts water-types sucks, I think the pure spammablity of Flare Blitz to chunk Pokemon like Duraludon, Galarbro, Scyther, Galarcuno etc is super super neat. i also feel like the willo immune is super nice, especially now with Pokemon like Altaria and Coalossal existing. Overall, solid mon and should go up the VR.

B -> B+ / A-(?)
I know we just rised this up last vote, but im serious here when I say that this Pokemon is actually the most underrated Pokemon in the tier. Obviously the Sucker weakness is so bad, but 150 SpA is nuclear especially with a shockenly good STAB combo once you remove Dark-types. Even then, Focus Blast chunks Pokemon like Zoro, Wo-Chien, and and Copper really badly and Trick is a great disrupter against common balance Pokemon like AV Galarbro Belli Bronzong Coal etc. Its a great cleaner and revenge killer and I think a rise is more than justifed.

B- -> B
There was a ladder team taking storm during the suspect run, but I kind of forgot who made it or who used it, but i do remember it had Snorlax. Basically, Snorlax is still super usable imo. Snorlax's Special Bulk is crazy good, and lets it win the 1v1 against a lot of Pokemon or use them as setup bait with curse, such as Florges, Intel, Scream Tail, and Goodra. Even with the mediocre defense stat, after a Curse it becomes extremely scary and hard to stop, especially with Body Slam Paras. Even Pokemon who could theoretically check it like Coal, Muds, etc, they either cant do much to it or are forced to take alot of chip which is not ideal. Its a solid Pokemon still and a small rise should reflect that.

C / C / C+ -> B- / B- / B
Im lumping all these three together less because they all act the same and more so because this is a VR rise for Grassy Terrain as a whole. Basically, seeing PUPL showings of Grassy Terrain has shown how dominating it is and how easy for Alcremie and Hitmonlee to steamroll through teams. Not much else to say here, tbh.

C -> C+
I ran Frosmoth a bit during me getting Intel Suspect reqs, and its honestly not that terrible. Teams have to build around it really carefully and I think it needs sub to be good, but using Pokemon like Florges, Belli, and Intel as Bait is really valuable. I personally like Tera Ground or Tera Ghost atm for it. Its pretty inconsistent, but it can easily steamroll unprepared teams so I think that alone makes it oki to move up at C+ tier.

DROPS:

A -> A-
The Bella take of the day is that Delphox is dropping really badly. my main issue with it is that the meta is just so unkind to it. With AV Galarbro, Florges, The vast amount of Dark-types, Deci, Inteleon, etc still existing, it cant really sweep as consistently as before. I would rather use other NP sweeprs like Galarbro and Zoroark honestly. I don't think its bad which is why i only placed it at A- but I think a stepdown needs to happen to it as well.

B+ -> B / B-
Minior is a ladder hero Pokemon that is not even used much on ladder anymore. It only fits on very specific hyper offense structures, and even then alot of the time the HO slot it wants as the Shell Smasher is oftentimes overtaken by more consistent setup physical sweepers like Arcanine, Wetbull, Zoro, etc. Also, once you realize it needs to go under 50% to get going with its ability, it can be pretty easy to play around and revenge kill. Just an inconsistent mess that needs a major step down from B+ tier and honestly the single most overrated Pokemon on the VR.

B+ -> B / B-
Emboar has issues with competition simply put. With Fighting types like the bulls, Flamigo, Scrafty, etc and Arcanine existing, its niche is hard to justify. It needs Scarf to be a decent revenge killer, but Reckless makes it easy to wear down without boots. It's pretty hard to fit and even then its a relatively underwhelming Pokemon, and needs a stepdown. (No i don't hate the fire-types in this tier)

B -> B-
Qwilfish is a Pokemon i like alot but has the same issue as Emboar imo; the competition is just really really stiff. As a Swords Dancer, i find it hard to fit over Wetbull and Zoro and as a spiker, Gligar and Gastro are generally more consistent. Its a fun Pokemon, especially with the classic SS Life Orb sweeper set, but its a pretty niche Pokemon overall.

C -> UR
Welcome back to Bella's classic "im lumping in a bunch of C tier Pokemon together because they suck ass!" segment! Ditto has the issue of it fitting in literally no team. I think we only placed it on the Vr as a hypothetical since in theory it can do something, but most of the time you are playing a 5v6 with Ditto on your team. Sneasel has the issue of competition obviously but also its another pokemon with little to no success as of late, especially as alot of the metagame makes it super hard to setup safely against, such as bulls, florges, belly, scrafty, skunk, milo, etc etc. Finally, my issue with Smeargle is still the same as before: as a HO lead, why would you ever run this over other options? Especially because it is by far the easiest lead to play around and spin or defog safely as well as 4MSS still existing for it....

So yeah. Thats pretty much it. I know theres an elephant in the room with my take on copper, and honestly all I got to say on it is that its perfectly fine and is like an A- Pokemon. I just did not write about it because i forgot it its a pretty straightforward Pokemon to understand.

 

[asa]

S -> A+
Bellibolt is obviously still very good and very annoying, but it feels like the meta isn't quite as favorable to it as it was a few months ago. Ground-types are better than ever, with Gastrodon and Mudsdale feeling like they're everywhere and Golurk being super punishing despite being less common. The continued excellence of Glowbro is another problem, since, when you also factor in how good Ground-types are, it means Toxic + Volt Switch is easier to play around and less immediately rewarding. Emerging special wallbreakers like Meloetta, Tatsugiri, and Hoopa are all even more bad news for it and mean you don't only have to use blobs to play around it. The main thing for me, though, is that Decidueye and Scrafty are arguably the premier physical threats right now, and neither are nearly as bothered by it as physical threats of the past like Choice Flamigo, Bulk Up Paldean Tauros, etc. Essentially, the electric Dorito frog is no longer quite as dominant and far easier to punish than ever before, making it unfit for S.

B+ -> A-
Always felt that Meloetta was a bit overhated, though before I could see having it in B+; no more of that. Even with Copperajah in the picture, Meloetta tends to always get something done versus balance, which even similar breakers like Inteleon can't always manage. The Ghost immunity is also pretty big right now, giving you insurance against Decidueye, Golurk, and Hoopa without needing to use or overrely on Bombirdier/Skuntank. Choice Scarf Florges popping up and giving other Choice Scarf users real competition is also nice for Meloetta, potentially going 1-1 with it rather than always being forced out. We've seen this thing get some nice wins recently in PU Open and PUPL, too, so clearly it's doing something right.

B+ -> A-
Another overhated Pokemon. I may end up less sure of this if Inteleon leaves, but the utility Tatsugiri provides is seriously huge right now. A non-passive Inteleon check..? That sits on defensive Waters and hits pretty hard..?? AND can spin??? The bulk is definitely not great, which can prevent it from doing everything it wants to in some games, but even getting to do some of the things it wants to is pretty good. Tatsugiri just feels like an easy add and nice supporting cast member on offensive and (some) balance teams that gives you a lot without requiring you to run two/three do-nothings.

New -> A
Could see an argument for A-, but A feels fair to me. AV Copperajah is pretty good at blanket checking popular special attackers, notably Florges, and really good at forcing progress with its strong ass attacks. It also does pretty okay versus our better walls despite not being a true wallbreaker. Defensive Stealth Rock sets are not as bad as people say, still making decent progress, pairing well with Spikers, and having Whirlwind to deny our many setup guys, though AV is like 90% of why it's good. Pretty easy-to-use and reliable Pokemon, only really held back by being easy to chip and how good Ground- and Fighting-types are.

~~~

Agree with:
A-> A+ (especially since garbage ass Golurk is there, too)
C -> C+ (annoying if you can get past it being a tera sink)
B+ -> A- (pretty good at most things, can see it)
UR -> C (yeah, why not)

A -> A- (just not super reliable, but still threatening)
A -> A- (the speed tier is still valuable, and so are the abilities, but man is it not reliable)
B+ -> B (but B- is too low)
A -> A- (B+ is too low, but just exploitable enough for A to feel like an oversell)

Disagree with:
A -> A+ (definitely a crutch mon sometimes and not as good as skunk)

B+ -> B/B- (B+ just feels fine for it)
B -> C/UR (can see B-, but C/UR are massively underselling how good being immune to priority + turning HO off is, and psyshock is broken rn)
A- -> A (still hard to justify on a fair amount of teams despite it being really good)
B -> B+ (i hate this mon)
C -> UR (made with raikou in mind tbf, but subcm is pretty good and not UR-worthy)
C -> UR (this is fine in C, UR is definitely too harsh)
C -> UR (fast af, broken buttons, immune to intimidate, always does something)
B -> B- (overhated, genuinely not bad on hyper offense/even some bulky offense)

 

[fish anemometer]

S -> A+
Despite being a slow pivot, bellibolt can be a bit too passive at times. Letting in mons that can set hazards, knock, or just kill everything. Still don't see how it's dorito shaped...
Florges has been kinda mandating a fairy resist, but teams packing one usually come out of the scuffle just fine. I never really feel its presence enough in a game to justify S rank. It sort of needs to sacrifice a decent bit of bulk for speed and teams are usually prepared to kill it pre and post tera. Copper is also a new check that can make a lot of progress if it comes in.

switch places
Decid's extra speed, priority and ability to wincon and really force teras that open to the rest of a team (as well as pivoting options!) go a long way, this thing is S rank maybe. Golurk kind of feels like a noob trap mon, surprisingly frail when it invests in speed which usually doesn't let it trade as much as it wants to. Knock is also the best move in the tier, and you're setting yourself up for a self goobing running knock+lurk as shadow punch is not a real move.

new->A-
AV is a great blanket check that makes a ton of progress, unfortunately it doesn't have the longevity of slowbro but knock off and powerful attacks make up for it a bit. The defensive set is a noob trap imo, and requires some serious justification to use, as it doesn't last long or do much damage, and is also a non ground type slow mon that doesn't check inteleon - so get ready to make some compromises on the team.

B+->A-
Co-signing a hundred times what asa wrote, she's so smart. i hate passive removal and tatsugiri gives me a ray of hope. Melo cripples teams so easily, def deserves a raise yes yes yes. Normal spam is still great and forcing a potential tera ghost means decid almost autowins.

A- -> B+
Ambipom has been noobing as of late. Just not enough output and so many risks involved with using it, that the frailty and 0 defensive utility outside countering decidueye HO isn't worth it.

B+ stay???
I was gonna vote/nom grimm to drop because good golly a dark with no knock is a fraud, but the twave/pshot/sucker/spirit set is evil so he can stay here. Use it in PUPL!

B-> stay/B+
galarcuno+honestly anything trivializes breaking fat teams. The typing is unfortunate in a tier with so much sucker, sneak and knock, but you can pivot around or just drop a future sight and get out of there. Torn breathes a sigh of relief with raikou gone, agree with what asa mentioned above.

B->B+
I was doubtful at first, but it is so easy to play and win with. Perhaps B+ is a bit much and this is just a knee jerk reaction to finding another non passive inteleon check, but from the games I've played with it, it's threatening as hell.

Agree with the rest of asa's post, besides hoopa being borderline C (its a fine breaker), and emboar being B+ (its a meh breaker).

 

[Bella]

Inteleon gone mixes up the VR ALOT, so here's some new noms and quick opinions on other nominations from asa and fish.

Rises:
A -> A+
Hear me out: Gastrodon needs a rise. Even without Inteleon, i personally find Gastro the most splashable Ground-type in the tier. It has alot of neat utility options like Storm Drain, Spikes, and Clear Smog that other grounds wish they had which alone would not make it go to A+, but theres one thing in particular i really really find good about it; it is the only real Specially Defensive Ground-type. This makes it a better check to stuff like Toxt, Rotom-H, and Salazzle that can potentially break through the other Grounds who can't really afford to run SpD. Also; lets not discredit the surprising amount of viable options on Gastrodon aside from Spikes and Clear Smog, from Ice Beam to Sludge Bomb to even more niche options like Memento. It one of the tiers most splashable Pokemon for balance teams, and a rise to A+ should justify that especially cause we have noobtrap Golurk there. Speaking of Golurk..

Should swap placements ( A+ / A -> A / A+ )
Not going to get in on Deci because I've talked about how high I am on the Pokemon in the past and its arguably my single most used Pokemon in the tier but it just has so many good options and forces so many lines and is THE most consistent win condition in the tier rn. Golurk on the other hand has kind of fallen a tad. I don't believe its bad, but it feels very prediction reliant at times and can hard to reliably fire off a polter, with Pokemon like Deci / Wo-Chien / Bombird / etc being everywhere atm. As such, I think a swap is more than justified.

A- -> A
I've been running this mon in the post Inteleon world, and it's pretty fun and a great cleaner. I really like Tera Ghost NP Encore atm, especially with 117 Speed tier that makes it super hard to reliably stop without a healthy scarfer. The STAB combo is pretty solid, there's not alot of reliable checks to Fire Blast + Sludge Wave aside from Gastrodon. It's a setup sweeper on the rise in my opinion and I think a small bump is justified.

B- -> B
For Bella's niche Pokemon to rise up of the day, it's HBrav time! Hbrav is uh... actually ok in some situations? Life Orb boosted Sheer Force STABs with an Agility and a Modest Nature is an extremely threatening wallbreaker, even 2HKOing the bulkiest of special walls like AV Galarbro and Gastro and even OHKOing relatively bulky attackers like Delphox, K9, and Glast. Now nonetheless the difficulty to get an agility off and Rocks weakness is bad, so I don't think anything higher than B should happen unless massive tech is discovered, but I feel like B- is a bit too low for a Pokemon like this.

Drops:
A+ -> A
Here's my hot take of the day: Arcanine has taken a fall off. Bulkier Waters like Milo and Gastro have been on the rise, and thats really bad for Arcanine trying to sweep consistently. Other super good K9 checks, like Coal, Altaria, and Gligar, have also seen rises in usage in both ladder and PL, which makes it life much much harder. Do i think K9 is bad? No, its still a very scary ekiller, but its just a less consistent of a sweeper now compared to other options like Deci and Bulls.

B+ -> B / B- tbh..
A lot of the same issues Arcanine has applies to Oricorio too; its checks are just much more common. From Skunk and Bombird to Belly and Coal, Ori really suffers to find safe places to come in and start to Quiver Dance its way to victory. The competition as a Special Sweeper is just really really tight rn and Oricorio is a very niche mon that only fits on very specialized structures for it and is not as splashable as a wincon as cm florges or scream tail or zoro or any other special sweeper is, so i think a drop is warrented.

B -> B-
Aiai atm is in this really weird spot where its original purpose as a pivot is not reallly needed but its role as a terrain sweeper is kind of achieved better by Lee and Sceptile. It's in a weird limboland and im not sure where to put it, but I think B- is the best place for it for being basically Hitmonlee / Sceptile but Poison and Encore. I personally think Band and HBD pivot sets are just generally better achieved by other Pokemon now.

So onto fish and asa posts, this will be quick cause its 4:30am at the time of writing and I kinda wrote too much and wanna sleep now lol:

Agree with:
B+ -> A- (Its pretty cool and very bulky for an attacker and the ghost immunity is extremely valuable rn, but 4MSS is kinda shitty sometimes.)

B+ -> A- (Even w/o Intel around anymore its still the best offensive form of hazard control in the tier and Dracos do alot more than you would think. Memento is also cute!)

Stays B+ (Twave Pshot sets kinda 6-0 HO and that is enough to justify it to be B+.)

A- -> B+ (Yea its noobtrappy now and HO has adapted to not be completely a disaster against it anymore, and also frail as fuck.)

B -> B+ (NP sets are crazy good, but it only fits on HO.)

Disagree with:
S -> A+ (This mon is still insane lol, and arguably the most splashable mon in the tier, plus always does something no matter the set and can do whatever you want it to do.)

New -> A (This mon is highkey a noob trap and I think A- is fine for it. Also, people need to realize that rocks sets are done like 50% better by Bronzong 85% of the time.)

Neutral On:
S -> A+ (I can see the agrument for both dropping it to A+ and keeping it in S. I thinkI personally lean towards dropping it down, but I would not mind it staying up either.)

B -> B+ (Its a neat breaker with Future Sight but I think the defensive typing rly holds it back alot.)

B -> B+ (idk how to feel on this mon tbh its like the most its good but not good good pokemon in the tier lol)

 

[ShuckleDeath]

I disagree with k9 drop just the role compression alone makes it one of the best mons in the tier imo.

 

[asa]

Hello, my name is asa. This is my post. I nom the mons.

NEW -> A/A-
May be too early to tell, but I think Venusaur is really good. Defensive sets sit on Wauros and defensive Waters/Grounds while also having Knock Off and Leech Seed to punish Steels, and offensive sets are genuinely hard to wall without Bronzong or something a bit more specific like Goodra or Articuno. Sun sweeper sets (whether on full sun or not) are also threatening and have even fewer switch-ins. Being both a Grass and a Poison seriously blows when you're in the same tier as Glowbro, Skuntank, Decidueye, etc., which is why I'm admittedly hesitant to rank it in A, but Venusaur really does offer a lot if you can get past that and other flaws like it not resisting Earthquake. No matter what Venusaur is doing, the bulk, typing, and access to multiple forms of recovery all make it a huge nuisance and pretty reliable when it comes to chipping/breaking.

A -> A+
This would definitely be at the tail end of A+, but I think Mudsdale is excellent at pretty much everything it does and fits on most non-HO teams with ease. Mudsdale just solves the most amount of problems in the least amount of work and benefits from trends like Wo-Chien and Altaria continuing to die down, Coalossal and AV Copper spam, Scrafty's excellence, physical attackers in general just thriving, etc. Even Decidueye emerging as PU's final boss and defensive Waters remaining annoying don't hamper its reliability and consistency all that much, since it's not 100% helpless against them like other defensive Grounds can be. Mudsdale is the secret reason why teams can't easily skip out on a resist/immunity to Ground (Golurk sucks), and it's always one of the best Pokemon you can have on your side in any given battle.

A -> A-/B+
Either A- or B+ works for me, but Scream Tail is definitely not A anymore. Wish sets feel awful to use and drain so much momentum in comparison to Florges, while Calm Mind sets are less effective due to continued AV Glowbro, Copperajah, and Coalossal spam, Hoopa still rising in the ranks, and it practically needing to Tera to avoid the inevitable Decidueye revenge kill. Scream Tail can definitely tech on random moves to deal with a lot of these, and I've tried a few different options there, but its consistency as a threat is much lower now.

B+ -> A-
Duraludon is really handy right now, tank sets are trading machines that aren't truly walled by much besides Bronzong and benefit from specially defensive Gastrodon dying down some. Not being deathly afraid Florges is also obviously huge when you compare it to Tatsugiri, the primary Dragon right now. Choice sets are okay too, nice combo of speed and strength while still having decent bulk, but offensive Eviolite sets have been more common and don't fear Copperajah as much as other Dragons/Steels. Copperajah offering competition as a tanky Steel-type is one of the only things holding Duraludon back, but I think a small promotion to A- seems fair.

B- -> B
Qwilfish-H deserves to be ranked the same as its Johtoian counterpart and is honestly probably better than it right now. Skuntank typing alone lets you wall Decidueye and Glowbro (along with sitting on opposing Skunk), but then you add on Intimidate, Spikes, and Barb Barrage, all of which are seriously massive. Plus, you're bulky enough with SpDef investment + Eviolite to take on threats like Florges, Meloetta, and Venusaur better than Skuntank (and other Dark-types) can. Hwilfish flops a bit versus physical setup sweepers and isn't a good Fighting check even with Intimidate, but its other traits are on par with Qwilfish's to where them sharing a rank makes sense.

~~~

Agree with:
A- -> A
staying B+ (could even honestly go up to A-)
B -> B+ (i was hating before)
B- -> B (though I think roost + 3 attacks is probably better than agility most times)

A+ -> A
A- -> B+
B -> B-

Disagree with:
A -> A+ (probably the best mon in A, but idk not feeling it in A+)
B -> B+ (not a believer in this yet, could change)

~~~

I nommed the mons. This is the end. I love you.

 

[ishtar]

There’s too much discussion on things here so I’ll just try to mention some guys that seem slightly underappreciated right now.

to B: Solid blanket special check into a lot of annoying guys and bulky waters. Reliably owning CM Slowbro-G, Gastrodon, Milo, Tatsu, Florges and its actually quite formidable vs. a lot of other stuff post-tera. Just a solid pivot into a lot.

B+ to A-: This mon is only held back by the fact that it’s somewhat of a pain to build with, but is otherwise one of the scariest setup breakers in the tier, since it’s able to dismantle a lot of usual phys def and fighting checks. I admit I’m not fully convinced by this nom at a 100%, and my vote this weekend might reflect a change of opinion, but this mon should definitely be on people’s radars more.

B to B+: Dudun has seen some success as a scary setup sweeper with CM through this tournament and in Slam, able to readily beat Spdef oriented mons such as Slash and Copper.

A- to B+: I think that this mon is too awkward to fit into things and competes with too many good fighting types. It gets some godly matchups sometimes but idt its that much better than something like Heracross or Yama which r both in B+ right now, even if its speed tier is quite nice compared to them.

B+ to A-: This mon is just good and I think its been fairly successful lately? I feel like its never dead weight and feels way better and more consistent than the B+ guys imo.

A to A-: Aurist made this nom a while back but it was in a different meta so Im throwing it in here for the current one. Kilo prob only even deserved A during Intel meta and even then, it was very inconsistent and arguably should’ve been A- from the start.

A to A+: Lastly, I wanted to mention this nom even though Bella already made it cuz I feel like my reasoning for Gastro rise is different to hers. I just think Sticky Hold sets are really strong and turn Gastro from a do nothing blob into an actual formidable annoyance that s able to trade with some things or stick around longer due to its item choices. Rocky Helmet and Clear Amulet have been the two options I’ve seen used here to great success, and I think they warrant Gastro with lovely extra utility.

I like these noms

Florges: S to A+
S to A+
A+ to A
A to A+
A+ to A
B to B+
A- to A
B+ to A-
B+ to A-
A to A-
B+ to A-
B to A-

 

[Bella]

MY NAME IS BELLA. I TALK POKEMON. PLEASE LISTEN TO ME TALK ABOUT POKEMON I LIKE AND DISLIKE.

Rises!

New -> A
Venu as a whole has honestly impressed me a lot. I think the best set is seeming to be LO 3A, As the STAB combo is surpisingly powerful with Earth Power since it allows it to pick off stuff like Florges, Deci, and Milo pretty easily and can be pretty hard to break down without an extremely healthy Galarbro or Goodra or something. Leech Seed bullshit sets are also pretty solid as sitting on Wetbull, Florges, Pawmot etc is pretty strong and if running sub theres quite a few good opportunities to get a sub down on stuff like Bellibolt Gastrodon Scrafty etc. Really solid Pokemon with a few flaws (such as the defensive typing being unfavorable at times and the 80 speed is kinda meh) so i think an A tier placement is fair.

B+ -> A-
Im stealing a page out of Innanas book here and wanna expand on why I think Rotom-M is super nice atm outside of it just seeing good success. I just think that Rotom-M's great combination of traits is helping it out to become a pretty stellar revenge killer. Its STAB is not terrible, obvs stuff like Venu and Altaria / Goodra exists but hitting the Ground-types is such a massive trait literally no other Electric Type in the tier that isn't bad can do reliably. Moreover, its Speed control is pretty strong! 105 SpA + Good Speed w Scarf makes it great to pick off stuff like BU non TB bulls Scyther Delphox etc. and thanks to Volt Switch its a great offensive pivot while also being a solid cleaner and special attacker to. Finally, Trick is trick and makes its few reliable switchins think twice before trying to switch in so they don't rest getting crippled.

C+ -> B-
For Bella's shitty mon to give a rise of the day, Toxicroak is honestly pretty cool? SD sets are the only thing worthwhile going for imo, but they are surprisingly not that shitty! Dry Skin and the STAB combination is honestly pretty solid and lets it get free turns to pivot into stuff like Milo, Wetbull, and Qwilfish and use them to be bait, while also taking on threats like Florges Scream Tail Venu etc thanks to the pretty high power stab attacks. I do think it suffers from pretty shitty 4MSS, since it wants Sucker and Knock at the same time, and alot of the ground types kinda fuck it over, but its for sure better than C+ imo.

Drops:

S -> A+
Admittedly i put Florges at S before Venu dropped but even over time I think its time to admit Florges has taken a fall. Its still very good and still forces every team to run a Fairy Resist or just die, but its not nearly as mandatory and slappable on teams as before w stuff like Venu, Salaz, Melo, etc taking a rise its pretty difficult to justify in S anymore.

B -> B-
I'm honestly not sure how to run this thing. It feels completely lost in the metagame and suffers from way to much competition to slot onto teams a lot, with Alolan Decidueye, Bulls, Migo, Scrafty, etc all existing and taking its placement on alot of teams as their grass / fighting type. Major 4MSS and an honestly pretty mediocre defensive typing does not work well for it either. Scrappy is a cute ability, but offensive sets seem pretty mediocre and are done by alola better and defensive sets seem a bit too niche. I think a drop is warrented.

C -> UR PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE UR
I've talked a bit about my dislikement of this thing in the past and I think its worthwhile to continue it here. Ditto is honestly the only Pokemon on the VR i have 0 idea how or why its still on it and I have never seen a compelling agrument to keep it on VR or justification to run it. From my (limited) usage and attempts on making it work, I think it fits best on fat cores, but even then you are better off running any other reasonable cleaner like firebull or something like that. It's a Pokemon who in theory can do some cute things (like it can pick off a SD deci! Thats kinda neat i guess.) but in practice does not thanks to wasting a teamslot for any other Pokemon.

Other nominations I agree with:
This will be shorter reasoning as im kinda eepy

A -> A- (B+ is too low, still a pretty strong setup sweeper esp on HO but needs more support to get going now imo.)

B+ -> A- (Tank sets are cute, Choice Scarf is a funny cleaner and surprise mon)

B- -> B (Good Pokemon w great Utility but kinda hard to justify a slot sometimes and does not resist fighting which is awk)

B+ -> A- (BU sets can be super bullshit but it is pretty hard to fit and the team needs to be built around it.)

A -> A- (Still decent speed control but theres alot more competition + only doing 30% to everything ever can be kinda fucking dumb)

A -? A+ (fatfuck)

Nominations I disagree with:

A -> A+ (Just a bit too high imo, great Pokemon but has shortcoming esp w not being able to take on the single best setup sweeper in the tier and also kinda wants both Heavy Slam and Body Press but cant fit both)

A- -> B+ (Don't find it awkward at all actually at least compared to trying to fit hdeci hari and toxicroak, and 105 Speed is still really nice combined with a stupid good movepool.)

Idk how to feel about these nominations:

UR i think? -> B (Also a fatfuck with cute tools but It seems like a major terahog, note I have barely ran it though.)

B -> B+ (Also a Pokemon I have not ran a lot but it seems solid enough w CM sets albeit seems hard to fit on teams.)

THANK YOU FOR READING MY NOMINATIONS.

 

[Aurist]

Forgot to post this earlier, but nominations are being voted on by the VR council, and changes should be with you by the end of the week!

Further discussion is still welcome while we wait for the result, and any further nominations will be considered on the next slate.

 

[Aurist]

The updates for the SV PU Viability Rankings are in! The link to the voting is here. As a note, in addition to nominations made in this thread, our benevolent overlord Tier Leaders requested we re-evaluated all of our C tiers, so they were also included in voting if they were not already.

Now onto the changes:

NEW

Copperajah NEW -> A-
Venusaur NEW -> A-
Ninetales NEW -> C

Rises

Decidueye A -> S
Mudsdale A -> A+
Gastrodon A -> A+
Tauros-Paldea-Blaze A- -> A
Salazzle A- -> A

Meloetta B+ -> A
Duraludon B+ -> A-
Hariyama B+ -> A-
Heracross B+ -> A-
Rotom-Mow B+ -> A-
Tatsugiri B+ -> A-
Hoopa B -> A-
Dudunsparce B -> B+
Braviary-Hisui B- -> B
Qwilfish-Hisui B- -> B
Sandslash B- -> B
Snorlax B- -> B

Hitmonlee C+ -> B-
Toxicroak C+ -> B-
Vikavolt C+ -> B-
Frosmoth C -> C+
Jolteon C -> C+
Thwackey C -> C+

Articuno UR -> B-
Klawf UR -> C
Primeape UR -> C

Drops

Bellibolt S -> A+
Florges S -> A+

Arcanine A+ -> A
Golurk A+ -> A
Delphox A -> A-
Goodra A -> A-
Scream Tail A -> A-
Wo-Chien A -> A-
Kilowattrel A -> B+

Emboar B+ -> B
Minior B+ -> B-
Oricorio-Sensu B+ -> B-
Decidueye-Hisui B-> B-
Farigiraf B -> B-
Grafaiai B -> B-
Exeggutor-Alola B- -> C+
Mesprit B- -> C+

Indeedee-F C+ -> C
Magneton C -> UR
Muk C -> UR
Poliwrath C -> UR
Porygon2 C -> UR

Thank you to Meri Berry who has been very helpful with sorting the sheet

 

[Aurist]

Hello, I was just going through updating the visual VR and I had some opinions so I wanted to make some noms.

Venusaur A- -> A+

We were crazy conservative when we ranked this thing at A-, this mon has 8 billion sets all of which have strong use case and high performance. Both offensive and defensive sets are extremely versatile to the point of being borderline broken, offensive sets are potent and have only a couple checks that also flex depending on your coverage (e.g. Bronzong checks many Venus but Sun sets and physically biased Knock sets blast it), defensive sets bring some important utility including being an uncommon hard answer to Tauros-Aqua and having access to important progress moves in Knock Off and Toxic as well as great coverage for it if needed. Venu's primary weakness is omega 4mss but frankly the opponent is doing a bunch of guesswork to figure what mon on their team checks it anyway so even that's not too much of a weakness. Venu is easily top 5 mons in the tier right now and I don't think that's controversial.

Duraludon A- -> A

Duraludon simply feels more favoured right now, as its set variety (SR 3a, SR twave, Specs, Scarf, etc) has really started to be explored fully and it has a lack of solid long term switch ins for its offensive sets, as well as utility sets becoming more efficient with people using Steel Beam as a semi-spinblock move. This mon hits hard, trades well and offers good compression, it's very nice for teambuilding right now especially.

Bronzong A- -> A

A mon that checks the above 2 mons I nominated to rise, I think Bronzong has easily emerged as the top Steel in the tier despite having issues vs common mons like Decidueye and Skuntank, because it hard answers enough important to check stuff like Venusaur, Florges, Meloetta, etc that it becomes really vital for a lot of teams to have backbone. The mon is also flexible enough to adjust somewhat what it checks, for example packing Earthquake to shore up a team's Toxtricity weakness or at least force it to Tera and take Heavy Slam harder. Good Sdef wall, good rocker as it solidly answers a few of the spinners, its main criticism is needing more longevity than it has for a lot of games but its effectiveness remains high despite that.

Articuno-Galar B -> B+

Sorely underrated mon, even if you don't think it's amazing mid B just doesn't represent this mon. Future Sight + any reasonably fast fighting type is ridiculously hard to wall in this tier and Guno generally works well as a pivot. I wouldn't nominate it higher than B+ because even though it functions well on spikes stacking teams it's not easy to get rock solid structures using Guno and you usually give up some defensive space in order to get the offensive pressure that Guno builds for a team. Nonetheless a strong mon and better than the current rank easily.

Cramorant UR -> B/B-

Cramorant has seen a resurgence recently thanks to a fairly popular kyuss team in PUPL. While the team just barely didn't win in the week, the game and the subsequent adoption of the team by ladder players did some work at demonstrating Cramorant's ability to make a surprising amount of progress and act as a functional defogger which is a relatively rare role in PU. Cramorant takes advantage of the tier being quite slow to threaten large amounts of chip and potential para on common team structures. Definitely a viable mon imo.

Staraptor A -> A-

While a good scarfer with a nice speed tier and strong breaking power, I tend to find this mon is usually less good in practise than it is on paper. Flamigo is usually easier to fit on teams and can come in more often in the mid game due to being neutral to Rocks and having more spammable STABs. Staraptor is still nice, especially for teams whos fastest mon is scarf Flamigo, though also comes up on annoying coinflip situations with teams whos fastest mon is also a scarf 100 ie the 2 bulls and other raptors. I think this mon simply doesn't have the impact or use case of a mid A tier but is still a strong option that should remain within the A tier in A-.

Lycanroc, Froslass, Avalugg-Hisui B -> B-

Triple nomination here with the same ideas in mind - HO as a playstyle has been sinking and sinking, these 3 are dedicated HO leads as their primary sets and noone is currently using their alternative sets. There's space for them to rise again but they're really not taking that space right now.

Ninetales C -> UR

This mon frankly made it onto the VR list because of an inefficiency in the formula for calculating the VR council's votes. Only 4 council members actually voted for this mon to be ranked at all, but averages in the ranks led it to be just barely ranked. This is a joke mon with absolutely no use case, the weird Kee Berry set that a couple people used for about 2 days is in the rear view mirror, get this thing out of the VR.

 

[asa]

A- -> A/A+
Big agree, people really should use this more. Offensive Venusaur trucks through most teams with some support, defensive Venusaur sits there real good and pisses everything off, and Venusaur as a whole is just solid and reliable with few bad matchups. Fine with either a small increase to A or a big increase to A+, whichever others feel more considering its relatively low usage and pretty awkward synergy with other top tiers, but I personally do put this in A+.

A- -> A
Agree here too, always does something and still benefits from low-ish Bronzong usage, Decidueye spam, and CoalGastro being used to sponge a lot of hits. Choice sets are fine, maybe a bit underrated, but most Duraludon sets are good and have broken buttons. Not a ton to say that hasn't been said already, A reflects Duraludon's usefulness and reliability better than A-.

A -> A-
Even with Coalossal and Duraludon trending up and more U-turn Decidueye, I think Staraptor is fine in A. Less Bellibolt/Houndstone and more Grass-types to punish are good for it, heavier reliance on physdef Gastrodon is good for it, and offensive Ghost-types becoming more prevalent is good for it. Powerful speed control is always valuable, and even Choice Band Staraptor offers that with teams noticeably slowing down, which is to say nothing about Choice Scarf sets. Staraptor is flawed but never deadweight, and it honestly feels easier to justify now than before.

I mostly agree with the other above nominations (though Galarcuno is a bit of a flop and Lycanroc has more value than the other suicide leads bc it can viably do offensive sets too), just don't have anything interesting to say about them. So..

B+ (could even see B)
Brutus is fine, and that's about it. The defensive utility it offers is massive, and doing so without being totally passive is always good in a tier like this one. Its bulk is also solid, making it totally capable of trading with foes and coming out on top thanks to Sucker Punch. It also has more tricks up its sleeve than people give credit with options like Thief, Stun Spore, Substitute, etc, and of course it opens sun up more alongside Venusaur. That said, Brute Bonnet is absolutely the least viable good Dark-type in a tier with lots of good Dark-types. Lacking Knock Off is also pretty bad with Bombirdier, Gligar, Bellibolt, etc around to soak your hits and limit your progress, and it doesn't have a good setup option like Grimmsnarl does to make up for it. BB has other shortcomings like 4x U-turn weakness (which is lame considering it otherwise does wall Decidueye) and weak-ish STAB moves, all of which make it pretty specific compared to the all-purpose Skuntank and Bombirdier or the slightly more specific Scrafty and Grimmsnarl. Still, I don't think Bonnet is all bad, and ranking it any lower than B feels like underselling its genuinely good traits.

A- -> A
Teams commonly skip Pokemon naturally faster than 339, which is critically faster than Paldean Tauros, and I think that's big for Pawmot. It really likes there being more Gastrodon instead of Bellibolt/Houndstone and has the coverage to deal with Gligar, Venusaur, and Altaria, too. Scaring fat Waters and Decidueye out is also nice, those are huge roadblocks for Wetbull in particular. Natural Cure also means you don't lose your breaker and revenge killer for trying to deal with Coalossal or punish Milotic, and you don't need to run Rest to take advantage of this, which lets you afford extra coverage. Pawmot is pretty linear compared to other Fighting-types/physical guys, but it deserves a small boost for doing pretty well against most teams atm.

A- -> A/A+
Very, very strong and an easy add to a lot of teams right now. People are experimenting more with Meloetta lately with bulky utility sets, SubCM, etc, which I think indicates that its future is very bright, but even the standard Choice sets are just really good and better than A- suggests. Meloetta is an easy choice for wallbreaking and speed control, and it rarely disappoints when it comes to either role. Not much else to say, it's consistently one of the most dangerous Pokemon to encounter and only slowed down by Bronzong/Coal/Copper, which are very chip prone and lose to Shadow Ball/Focus Blast.

A- -> B+
This was a topic of conversation in the Discord last week or so, but yeah Houndstone just isn't as hot as it used to be. Decidueye taking over the tier alone is a huge problem, but the most common spinners in Coalossal and Tatsugiri aren't nearly as troubled by its presence as the Sandslash formes were before either. Dark-types are also still great, on just about every team, and can deny Houndstone in multiple ways. "Houndstack" is still annoying to deal with, even being used to success recently in PU Open and PUPL, but it doesn't own like it used to + it's difficult to justify something as passive as defensive Houndstone anywhere else. Offensive sets have merit, but mostly on HO, which is also struggling right now.

A- -> B+
Tbh I've never liked this Pokemon much, very one-dimensional and only fits well on certain teams. The Speed is still useful, especially now that it's likely the fastest mon in any given game, but the threat of its moves is less severe with HO struggling and more Duraludon and Rocky Helmet Gastrodon/Skuntank. Being able to click Knock against Coalossal is obviously huge, but Flame Body is worse for Ambipom than Static and forces it to walk on eggshells to even help make progress. Only want to bump this down a little because it has merit on hazard stacking builds and is an actually decent Normal-type, but A- is overselling it imo.

 

[Aurist]

Just completed a visual overhaul of the Viability Rankings, thanks to the new much better table functions on the updated forum. Your mouse scroll wheels should thank you for it.

EDIT: there are some display issues that make the cells a little wonkier on smaller screens ie mobile. I hope it's an improvement anyway, but I will work on a solution to that soon.

Additionally, thank you to sinnabyss who has created some fantastic art for the PU VR!

 

[Bella]

Another Bella VR post (the sixth)
Rises:

A- -> A+
I'm not going to get to into this as both asa and aurist have went into this mon a lot already, but tldr its really really good. It's a solid and very easy mon to place on teams, and has such a massive range of set variety and move variety it needs to take a serious jump to A+ imo. I would be ok with A but I think I will be voting A+ on this thing.


A -> A+
This is an extreme hot take on my end, but Migo is uh, pretty good actually. It's easily the tiers most consistent scarfer, and also has an extremely spammable STAB move thanks to Scrappy in Close Combat. added onto the fact that Pokemon like Bonnet, Venu, Decid, Dura, etc all on the rise who migo can directly threaten and the continued fall of some of its better checks like Bellibolt and Hounds, and I think a rise up to A+ is justifiable.


New -> B
This is certainly a Pokemon that exists. Decent bulk and great options like sucker / synth / cc / taunt / sub / whatever + honestly a fun band mon, but my god it wishes it had Spore in this tier and it's defensive typing is awful, U-turn is everywhere in the tier and that doesnt exclude stuff like Skunk / Bulls / K9 / Bombird / Venu / etc who just threaten you out with their STABs. Add onto its very hard competition with the other Dark and Grass-types like Skunk, Bombird, Zoro, Venu, and Scarfty, it ends up being an ok mon but it feels pretty meh overall, so I think a B tier placement is justifiable.

C+ -> B-
One more for right now, and its another "Bella talks about a shitmon she likes!" post. Back when Inteleon was in the tier this mon was a pretty funny bait mon. Obviously with the drop of Florges and Bellibolt who were agruably its too biggest Sub fishes to QD and sweep it has to take a hit, but It's ability to still be a solid, potentially lethal sweeper with things it baits subs on such as Venu, Rotom-C, Melo, and others still being around is nice, although it is MUCH more reliant on tera ground / ghost to get stuff done. Nevertheless, Idt its as bad as C+ and deserves a bump up.

DROPS:
A+ -> A
This pains me a lot, but Bellibolt is still taking a drop. It feels really really bad at times to run on many teams, and is no longer an obvious add to balance as it was in the past. It also does not help that the meta has been really unfavorable for it lately, with all the Ground-types all getting better, things like Staraptor, Ambipom, and Scrafty who it normally does very well against not being as common anymore, and an increase in common Toxic counters like Dura / Venu / Bronzong / etc. It's still a solid wall on the right team, but its no longer one of the best mons in the tier.

B -> B- B -> B-
Lumping these two together because both feel really hard to run with all the other Ground-types atm. They have cool perks (Sanda has Glare and Sandslash has Spin and Knock) but that does not excuse the fact that generally stuff like Gligar / Muds / Gastro / etc all find themselves easier to slot on teams, have better perks (Gligar has pivot, Muds Roar, and Gastro does everything p much lmao) and are more consistent as Ground-types overall. Still good Pokemon, just the competition is stiff.

C -> UR
Deeply unserious mon with no niche whatsoever. Literally run Delphox or Rotom-H if you want a fire-type special sweeper. Ig encore is cool but not enough to keep it up.

Anyways, heres noms i agree with and disagree with. This will be quick since im hungry lol.

Agree with:
A- -> A+ (Insane mon and we ranked it too low.)

A- -> A (Im high on Choice Scarf which is why im ranking it to A but i still prefer copper and zong as defensive steels.)

A- -> A (I have always been upselling this Pokemon and imo its still the best steel in the tier)

UR -> B- (B is too high and i can see an agrument for C+, but its a funny and annoying, but niche defogger and status spreader.)

A -> A- (Less consistent than Migo and suffers hard from the rocks weakness and stuff like Bronzong and Muds still being insane. Fucking over deci completely is cool tho.)

B -> B- (As the resident always bringing HO girl, yeah it's taken a bad drop since the balance structures are just becoming better and stronger. a drop is justified.)

A- -> A+ (Actually ridiculous Pokemon. Has the best defensive traits for an offensive Pokemon and has like 18 viable moves. a rise up to A+ is good and justified.)

A- -> B+ (Hard to fit and awkward with all the Darks and Deci existing atm. Still a fatfuck on the right bulky balance structures though.)

A- -> B+ (The noobtrap of all time.)

Disagree with:

B -> B+ (Its a solid threat with Fsight and having recovery and uturn is good. but its a hard mon to fit on teams, pretty much only fits on spikestack, and the Dark-types are still everywhere for it. B+ is just a bit too high)

A- -> A (Speed tier is good and Electric-Fighting is a nice stab combo, just does not feel A to me. I dunno, just feels a bit more specialized than the other Fighting-types.)

 

[gulch]

hi vr folks it's time for late night with gulch


B- > B
fat fuck with a lot of really good tools on it. i've been pretty high on this mon ever since the back end of PUPL and i don't see that changing any time soon really, freeze-dry is a super obnoxious click into 99% of the tier, roar lets you not be insanely passive into everything, u-turn allows you to have actual momentum on your defensive tool, roost is reliable recovery... pretty much complete reliance on boots to not get evaporated any time you switch in definitely sucks and does make me feel like B is probably the upper cap for this mon's VR placement just because of how crippling knock is for it. you also do have a lot of things that you do fuck all into, and while you can pivot out on them there's still usually at least one reliable cuno switch on any given team. still, very good mon, ground immune that can do things back to grounds is sick, very neat tool for balance and overall just does really well in a lot of situations.


A > A+
actually insane progress maker, there are about two to four reliable switchins to this and one of them is your own meloetta. crazy stuff! very adaptable in terms of item and moveset as well, you can pick and choose your checks a lot of the time and the variance lets this mon find its way onto a lot of teams. ghost immunity is also super good in a meta ruled by decidueye, as well as being able to go one on one with lots of other broken shit (notably venusaur). i can not overstate how annoying it is to have two thirds of your team take like 60% from hyper voice and that's just the reality of loading into this mon a majority of the time.


C > C+
broken ass buttons, immune to intimidate, fast as shit, punks decidueye. i do think that this mon is kinda limited to hazard stack, but that general style of team has been performing very well as of late and this mon enables it big time. very strong knock bot that nothing really particularly enjoys coming in on, STAB priority, low kick to hit things like copperajah, and a speed stat that lets you take advantage of people who slack on keeping around real speed control that consists of more than a base 105. swords dance also lets you become a genuine threat outside of smacking people's shoes off, +2 ice shard hurts like a bitch and can very convincingly pick off a good few things, especially if they're getting chipped every time they come in. good mon, people should experiment with it more.


A- > A+
i have nothing much to say here except echoing the sentiment of several others that this was ranked too low to begin with. offensive sets have coverage for everything not named bronzong, and even zong isn't safe from weather ball sets if you run into a sun team. defensive variants are also super duper fuckass annoying and just sit there and knock and recover like 25% off of everything. it's just wo-chien that's immune to toxic. the only thing keeping me from genuinely considering S for this is that it's just behind Decidueye in terms of grass-types that make ridiculous amounts of progress. perhaps in the future....


A- > A
the speed tier is good at taking advantage of meta trends and it hits like a fucking truck. choiced sets need to get their callouts right but when they do the potential is pretty much infinite, you get a lot of moves to take advantage of with this too (and even some pivoting with volt switch). most of our electric immunes don't take kindly to ice punch, knock off, or both, and tera electric double shock is very effective at closing out games. you can even run iron fist mach punch if that's your speed, although i tend to like the other options better. still, good mon!


A- > B+
total burger flipper, meta trends have not been kind to it as of late and they only seem to be getting nastier. every other spinner is better at your job than you, storm drain on a frail mon has become sufficiently less useful since inteleon ban, and without nasty plot you just quite honestly don't do enough damage to the things you're intending to hurt, not to mention also being worried about actually outspeeding them without a rapid spin boost. tatsu at the moment feels like a mon that needs everything to go right and oftentimes it just doesn't. the only time i've really enjoyed using this as of late is with memento as a spinner on HO teams, and even that's a stretch.


A+ > A
this dude just sucks ass to build with right now unfortunately, he's a great wincon but kinda slow and awkward and doesn't come with the insanely more clickable buttons that the bulls do. knock's great and being able to effectively fight decid is an awesome quality, but there are a lot of niches that become infinitely harder to occupy once brotherman shows up to the party. your wincon lacking any real speed leads to some VERY strange choices in the builder and often means you're compensating much harder for your normal check since all of those are also typically very slow, and you don't have the immediate threat potential to fit on HO unless you're running the dogass 252/252 set. venusaur showing up and bronzong becoming more popular also means you're starting to feel that lack of immediate power a lot more and the coverage choice is a real choice now. it's still super effective in its role but has become increasingly difficult to justify in the builder and for that reason i think A is a bit more fitting for it.


C > UR
lol what is he doing here?? no drought = no viability, try again next year bud

AGREE:
A- > A - venusaur is broke, bronzong is check, baba is you

UR > B- - i can see the argument for C+ or B-, agree that B is a little much (but if snorlax is up there we can dream), this thing is a roach mon and will never ever die

B > B+ - fightsight good and can be a really funny way to sus out zoro, also just strong with the amount of broken ass fightings we have

NEW > B/B+ - yeah seems about right

A > A- - getting easier and easier to punish and people running normal checks often means that you're kinda boned if you ever wanna click double edge

A- > B+ - meta has just been getting increasingly less kind to him, idk what to say

A- > B+ - ibid, less HO means this fella's role as the best HO check isn't enough to make a resume out of anymore

 

[Heatranator]

So, I just recently got to top 500 on ladder by spamming HO, so I'd thought I'd give some noms on mons I think are great.

C -> C+/B-
Sneasel is so god damn dangerous, and I would say it carried me a lot in my battles. The only issue is that sneasel is frail, but honestly, its typing allows it to take one resisted hit (usually choice locked) to get up an sd, and as long as it doesn't miss triple axel, it can win games on the spot. Ice shard is also very nice priority in the tier. Again, fraility holds it back, but on more offensive teams, that's less of an issue, so you can abuse its talents better.

A- -> A
Everybody wants to rise this mon, so why not one more. I've been using it as my HO lead to start off battles with a dangerous threat that can mostly guarentee rocks. Very powerful mon, not much to say here lol. I prefer the SR 3A set for reliably getting up rocks most games, but I can see why people like scarf and specs lol.

B -> B-
I REALLY tried to make this mon work, but it was really bad. It is way too slow to actually threaten offensive mons, and against said offensive mons, it struggles to get an agility up to outspeed them. Against defensive threats, its better, but not really too far out of the norm. To get the absurd numbers it really wants, it has to rely on hurricane, which is unreliable at best. If it uses psychic, the defensive threats can usually live one hit and cripple it with status or big damage. And for your 'wallbreaker', that isn't really good enough. Plus its stealth rock weak, which means it requires hazard suppport, and honestly, combined with everything else, its just too much support to rank it in B.

Keep A-
I know a lot of people think that this mon is mid, but IMO, I don't get it. Fake out will be a valuable tool in most games in order to get crucial chip damage on opponents, and most teams will have a fast offensive threat that ambipom will be able to take on. Against slower defensive teams, its able to knock off their items and clean up late game with tera normal double hit, which does solid chunks to most mons. Plus it can't be revenge killed by decidueye's shadow sneak, which is very nice imo.

 

[Aurist]

Our last VR update before major shifts in October is in, the changes are as follows:

NEW

Brute Bonnet NEW -> B-

RISES

Meloetta A -> A+
Venusaur A- -> A+

Duraludon A- -> A
Pawmot A- -> A

Tornadus B -> B+

Articuno B- -> B
Cramorant UR -> B

Frosmoth C+ -> B-

Sneasel C -> C+

DROPS

Bellibolt A+ -> A
Scrafty A+ -> A

Staraptor A -> A-

Houndstone A- -> B+
Ambipom A- -> B+

Avalugg-Hisui B -> B-
Froslass B -> B-
Sandaconda B -> B-
Sandslash B -> B-

Ninetales C -> UR

The voting can be found here.

See you on the other side of October

 

[Theycallmephil]

robbed

 

[kyuss]

Felt like dropping my 2 cents on current meta.

S -> A+
The meta has adapted to handling it better. While still dangerous, the shift toward a faster-paced game isn’t doing it any favors. Its threats remain, but it’s not quite as dominant in this more speed-oriented environment.

A -> A+
A blanket check to nearly everything, providing slow pivoting and toxic spreading. It’s more valuable than ever, even for offensive teams. I particularly appreciate Electromorphosis, giving it offensive presence, but Static is just as frustrating for the opponent. Bellibolt has become easier to slot onto teams due to this utility.

A -> S
This mon can do it all: setup sweeper, solid scarfer given the current speed trends, and lethal with Specs. There’s no reason to keep it below S-tier; it’s shaping up to be one of the most versatile threats in the meta.

C -> A
The rise of Glowbro and Bronzong has been fantastic for Uxie. Its Nasty Plot set is indeed nasty, and it retains excellent utility. One of the few solid checks to Meloetta, Uxie deserves a significant bump.

A -> A+
I’ve grown to appreciate Band, Colbur, and Assault Vest sets more. Band has no real safe switch-ins, but the ability to switch moves while still dishing out massive damage with other sets is incredible. Being able to avoid 2HKOs from threats like Florges and Rotom-H is hugely appreciated as well.

B -> A-
Arguably the best Defogger in the tier. Its ability to deal consistent damage without any offensive investment, while spreading defense drops and paralysis, makes it exceptional. It serves as a decent Tauros check if you avoid switching it into Stone Edge. Plus, with a general lack of good Water-types, Cramorant is trying to fill the void left behind.

B+ -> A-
I’ve been a long time Grimmsnarl apologist, and it’s finally time for it to get the recognition it deserves. Huge Attack stat, great utility, fast pivot, setup options, and the ever-useful yellow magic for moments of despair. It absolutely belongs in A- tier to say the least.

A -> A+
With Kilowattrel gone, Salazzle is now the fastest offensive threat (bar helectrode, but way more common). It’s seen a surge in usage, both in HO and Balance, performing consistently and showing tour success. It eats certain team structures for breakfast, and its impact makes it deserving of a tier rise.

C -> A
This guy has no business being as low as C-tier. With Tera mind games, Stealth Rock utility, solid setup options, and great bulk, Rhydon checks a lot of threats while being a strong presence on the field having no safe switchin. We were definitely sleeping on it, and at this point, it’s outperforming fraudsdale (but i'm too lazy to elaborate on drop).

A+ -> A and A -> A+
I think the moment where birb is better than skunk finally came. Few quality Ground immunities remains—mainly the Rotoms, Cramorant, Scyther, and arguably Altaria. Bombirdier stands above the rest with its endless move options (sucker for priority, knock off, stealth rock, taunt, roost, rock tomb, brave bird, parting shot, u-turn.... this guy has it all), superb role compression and has the bonus of being the mandatory Psychic immunity as well. Skuntank is still good, but it feels like a one-trick pony in comparison. With Venusaur’s drop, Bombirdier has gained even more of a niche, making the swap feel appropriate.

edit:
A+ -> S
I don't think i need to elaborate on this one.

 

[Aurist]

Hello PU Pals

The VR council will be voting on the full slate of every ranked Pokemon, as the tier has shifted dramatically.

We're looking in particular for nominations from you on which currently Unranked pokemon are worth ranking in this new meta. These nominations will be voted on in addition to the full slate.

You may also post arguments for tier placement, much as kyuss did above, and these arguments will be considered by the VR council when making their votes. They won't be considered direct nominations for the tier placement as voting on this full slate will already be extensive.

Thanks, bye

 

[Oofhixd]

Hi, i’m quite new to PU and have been learning the meta for the last month or two, I now feel like i have a bit of a grasp around the meta, and whats good and not (also i probably don’t know how to type some of these out properly so i apologise in advance)

A+ -> S-/S(?)
This thing is super versatile with specs, scarf and sub CM sets with a plethora of tera types to choose from. It also has quite a versatile movepool being able to use many moves effectively. This mon is very fast being able to outspeed anything except scarfers so its quite easy to run specs on melo and sweep. Melo often runs tera ghost shadow ball which makes it super strong into decidueye and golurk, not to mention its psychic/psyshock being very strong into toxtricity which is argualbly one of the best mons in the meta right now.

C -> UR
I have no idea why this thing is still ranked, it has barely any usage and almost zero use case. This thing isn't justifiable onto any slot and 80% of the time you’ll be fighting a 5v6. If anyone has found a use-case for this, then please respond with some replays showing what this thing actually does 8n this meta because i genuinely have no idea

A/A -> B+/A-
Really hot take, but i thing these two mons are starting to drop off a lot. Dont get me wrong, wetbull being banned helped k9 to some degree, but it wasnt much. I really think these two are outclassed by blazebull and salazzle which fill both of there roles quite well respectively. k9 has lots some team comp synergy with wetbull being banned and blazebull rising up. For rotom-h, rotom-m is constantly on the rise filling similar roles as offensive special attacking pivots and not to mention salazzle often just being straight up better than these two.

A- -> A
Again another hot take, but in the recent weeks i feel like goodra has become more versatile with just standard bulky sets but it also has access to acid armor bpress which is better than people are giving it credit for as it can dish out huge damage if it gets set up enough, the only drawback being immunities and resistances to bpress, of which, decid seems to be falling off a bit due to more ways everyone has learnt to deal with it. Goodra also has a nice place on spikestack teams with access to dtail, whilst also being very fat. Overall, i think this thing is better than people have been giving it credit for and in my opinion, definitely the best mon in A-.

C/C -> B(B+?)/C+(or B-)
Overall, i think spikestack in general has risen up as a good strategy recently. Especially with mudsdale falling off quite a bit, these two mons have shown to be definitely capable of more than just C rank. Rhydon especially has great bulk due to eviolite, and is a great rocks setter, which also has a plethora of attacking moves being able to dish out massive damage, especially with reckless. Primeape is also a great eviolite user being able to tank hits quite easily and retaliate with a tera ghost 100/150 bp rage fist. My main issue with primeape is that it isnt super versatile and a complete resource hog. Other than that, i think its a pretty decent mon.

Agree with
A+ -> A and A -> A+ - bird is just great rn and skunk is just falling off a little

A -> A+ - insane speed, could honestly see S-

A -> S - dont need to elaborate

C -> A - great into melo, very versatile

B -> B- - this mon is seriously super difficult to work with sadly

Neutral on

S -> A+ - i think A+ is slightly too low, would definitely have it in S-

Disagree with
Actually, nothing i agree with most things



Alr, thats all for my post, tysm all for reading and please lmk if you disagree with any of them

Edit: Didn’t realise there was no S-, sorry guys

 

[tom holland]

dacshbun UR -> B-
I think redbull's presence in the tier justifies using the fairy dog now. Dacshbun is able to reliably switch into redbull, and brings with it wish support for the team. It also has Roar to clear setup redbull and others, and body press is a coverage option to be less passive. It seems to fit well on balance and fatter teams that appreciate more consistency in answering redbull. Rises in general has given it more space for a niche, with things like bronzong and gligar rising, they no longer can force dacshbun out consistently or set hazards up in its face. Scream tail gone gives room for more fairy walls, and flamigo and heracross and toxicroak gone allow it to reliably wall basically every fighting type left because they basically have a lower power level than the ones we had or less useful typing.

Tldr, dacshbun is viable