Metagame SV RU Metagame Discussion (Moltres-Galar banned, see post #104)

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Yo this mon stinks. Tyranitar is top 1 splashables right now, competition from Regular slowbro which provides a better check to the former Luke, aswell as better vs Gallade, and checking Armarouge if you feel like taking 85% from an armor cannon. That aside, Slowbro is far superior and drastically outclasses this thing. Losing scald is terrible as it lets Ttar seemlessly check the cm sets that made it dumb last time. Yes, it has coverage for ttar, but slowbro doesnt need to waste a slot for that when it has it to begin with. Overall, not worth the trouble.

God
Yes, I'm including booster energy among the brokens ranking and here's why. First though, I will reiterate that while precedent doesn't exist in official tiers, Godly gift, Camomons and multiple other OMs have banned booster energy, so this take isn't an unreasonable take. For starters, this item specifically absolutely pushes Iron Leaves over the edge, being able to get a free scarf on your sweeper which has clicks that consistent is a fast track to a clean sweep, with options like priority from bisharp and MMQ stifled by Tera. Iron leaves isn't the only abuser though, Slither Wing's Acrobatics set is very goofy and lends itself to cleaning games up fairly easily, and most tera options to stop it are either incredibly telegraphed, like tera ghost ttar and Bisharp, or just don't kill it after a Bulk Up, in the case of Emergency Mimikyus (because play rough sucks use drain punch). And frankly, most tera mons don't pick types that resist flying, so acrobatics is generally, very free.
>Says Iron leaves is busted
>Insists on using regular slowbro over glowbro

I think regular slowbro is better because of the future sight, better stats and water resist, but does regular slowbro resist fairy? Glowbro still has its uses and whichever one I use depends on what the rest of the team looks like. Calm mind is bad and body press is a must on glowbro in order to lure tyranitar but body press isn't just for the tar, it also dark and steels and allows you to run a different move than flamethrower as your second attack. Also, shell side arm is a lowkey good option. Without calm mind you would end up being bait for calm mind fairies, but with shell side arm you still do 50% to max physdef florges with your poison move, it's also relevant if you are the one person in the world who had their sludge bomb blocked by chesnaught's bulletproof.
 

Ampha

"They don’t call me Greed for nothing!"
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>Says Iron leaves is busted
>Insists on using regular slowbro over glowbro
Ill be the one to tell you, but glowbro isnt really a Very reliable check to Iron leaves, and you would be better using something else, both on or out of psychic terrain, booster energy into attack or speed with terrain or not are 2OHKO by a +2 Iron Leaves(which is the most Common situation you are gonna be facing, since no one is crazy enough to set a non tera Leaves in front of It) plus this is still not taking tera into account, which makes situation worse for glowbro If you are not running tera dark foul play

Fairy resist is cool but when you have more reliable mons to do so(steel types!) and kantobro is the better slowbro overall imo

4 SpA Slowbro-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Leaves: 182-216 (56.6 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Slowbro-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Psychic Iron Leaves: 91-108 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Psychic Iron Leaves Psyblade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Galar: 260-308 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Iron Leaves Psyblade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Galar: 195-231 (49.4 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Psychic Iron Leaves Psyblade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Galar in Psychic Terrain: 338-398 (85.7 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Glowbro sucks rn :blobglare:
 

Seed Sower

But it failed!
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Even though HO is all the rage currently, just wanted to share some BO/defense-oriented options I think are worth mentioning:


Jugs is kinda nuts in general as everyone has pointed out, but lately I've preferred it as a strong pivot with Boots instead of a late-game Booster sweeper. Ttar is a big issue for this thing and I hate gambling on Focus Miss, so I prefer to U-turn out to something safer while getting some decent chip damage to boot. It's naturally strong and speedy and punching holes in the opponent's team throughout the battle is v satisfying.


Fat Dragalge with T Spikes and Dragon Tail feels really good rn. Its typing and bulk come in clutch against a lot of relevant meta threats currently (Slither Wing, Pawmot, the Tauroses, Decid, Kilo, Chesnaught). Poison Point can punish spinners and resisted U-turns. Don't sleep on RU's premier seaweed impersonator. I've found that Dragalge and Wo-Chien make a nice defensive core.


I think Wo-Chien is still quite underexplored. Knock Off is so good in a meta where hazard removal is scarce. It has a lot of great utility (Leech Seed, screens, Taunt, Stun Spore... I've even seen a set with Spite to wear down 8PP moves). Tera Ghost and Poison are also quite useful in patching up Wo-Chien's many weaknesses.


I'm also interested to see what people do with Glastrier because I have barely seen it on ladder even though I think it has a lot of good things going for it despite being so hazard-prone. 100/130/110 bulk is no joke when you can flip your shitty defensive typing to something much better. I have been workshopping some wacky Tera Ghost IronPress sets that have been surprisingly effective against Slither Wing and Iron Leaves in particular.

Ban Gyarados btw
 

EviGaro

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Unfortunate doesn't even begin to describe that we don't have a thread for these announcements yet, but Council has started voting on Armarouge, Gyarados, Iron Jugulis, Iron Leaves, Mew and Slither Wing. Expect results on this sometimes tomorrow!

(I might edit this post for my thoughts on them later)
 
My unsolicited opinions on the ban slate:

Ban: :Gyarados:, :Iron leaves:. These two don't really need any explanation. Gyarados just beats everything and will never trade for less than one and a bit pokemon and Leaves is just pure bullshit.

Mixed opinions: :Armarouge:, :Mew:. I would not mind Mew going at all but I get the feeling that it might be less of a problem if two if the biggest HO threats were banned. If waiting and seeing is an option I would endorse that. I have barely seen any armarouges so I just don't feel qualified to comment. However I have a 75% win rate against it and the only time I lost to it was because of a Draco meteor miss, so maybe it's garbage.

DNB: :iron-jugulis:, :slither-wing:. These two I feel are positive forces in the tier. Slither Wing is strong, but ultimately it's fair and honest. It has a few viable sets it can run and most of them help keep broken stuff in check like banded first impressions for revenge killing speed boosting sweepers or tanky pivot sets being solid glue spreads status and provides pivot support. Jugulis is kind of overwhelming and it can just muscle past the pokemon that would claim to check it, but I feel like it still has good vibes. Booster energy is unbeatable in the late game and I agree it's a bit unhealthy, but I find boots and choice sets help more than booster energy hurts. Like slither wing I find it being a kind of glue mon due to its really useful typing, having taunt+knock+U-turn and strong stats. Jugulis and Noivern have just been really welcome upgrades over our old fast fliers of kilowattrel and Tornadus because of their better stats.

Some other notes I have: Ban :toxtricity: Toxtricity and free :lycanroc-dusk: Lycanroc. Toxtricity is still way too strong and can just win the game on the spot if you guess its set wrong and Lycanroc has never done anything wrong in its life. You people really saw 50 speed boosting sweepers, half of them being flying or fire types, drop from UU and then decided to not unban the pokemon with strong rock type priority?
 
My unsolicited opinions on the ban slate:

Ban: :Gyarados:, :Iron leaves:. These two don't really need any explanation. Gyarados just beats everything and will never trade for less than one and a bit pokemon and Leaves is just pure bullshit.

Mixed opinions: :Armarouge:, :Mew:. I would not mind Mew going at all but I get the feeling that it might be less of a problem if two if the biggest HO threats were banned. If waiting and seeing is an option I would endorse that. I have barely seen any armarouges so I just don't feel qualified to comment. However I have a 75% win rate against it and the only time I lost to it was because of a Draco meteor miss, so maybe it's garbage.

DNB: :iron-jugulis:, :slither-wing:. These two I feel are positive forces in the tier. Slither Wing is strong, but ultimately it's fair and honest. It has a few viable sets it can run and most of them help keep broken stuff in check like banded first impressions for revenge killing speed boosting sweepers or tanky pivot sets being solid glue spreads status and provides pivot support. Jugulis is kind of overwhelming and it can just muscle past the pokemon that would claim to check it, but I feel like it still has good vibes. Booster energy is unbeatable in the late game and I agree it's a bit unhealthy, but I find boots and choice sets help more than booster energy hurts. Like slither wing I find it being a kind of glue mon due to its really useful typing, having taunt+knock+U-turn and strong stats. Jugulis and Noivern have just been really welcome upgrades over our old fast fliers of kilowattrel and Tornadus because of their better stats.

Some other notes I have: Ban :toxtricity: Toxtricity and free :lycanroc-dusk: Lycanroc. Toxtricity is still way too strong and can just win the game on the spot if you guess its set wrong and Lycanroc has never done anything wrong in its life. You people really saw 50 speed boosting sweepers, half of them being flying or fire types, drop from UU and then decided to not unban the pokemon with strong rock type priority?
I really don't see significant difference between lycanroc dusk and regular lycanroc - mb I'm missing sth. why is dusk banned and not regular? I'm quite confused
 
My opinions on this voting slate:

:gyarados: BAN
Gyarados is far too strong for RU, just have to run Dragon Dance set and destroys everything.

:iron-leaves: BAN
People already stopped playing Iron Leaves because everyone knows it's gonna get banned lmao. We just don't have any checks, it is indeed very weak to priorities, but use Psychic Terrain or Terastallize and problem is solved!

:armarouge: BAN
Most people thought Armarouge would be broken because of setup with psychic terrain (including me), but I feel like the most broken set is Choice Specs, it is just uncheckable at all.

:mew: BAN
Mew can run plenty of overwhelming sets, but Nasty Plot with Draining Kiss is enough to be ban-worthy. It is just sweeping pretty easily and bringing nothing good for the meta

:iron-jugulis: MIXED
I feel pretty unsure about Iron Jugulis. It is very very strong and hard to check, but it was very useful to revenge kill sweepers with an Energy Booster or Choice Scarf set with its impressive speed tier. After banning the broken ones, I think Jugulis will start being too strong, taking their places of THE broken sweeper of the meta, it being already not far from them. I think we should already ban it now, but I would understand a DNB state for now.

:slither-wing: DO NOT BAN
In my opinion, we must keep Slither Wing for now. Although its power is really big, and its ability to sweep games with Bulk Up sets, it can run other sets, as for example pivot with First Impression, that are so useful to stop most sweepers of the meta. It may be broken later after the first wave of bans, but I think it is preventing many other mons to be too strong.


Council targeted the right mons for now, these 4 or 5 bans will help a lot to have a better meta, but I think a second wave of bans will be unavoidable.
 
: BAN

I think Gyarados & Iron Leaves are way too strong thanks to Dragon Dance and Sword Dance + Booster Energy respectively. Arguable some of the best Tera users in the tier rn Gyarados basically has access to DD + Waterfall + Tera Blast + Crunch or Taunt or Substitute justo to deal better with stuff as Alomomola or any decent defensive counterplay, thanks to Intimidate makes easier to set up and its too bulky to get easily revenge killed by priority or a faster scarf, with Iron Leaves happens similar thanks to Tera so you can avoid getting revenge killed by First Impression Slither Wing, good sun/psychic terrain abuser. I think both requires you to run both 1. defensive checks 2. offensive checks (priorities, faster super effective scarf) in order to deal well with them. Probably too effort at both sides (defensively & offensively wise)

Mew is too oppressive, np set & suicide lead, I think is too versatile and requires to you several counterplays and a guessing game.

: MIXED

I'm a bit divisive on this one because I think requires you to run Booster Energy and being weak to Stealth Rock sucks because makes easier to revenge kill, also Booster Energy means no Life Orb or Specs which many offensive threats appreciates to avoid getting HKO then you can get HKO back (like Thundurus-I). There are some decent offensive checks like Tyranitar (which is everywhere), Diancie, bulky Rotom-H, etc.

On the other side against bulky offensive teams in late game is such a big threat but no nasty plot / life orb / specs means you'll miss important HKO unless you're running right Tera vs the opposite team (i.e running Fairy Tera Blast Iron Jugulis vs opposite Noivern, or Water Tera Hydro Pump Iron Jugulis vs opposite Rotom-H built team).

So I'm quite split on this one because I think is more on how crazy good are hazards rn + booster energy which is amazing.

: DO NOT BAN

Armarouge to me seems a bit slow for this current meta but is specially such a big threat specially for balance teams but I don't think is broken for now 1. offensive metagame (general faster threats, priorities). And 2. Tyranitar which is a solid check is everywhere.

Last, Slither Wing is probably one of the best pokemon right now but I don't think is broken for now because flying types are everywhere, Slither Wing is a great revenge killer but at the same time is easy to revenge kill. Actually I think might be problematic in the future when Bulky Up + Flame Charge sets become more popular but for now is fine.
 
Some thoughts about the meta so far:

:slither-wing: :armarouge:
I feel that talking about these 2 is mandatory, seeing how they were the only survivors of the last slate. Slither Wing has felt really nice in general. Teams have become bulkier after the bans, so we are seeing more counterplay vs it such as Slowbro-Galar, Noivern, Typhlosion-Hisui, Diancie to some extent, etc. The only issues I've heard is how strong it hits under sun, and I have yet to see a dominant sun team, so I can't really comment on it. Armarouge honestly I've barely seen. I laddered to the 1670s and I saw maybe two Armarouge that didn't really pull their weight. I still believe this mon is probably better than what it displayed in my ladder games, but I also have not been able to build with it yet, so maybe we'll see it pop off in the upcoming RUWC.

:basculegion: :typhlosion-hisui:
These 2 ghost types have been insanely fun. Basculegion has a bunch of cool sets it can run to catch people off guard, from the hard hitting Choice Band sets, to Choice Specs set that target the main answers of CB, meaning you can get a lot of surprise KOs. Typhlosion-Hisui has felt more consistent and better than Basculegion as a Ghost type. I've said since the beginning of the gen that burn has been one of the better status to use in RU because of how limited progress making feels, and Typhlosion does such a good job with either Infernal Parade or regular Will-o-wisp. Not much can resist Ghost & Fire coverage, and you also have fighting coverage in Focus Blast. The speed holds it back a bit, but it's such a fun mon to use.

:diancie:
Probably my favorite rocker in this meta. I know it can run a bunch of sets like CM + Diamond Press + Draining Kiss, or set up Spikes instead of Stealth Rock. It just checks so much, and it's insanely bulky on top of it. I've used it as my blanket check for half the tier, and it usually ends up doing a lot of breaking while at it.

I have other mons I could talk about but I'd also like to know what people are thinking about the current meta. Some top picks for me are:

:pawmot: :wo-chien: :decidueye-hisui: :rotom-heat: :mimikyu:

And many more, I've also really liked using Forretress and I'm p sure Thundurus is an underrated demon. There's a lot to talk about but I'll keep it short and wait to see if people cover other mons. If not, expect another post coming soon...
 
What are people's thoughts on Gallade in the current meta? I'm jumping into RU for the first time this generation, and I enjoyed using at early on in UU.
 

Triangles

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I am also yet to figure out how to make an Armarouge team or what its best set is. I have a feeling that Specs is probably alright, or like some tera steel flash fire bulky cm shit.
Staraptor is also a mon im yet to crack, its a shame it lost roost.
Tera fairy wo chien is an unkillable monster tho.
 
What up RU? Some of y'all may (but probably don't) remember me as the Bulky DD Flygon Guy from last gen. In any case, I got more than sick of that OU life and decided to pop back down to RU where I remembered the folks being pretty boss and the meta being less chaotic, and I am having so much more fun. Still figuring out the tier -- common sets, threats, and tera types and all that jazz -- but I wanted to share a couple of the sets that have been breathing the joy back into `mons for me now that I'm at least hovering in the ~1300 range:

Brambleghast @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 128 Def / 128 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Curse
- Strength Sap
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes

Brambleghast's biggest problem tends to be that, for all the role compression it provides in the hazard game, it struggles to deal any meaningful damage. Power Whip has too many resists, its only physical Ghost STABs are Shadow Sneak and Phantom Force, and its special attack is abysmal. Enter Curse. Palossand is the only other legal ghost that gets Curse + recovery, and Brambleghast has the massive speed advantage to be able to restore HP before getting sniped from 50% health, with Strength Sap doing double duty on the longevity front against physical attackers. Curse also plays nicely with Hazards, forcing the opponent to choose how they want to take their passive damage.

Grafaiai @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Encore
- Switcheroo
- Parting Shot
- Knock Off/Super Fang

Apparently I'm just enjoying passive damage in this meta, because Prankster Switcheroo + Black Sludge makes me smile every time. Swap your black sludge for lefties or boots and lololol all the way to the bank. Works extra nice with Encore to punish setup `mons or with a Parting Shot into TTar. PhysDef investment makes it an okay Slither Wing switch-in, letting it comfortably eat First Impression and Encore them into uselessness. Super Fang has the best synergy with Switcheroo while Knock Off provides more support throughout the match and can actually kill things if the need arises. Tera Dark to block opposing Prankster Shenanigans and boost knock power in the rare case you need either of those things.

Slither Wing @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 Def / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Flame Charge
- Leech Life
- Low Kick

Setup Sweeper Slither Wing has been clutch for me. 232 Spe outpaces everything up to Weavile/Kilowattrel at +1. Tera Fire removes all of your standard weaknesses, makes you immune to burns, and super charges Flame Charge (since clicking Tera boosts its BP to 60 on top of the added STAB). Low Kick hits most of the things it needs to hard enough without sacrificing your survivability. Leech Life is sufficient recovery after a BU or two. Nothing exciting here so far. The silly twist I've been running is Clear Amulet to protect all of the accrued boosts and prevent things like Intimidate cycling, Strength Sap, Parting Shot (which gets completely blocked) or random Def drops from ruining your party.

Anyway, excited to keep experimenting and to be back in a tier with some semblance of stability (or as stable as it can get with the massive drops that are gonna be somewhat normal over the next several months). <3 RU.
 
So, after throwing a lot of teams at the wall seeing which ones stick (LOTS of failed rain teams), I finally built something decent and have gotten a better grip of this new, chaotic tier :wo:. I still wanna tune the team a bit, but I wanted to share a specific mon that has been the biggest surprise from the shift:

1692046832773.png

Decidueye-Hisui @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Scrappy
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 196 HP / 216 Def / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn/Knock Off
- Triple Arrows

Physdef H-Decidueye has been an AMAZING glue mon, being deceptively bulky while only needing one move to apply pressure on bulkier teams. Triple Arrows is the ultimate stallbreak/fat disrupter move, almost guaranteeing a switch due to one of its secondary effects, and thanks to Scrappy you don't need any other move for damage. The choice between knock and u turn depends on the team, though you could also drop defog if you have that part covered. The speed investment allows it to outspeed base 80's uninvested (mainly altaria so it can U-turn out or flinch with triple arrows) while the rest goes in bulk to maximize survibability.

While this meta doesn't have much time left with the DLC in september, it has been pretty fun overall outside some somewhat busted mons/playstyles (I still think sun is a bit to constrictive atm).

Also, the fact that ttar feels balanced and even a good addition to the tier will never stop being funny XD
 
One more silly set that's worked out pretty well so far:

Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Earth Power
- Iron Defense

Enam-T at home is real, y'all, powered by the sheer stupidity that is Tera Fairy Draining Kiss, which buys you time to get some extra CM boosts and/or to break through bulky resists. You can afford to be aggressive with boosting up because once you get to +2/+2/+2 with Tera Fairy, Draining Kiss provides enough recovery to outpace the damage from:

Gyro Ball from 252HP/252+SpD Bronzong
Seismic Toss from Blissey/Chansey
Sludge Bomb from Salazzle/Dragalge
Iron Head from Bisharp
Specs Armarogue Armor Cannon
Overheat from Heatom
Gunk Shot from Grafaiai
Meteor Mash from LO Lucario (after an ID, technically you outpace the damage with just Tera Fairy)
+1 Orthworm Iron Tail

and plenty of other things I'm not gonna take the time to calc.

If you're feeling extra spicy, you could consider running LO, which comes *this close* to making up for the recoil with the extra damage/recovery, but having that extra breathing room on setup turns can make a big difference.

Likes being paired with Heatom to pivot around and eat Steel/Grass/Ground attacks pre-tera. I also quite like the combo with Alomomola and/or Wo Chien to provide extra recovery via Leech Seed/Wish and to eat Water-type attacks.

A few replays this time:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1924163780
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1924167141-q587962ap2nacqjxuy8mw2dmy23qbikpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1924097445-24muy1xufbelu0mcjv7ut7c2lokrtqnpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1923677340-deb53n1wwylvli8vux6raukq8jo2fewpw (lost this one to flinch hax, but you can see how it would have played out otherwise)
 
While this meta doesn't have much time left with the DLC in september, it has been pretty fun overall outside some somewhat busted mons/playstyles (I still think sun is a bit to constrictive atm).
Be aware that this meta gonna stay similar until December bc lower tier doenst get a ton of mon until 2 months into DLC territory
 
Why I'm not seeing comments about:

1692585149626.png


I won't dwell on the obvious, but the options for how to use this thing are huge.

I've faced this thing with defog, as a fat attacker, as a defensive support, with Choice Band added to its wide movepool, I've even seen scarf, even with its low speed.


A very versatile pokemon that hasn't gotten.
 
Be aware that this meta gonna stay similar until December bc lower tier doenst get a ton of mon until 2 months into DLC territory
If they do the staggered drops like with the Bank release, then we'll get some mons in october at minimun :) if not, then yeah, we'll have to wait until december ;-,

Why I'm not seeing comments about:

View attachment 544717

I won't dwell on the obvious, but the options for how to use this thing are huge.

I've faced this thing with defog, as a fat attacker, as a defensive support, with Choice Band added to its wide movepool, I've even seen scarf, even with its low speed.


A very versatile pokemon that hasn't gotten.
I literally made a post a couple of days ago here praising that fella XD and it is indeed a very versatile mon, only held back by its speed tier. I also wanna give some credit to its Alolan counterpart:

1692587830440.png

Decidueye (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Long Reach
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- U-turn
- Leaf Storm
- Roost

This mon is one of the only ghost types in the tier that have an ACTUAL physical STAB move, with some utility built in as well. Mixed decidueye abuses some of the most common pivots in the tier with its STAB combination, surprising would be checks like mudsdale by hitting them on their weaker defensive stat. You don't really need special attack investment to it, the high base power of leaf storm + LO is enough power. The speed tier is to creep on uninvested base 90s (mainly brambleghast, since most are running full defensive spreads in my experience).

Both owls are really fun to use atm, though I hope the Alolan version can get poltergeist with the dlc (honestly, all the physical ghost attackers need some f*cking help. Like, when your strongest STAB option is Tera Blast, you KNOW you have an issue ;-;)
 
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